#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

Unless one actually can present a valid compromise, all-or-nothing is the only approach.

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These words don't mean anything. What are we supposed to compromise about lol? We don't make the decisions, all we can do is offer feedback. This isn't a back forth between people that can actually change anything themselves. You have just added a literally impossible to achieve condition to make your original silly statement seem like it actually makes sense.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

Even now it's taken just skirting near the idea of tank/dps balancing being looked at and it's all people wanna focus on. Healers have been unhappy for a lot longer than just this week of the media tour. Years in fact! Why else would they all collectively respond so negatively to the prospect of using their kits again like this for another 2 + years!?

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That's the thing. It doesn't take much effort on Google to find many forum/reddit/ect. posts going back years being unhappy at the state of healer. People reacting defensively against healers being upset are acting like this is new just because of media tour when we've been unhappy for a lot longer than that. Media Tour is the straw that broke the camel's back after years of unaddressed balance grievances, not a sudden reaction. It made even me, who generally keeps to herself, decide to come onto the forums and make my thoughts known.

Join me in the #ANTI-FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE, for there is no healer strike in Ba Sing Se!!!

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

They can't make them necessary, DPS with no party healing still exists,

SMN gaining another party heal doesn't matter if you're raiding with a DRG/NIN/RDM/MCH, it's the inherent problem with giving out abilities that are beyond your role, they cannot test you on them.

Personal heals is fine, nobody cares about Manawall, it just makes no sense to keep handing out party heals expecially as a part of their burst so you can't even time it to when you need healing.

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You might be right. My gut feeling though says we will know what is required for 7.0 within a week of early access starting as some will rush through and we will hear about it. There is no way any changes will be made during 7.0. I personally prefer the wait and see before I will agree that nerfs are necessary to the new skills for DPS. If it does turn out to be OP I will be right there with you on the nerfs as I have said.

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Originally Posted by LalaLumi

The part about this that irks me, however, and I'm sure I'm going to start an armageddon with this one, is why in the bloody hell the #1 solution to the problem is to give healers MORE dps spells. Like...excuse me? With respect, I think we are missing the entire point here. Dopamine and serotonin (aka: the happy brain chemicals) are released from healers when they make the blue or green HP bars go up - not from making the red bars go down. I understand the sentiment of wanting to "give healers something to do during downtime", but the entire point is that there shouldn't be that much downtime for healers to begin with. Why am I spending 95% of my playtime doing DPS as a healer?

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We absolutely want more to heal and more engaging healing otherwise we are simply a worse caster, we simply view downtime as inevitable and thus want our downtime tools restored as well. That's why tank sustain has been highlighted repeatedly, they are doing our job for us which is an untenable position. They need to restore actually healing AND add a basic damage rotation or I'm not returning to the role, lacking damage spells is only justifiable if we're at that 95-5 split of healing/damage.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

Even now it's taken just skirting near the idea of tank/dps balancing being looked at and it's all people wanna focus on. Healers have been unhappy for a lot longer than just this week of the media tour. Years in fact! Why else would so many of them collectively respond so negatively to the prospect of using their kits again like this for another 2 + years!?

For what it's worth I think all mits on jobs outside of healers should be limited to use on yourself only. Primarily this is for DPS mits really. That way you can press them, help your healer and not upstage their role and also it's a good indicator of which players are refusing to cooperate and use the mits because -they- will be the ones who died.

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i have no idea i'm pretty content with my healing kit. i'm sorry this all just sound extremely petty and shortsighted, we had two tiers were healers absolutely needed to learn how to heal and all we got was mass desertion from the role. i get this is mostly for casual content but that is brain-dead for literally every job it's not just healer, dungeons have been suffering due to the need to accommodate trusts in them and that, imo, is a much bigger issue than some people not liking how the role plays. i really don't get this, you can just play something else and i'm sure most of this thread wouldn't vibe with stance dancing how it was back in HW, when healers actually had to make hard decisions for -any- content, since, i mean, cleric stance was taken out -due- to player feedback.

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Originally Posted by Mutsukki

i have no idea i'm pretty content with my healing kit. i'm sorry this all just sound extremely petty and shortsighted, we had two tiers were healers absolutely needed to learn how to heal and all we got was mass desertion from the role. i get this is mostly for casual content but that is brain-dead for literally every job it's not just healer, dungeons have been suffering due to the need to accommodate trusts in them and that, imo, is a much bigger issue than some people not liking how the role play. i really don't get this, you can just play something else and i'm sure most of this thread wouldn't vibe with stance dancing how it was back in HW, when healers actually had to make hard decisions for -any- content, since, i mean, cleric stance was taken out -due- to player feedback.

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Abyssos was hard on healers not because of healer requirements. It was hard because of MITIGATION CHECKS. The thing that Healers don't control nearly as much of. Healers can partially mit raidwides, but without support from DPS/Tank CDs, it still would hit way too hard and down people.

And don't even get me started on Johnny WAR over here who just rawdogs the bleed tankbusters with holmgang, dies to dot ticks that equilbrium and bloodwhetting for ONCE cannot save them, and then the healers get blamed for it.

Why would anyone want to put up with that kind of design? You didn't see people drop out of fights because of J-Waves, or Forsaken or Terminal Relativity, stuff that DID require healing/mitigation combos. They dropped because either you prayed that the tanks would press reprisal more than once a fight, or your entire party explodes and they blame YOU because the Fey Illumination and Succor were somehow going to be enough to keep everyone alive.

They never should have taken Virus away from SCH.

Healing in this game at its best was more about being a combat medic that would heal when needed and damage when it was safe to do so. There's a reason that we had access to more than a single nuke and DoT in previous expansions.

In order to make us heal for 90% of the fight, we'd have to have tankbusters and raidwides being tossed out every 5-10s, our oGCDs culled (since they may give us space to toss a Glare and oh-no-we-can't-have-that), and MP costs reduced significantly. Not only is this highly, highly stressful, you leave little to no room for any kind of recovery for lesser skilled players. Other MMOs can get away with mostly healing because they also don't have as much access to AoE heals, those are things to be managed for specific moments of the fight, so you instead spend more time patching people up one by one. We don't have that here, we instead have a glut of them available on the GCD and with oGCDs too. You could nerf them severely, but then you also make heal checks that do exist require reworking and rebalancing.

Simply put, we need a handful of DPS spells for when we don't need to heal, and we will always need moments where healing won't be needed lest people find the role too frustrating. We're just in the opposite spectrum where it's entirely too dull.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Okay, but like, can there be at least one healer that feels like a caster DPS/healer hybrid with actual DPS gameplay?

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That's what SGE was supposed to be. They literally were given a mechanic that heals for dealing damage. Albeit, it's not very impressive in practice, but that ship has already sailed and sank, unfortunately. I'm not opposed to 1 healer being the "DPS healer." In fact, I think that's quite healthy. Look at WAR. WAR is the "Healing Tank". Having a gameplay nuance that sets you apart is healthy, acceptable, and perfectly valid...right up until your niche is literally comprised of ostracizing an entire role which is where we are now.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Abyssos was hard on healers not because of healer requirements. It was hard because of MITIGATION CHECKS. The thing that Healers don't control nearly as much of. Healers can partially mit raidwides, but without support from DPS/Tank CDs, it still would hit way too hard and down people.

And don't even get me started on Johnny WAR over here who just rawdogs the bleed tankbusters with holmgang, dies to dot ticks that equilbrium and bloodwhetting for ONCE cannot save them, and then the healers get blamed for it.

Why would anyone want to put up with that kind of design? You didn't see people drop out of fights because of J-Waves, or Forsaken or Terminal Relativity, stuff that DID require healing/mitigation combos. They dropped because either you prayed that the tanks would press reprisal more than once a fight, or your entire party explodes and they blame YOU because the Fey Illumination and Succor were somehow going to be enough to keep everyone alive.

They never should have taken Virus away from SCH.

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i agree that the overwhelming majority of Abyssos problems were on tanks that did not know their kits, but plenty of bad healers all around too, people that didn't know how to handle tank busters with dots, or the high healing needed in mechs like Dominion where a damage up is applied after each raidwide. it all circles to roles not being properly played by their players, and instead of wanting to learn, it's easier to simply abandon and ask for change.

also i'm gonna be honest J-Waves and the likes is just changing the glare button for medica. i looove these mechanics but it's not like they're amazing fight design either. they -do- need oGCD planning but so does everything else. like, by experience, anything that is a tumult-like is too much for the usual healer, this happened in p10s too and that one doesn't hit as hard