What cause players to quit Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn

Simply: for anyone who has been playing for a decent length of time... there is nothing to do.

Yes, I know I COULD level every single job to 60... but the 50->60 grind is mind numbing. And I say this as someone who pre-HW had every single thing to 50.

All I log on for now is to do my roulettes and BT to slowly chip away at relic. It's habit, and I catch up with FC people, but it's not overly fun.

So yeah...rephrase to there is nothing FUN to do.

(and I have always been a big defender of this game, and I have no intention of letting my subscription drop, it's comfy to log in for a little even if I have nothing to do. But... post-HW, content has been lacking.)

There is one thing I really don't like in this game and it's the not existing customization. Every class has his set in stone rotation (or priorities for Bards/Mech). Even the things which could have the possibility to be customizable have no space for that and have just one way to go like cross class skills or the 30 points of stats you can spend.
Still not a reason to quit this game for me :p

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Content NEEDS a bigger lifespan and there also needs to be more raids with different gear stats and obviously need to make them unique somewhat, like you have with the grand company set's where you use some certain gear you get bonus stats.

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This is a good point - more ways to obtain gear, in particular.

Over time, Yoshi-P's thinking has shown to be very limited and one-dimensional in its scope. He seems satisfied to have only 2 or 3 ways of obtaining gear, with each approach targeting very specific groups of people (casual players, "mid-core", and hardcore/raiders). He seems to be stuck on thinking that gear should either come specifically from either exceptionally challenging content, or long monotonous grinds involving old content that many people had already run into the ground in the past for other reasons (because his answer to those things was also "more grind!") - with nothing in-between, and no variation on either theme.

And that's it. Grinding the same 2 or 3 pieces of content. That's all he seems able to come up with, or it's all he's interested in supporting.

Now, others are going to say "What else is he supposed to do? What else is there he can do? It's a MMO!". Well, let me point you to a certain other MMO, called FFXI.. and the myriad of content, and associated rewards introduced in just one Expansion.. "Treasures of Aht Urghan".


1) Assault.
Here's a wiki page on Assault. Read it over. And I mean, actually read it over. Don't just gloss over it and then dismiss it because you didn't bother to actually see how much it actually entails. Assault entails many different missions, spread across several Ranks, and encompassing a total of 50 different maps, each tailored for a specific mission/goal. Not in the mood to do "Lebros Caverns Excavations" tonight? No problem, there are 9 other possible missions you can choose from in just that one category, out of 5 total categories. That's called having variety and providing choice, even within the context of a single event.

Assault offered several sets of gear.. And this is in addition to the gear available from other activities in the game, of which there were several... NMs/HNMs, Burning Circles, Coffers, Quests, Crafting, Dynamis, Conquest Points, and so on and so on.

2) Nyzul Isle Investigation
This one is a variation on Assault. Instead of individual maps with a single objective, Nyzul Isle Investigation is based around a 100-floor dungeon, where each floor, its goal, and its enemies, are generated randomly from a pool of possible combinations. This also came with its own set of challenges, and its own gear. Here's a page on Nyzul Isle. Look how much is involved in just that one activity.

3) Salvage
Salvage was yet another entire system introduced in Aht Urghan, with its own specific challenges, rules, rewards, etc. Here's a wiki page on Salvage.

4) Einherjar
Yet another fun system, with its own challenges, rules and rewards, also introduced in the Treasures expansion. Wiki page here.

5) Besieged
On top of this, Aht Urghan also brought Besieged which, while very laggy - but still playable - is/was an awful lot of fun. It has a very interesting system built around it. For example, key NPCs - like the Chocobo handler, Warp NPC, etc. - could be taken hostage, and players would have to to get them back before they could be used again. There were different beast tribes that could attack, and they could vary in overall difficulty. Each beastman tribe would entail different enemy types, including normal mobs, FATE-level enemies and, depending on the difficulty level of the encounter, would include a raid-level boss to defeat. It was crazy and chaotic, but it was a lot of fun.

Here's a page on Besieged. Besieged, (along with other content, if you had a sigil active) also rewards Imperial Standing, which acts as a currency to buy gear and other goods (similar to the GCs). So that's yet another way in which players could acquire useful gear.

There you go. 5 completely different, but equally involved and uniquely rewarding game systems, all included in a single expansion. That is, of course, in addition to the main storyline quest, numerous battles, cut-scenes, etc. etc. Each system is on a level comparable to Diadem - only better implemented and more fleshed out.

That's the level of content typical of an expansion, or even intermediate updates, in FFXI. XIV doesn't even come close to what SE delivered in XI in terms of quantity, variety, longevity or - arguably - quality of content.

Any one of those systems could have kept you engaged and challenged at least as long as XIV's most involved content, and typically much longer before it started to feel repetitive. And when it did, you had myriad other things to do instead. What Yoshi-P considers a "finished and complete system" in FFXIV would be just the foundation of a much larger and diverse system in FFXI.

People love to bash FFXI and regurgitate all the standard canned "complaints" that are so stock that someone can recite them without having stepped foot in Vana'diel.

The fact is - and I do mean Fact - FFXI offered far more in terms of content (with variations on that content), progression and gear to its players in a single expansion (not even including what had been added before that) than Yoshi-P has even attempted - or would even consider (per his own say-so, on multiple occasions now) with FFXIV since its re-launch.

Say what you want about Tanaka and his screw-ups with FFXIV 1.0 - he absolutely blew it there. That does not erase the fact that, under his direction, FFXI provided *tons* of new and varied content to players, with new, interesting, good gear that actually remained relevant for far longer than a patch cycle. He understood how to create content with depth, with challenges and rewards that would keep players engaged for months, even years, without rehashing the same ideas over and over. He didn't rely on the Yoshi-P method of "grind on old content, or run the same one or two raid dungeons ad nauseum for the next several months while I decide what old content I want you to grind on in the next update".

At first, I was firmly on board with the whole "Yoshi-P > Tanaka" mentality that pervaded the XIV community. As time goes on, and I see how little Yoshi-P is doing, or is even willing to do, to expand and evolve XIV into something other than "more of the same", my feelings on that are growing to be quite the opposite. I think, if given another chance - even if he was required to "tone it down" and make it more "mainstream" - Tanaka could have delivered us a much more interesting game than Yoshi-P has. Historically, I think there's more to support that probability than not. After all, he made a lot of poor choices with 1.0, but here's the thing... at least he was willing to try new and different ideas, and not play everything safe. That alone increases the likelihood of him making XIV a more interesting and varied game than it's turned out to be; and I don't think he'd have relied so heavily on fan service and nostalgia to make it happen.

And before you scoff... Remember something. Tanaka was the person behind FFXI - SE's most profitable title for a long time, and possibly still. He's proven he can run a successful MMORPG, over many years. Not to mention, all the other games he's been involved with. I would bet real money that many people who bash him were, and still are, fans of his previous works. The guy's not a know-nothing wanna-be. His career experience speaks for itself, and you can't dismiss that, not even after 1.0's development. Just as Yoshi-P and SE learned from the mistakes of 1.0, under similar circumstances, so too could Tanaka have learned from his own.

This game could be so much more than it is. It's being held back by the insecurities, stubbornness and shortsightedness of one person.

All my opinion of course, but I think I stand on some pretty solid ground with it.

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Originally Posted by Galibier

But again you are not making MMORPGs.

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I am listing them tho.

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Warframe is basically an FPS with Parkour

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Warframe is an MMORPG that chooses to use third-person shooter combat. More on definitions later.

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Vindictus is an Action MMO, that has a lot of limitations from the RPG angle

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Where? It's an MMORPG with action combat. What part of the RPG is lacking? In many ways it beats XIV in that regard. In XIV your job and playstyle is not really your own. Skills all have 1 rank (or occasionally an extra 1 or 2 from traits), which is simply given to you in its completed state at a certain level. Everyone in a job ends up with the exact same kit, and playstyles converge towards the optimal rotation because of it. Vindictus has you earn your skills and choose to rank each one up individually using the AP you earn separately from your level. 2 players on the same character class could have vastly different skillsets, even when using the same weapon type (which also changes the kit entirely to a new set of available skills).

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Again, I get the issues. You think vertical progression is not the best model and you want something that is more action/console oriented.

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I point back to my example again. Vertical progression, distilled to its purest form with nothing else in the way is how you get a clicker game. Cookie Clicker is literally just vertical progression with nothing else. It's satisfying for a little while, but that's also because you can idle it and do other things while you just check back and see all the progression "you" have made.

Vertical progression is good, it's why clickers exist to scratch that itch. I'm just saying it needs something more substantial behind it to do in order to create an engaging experience.

Oh, and one caveat that XIV seems to go a bit awry on. Vertical progression falls apart if things obsolesce too quickly. Players will lack the motivation to put in 100 hours for a thing they know is going to be nerfed and/or replaced with something better 2 patches down the road. other players may ignore the entire endgame, knowing the next expansion will just increase the level cap and 5 levels later your default NPC gear surpasses even the best of the previous endgame.

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Thing is, again, you are talking about different genres of video game.

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I somewhat am and am not simultaneously. I'm still talking MMORPG, but that's not a defining genre. It can be combined with literally any other genre to make something interesting. MMORPG Racing? Tales Runner. MMORPG Golf? PangYa. MMORPG Clicker game? Remember the last Steam summer sale? You get the point. MMORPG is more of a tag or modifier, like rogue-lite, that can be used with any other genre.

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You are, in essence asking FFXIV to be a different kind of game.

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No I'm not. The game is set in its design. I'm just telling you its limitations as it stands right now.

The horrible way people treat each other in statics for endgame content made me quit, because I just couldn't bear it anymore how people failed but still did nothing but shout at each other and pushing the blame on them.
But I came back and just abandoned statics because the game seperate from that was still fun^^

The initial first Atma stage of the old relic made me quit again when after 3 weeks of constant FATE spamming for hours upon hours per day I still didn't have even one single Atma.
But I came back and even went through the whole Relic quest, because the world, the lore, the story and the people I know were all too good to be abandoned.

Maybe I'm a special case, but I'm happier without 5000 new and exiting ways to modify my build/skills/whatever, and I like that I don't have to learn 50 new instances every 2 months.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Once you're leveled in Grand Company and level 50 you can get a room in the FC estate you can decorate and call your own. It does cost 300k so try not to waste gil as you level buying lots of stuff. New housing is coming but the specifics and costs of the apartment style housing isn't really known at this time.

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Thinking about that 'new housing', I think it's essentially a specialized version of a FC house with personal Chambers. A FC can gave 512 members, each member can have a personal chamber accessed through the FC house, and has access to the chocobo stable & garden - for example.

The new housing will allow up to 512 apartments in each 'mansion', and there will be communal Chocobo stables, plus they are working on personal gardening items for use in personal chambers. Basically this 'new' housing is more or less like belonging to an un-named FC and buying a Personal Chamber in the 'FC' house. The personal Chambers in these new Mansions may be bigger than the ones in our existing FC houses, or may not. Perhaps you can pay more for a larger room? Either way, the new housing is functionally equivalent to being a member of a sleeper FC.

It's actually a smart re-use of an existing system that can be tweaked to function as required without implementing an entirely new housing system in parallel to the existing one. It should also allow them to create at least 1 apartment complex or 'mansion' per ward since you only need modify the ward to include the entrance to the apartment complex.

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Originally Posted by Callback

I am listing them though /snip

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Warframe is an Co-Op not an MMORPG. You pick missions you want, you can solo or wait for a squad, then Parkour over everything and grind for mats. The back story is part of a lore page, not part of game play, no campaign mode/story and when it launched there wasn't even a lobby.

Vindictus is lacking Character individuality. Here I am Galibier, my character is mine to make, not just in appearance but in name, if I want my own back story etc. In Vindictus you are one of THEIR characters. An MMORPG is not simply that because of a class structure or groups. It also lacks a persistent world which is a key difference. Of late, games that have multiplayer on servers tries to say they are an MMORPG.

An MMORPG, is more than how many people are logged into a server, an MMORPG also has:

1. An ongoing story inside the game
2. A persistent and/or open world not just a lobby from which to launch into instances, even if the instance is group. MASSIVELY does not mean how many people are logged into the lobby, its how many people are engaging the persistent world as you do.
3. The ability to, for lack of a better term, "own" the character.

In essence factors beyond the combat mechanics that make you feel like you are in a living breathing world, where you can be engaged outside of the instanced dungeons.

The two games above share far more with DA:I, AC:U and Mass Effect 3 than an MMORPG

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Originally Posted by Galibier

An MMORPG, is more than how many people are logged into a server, an MMORPG also has:

1. An ongoing story inside the game
2. A persistent and/or open world not just a lobby from which to launch into instances, even if the instance is group. MASSIVELY does not mean how many people are logged into the lobby, its how many people are engaging the persistent world as you do.
3. The ability to, for lack of a better term, "own" the character.

In essence factors beyond the combat mechanics that make you feel like you are in a living breathing world, where you can be engaged outside of the instanced dungeons.

The two games above share far more with DA:I, AC:U and Mass Effect 3 than an MMORPG

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#1: No. Story, while most MMOs have it, is not mandatory. Some thrive off of it being your story. The game provides a world and you make your own adventure. You get to build a story of your character and how they go about their journey through this world. It's an open canvas for you to project upon.

Others make the story more active. The world itself evolves. Events happen for you to actually play through and determine the outcome of major points in history, with permanent consequences that forever reshape the game's world.

Still others bury their story lore, not spelled out to you but rather left around in clues for you to discover on your own. It's a journey of discovery as you learn what this world is and how you fit into it.

#2: Again, no. By this you seem to mean open world combat? That's a definite no. As long as it provides a space for players to interact on a massive scale, it's an MMO. Think of Legend of the Green Dragon, a text adventure MMORPG (might argue it's a MUD but the mechanics in place make it feel more MMORPG). The town is just a big text chat lobby. Towns in other MMOs, including XIV, are also more like big visual lobbies, but that's enough. It's a place for character interaction. Are you going to say Guild Wars isn't an MMORPG because you always instance upon leaving a town?

#3: Every game does this. You complain just because Vindictus has you play as an established character? So does XIV. You are the "Warrior of Light." Every player sees the same story. You are "The one" who stopped [boss] when it threatened [place].

Owning the character is what you Do in the game. It's your customization, it's your playstyle, it's your actions. Again, other games can sometimes differ far MORE in terms of customization both visually and especially in build customization, but even in single player games you still "own" the character. The simple act of playing is you imparting your actions, a part of your will, onto the character.

I would say the 90k errors, no other game does this except this one, after a while it gets on peoples nerves.

People do a long dungeon almost to final boss then 90k and then kicked from the party for offline or pvp when people are almost done with frontline and winning then 90k you get no reward and have to sit out the whole fight again.

People get fed up no other games do this and they decide its time to move on.