The WOL and Mass Murder

... because not all souls get plunged into the depths of the Aetherial Sea and blended up. Strong-willed individuals don't go too deep and are reborn.

The Ancients we meet who comment on our soul "color" also don't say our soul is exactly the same, just very similar. Perhaps that's due to dilution, but perhaps that's because even Azem wasn't able to fully avoid the pull of the Lifestream.

Regardless, that doesn't preclude the planet creating new souls, something from the Ancients' plan to sacrifice new ones to Zodiark for their brethren's back in return hinges on.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

It seems this bears repeating.

Alisaie: The starshower didn't awaken me to Hydaelyn's voice. But that vision of the Final Days, of Amaurot burning... It filled me with sadness to the very pit of my being. Things I once knew, people I once loved, promises I once made... It felt as though long-forgotten memories were dancing at the edges of my mind. But when I try to focus on them, they simply fade away. An effect of having a fractured soul, I shouldn't doubt.

Stunned Citizen: No, I didn't hear anything. But... Why do I feel so... Like I've lost something dear to me...

Not having the Echo does not mean that the person isn't a sundered Ancient. This was made abundantly clear, repeatedly, in the ShB patches. Like I said in another thread, a lot of y'all really need to replay ShB and not skip dialog/cutscenes.

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But why Rulakir! WHY must we all sit through Shadowbringers and listen to Emet speak for two whole minutes?! He's awful and Shadowbringers should have had Hydaelyn making sweet, sweet love to our ears in all of Emet's scenes instead!

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It seems some of y'all simply aren't GETTING IT. The Echo is meaningless and WORTHLESS as a talking point because the Ancients were not some separate species confined to Amaurot. The "Ancient" species was, AGAIN Star. wide. Not having the Echo means nothing since all the Sundered souls were split from the Star's previous inhabitants, a.k.a. Ancients. Unless you want to die on the hill that some of the Sundered were once Morbols who got handed a soul by Althyk instead? Weird hill to be sure, but it seems to be where this is leading.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Hydaelyn shot first.

The Ascians then tried to fight back and retake their stolen world.

Odd that Hydaelyn never told her footsoldiers what started the war.

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I used to believe that too but then I gave it a bit more thought.

The real issue was not that the civilizations grow nihilistic and suicidal overtime.
The real issue was that they grow powerful enough to see their nihilism through.

At worst, a nihilistic cavemen is just going to run around, bonk other random cavemen and then get himself bonked to death. The life in the universe wont die and the rest will move on and find happiness in life.
At worst, a nihilistic ancient is going to create a universe destroying bird loli and then just runs off back to his corner to keep brooding. The life in the universe will die and the rest will not move on and find oblivion in death.

If Venat had enough smarts to present the issue as ancients being suicidal nihilists who were too powerful for their own good then she wouldn't had to hide the truth from everyone.

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Originally Posted by Dzonathan

I used to believe that too but then I gave it a bit more thought.

The real issue wasn't not that the civilizations grow nihilistic and suicidal overtime.
The real issue was that they grow powerful enough to see their nihilism through.

At worst, a nihilistic cavemen is just going to run around, bonk other random cavemen and then get himself bonked to death. The life in the universe wont die and the rest will move on and find happiness in life.
At worst, a nihilistic ancient is going to create a universe destroying bird loli and then just runs off back to his corner to keep brooding. the life in the universe will die and the rest will not move on and find oblivion in death.

If Venat had enough smarts to present the issue as ancients being suicidal nihilists who were too powerful for their own good then she wouldn't had to hide the truth from everyone.

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I largely agree with you, and actually never thought about it that way; we're knee-deep in a raid story of seeing what Ancients handling things poorly looks like, and yeeeeeeeah, maybe do your best to avoid giving a whole society the impetus to do that.

But mostly I'm replying to point out the black magic you have probably-accidentally stumbled on to make your avatar have a purple background, and I just want to applaud you for discovering what's definitely gonna be the new OF fashion trend. I checked how that happened by the way for anyone curious:

That's the Abyssos fending chestpiece's ring effect; it goes red on the edges, which blends with the usual blue.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I largely agree with you, and actually never thought about it that way; we're knee-deep in a raid story of seeing what Ancients handling things poorly looks like, and yeeeeeeeah, maybe do your best to avoid giving a whole society the impetus to do that.

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It’s what makes Elidibus’ comment about the Ancients crying out in “rage and despair” so important in hindsight, imagine a whole world going through that for the first time.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

It’s what makes Elidibus’ comment about the Ancients crying out in “rage and despair” so important in hindsight, imagine a whole world going through that for the first time.

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The difference is that for some, its something to hate and want to see them destroyed "for their own good". For others, it's something to sympathize with and pity and would see such vulnerable souls protected. Once again, as an autist the general community's reaction to shit like this is baffling. It's like how my kind was treated in the Puritan age of early America. Treated as possessed children, to be burned alive or some such. If you see something like this and see people that gotta die for the good of all, I think maybe YOU are the tyrant who supports dictatorial regimes. I just don't get how such massive amounts of death is treated as a good thing.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

It’s what makes Elidibus’ comment about the Ancients crying out in “rage and despair” so important in hindsight, imagine a whole world going through that for the first time.

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Especially because, as we learned from a brief blip in the first Tales from the Dawn story, it's possible for someone to have a completely rogue creation that needs to be put down. In that case, a child's.

So not only do you have to worry about someone consciously deciding 'nothing matters and everything is meaningless so let's just start killing things', you also have to worry about the probably much more likely scenario of someone's emotional turmoil about the end of the goddamn world causing their creations to go dangerously haywire.

It's not just 'this information will make people who aren't ready for it sad and irrational', it's 'this information will make people who aren't ready for it ticking time bombs of emotional turmoil that even they can't control'. You don't just have to worry about Fandaniel hearing the facts and getting too dour to help, it's that you have to worry about someone who hears it and feels strongly enough to create an exploding bird that'll beeline straight through his office window, possibly without even meaning to.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Especially because, as we learned from a brief blip in the first Tales from the Dawn story, it's possible for someone to have a completely rogue creation that needs to be put down. In that case, a child's.

So not only do you have to worry about someone consciously deciding 'nothing matters and everything is meaningless so let's just start killing things', you also have to worry about the probably much more likely scenario of someone's emotional turmoil about the end of the goddamn world causing their creations to go dangerously haywire.

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way off topic but all im imagining right now is azem taking a giant tower out back with a shotgun lol.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I largely agree with you, and actually never thought about it that way; we're knee-deep in a raid story of seeing what Ancients handling things poorly looks like, and yeeeeeeeah, maybe do your best to avoid giving a whole society the impetus to do that.

But mostly I'm replying to point out the black magic you have probably-accidentally stumbled on to make your avatar have a purple background, and I just want to applaud you for discovering what's definitely gonna be the new OF fashion trend. I checked how that happened by the way for anyone curious:

That's the Abyssos fending chestpiece's ring effect; it goes red on the edges, which blends with the usual blue.

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Yeah. It's the latest raid fending chestpiece.
The one with ankles long cape, symmetrical shoulder pads and halo effect in case it didn't had enough awesome.
I fully expect it to be a long term choice for all Azeroth refugees.

As for going back to the main topic.
WoL is almost always a diplomat first, fighter second.
Each and every time he visits a new location or culture he first spends a day talking to people with Alphy before unsheathing his weapon.
I can scarcely recall any cases where WoL started shit besides Kugane.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Especially because, as we learned from a brief blip in the first Tales from the Dawn story, it's possible for someone to have a completely rogue creation that needs to be put down. In that case, a child's.

So not only do you have to worry about someone consciously deciding 'nothing matters and everything is meaningless so let's just start killing things', you also have to worry about the probably much more likely scenario of someone's emotional turmoil about the end of the goddamn world causing their creations to go dangerously haywire.

It's not just 'this information will make people who aren't ready for it sad and irrational', it's 'this information will make people who aren't ready for it ticking time bombs of emotional turmoil that even they can't control'. You don't just have to worry about Fandaniel hearing the facts and getting too dour to help, it's that you have to worry about someone who hears it and feels strongly enough to create an exploding bird that'll beeline straight through his office window, possibly without even meaning to.

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it just hit me but now their overly strict society makes sense. it seems like creation magic doesn't need a lot of training to use so anything could be accidently created so they place heavy restrictions on themselves and discourage any overt individuality resulting in the world we briefly saw.

edit i may have said this before and forgot so srry if i did.