Please no more Eureka!

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

The numbers show that Eureka was a success compared to previous relics though. Your feelings are not fact btw lol.

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The numbers show that people reached level cap in Eureka.You can reach level cap there without even touching the relic at all. Even with those of us who did touch the weapons, you can skip the light grind in Pyros if the substats don't matter to you, because you just want the shiny glamour at the end of Pyros or Hydatos. Oh, hey, I guess those empty weapons aren't BiS, huh?

If you want to be more specific as to how many people that capped managed to get to the i405 weapon, and how many of those bothered with the substats, then you're going to need better data than "Number of people who reached level 50 in Pyros."

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Originally Posted by Aster_E

The numbers show that people reached level cap in Eureka.You can reach level cap there without even touching the relic at all.

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Yes, because half the people here are not complaining about the relic being the only reason they did Eureka. But anyhow, I wasn't comparing who got their relic. I'm comparing who bothered doing the content. And so far those who bothered doing Eureka to level 50 are more than those that bothered doing the relic till the minion stage (given the fact that it had 2 years advantage and the numbers included that too).

Why are you bringing BiS into this now? If someone is fixated on getting the relic to be BiS and they don't do any savage content, then they should reconsider why they need the relic to be BiS so badly. I got my RDM weapon with stats better than my O12s weapon, but for what? Nothing really. I just happened to have had a good chunk of light from the time I spent in Pyros and used it on it. And I've been going to Pyros till the last week before Hydatos. And I didn't use a single light on my DRK weapon, since it's pretty much useless. So we don't need to bother knowing who got the relic and who got good stats on it.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The problem I see with a new casual content is what rewards you would gain. Tomestones is the most casual form of rewards, since it's completely separated from RNG, can be done little by little, and allow you to buy endgame gear. And you already have tons of ways to gain tomestones with very little playtime.

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Tomestones cannot be considered rewards, when they are a necessity to upgrade your gear at endgame, unless we resort to only buying gear and using drops all the time.

I think you're not understanding scale and continuity.

Even if you were to combine all the significant 'casual' content which has been added from patch 4.25:The introduction of Eureka Anemos to patch 4.55 Eureka Hydatos, they are like shallow puddles(Hildebrand,Four Lords,Alliance Raids,new treasure map,etc,etc) in terms of time and engagement,compared to the scale of Eureka (New maps/zones,new battle system,etc)

The longest any of these types of 'casual' content can keep players engaged is about a month. This has more to do with daily/weekly caps. For example, Doman Enclave,Namazu Beast Tribe,Custom Deliveries.

The remaining like Hildebrand,Four Lords,Alliance Raids, Treasure Map,etc can be completed from less than 30 mins to a few hours(Doing all of the Four Lords,Alliance Raids in a single session)

There's nothing wrong with having shallow puddles of 'casual' content,for example the Gold Saucer. But ideally, there should be both shallow puddles of 'casual' content and casual content with depth similar to Eureka.

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and the number of active players that have reached the Pyros level cap of 50 is:
18,6% JP
5,8% NA
7,3% EU

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And in NA it's 8.58% for a content that's out more than two years and 5.8% for Pyros. This just shows how loved the previous relic method was /s. I guess this is why SE considers Eureka a success.

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The point I was trying to make earlier is that if we're judging the success of Eureka against the previous relic, it's not a very good or valid comparison.

Firstly, Eureka is not just about the relic.

Secondly, as a thought experiment, if the previous relics had the sheer number and kind of rewards that Eureka has attached to it, I'm fairly confident that 8.58% would be much higher.

Unless, someone comes out with stats for completion of Eureka's relics and even then, it might not be a good comparison because going through Eureka's multiple zones/content is more than just about the relic and the rewards you get for progressing through Eureka.

Many people didnt even do it for the relic all they wanted was the glamour and emotes. They had to pay outrages prices or grind for months and still not get the items due to the low drop chance on top of the multi level rng loot chest.

RNG on RNG on RNG is not fun and is lazy game mechanic used to pad out already boring content.

If Eureka didnt have additional rewards past the relic that people would want the zone would be dead 2 weeks after launch similar to "The Feast PVP." No one outside of helping a friend that got left behind would even give going back in a second thought. The answer would be an obvious no.

DIADEM 2.0 was better content and has more replay-ability than Eureka has/will have.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

Secondly, as a thought experiment, if the previous relics had the sheer number and kind of rewards that Eureka has attached to it, I'm fairly confident that 8.58% would be much higher.

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The question is, where would you put those rewards? Do I deserve a mount for farming Atmas? I got an upgraded weapon for that, though. Do I deserve a mount for doing 9 books? Do I deserve a hairstyle for farming light? You want to attach more rewards than getting the relic itself for the steps you did solely for getting the relic? There was no new content to add rewards to, since almost every step was just you doing old content that already had its rewards in it (except the first few ARR ones).

Now let's take a really close look at the previous relic. You DO have other rewards there when you do it. You can get a mount if you did your light farming for EX trials (so that's 7 mounts). You can get a minion and bardings if you did the boss fates in each map (so hat's 6 minions in HW and two bardings in total from fates). You can get gear for glamour if you did dungeons to farm for tomes. No hairstyles or furnishing items though (Eureka has only one hairstyle).

Now you might say "But those existed before the relic steps and they're not tied to it". That's true, but not everyone has gotten them, especially the trial mounts. Just like how some people I've been with finally gotten their nightmare mount using BLU. And Eureka rewards are also not tied to the relic.

I'm a simple miqo'te.
I see a post begging for Eureka to die a merciful death, and I add a +1.
I also pray that being number 4,379 to plead for 5.0's relics to be nowhere near new-Eureka will have some effect.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I'm a simple miqo'te.
I see a post begging for Eureka to die a merciful death, and I add a +1.
I also pray that being number 4,379 to plead for 5.0's relics to be nowhere near new-Eureka will have some effect.

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I'm expecting their logic to be like this...

SE: "4,379 people have given feedback regarding Eureka and the relics tied to them. That must mean they love it and the content was a success! Let's do it again!"

Players: "But SE, the feedback wasn-"

SE: "Shhhh…just look at the pretty Viera..."

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Players: "But SE, the feedback wasn-"

SE: "Shhhh…just look at the pretty Viera..."

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Shadowbringer's entire marketing strategy in a nutshell.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

Tomestones cannot be considered rewards, when they are a necessity to upgrade your gear at endgame

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I really hope you simply forgot that capped tome gear is anything but mandatory to access endgame casual content, or else you just said that gear wasn't a reward, and then you have a much deeper problem since it's the only thing this game has to make your character evolve. On a sidenote, though, even if we're talking about uncapped tome gear, it's still not a necessity (That's one thing SB did better than HW), as dungeon gear is enough to unlock access to 8-man raid, and 8-man raid give access to 24-man raid.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

I think you're not understanding scale and continuity.

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No, you're not understanding the concept of casual. You ask for a content that requires the same dedication from players that, by definition, don't give the game that dedication. If that's the kind of content you want, you're not a casual, you're simply someone who doesn't like Eureka. And you still have a problem because capped tome gear covers a concept of endgame reward structure from content that doesn't deserve it, which could make a new content "redundant".

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

The longest any of these types of 'casual' content can keep players engaged is about a month. This has more to do with daily/weekly caps.

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Again, that's false. Obtaining a full capped tome gear set will take much more subscription time than that, even before considering stuffing multiple jobs. And weekly cap is something made for casual, because it prevents them from falling too far behind.