No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Selova

This is a really bad example. DPS players obviously don't build defensively because slotting tenacity on dps would severely gimp the role they function as, The same thing applies to tanks. You building only tenacity and determination is not doing anyone any favors. The only purpose it serves is to slow down every group that has to deal with you as a tank. It's pretty obvious that you don't do content above DF, no one in their sane mind would take a tank that slots ten/det to any EX trial or Savage Raid and for some odd reason wants to intentionally gimp themselves under the guise of "Muh Playstyle". If you honestly enjoy playing like this then go for it, but don't be surprised when you get constantly VTK'd from groups.

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It's really not, and hey I don't wanna get too into it on here but honestly I cannot take you seriously when you say that melding Tenacity "gimps the role I function as", I am a Tank, a Tank's primary goal has always been and will always be to stay alive and take the least damage possible. Tanks and DPS are two completely different roles. Also, don't you think it's a bit ridiculous that you're judging the content I do in this game based on materia I meld. It's just so crazy hearing you say "no one in their sane mind would take a tank that slots ten/det to any EX trial or Savage Raid"
Because all I do is I run countless EX primals and also Savage raids (most notably had over 100 clears for Suzaku, Titania, and Hades all while relevant, and I've taught groups all 3). Actually, to all of my friends and my FC I have the reputation as the "EX primal guy" haha because I run them and teach them so often. A few peeps on Party Finder have even began to recognize my name and rejoice when I join parties. It feels great.

"The only purpose it serves is to slow down the group that has to deal with you as a Tank." Not only is this 100% untrue, but it's also rude and toxic, I'd appreciate if you stop talking like this. Everytime I'm left at ~4% of my health, Tenacity saved my life, that's how I see it. And imo me being alive matters infinitely more than me doing a few points of superfluous damage. If a Tank's damage is deciding whether a run is cleared or not, there's an issue going on with the DPS to be honest.
Btw, if anyone tries to vote kick someone from a group based solely on materia, they are toxic and the definition of an elitist. I have never been vote kicked from an instance despite my melds because thankfully 95% of the game knows this as well.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

What else are healers supposed to do? This game's content hits like a wet noodle. Healers place so much emphasis on their DPS because they'd be AFK otherwise. When the current Expert dungeon bosses can't break 50,000 on their busters despite the tank having several vuln stacks, it highlights just how little healing is actually required.

As for your BLM. Those "nuclear bombs" will deal significantly more damage on a pack of ten mobs than three. So waiting until the tank has everything gathered up is far better than wanting baby pulls.

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There is a HUGE difference between a "baby" pack and a pack of 20+ mobs. I only get bored when the Tank runs from the start to the first boss before finally stopping. You can grab 10 mobs in the first two rooms of a dungeon. Ten mobs is a baby pack. 30 is a monstrous pull.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

I'll admit that I did show slight toxicity in my past responses, I had good intentions but just came across the wrong way. I'll apologize for that. But I gotta be real with you man, by saying "especially you", you're inferring that I'm the main one showing toxicity in this thread, and that couldn't be further from the truth. My main mission here is to just defend people from verbal abuse, especially verbal abuse they don't deserve.

People are allowed to disagree with the pull style, but leave it at that. They must not start disrespecting the Tank because of it. There are people in this thread who are seriously (and proudly) putting down Tanks who pull small and speaking so nastily about them when the Tank didn't even do or say anything to them. I read a response from a guy who said Tanks who do this shouldn't even queue up. Really? Just because they pull small they're not allowed to play the game? Like, come on man. That's just messed up, stuff like that is not okay, and yes I do hold onto the belief that stuff like that does come across as elitist. So to restate my main point, you can feel how you wanna feel about it, but don't start disrespecting people over it (something we all need to work on in this thread).

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Well what do you do in your runs as a tank?
And I don't mean to disrespect you, I really wasn't, but I just saw you
really at the one person and it was kind of mean.

That said, I guess it all depends on how well anyone can keep up.
Don't stress your healers though if they seem to struggle.
Why can't people just ask whether not they're good for big or small pulls?
People act like you can't talk anymore, takes 4 seconds.
There's no need to take people on the stake about it, jeez.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

snip.

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Your job as a tank is to hold threat while contributing as much as you can to the group you are in. As long as the mobs aren't attacking your group and you know how to effectively spread out and juggle your defensive cooldowns, that is all you need for survivability. Using full determination and Tenacity materia isn't going to help you live any longer, and If you are having to rely on it you either need to learn how to tank or get a new healer.


I honestly can't comprehend why you would intentionally gimp yourself because you seem insistent on sticking to archaic rules of Tanking. Not every Tank in every game needs to focus on reducing the damage they take, FFXIV is one of those exceptions. Every single point of damage you take in this game is 100% scripted, there is zero reason to focus on decreasing how much damage you take, You are never going to be in a situation where you go "Man I would have survived that Tank Buster had i beefed up defensively by melding tenacity", If you are dying to any damage you tank in this game you either don't know how to manage your cooldowns properly or you don't have a good healer. That is it, period.


I honestly don't care if you want to interpret reality as me being "Toxic". You need to get over your Primadonna Tank mentality and start accepting the fact that what you're saying is 100% incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Your job as a tank is to hold threat while contributing as much as you can to the group you are in. As long as the mobs aren't attacking your group and you know how to effectively spread out and juggle your defensive cooldowns, that is all you need for survivability. Using full determination and Tenacity materia isn't going to help you live any longer, and If you are having to rely on it you either need to learn how to tank or get a new healer.


I honestly can't comprehend why you would intentionally gimp yourself because you seem insistent on sticking to archaic rules of Tanking. Not every Tank in every game needs to focus on reducing the damage they take, FFXIV is one of those exceptions. Every single point of damage you take in this game is 100% scripted, there is zero reason to focus on decreasing how much damage you take, You are never going to be in a situation where you go "Man I would have survived that Tank Buster had i beefed up defensively by melding tenacity", If you are dying to any damage you tank in this game you either don't know how to manage your cooldowns properly or you don't have a good healer. That is it, period.

I honestly don't care if you want to interpret reality as me being "Toxic". You need to get over your Primadonna Tank mentality and start accepting the fact that what you're saying is 100% incorrect.

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TBF, as someone that also melds TEN/DET on my Tanks, I do it because I flat out do not trust PUG healers, like at all. Admittedly, I don't do anything beyond Dungeons with my Tanks because I'm a meh Tank when it comes to CD management but I don't view TEN/DET melds as gimping the group but just something that I do to ease my anxiety for tanking. Is it optimal? No, but then again, its still a step up from a totally unmelded player and unless you're going for speed runs or World 1sts, it ultimately doesn't matter apart from the minute or 2 you save doing whatever it is you're doing.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Why ya'll responding to a troll in a troll thread?

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Because many people like to thow mud at each other (to put it nicely) in order to prove that they are a better player, person, human being than the other "lowlife". The exception is players who are actually useful without letting their ego get in the way, regardless of how top-tier raiding or casual-gaming they are.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Your job as a tank is to hold threat while contributing as much as you can to the group you are in. As long as the mobs aren't attacking your group and you know how to effectively spread out and juggle your defensive cooldowns, that is all you need for survivability. Using full determination and Tenacity materia isn't going to help you live any longer, and If you are having to rely on it you either need to learn how to tank or get a new healer.


I honestly can't comprehend why you would intentionally gimp yourself because you seem insistent on sticking to archaic rules of Tanking. Not every Tank in every game needs to focus on reducing the damage they take, FFXIV is one of those exceptions. Every single point of damage you take in this game is 100% scripted, there is zero reason to focus on decreasing how much damage you take, You are never going to be in a situation where you go "Man I would have survived that Tank Buster had i beefed up defensively by melding tenacity", If you are dying to any damage you tank in this game you either don't know how to manage your cooldowns properly or you don't have a good healer. That is it, period.


I honestly don't care if you want to interpret reality as me being "Toxic". You need to get over your Primadonna Tank mentality and start accepting the fact that what you're saying is 100% incorrect.

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You have your opinion, and I have mine. Stop speaking as if your word is law and I must abide by it. You couldn't be more wrong in that sense. Also, if you're trying to say acting in this toxic manner is the equivalent of "reality", then I really worry about your social skills man. It's possible to try and convey a point without being condescending, disrespectful, and name-calling ("Primadonna Tank", really?).

THAT is it, period.

I read plenty of lvl80 explaining that they do big pulls because they are bored in low level dungeons. Did y ou even try to understand a low level dps who will have to just keep spamming his only aoe all the dungeon ? Do you think it's not boring ? The only difference is that they need to do the dungeon for story, for xp or to farm stuff And a lvl80 doesn't need it. I Don't think that your Advanced stuff and the fact you Don't like to lose your time gives you the right to break ne players experience.

People do tend to completely freak out over this subject. You should probably toss in healer dps to really get them riled up. Personally I'd much rather take a few minutes more doing a dungeon than speed run everything. Unfortunately for me, that is not what the majority seem to want so I do the best I can.

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Originally Posted by Superlooser

Did y ou even try to understand a low level dps who will have to just keep spamming his only aoe all the dungeon ?

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So what? Otherwise he'd have to spam his 1-2-3 combo if it's a low level dungeon. Equally boring, but spamming AoEs on big pulls gets you out faster. Your point is invalid.