Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

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You and Thunda_Cat seem to have to same problem. It's like all or nothing with you guys.

The person you quoted was right. Cleric Stance does separate the bad from the good from the great. I don't know why you automatically assumed he was say "using Cleric stance = good healer".

What makes a healer better than another healer is not just that they are better at healing appropriately, or able to manage their MP. But also that they know how to properly utilize CS. No one has ever claimed that just using CS makes you a better healer, it's the ability to properly use it. How is that so hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

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I never said choose between someone who will heal you and someone who might kill you. And why is it so black and white with you?

How about this: would you rather a healer who only heals or a healer who heals and uses Cleric Stance properly?

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

If your hp was really 1k or less in 60 content pulls. You'd be dead before the healer would react, unless your taking HP loss at an extremely low rate by some miracle. (HG + regens).

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Thank you for supporting my point that CS promotes sloppy play. Incidentally, that's also not completely correct either, as it's very possible to time Clemency to land on myself right as I'm about to die, something I've had to do numerous times because healers would refuse to pop out of cs to heal me. I've healed and tanked pretty much all content that I enjoy doing, and I do realize why healers like dpsing, as it's something I grudgingly do despite how boring the healers dps 'rotation' is. Incidentally, it's hardly generalizing when literally every dps focused healer I've never had would've resulted in a wipe if I was anything other than a pld.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

CS promotes sloppy play.

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How? It's not CS that is sloppy, it's the player. If the player practiced enough they wouldn't be sloppy.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

How? It's not CS that is sloppy, it's the player. If the player practiced enough they wouldn't be sloppy.

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CS seems to help promote the concept that healers can ignore the rest of the party for the sake of their own numbers. I can count the number of competent uses of it(not including the people in my own fc) on one hand, and pretty ugh every use of it I've seen has led to panic attacks as I desperately try to keep myself alive with my own self heals while the healer ignores their job as healer and let's me die. And to answer your earlier question, I'd prefer a healer that just heals, as that not only allows me to comfortably sit in dps stance, but also pretty much guarantees a smooth, stress free run.

I'm quite sure I'm not the only one that'll happily votekick a healer for focusing so much on dps that they let an easily prevented wipe happen, either.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

snipperoo.

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I would kick a healer who ignores their primary role as well.

If you don't think it's possible for a tank to stay in their DPS Stance just because the healer decided to use CS then... I don't know who you've been playing with.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Thank you for supporting my point that CS promotes sloppy play.

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If that's your argument then I could of been saying your stances promote sloppy play. But I can't because I know everybody is different. Something I don't think you've yet to understand. Or rather, you don't want to.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I would kick a healer who ignores their primary role as well.

If you don't think it's possible for a tank to stay in their DPS Stance just because the healer decided to use CS then... I don't know who you've been playing with.

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I'm more than happy to sit in dps stance regardless, though some of the healers I've ran into certainly seem to support that train of thought. I actually had a scholar in full raid gear cuss me out in A9N last week because I was main tanking in SwO. Naturally, I pointed out their apparent competency as a healer thanks to their gear, whilst rotating cd's, and they responded by dissipating their fairy and leaving it unsummoned for the rest of the fight, while the AST worked alone to keep everyone up. It was remarkably hilarious, especially when I questioned why they wanted ShO.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

I am not going to risk going into CS and compromising healing with a group of people who can't DPS out of a wet paper bag.

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That's odd, I would say CS is even more mandatory at that point, personally, since that's one of the situations where I feel obligated to turn it on despite hating the play style.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I have to agree with some of what your saying because my healing has been put under pressure by a healing partner that stayed in cleric to sow how skilled she was at dps/ healing, becuase it is more 'valued' I was kicked for healing.

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Youch... that sucks. I would've berated the other healer for not helping out if I'd seen that you were struggling. :c Sucks.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

You and Thunda_Cat seem to have to same problem. It's like all or nothing with you guys.

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It really is all or nothing. Cleric stance doesn't teach a healer how to play, they get pretty much no feedback on whether it's safe to use or not, whereas tanks that hop into dps stance at the wrong time are left sitting ducks, at the expense of precious resources, ((PLD/DRK)) or 10 seconds of extra vulnerability that an uninitiated tank won't have the foresight to properly mitigate. Healers get 5 secs of weaker heals, but those 5 seconds are so easily covered by other sources that it feels like a slap on the wrist more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Incorrect. Healer dps is not vital for anything other than carrying bad dps.

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Gonna disagree with you there all the way on that one. CS is not used to make up any deficit on DPS - it's called "Joining the fray" - I run with core groups all the time that can utilize their classes to its full utility. A healer's primary objective is to ensure the party is kept alive and I can do that with Assize, Medica 2, Regen and Asylum all the while switching to CS and dotting up the boss while tossing a barrage of Stone 3 spells. Why do I do this?

For an even quicker result of getting in, getting out and getting done. While I will agree to some point it can add to a weaker DPS group, no it's not the primary function.

This is when I need to focus on healing more than anything. Suggesting CS is solely used for that just invalidated your point.

I use CS WHEN my DPS group is on top of it's game. Not the other way around.

From my own experience alone, when I go into a dungeon with a less than stellar group of DPSers, my primary focus is to ensure healing is all the way on and the ability to mitigate MP regeneration. I am not going to risk going into CS and compromising healing with a group of people who can't DPS out of a wet paper bag.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

CS seems to help promote the concept that healers can ignore the rest of the party for the sake of their own numbers. I can count the number of competent uses of it(not including the people in my own fc) on one hand, and pretty ugh every use of it I've seen has led to panic attacks as I desperately try to keep myself alive with my own self heals while the healer ignores their job

I'm quite sure I'm not the only one that'll happily votekick a healer for focusing so much on dps that they let an easily prevented wipe happen, either.

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I have to agree with some of what your saying because my healing has been put under pressure by a healing partner that stayed in cleric to sow how skilled she was at dps/ healing, becuase it is more 'valued' I was kicked for healing.