What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd

This is the part actually bugs me. Unless Azem shows up in the Pandemonium raid series what other reason should we meet him/her? With this arc ended, should we have any reason to deal with the unsundered?

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Well, not really. It is the end of that whole saga. Of course, they can always make more stories about them (though hopefully not involving more actual time travel).

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Originally Posted by linayar

Again, we don't have any connection to Zodiark at all. And what I said applied to Elidibus. He was going to kill us until we stopped him.

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It doesn’t matter about having a connection or not as i said before. It’s about them sticking to what they’ve said. They state that both are neither good nor evil, yet one is painted in a much better light and the other is disregarded entirely. Us having a connection doesn’t mean at the very least we can acknowledge what he did. Elidibus literally sacrificed himself for us and we can’t say anything about that? As for the latter comment, it would be a good side reason for it. Why keep a character around who is contributing nothing? At the very least have her go out in some style and importance.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It doesn’t matter about having a connection or not as i said before. It’s about them sticking to what they’ve said. They state that both are neither good nor evil, yet one is painted in a much better light and the other is disregarded entirely. Us having a connection doesn’t mean at the very least we can acknowledge what he did. Elidibus literally sacrificed himself for us and we can’t say anything about that?

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Both of them being "neither good nor evil" does not necessitate that their treatment should be equal.

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As for the latter comment, it would be a good side reason for it. Why keep a character around who is contributing nothing? At the very least have her go out in some style and importance.

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I'd say that's up to the writers and the writers alone. Death is not the only solution. The end of Endwalker, in fact, is one such solution with the entire Scions being "released" from needing to be in the story, but it leaves room for them to be added later if they want to.

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

There are a few things we can piece together. There were two things that could be done with the memory that was explained. 1 is that memories from locations fade away fairly quickly. 2 is to invade another persons soul to see memories. From what we can tell, the Ancients frown heavily upon invading another persons privacy. With Hermes former comrade deciding to die and Hermes never getting an answer for it, even when they were close, Hermes could of easily looked at anyones memories in their soul. Heck, Emet could of done that the moment you met. From the looks of it even if they have that power to do so, they refuse to look at memories in another soul for answers. For the way they take it, it could be considered as hard "R-ing" the individual if they do it forcefully or even willingly since anything could be seen.

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Or, she could have use her own memory if it's all about privacy. Beside the echo ting, they could also ask around Elpis. The researchers there aren't memory wiped, they have seen Emet, Hytlodaeus, and Venat accompanied by "azem's familiar", which serves as proof that Venat isn't lying. Heck, even one of them personally saw meteion and her sisters too, taking off to the sky. After that two facts, I doubt it's hard to convince Emet and Hytlo about the truth of Final Days. Might even able to convince Elidibus too, as he will be the key figures for Zodiark summoning.

She can easily let three trustworthy convocation members (emet, azem, elidibus) and chief of Bureau of the Architect to know about dynamis, meteion, and final days; but nooo because it would make no sense of the time loop we can't have that.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Agreed, and it is sheer nonsense that they never faced despair. Even Venat does not phrase it thus - she states they were merely spared from it for some time. Her issue was that they wouldn't be able to overcome the specific despair of their entire star dying and race dying out - despair which most sundered would easily succumb to, at the expense of their soul this time, because there is no creation magic buffer for the despair to act on. They put all their faith in the main character and a few heroes to guide them out and end up facing nothing like the devastation of the ancient world.

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This right here is my problem with the narrative too. The sundered world was being hit by just a fraction of the true Final Days, and yet people already despaired so much they keep spawning blasphemies. They need the WoL and scions to bail them from that situation time and time again, yet Venat act like everybody in etheryis are able to overcome their despair so much so they have a fighting chance. They're not. It always ended up with the WoL taking on everything. Like, how different it would be if the WoL doesn't exist? Oh... right, they go back in the past to create alternate timeline because they need the WoL to save them again XD

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Originally Posted by linayar

Both of them being "neither good nor evil" does not necessitate that their treatment should be equal.

I'd say that's up to the writers and the writers alone. Death is not the only solution. The end of Endwalker, in fact, is one such solution with the entire Scions being "released" from needing to be in the story, but it leaves room for them to be added later if they want to.

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Death may not be the only solution, but clearly keeping them alive is adding more problems. Considering the whole ultima thule plot point completely contradicts the theme of the expansion. I’ve stated it many times but it’s true and it’s just not right lol. Also, it’s arguable for your former point. Considering there’s always been some bias towards Hydaelyn, it would’ve been nice for once for there to be equality. Especially since they want to say time and time again not to judge a book by its cover. I’m still waiting for us to get some minions of the antagonists at any rate. Where’s our Emet,Hythlo,Zodiark,Elidibus minions hm? Seems there’s even some bias in regards to that. Venat gets hers for genociding the world, we should get some for the ascians then.

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Originally Posted by Shinimas

Venat not doing anything is a giant plothole. Just tell them... they would believe it. Then get all the gang together, build an Imperium-like spaceship (Ancients should've been able to pull it off), follow the GPS tracker from Venat and Exterminatus the hell out of Ultima Thule before Meteion had the time to prepare.

Also, you really want to tell me that a giant memory wiping device didn't record what and whom it operated on?

But I get it. We anime. So emotion, much tears. I just hope further stories will be a bit more logical, because this stuff falls apart the moment you activate your brain.

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I think Venat explained to our character why she cannot tell the other ascians about the memory wipe and Meteion. First was that it will also make Hermes remember and act against them again. Second is the fear of unintended consequence wherein changing the past might pave the way for a worse outcome than had already come out. All she can do was to make sure that our character gets to be the WoL and prepare events and tools that our character would need to have a fighting chance against Meteion.

I rather like Venat's character despite being a short lived character in the game. Her becoming emotional as Hydaelyn with those tears after we passed her test of strength was very nice :)

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Death may not be the only solution, but clearly keeping them alive is adding more problems. Considering the whole ultima thule plot point completely contradicts the theme of the expansion. I’ve stated it many times but it’s true and it’s just not right lol. Also, it’s arguable for your former point. Considering there’s always been some bias towards Hydaelyn, it would’ve been nice for once for there to be equality. Especially since they want to say time and time again not to judge a book by its cover. I’m still waiting for us to get some minions of the antagonists at any rate. Where’s our Emet,Hythlo,Zodiark,Elidibus minions hm? Seems there’s even some bias in regards to that. Venat gets hers for genociding the world, we should get some for the ascians then.

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Yup, especially since Emet and Hyth help secure victory at the end, and particularly since Zodiark is a major reason the world still exists some 12k years later. The WoL even apologises to Elidibus for what he had to do before the time travel. They were essentially made to play the part of villain for 12k years in the eyes of the sundered, all the while they were labouring to restore the world and their people, based on something she did with no real explanation that made sense to them. The writers have given them recognition in words, e.g. in various blurbs about them in cards and through ex dialogue from the Minstrel, but I'd like to see more.

I enjoyed the story, but if there was one thing I would change, I would have had the Final Days progress a little further. By the end of the campaign, only 2 zones (3 if you include Radz-at-Han) are in an Apocalypse state. I personally would have had several more zones (Including some pre-Endwalker zones) in Apocalypse mode to raise the stakes further and give more of a sense of urgency.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

It seems to be a recurring thing, so lets insert some plausible character deaths:

• Zenos in your body kills Alisaie and G'raha Tia before you can reach him.
  
  
• Alphinaud's dad dies when the trip to the Garlemald tower fails.
  
  
• Hydaelyn doesn't enchant your Azem stone. Urianger takes G'raha Tia's place, and Alphinaud takes on Meteion alone. You can summon everyone back for the finale but as you can't give them new bodies they'll fade away when the spell wears off. Every main Scion is dead.
  
  
• As Alisaie wasn't around to give Zenos a stern talking to he just slaughters his way through Sharlayan instead of making a deal. Krile, Tataru, basically every B character that was in Sharlayan at the time is killed by him to get to you.

I'll be honest, all of those would be far too much and I think the story would be worse for it. Doing one or two might be interesting if handled well, but I doubt it would majorly turn things around for people that didn't like Endwalkers story.

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*glares at that top one*
im going to have to say no - it would be too much

This thread makes me happy that at least some of us aren't gushing about how this is the bestest story ever because they cried during the cheap emotional manipulation scenes.