So, can we just ban damage meters already.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Most oranges are "pads" done from specific parsing runs. Just the nature of the beast really. Bored people that clear content either way and then want to see how much individual members can do if they push it to the extreme.

Most healers don't get the chance to. Like me. I could parse orange no problem but due to my groups performance I simply lack the GCDs to do so. I'd reckon that is the case for most healers esp during progression.

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Are some parses pads? Of course. Saying the majority of oranges are pads is laughable. A group going in with several members pushing 90+ percentile is the whole team working together—which is the entire point of optimization.

Likewise, saying you could parse orange no problem if it wasn't for bad players is, frankly, a cop out. While having to GCD heal or raise will inevitably impact your numbers. You can still parse orange if you're already good enough to reach that tier consistently.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I see this a lot and I tend to disagree honestly. It may apply to orange rankings, yes, but it's easy to get a medium purple even in supbar groups.
Just a matter of fact that most healers don't utilize their healing toolkit properly, as in focussing on oGCDs, mapping their tools over a whole fight and pick the right tool for the situation to minimize overhealing.

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You do realize that you are contradicting yourself here, right?
In good groups, yeah you can get through a lot of fights w/o having to GCD heal much. In crappy groups... not so much. They will force you to GCD heal and they will (in case of WHM) also often force you to use your weaker AoE heal 2x instead of being able to cure III because apparently stacking is hard. ._.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

A group going in with several members pushing 90+ percentile is the whole team working together—which is the entire point of optimization.

Likewise, saying you could parse orange no problem if it wasn't for bad players is, frankly, a cop out. While having to GCD heal or raise will inevitably impact your numbers. You can still parse orange if you're already good enough to reach that tier consistently.

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Bolded: exactly my point. My individual skill doesn't mean much if my group has crap DPS, extends the fight duration so the initial burst DPS dissipates, doesn't stack CDs properly and eats a lot of avoidable damage to the point of me having to rez (and pump them back up).

Second paragraph: that entirely depends on how good the orange parsing groups are. If the top 5% reports already are flawless play, no you won't end up there in a flawed run. That's just how the math works. I've seen a WHM do 7.xK DPS. Quite amazing, but at the same time the dude did like 4K HPS. If I tried that we would wipe... VERY quickly.

I've known many a healer capable of parsing orange with a purple co-healer in PUGs, with deaths, little tank/dps group mitigation, and no aligned buffs. It's not always straightforward, yes group cohesion helps a ton but there's so much more, from knowledge of the fight, how well you communicate with your co-healer, your gear, your latency, the actual encounter etc..

The difference between 95 and 99 is big enough that you can waste a few GCDs and ressources covering up people's mistakes. If you're talking about higher purples that's even easier. You can achieve that in pugs even if you die.

Yes healer parses are dependent on the party but that's not the only criteria. It still takes skill to get there and it's not very different from the skill required by dps who basically almost only have their rotation to worry about while everyone else handles most of mechanics for them. Healers adjust amiright

The good thing about healers is that you have two rankings. I'm not impressed by a healer that parse purple on damage but do grey on healing while his co-healer is parsing purple on both.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

You do realize that you are contradicting yourself here, right?
In good groups, yeah you can get through a lot of fights w/o having to GCD heal much. In crappy groups... not so much. They will force you to GCD heal and they will (in case of WHM) also often force you to use your weaker AoE heal 2x instead of being able to cure III because apparently stacking is hard. ._.

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Not really, I just pointed out that a lot of healers are not as good as they believe or claim to be. If you utilize your toolkit properly you can get good parses no matter how 'crappy' a group is.
I'm not trying to attack anyone, but it's really just personal experience that healers are often not as competent when it comes to clicking ALL of their buttons.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I've known many a healer capable of parsing orange with a purple co-healer in PUGs, with deaths, little tank/dps group mitigation, and no aligned buffs. It's not always straightforward, yes group cohesion helps a ton but there's so much more, from knowledge of the fight, how well you communicate with your co-healer, your gear, your latency, the actual encounter etc..

The difference between 95 and 99 is big enough that you can waste a few GCDs and ressources covering up people's mistakes. If you're talking about higher purples that's even easier. You can achieve that in pugs even if you die.

Yes healer parses are dependent on the party but that's not the only criteria. It still takes skill to get there and it's not very different from the skill required by dps who basically almost only have their rotation to worry about while everyone else handles most of mechanics for them. Healers adjust amiright

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Literally this. Yes your party matters, yes your gear matters, but much more important is actual player skill.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

The good thing about healers is that you have two rankings. Good ones are going to do a decent job at both, bad ones are going to be bad at one or the other and really bad healer are going to be bad at both. I'm not impressed by a healer that parse purple on damage but they are grey on healing while his co-healer is parsing purple at both.

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Heh, in fairness, in an optimal setting both healers have grey healing. I moreso try to look at how close the HPS is, and if they're not close together to see what the overheal is on the healer with the higher healing is. If the HPS is like 13k vs 7k, but the 13k has 65% overheal, I wouldn't consider the second healer bad at all, since over half of the other healers healing was unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Heh, in fairness, in an optimal setting both healers have grey healing. I moreso try to look at how close the HPS is, and if they're not close together to see what the overheal is on the healer with the higher healing is. If the HPS is like 13k vs 7k, but the 13k has 65% overheal, I wouldn't consider the second healer bad at all, since over half of the other healers healing was unnecessary.

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Afaik fflogs already excludes the overheal in the actual HPS numbers. So it would be 13k effective healing and 65% MORE on top which was pure overheal.

Regarding differences in healings, it's not always that easy to determine if the contribution of healing was 'fair' or not and needs to be done on a case to case basis.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...52/unknown.png
This is taken from one of my very own e1s parses (I'm the whm) and while one might say 'whm had to heal way too much!' I strongly disagree bc the sch and me both hit a very good rank on dps too. It really boils down to healing potencies and therefore it's hard to judge healer logs imo.


The sad thing is, a lot of ppl judge parsers/fflogs and players who use it without knowing what the tools can actualy do for you and how much information you can get out of them the game never offers you. Most players have no clue about their performance and if they don't care that's fair, but if there was an official tool available to improve your performance I believe a lot more ppl would bother using it. Even if it's just to take a casual attempt on bettering yourself I think it would have a huge impact. :)

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Heh, in fairness, in an optimal setting both healers have grey healing. I moreso try to look at how close the HPS is, and if they're not close together to see what the overheal is on the healer with the higher healing is. If the HPS is like 13k vs 7k, but the 13k has 65% overheal, I wouldn't consider the second healer bad at all, since over half of the other healers healing was unnecessary.

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You are not wrong and I understand what are you trying to say. Rest assured I take into account what you are saying. Still, I can notice when a healer has DPS tunnel (the same way I understand I using more resources than necessary to heal something and I should be DPsing more) vision so I always check the healing too.

My issue with parsing in respect to healers is it is not the healers performance that will dictate how good the parse is but every elses performance.

If ppl take more dmg the healers dmg goes down the dumpster because it makes you actually do your job and heal more.

Overhealing on whm is also sorta the name of the game as most heals are large aoe heals and lilly burst heals. You basically heal at X spot in the fight. If someone has more health then normal you still do X aoe heal to get everyone else up thus overhealing the 1-2 out of 8 ppl needing heals.

The other issue is people who look at the upper tier parses and judge healers based on the dmg numbers.. When probably the top 10-20% of the parses are in groups setup specifically to run parses. Which does not even close to reflect the actual real world situation of the class. Aka groups where 1 of the 2 healers almost purly dps the whole run with maby a few insta cast big heals or an insta cast shield now or then.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...52/unknown.png
This is taken from one of my very own e1s parses (I'm the whm) and while one might say 'whm had to heal way too much!' I strongly disagree bc the sch and me both hit a very good rank on dps too. It really boils down to healing potencies and therefore it's hard to judge healer logs imo.

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WHM will almost always have higher HPS than SCH in optimized play because Afflatus skills should take precedence over SCH oGCDs in a lot of scenarios (esp e1s where you can misery both adds at the very least, probably even moreso if the meteors are in range of the boss but I haven't tested that).