How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

That's the same problem i have with jump...annoying that the main/basic jump isn't as 'flexible' to use as the other two x.X Been caught out a couple of times in A1S because of it and also means i lose some time if i get the side based 4th rather than behind...Need to try to be better though i suppose lol

So how are you guys optimizing A2S dps? My group got to enrage last night 12% left on the Gob Widow. I cant parse myself because I play on ps4. I think for sure there is room for improvement on the Correct GK usage. Does anyone do AoE? (how great would it be if Belt, hands, or feet were to drop for me lol )

When it comes to gear I lucked out I have all right side Accessories for A1S. Then I have my ilvl 200 spear and Body. I will have enough to buy pants but I am not 100% sure. I still use Ilvl 180 ring and Hands because a lack of skill speed.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

I noticed the same thing with content filters classifying Ariyala as "Adult/Mature". Luckily I control the content filtering so it's not an issue for me, but I will say that the solver on Ariyala is completely trash now at least for monk since 3.0 when changing the weights. I've had to hand calculate a lot of things since the sets Ariyala was giving me were completely wrong when you do the math. I haven't updated the old spreadsheet I stole from Dervy and modified for monk gear.

Anyway, that's your best bet. Use a spreadsheet as it is more accurate and more flexible. I'd see if Dervy has a new one he's willing to share with you guys or you can make your own.

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Thanks, Ricdeau. I don't use the site for the solver, though, just comparing gear sets and planning my upgrade path. I know xivdb has the wardrobe feature but it doesn't work as well as ariyala. Shucks

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Originally Posted by Arson_king

So how are you guys optimizing A2S dps? My group got to enrage last night 12% left on the Gob Widow. I cant parse myself because I play on ps4. I think for sure there is room for improvement on the Correct GK usage. Does anyone do AoE? (how great would it be if Belt, hands, or feet were to drop for me lol )

When it comes to gear I lucked out I have all right side Accessories for A1S. Then I have my ilvl 200 spear and Body. I will have enough to buy pants but I am not 100% sure. I still use Ilvl 180 ring and Hands because a lack of skill speed.

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That's really nice, I got ring last night for my first a1s drop, I don't really like what it did to my skill speed tho >.<

I switched to walker from last week, but from the exp I had before there really isn't a way to sustain any AoE. I just focused on burning down ST while smn and sch baned and brd did his thing. One thing I've been playing around with for aoe is skipping phleb to do an extra GK when mobs hp is getting low, you can get away with 18-19 sec instead of waiting for 22-23.

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

L1 and up or down to select bomb from enemy list. I'm on PS4 and I've doing well with it. The 8th phase sucks cause there are more mobs so bomb won't show up on enmity list. I tell group to stack all together on a spot to minimize drops in the crowd. Worse comes to worse whm fluid aura can knock it out during that phase.

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This is an older post about using the walker on ps4.. my solution was to disable target filtering for everything but enemies. I still use the L1 cycling but disabling everything really helped for just scrolling left-right (which is what I'm used to). Note that I left the option to interact with objects (the walker in this case) under my "when weapon is drawn". So sheathed selects only enemies, drawn selects enemies + interactive objects. Working pretty good. And another tip for anyone else, disable L1 auto-run.. It's pretty lame when you're moving away from the bomb, trying to cycle enemies, only to have your walker turn around and start walking back towards the bomb because auto-run was on .____.

Currently trying to optimise my dps in a3s..just wondering how you guys deal with adds in tornado phase, idc4 combo vs ttt4 combo?

TTT4 for mini ones

ID -> TTT4 for big ones.

First phase just the standard rotation

In phase 2 make sure to ssd back after the first wash away and elusive after the 2nd one. If you learn the timings you can get all of your positionals even if you have to stack with the party. You can use lsw on cd, ir at the start of the phase, a jump+ps before the first wash away and ls+ft when you get back with ssd and they'll all be back up. Try and geirskogul both of the hands whenever possible like after the 2nd wash away if youre fast enough with elusive, bait the hands to clap, you should be able to get 2 off during hand of pain with b4b and one more on both before they turn into the tornado.

Tornado phase ttt4 for mini ones and id>ttt4 for big ones. If youre lucky you can get a geir off on 2 of them. Just follow the the rule of always be attacking.

Still trying to figure out optimal dps tricks for the final phase but just do your standard rotation and you should be good, just be careful with b4b so you dont get rekt by mechanics

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Originally Posted by Dervy

TTT4 for mini ones
ID -> TTT4 for big ones.

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Is ID really worth it? You are losing your BoTD uptime, a potential 4th, downtime from not having adds to hit or tethers means losing BoTD/possible mutihit GK's is pretty high.

Not really. You're never using CT or Phlebotomize and there are many times where you will be using HT, clipping it by 6s. Because of this, you're never going to be in a situation where you'll lose BoTD as long as you stick to using Geirskogul when A) You're above 21s B) your next combo is going to be a TTT4 and not an ID. You only need 10s from no GCDs (2.4*4 = 9.6), to get BotD back up. I've not lost BoTD so far during that phase.

There's only a total of 7 Pistons and ideally, 3 of them are generally yours. So there's only 3 times where you'll be doing ID-TTT4. Other then that, you're TTT4 100% of the way.

The amount of GKs you can use are severely butchered and are heavily reliant on the amount of Pistons or Gears your on (more pistons = more ID, thus less GKs), but ID -> TTT4 is definitely quicker to solo Pistons, than TTT4 spam.

Then, you can run into situations where TTT4 is better - Assume the tank or another player is also on your piston, and will die in 3 GCDs, then TTT4 will be best, as you can use "4th" on a Gear.

It's a tricky one this phase.

So Dervy, basically you're saying that our short-timeframe burst combo is HT > ID > TTT4 ? And reapplying HT whenever necessary, of course.

And the shortest combo would be HT > TTT4?

is 4th combo always a dps increase or only if you hit the positional?
if geirskogul didnt exist, is it still a dps increase?

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

is 4th combo always a dps increase or only if you hit the positional?
if geirskogul didnt exist, is it still a dps increase?

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They're easily the 2nd highest potency if you hit the positionals right after Full Thrust.

I'd take that anytime. Just don't miss on the positionals EVERY SINGLE TIME.

A simple equation would be,

HT > ID > Dis > BotD > CT > 4th > Phle > True > Vorpal > Full > 4th = 228 potency over 10 GCDs

Compare it with

HT > ID > Dis > CT > Phle > True > Vorpal > Full = 212.5 potency over 8 GCDs

This is not counting that they're further buffed with BFB and HT, I'm too lazy to do it.

In 12GCDs, TTT4 x3 > TTT x4

150 + 200 + 360 = 710 * 4 = 2840
150 + 200 + 360 + 290 = 1000 * 3 = 3000

12 * 2.4 = 28.8

2840 / 28.8 = 98.61111111111111
3000 / 28.8 = 104.1666666666667

That's hitting all positionals. Hitting only 1/2 of your positionals (we can average this down to 245 Potency per 4th)

150 + 200 + 360 + 245 = 955 * 3 = 2865 / 28.8 = 99.47916666666667.

So hitting 50% of your positionals is only a 0.8 PPS increase over TTT, so yes, keeping BotD up is crucial. But as I said, it's all situational.

In 6 GCDs:

TTT X2 = 150 + 200 + 360 = 1420
TTT4 TT = 150 + 200 + 360 + 290 + 150 + 200 = 1350
ID TTT4 = 180 + 200 + ((150 + 200 + 360 + 290)*1.1) = 1480

So if your Target is alive for 6GCDs, then ID TTT4 is the quickest way, hands down, to burn it down.

For 7 GCDs:
4*2.4 = 9.6 / 3 = 3.2
IDC TTT4 = 180 + 200 + ((250 + 150 + 200 + 360 + 290)*1.1) + (35 * 3.2) = 1867
TTT TTT4 = ((150 + 200 + 360) * 2) +290 = 1710
ID TTT4 T = 180 + 200 + ((150+200+360+290 + 150)*1.1) = 1645

So in 7 GCDs, IDC TTT4 is best.

But, none of this really, takes into consideration BOTD uptime nor Geirskogul. IDC TTT4 is risky and limits a lot of Geirskogul use.

Do you guys even bother trying to hit positionals in expert on small mobs in a pack? I can't even see their rings because the radius is less than half of my character size for some of them. Neverreap is the most annoying to hit positionals, with like 20 mobs and water pillars and tornados its just ughhh. I just f***-it on fodder and hit positionals on boss because strafing around and trying to see the ring in a pack of 9 mobs when the ring is half the size of my character, its just frustrating. With the potency increase on failed positional 4th's, i care even less on big pulls, because holding your proc and trying to find the seeet spot can be a dps loss than if you just keep the gcd going. Hopefully soon we will outgear neverreap and we can just holy/doom spike packs down in seconds like Satasha HM at i130.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

snippity snap

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I usually do try to keep positionals going for Expert small mob packs. A good tip is to turn off other player's effects and angle the camera really high so you are looking almost straight down on small packs. It helps. I just don't stress too much about holding positionals. Also, for Neverreap you can AOE certain packs pretty efficiently, depending on if the other DPS is AOEing. I usually single-target down the moths at the beginning pulls, then go into AOE spam until low on TP, finish off with single target. Bees (+Tree) and Giraffes are single target while the rest can be AOE'd usually.

I suppose, but at that point I feel like it's "taking away" from the game. I always hated reducing or eliminating things for better gameplay but I guess I'll just learn to deal :/

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Originally Posted by Dervy

But, none of this really, takes into consideration BOTD uptime nor Geirskogul. IDC TTT4 is risky and limits a lot of Geirskogul use.

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Wouldn't IDC4 TTT be the exact same potency, though, with less risk, assuming you know it'll last that seventh gcd?


Also, I had another question. I just was taking a second glance at the B4B part of the OP and was curious. Popping B4B immediately after Chaos Thrust (or the following 4th hit, usually) causes it to miss the next Chaos Thrust, doesn't it? Is that really better than holding it to make sure it catches CT? I see the numbers there, and I don't doubt them, it's just blowing my mind right now is all. Intuitively, it feels like I'd wanna hit CT under B4B every time. Is this just a symptom of the slightly reduced potency on CT due to clipping it in the new rotation? Just curious if there's any like... non-math way of explaining why it's actually a pps loss to hold that B4B.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I suppose, but at that point I feel like it's "taking away" from the game. I always hated reducing or eliminating things for better gameplay but I guess I'll just learn to deal :/

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I'd try to just move the camera really vertical then first to see if that helps :) I personally am using a potato as a computer so I had to turn off other player effects because I like actually being able to play the game as a video game and not a really fancy low framerate flip book XD

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Wouldn't IDC4 TTT be the exact same potency, though, with less risk, assuming you know it'll last that seventh gcd?

Also, I had another question. I just was taking a second glance at the B4B part of the OP and was curious. Popping B4B immediately after Chaos Thrust (or the following 4th hit, usually) causes it to miss the next Chaos Thrust, doesn't it? Is that really better than holding it to make sure it catches CT? I see the numbers there, and I don't doubt them, it's just blowing my mind right now is all. Intuitively, it feels like I'd wanna hit CT under B4B every time. Is this just a symptom of the slightly reduced potency on CT due to clipping it in the new rotation? Just curious if there's any like... non-math way of explaining why it's actually a pps loss to hold that B4B.

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Yup, same potency. You end up in the same situation though, as your skills are ordered as: TTT -> HT -> IDC4, if that makes sense. You need to refresh HT. It's still going to be a sequence of "3", then "4" when you're switching between adds which last 7 GCDs. It still carries the same risk. But yeah, IDC4 TTT is just as good as IDC TTT4.

And yeah, you're right. It's the reason why holding BFB to be used on the "4th" after CT is the lowest PPS. But holding it 1 GCD in Infinite-Duration in a vacuum still ends up being less Potency. Usually, due to latency and other things, a BFB usually comes up, available on that "4th" skill, but activating it will clip your GCD. In which case, I usually hold it for the Phlebotomize.

hows drg numbers after mnk buffs?
poor NINs tho...

MNK > DRG > NIN.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

MNK > DRG > NIN.

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That's fair I suppose, since utility wise the order is the opposite.

How far below MNK are we? I guess it also makes sense, given DRG has a bit higher survivability and mobility

Uhmm like 0.015% difference between the two jobs on a Dummy.

At i195:

My Static Monk: 1330
My Dragoon: 1310

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Uhmm like 0.015% difference between the two jobs on a Dummy.

At i195:

My Static Monk: 1330
My Dragoon: 1310

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Isn't there anything that we can do as drg's?

My static monk was doing better than me in fights (with mechanics to keep up his dps) in comparison to me. I only outdps him on the dummy.

But I mean, it's kinda annoying me and demotivating me when I see my own dps, it's not that I'm the worst at drg but also not #1 :c

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

Isn't there anything that we can do as drg's?

My static monk was doing better than me in fights (with mechanics to keep up his dps) in comparison to me. I only outdps him on the dummy.

But I mean, it's kinda annoying me and demotivating me when I see my own dps, it's not that I'm the worst at drg but also not #1 :c

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Why would that bother you? You bring Litany and Disembowel to the table on top of high DPS, the MNK is bringing ... well, nothing extra DPS wise besides his raw numbers.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Why would that bother you? You bring Litany and Disembowel to the table on top of high DPS, the MNK is bringing ... well, nothing extra DPS wise besides his raw numbers.

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I think it's my negative side then lol, I get competitive very easily. And I want to play my job as perfect as I can. And I always try to do that (thanks to all the help from Dervy's vids and the info here/on reddit)

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

Isn't there anything that we can do as drg's?

My static monk was doing better than me in fights (with mechanics to keep up his dps) in comparison to me. I only outdps him on the dummy.

But I mean, it's kinda annoying me and demotivating me when I see my own dps, it's not that I'm the worst at drg but also not #1 :c

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MNKs used to be top DPS and had good raid utility while DRG did 2nd?/3rd? melee DPS and basically no raid utility (-piercing debuff for the much-weaker-at-the-time BRD). In Heavensward's raid environment, they had second-best DPS and barely ANY raid utility while DRGs had top DPS and probably best offensive raid utility. Now MNK is top DPS with little utility and DRG is a very close second and still have awesome raid utility. This seems fair enough to me.

Think of it this way: Your Battle Litany and Piercing Debuff probably more than makes up the direct DPS difference between you and the MNK. It's a team game!

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

I think it's my negative side then lol, I get competitive very easily. And I want to play my job as perfect as I can. And I always try to do that (thanks to all the help from Dervy's vids and the info here/on reddit)

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MNK (most likely) has a higher PERSONAL DPS ceiling compared to DRG, so if both players are playing perfectly, the MNK (should) be ahead.

I'm pretty competitive as well, have to try not to drag other people down with me at times hahaha. I'm fine with monks being higher though, they're a good rival to have and together we can put out some outstanding damage. Plus it seems like their class is a little bit more of a headache but I'm not too sure.

My monk has been doing more DPS than myself even before the changes. They were always better for raids. It's just they bring no utility for DPS checks unlike a Ninjas TA and Battle Litany.

Also, monks now being the top dps class (although just slightly above us) takes a bit of the target off our heads.

It's actually kind of impressive how just about every dps is viable from a raiding standpoint, although some classes still have QoL issues, and ninjas probably need a minor tp adjustment. Though it would be cool if goad gave some TP back to the ninja along with the goad target.

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Originally Posted by Neyka

Though it would be cool if goad gave some TP back to the ninja along with the goad target.

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I'm guessing that is going to be the solution eventually, honestly.

gdi. Well guess I'll have to be the vegeta then (he's way cooler than goku anyway lol).

How much do you guys parse in a fight like a1s? (with the new rotation from Dervy)

anyone else absolutely hates the eso gloves?
theres a random huge red spikes on them and it clips EVERYTHING.

i had to glamour it back to asura glove and dye it dark blue (which looks very cool btw)

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Why would that bother you? You bring Litany and Disembowel to the table on top of high DPS, the MNK is bringing ... well, nothing extra DPS wise besides his raw numbers.

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When you're competitive, like most good dps players ( to include every job), we only tend to look at our own generated numbers. The numbers we have direct control over, it's just a little disheartening to know that if played perfectly, your personal numbers won't top someone elses.

Though we understand we "contribute more" on certain classes.

I never count brds dps as a part of mine, because regardless of the piercing debuff, the number he/she gets are what they themselves worked for. That is how i look at my drg to mch/brd relationship when i look at my parser. I'm giving him an opprtunity, but he/she has to put in the work.

Edit: However, im playing drg again because i like what they did with the class HW in comparison to mnk and nin. Someone has to have top personal dps, and if SE thinks it should be mnk, I'll deal with it. (Though, i believe more class synergywould have made them more desireable than just a flat dps increase).

Self numbers don't matter in the grand scheme compared to raid numbers. It was like in ffxi how drg dps was mediocre but just having them in the fight for Angon which reduced the boss's defense by 25% raised everybody's dps substantially more than adding in a stronger raw dps job.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Self numbers don't matter in the grand scheme compared to raid numbers. It was like in ffxi how drg dps was mediocre but just having them in the fight for Angon which reduced the boss's defense by 25% raised everybody's dps substantially more than adding in a stronger raw dps job.

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Which is why, in the future, SE should look more at synergy than raw dps numbers for all the classes (and added jobs down the road).

Though, i think they couldn't add utility this go around because it might upset certain groups that they may not be able to take advantage of new synergy until the next raid tier and gear "resets".

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

anyone else absolutely hates the eso gloves?
theres a random huge red spikes on them and it clips EVERYTHING.

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It pretty much forced me to get off my butt and decide on a glamor, which I'd been putting off since HW dropped.

I went with Warwolf Skirt of Maiming while I was at it #makesokenproud

Alright, I've rewatched Dervy's video for the Advanced Dragoon rotation guide many times.

I still can't figure out how Dervy managed to double-weave oGCD without clipping even a 0.1-0.2s into the GCD.

I was able do it once or twice, but I will clip a splitsecond into the GCD. Is it the button mash? Is it the timing of the buttons pressed? Or maybe latency (I doubt this)?
Not feeling very confident about my double-weave. :(

I will try and upload a video, I hope you guys would be willing to help.

It sounds like latency to me. If you have perfect oGCD queuing and pair up the right skills, yet it clips into the GCD, this is probably the case.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

It sounds like latency to me. If you have perfect oGCD queuing and pair up the right skills, yet it clips into the GCD, this is probably the case.

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I'm playing on a constant (Stable, I think) 260-270ms latency, Hirose, is it the problem?

I don't exactly know how skills input are being transmitted so I'm not sure. I can do a double-weave but only on the BL+BFB after the heavy thrust, if I try to double-weave IR+BotD after Impulse drive, it clips into Disembowel for like 0.2s.