DPSing as a healer

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08-12-2016, 08:56 AM
Gemina

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Maybe I missed a few posts because I don't recall seeing any asking. Just basically dps as a healer or be called lazy, selfish, bad, etc. Or be told to change your role because you don't want to stance dance. Despite the fact it's not mandatory Personally, I have zero problem with dpsing as a healer. I dps whenever I can. But if I see another healer not dpsing? Oh well, it's not the end of the world. If they're keeping the party alive, that's my primary concern.

Yup, exactly. At no point have I felt like I need to perform at an optimal 99.9% level, 100% of the time. It's being made to feel lazy, selfish, bad and carried if I choose to only heal. I don't see any asking either, I see a lot of barking from pushers telling their healers what to do. I've been in plenty of groups where the healer only heals. It has literally never been a problem getting clears within a reasonable amount of time. I've had more issues getting clears when the healer is DPSing since they cannot reliably do both duties. Doing both takes a reasonable amount of skill, and not everyone possesses this skill. Sorry pushers, that's just the way it is, and why devs will never require healer DPS contribution in casual or story mode content.
08-12-2016, 09:23 AM
Gemina

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

You missed many posts I think. And they ARE bad if they're not even up to the Hall of the Novice level. Performing at the Hall of the NOVICE tutorial level is the minimum level we should expect. If you cannot, pick another class or another game. No other class can perform worse than that and not get kicked. But that stupid green icon and "healer" makes everyone get their underwear in a knot when they're asked to do the ACTUAL minimum THAT THE GAME ITSELF ASKS YOU TO.

You can clear HoN using only heals. I know because I just did it. So by your definition these players are not bad. HoN is seriously taken out of context.
08-12-2016, 11:02 AM
Kitfox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemina

Doing both takes a reasonable amount of skill, and not everyone possesses this skill. Sorry pushers, that's just the way it is...

Yes, but that just makes one a bad healer. I'm convinced that 'Healer' is a bad name for the role the same way 'Tank' is, they seem to carry the association that these roles don't have an offensive aspect to them. A good player should be able to use all the tools provided to them in an efficient manner. If one does not, they are objectively a bad player, regardless if the reason is anxiety, laziness, pride or incompetence.
08-12-2016, 12:45 PM
FoxyAreku

So would people be okay with a tank who grabbed hate then did nothing but auto attack?

He has hate, he's doing his job right?

What about a DPS who just pressed buttons at random and never used buffs?

They're doing damage, so they're fine, definitely not bad or lazy at all.

Sure people are entitled to play however they want in solo play, but in groups, you should be expected to do the bare minimum. If you refuse, well then fine, but don't expect people to be nice to you about it. You will be called lazy and bad-because that's exactly what you are being.
08-12-2016, 01:23 PM
CookieMonsta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemina

You can clear HoN using only heals. I know because I just did it. So by your definition these players are not bad. HoN is seriously taken out of context.

I can clear HoN without oGCDs in DRG, whats your point? Would you rather I not use any oGCDs on my DRG in dungeons too cuz thats the minimum required?
08-12-2016, 02:21 PM
Gemina

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

So would people be okay with a tank who grabbed hate then did nothing but auto attack?

He has hate, he's doing his job right?

What about a DPS who just pressed buttons at random and never used buffs?

They're doing damage, so they're fine, definitely not bad or lazy at all.

Sure people are entitled to play however they want in solo play, but in groups, you should be expected to do the bare minimum. If you refuse, well then fine, but don't expect people to be nice to you about it. You will be called lazy and bad-because that's exactly what you are being.

My expectation of tank: Willingness to learn mechanics if they don't know them. Lead the charge. Control the pace. Keep ugly mobs off of me. Try your best to avoid avoidable damage. *commendation earned
My expectation of DPS: Willingness to learn mechanics if they don't know them. Respect the tank's pace. Kill ugly mobs trying to kill the tank. Try your best to avoid avoidable damage. *commendation earned

There is only one role in this game that I expect to DPS and it belongs to the DPS classes of this game. From my experience, it takes a whole lot more than tanks and healers not contributing to DPS to seriously make things bad news. And I invite you to look at those expectations I listed above. It really isn't difficult to differentiate between players who indeed are doing only what is required, and those that are REALLY screwing things up. I have always struggled with clears when players do not perform their PRIMARY role in a group. i.e healers who don't heal, tanks who don't tank, and DPS who put up lousy numbers.

I can't be bothered monitoring if a tank is using CD's and switching stances. You know what I do notice though? When a tank decides to feed a mountain buster to the entire group. If the DPS check is met, I don't care how a DPS member goes about doing it. What I do notice? When they eat AoE like they're free donuts, because nothing reduces their DPS output more than taking a dirt nap. I am too busy focusing on my own duties to worry about what everyone else doing. I notice bad playing, when it's truly bad, because it is truly making things more difficult, and forcing the other members of the group to work harder. This does not happen when a healer does not DPS. No one has to contribute more DPS because the healer isn't doing it.
08-12-2016, 02:31 PM
Gemina

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

I can clear HoN without oGCDs in DRG, whats your point? Would you rather I not use any oGCDs on my DRG in dungeons too cuz thats the minimum required?

The point is right there in what you quoted, but it might help if you actually read the post from the poster I quoted, instead of just mine which you clearly did since you missed the point. Poster stated that players are bad if they can't perform at the HoN level. So I went and cleared it using only heals.

As for you, as long as your killing stuff and not yourself, you're a-ok in my book. I'm not going to tell you how to play YOUR job.
08-12-2016, 02:38 PM
CookieMonsta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemina

The point is right there in what you quoted, but it might help if you actually read the post from the poster I quoted, instead of just mine which you clearly did since you missed the point. Poster stated that players are bad if they can't perform at the HoN level. So I went and cleared it using only heals.

As for you, as long as your killing stuff and not yourself, you're a-ok in my book. I'm not going to tell you how to play YOUR job.

I'm not sure you understand how bad it is for a DRG to not use any oGCDs but OK let me rephrase. What if I did not use any cooldowns as a tank (including the stance btw)? since thats the bare minimum to pass HoN.
08-12-2016, 02:44 PM
FunkyBunch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemina

Poster stated that players are bad if they can't perform at the HoN level. So I went and cleared it using only heals.

As for you, as long as your killing stuff and not yourself, you're a-ok in my book. I'm not going to tell you how to play YOUR job.

I said if they can't perform at the level the Hall of the Novice TELLS you to that makes them terrible.
I didn't say only pass it or that passing the Hall of the Novice was enough.

I don't understand the sheer amount of effort spent to justify being bad at being a Healer.

The game tells you what the minimum expectation of a Healer is. You want me to ask? Fine:

Can you please stop justifying bad play, stop justifying playing worse than SE suggests in the Hall of the Novice, and please start being a better "Healer" and helping others be better healers.
08-12-2016, 04:19 PM
Gemina

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

I'm not sure you understand how bad it is for a DRG to not use any oGCDs but OK let me rephrase. What if I did not use any cooldowns as a tank (including the stance btw)? since thats the bare minimum to pass HoN.

And I think you are misunderstanding me. Being able to clear HoN only using heals is about as a great a feat as tying my shoes. But not everyone on this planet has an easy time tying their shoes do they? But they still have the right to wear them, would you agree? My point towards that other poster is that HoN is taken out of context. Don't let that counter any previous arguments of mine because it was a direct response to the other poster stating that players are bad if they can't perform at the HoN requirement. But the requirement to pass it is the bare minimum. DPSing in this instance only makes it go faster assuming you keep the tank and DPS NPCs alive, which IS what is required to pass it. They fall, you fail. This VERY same thing translates into most of the content in this game.

tl;dr HoN is irrelevant in determining player skill, and it is NOT telling healers to DPS. It encourages it. To take things further, despite the game telling you this, HoN gives you very little time to DPS. The incoming dmg in the final instance is actually quite considerable much like it is in the second or third tutorial (can't remember which) which has you constantly healing in order to pass it. HoN by FAR tells your ass to heal first, DPS second more than anything.

If you look up my lodestone, you will see that I don't even have lancer unlocked. So of course I don't understand how bad it is for DRG to not use oGCDs. I know nothing about your job so I am going to be the last person to tell you how to play it. What I do know is that your role in my party is DPS, and my expectations of you pertain to that role, not your job. I understand that if you optimize your job, you optimize your role in party play. S long as your DMG output is good enough to meet checks, you're attentive to attacking the appropriate target, and generally stay out of AoE (I know we all get hit by it here and there), that is all I require. And i will consider you a good player. But if you do MORE than that. You optimize field position, timed jumps, combo execution and also add a little touch of your own spice to end something brilliant? You're Kain Highwind to me. And I most certainly do not expect everyone to be Kain, but appreciate those who strive to be.

Bad players to me deliberately eff sh*t up. They go into instances knowing that they can do actually LESS than what is required because they know at least one player will pick up their slack, and carry them through. I mean this is seriously really crappy behaviour. I believe it should be a banable offense. But to label a healer who doesn't DPS this kind of player? The mere thought of it is just so ridiculous to me. smh.

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