SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Honestly? I'd rather have the freedom to play different roles than picking my own poison with a single role...
I would honestly much rather have something like Blue Mage as a tank for the exact reason you seem to want all tanks sticking to Fending... I'd rather have a tank that makes use of Casting gear, or healer that uses Ranging/Scouting, so I can gear up and have variety in what role I play, than be locked to a single role because reasons... Having the option of tank or DPS is much stronger than tank or tank IMO...

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There's a few caveats to consider with this however. I'm not saying it's not possible, and in fact it would be a good thing for players. But there's a few things to consider if this path was taken.

1.) You now have 2 roles competing for the same gear. In content progression for raiding, tanks already usually get last picks when it comes to things like upgrade items, now throw in that they have to compete with a mage for gear too? They'll usually always get last pick. Things like Void Ark? Where there can be sometimes up to 5 mages in a party? It's not all that fair to have a tank competing that much for gear. You want to encourage people to play and keep playing tanks, not discourage them.

2.) It goes against the MMO concept of keeping players playing. The gear grind is there to keep players subscribed to the game longer which means more money for SE. If you suddenly start allowing people to gear 2 completely different roles at the same time, their time to gear is half what it could be. Half the time spent = potential loss of subs earlier.

So again, it'd be great for the players, giving them more flexibility but it does have drawbacks that need to be considered.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

If Yoshi-P had not chosen to stop creating a class that branch into 2 Jobs then it may have been more support. However, that is just how the river flows when ....
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conten...highlander.gif

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Lol, nooooo. We can all be friends! The 1 class -> 2 job route would definitely be ideal, but they could also just do 2 jobs that start at 30, and if enough people want it, it will happen!

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

It's sad to me, because I'm trying to unite both sides into asking for 2 jobs. Everyone seems to agree it could work, but some would rather argue than support it. :/



I'm not refuting it, but Auron is more of a mixed character, much like most the jobs are in that game, hence why they don't have definitive classes to begin with. I mean, he's literally a "warrior monk" if you wanted to get into it, but I won't deny that there are elements that are samurai-inspired. Even his Masamune was a western sword, so I think someone who argued that he's not a samurai would have some leverage.

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I personally would like to see them implement a skill tree system only for the new 4.0 jobs, which allow for basically multi-role jobs in a different way than the smn/sch and thus have Samurai be able to be a tank or melee dps. And then have red mage be either a melee dps or ranged dps.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I personally would like to see them implement a skill tree system only for the new 4.0 jobs, which allow for basically multi-role jobs in a different way than the smn/sch and thus have Samurai be able to be a tank or melee dps. And then have red mage be either a melee dps or ranged dps.

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I think something like this is kind of needed at this point. While I could fit plenty more skills into my hotbars and be fine, I'm seeing that most people are not comfortable with them adding new skills, but they should keep adding some kind of new facet to our jobs. This fits it, imo.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

I think something like this is kind of needed at this point. While I could fit plenty more skills into my hotbars and be fine, I'm seeing that most people are not comfortable with them adding new skills, but they should keep adding some kind of new facet to our jobs. This fits it, imo.

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It may work if they can some how make basic skills change base on the Job role.

For example,

Tank Role: 123 combo generates enmity but not as strong as DPS version damage rate.

DPS Role: 123 combo obtains a special buff stack or debuff while performing more damage than the Tank Role 123 combo.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

The question I ask you is either as a Tank or DPS what can a Samurai offer to the table that is unique and fresh and not a slight alteration of other abilities in the game possessed by other classes?

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Gonna ask this again. What can SAM offer that isn't already there. And simply won't be popular new job of expansion pack.

Well going on the 2 Soul idea. Much like with the PvP aspect of skills, perhaps they could still keep the skills exactly the same but give them different affects based on the stone equipped? Such as your basic 1-2-3 combo having higher potency but when equipped with the tank soul it generates more hate rather than higher damage? Same ranged attack, same combos (tho if positional removed for Tank soul), same skills. One idea could be "Channel",perhaps channeling the power of ancestors to aid you. As a DPS increase damage by X for X secs. As a tank, it boosts your defense for x secs.

It removes (i think) the need to balance two classes when they share the same skills all together. The difference then being the armor they equip but not the weapon. Stats would still need to be swapped of course but those are cheap. Just an idea to think about cus I do agree with both sides. Samurai could be a DPS or a Tank. This way we have no need for new skills or animations except for the limit break. Plus it would be kinda funny in a way to think about 3 Samurai (1 tank, 2 dps) in a party.

Thinking on this I guess we would need the base class again much like Arcanist which to me would include starting at level 1 again. Personally I wouldn't mind though.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Gonna ask this again. What can SAM offer that isn't already there? And simply won't be popular new job of expansion pack.

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Literally anything that isn't already there.

• Free-sequence ("open combo") weaponskills.
• Skill-altering oGCDs - Already present in NIN poison stances and DRG Life- and Power Surge, albeit minimally.
• Special/"named" Effects According to Sequence - already present in Mudra oGCDs, but now also through weaponskills, though perhaps still released through a CDed or resource-consuming oGCD, e.g. Twisting Dragon, Dragon Fang, (Battou), [Release], Ivy Cut -> <|Horizon's Divide|>
• Variable cleaves - Split damage, with bonus damage per mob to be hit, tapering off (perhaps while increasing TP costs up to double).
• Situational AoEs - Even "AoE" abilities may have additional, even single-target, uses.
• Stackable DoTs - Think "Ignite"... [a percentage of] the remaining potency from the last DoT is added to the new over the refreshed duration, while possibly retaining screenshotted additional effects and applying them to or stacking them with the new application's.
• Stackable Buffs - Already present in GL, but in this case aiming to achieve notable percentages of Haste or Crit, etc., for a specific rotational string.
• Sappable DoTs - DoT ticks are consumed by [certain] attacks, counting as increased damage on the attack itself.
• Mid-window Skills - After X seconds, deals a sappable DoT based on damage dealt over that duration, increasing vulnerability to your attacks until depleted. Releases, in themselves, function a lot like this.
• Specific Cooldown Manipulation - A stance that causes certain CDs to cool faster generally or from certain attacks or procs; using certain CDs affects others; direct synergy components between CDs.
• Potency as Mitigation - Attacking an enemy leaves diminishes its next attack against you by x damage or [modified] potency.
• Evasion or Deflection as tappable resource pools - a tactical, manipulable resource economy of parry and dodge.
• Mitigation as Damage Transfer - Continuing a portion or set potency of an enemy attack onto an enemy on the far side of you)
• Charge Systems - Carry three charges of a guaranteed parry skill, each with a 30-second cooldown. [Perhaps the more closely two charges are used to each other (within 15 seconds), the longer the latter charge's cooling takes.]
• Mixed Charge Systems - For instance, imagine if the above natural cooling supported only two charges, but another system was also consumable to power this ability when all charges are down, allowing potentially far more consecutive uses.
• Creating Resources through Weaponskills - Already present in Wrath/Abandon, but now more specific, e.g. <Blader> creates charges of [Steel Cage], consumable either for debilitation (unlocked via another Release) or mitigation (see above).
• Blink Strikes - Teleporting to the far, close, left, or right side of the enemy, or any mixture of the two, based on WASD/joystick commands mid-blink, during a specific attack.
• Ghosting - Enemies attacking you attack where you were for X seconds, or instead attack an afterimage or Decoy that you've left of yourself for up to X seconds or the unit's health. Possibly usable for dodging scripted cleaves.
• Weaponskill "Builds" - Each sequence of weaponskills builds a buff specific to that sequence, which in turn indirectly favors other sequences (perhaps even including the same sequence, to a specific/situational stacking point of that buff), allowing for macro-rotation.
• <I could do this all day...>

All great idea's I'm sure and some stuff I'd love to see but as we've seen with AST/DRK/MCH most of which is a mish mash of already existing jobs and has one small job defining gimmick to set it apart from it's peers...can we honestly expect SAM or even RDM to be any different and in that aspect will they really be bringing unique mechanics in their kit to set them apart from every other job out there?

Because honestly after the 3.0 jobs I highly highly doubt that to be the case. I've seen many a forum poster on here have much grander idea's then what the devs have seen to throw at us.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

All great idea's I'm sure and some stuff I'd love to see but as we've seen with AST/DRK/MCH most of which is a mish mash of already existing jobs and has one small job defining gimmick to set it apart from it's peers...can we honestly expect SAM or even RDM to be any different and in that aspect will they really be bringing unique mechanics in their kit to set them apart from every other job out there?

Because honestly after the 3.0 jobs I highly highly doubt that to be the case. I've seen many a forum poster on here have much grander ideas then what the devs have seen to throw at us.

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Expect? No. Need? Quite possibly.

I'd also expect that if rehashes continue, subscriptions will further decline. But need they? No.

It's kinda sad, really. You're absolutely right that the devs seem much less willing to go for distinction or the fully fleshed out ideas than much of the community, even if our posts do often lack a skeleton.