What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by anhaato

Christ... so this was all about a bad joke.

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It's legit impossible to tell anymore.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Yet there's hundreds of posts of people losing their minds that Venat did this or we did that. I'm not saying you have to like what she, but some here make me think they think they actually live in XIV.

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Pointing out how the game isn't consistent with the themes and messages it seeks to push elsewhere is hardly equal to people losing their minds. It's a story driven game, so people being invested in the narrative is to be expected. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that anyone here believes that they live in XIV unless you're referring to those who act like criticism of Venat is blasphemy towards an actual deity...?

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Then it's a shame they didn't. But it would lessen the impact of their tragedy if they were somehow just fine somewhere else. They did that enough with everyone else, I don't want this game becoming like Kingdom Hearts. Hell, Emet even looks like Xehanort in Elpis.

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When every single Scion died and came back mere minutes later I daresay the writers weren't overly concerned with the idea of lessening tragedy. Many of the single player Final Fantasy games also allowed antagonists to walk away largely unscathed by the end of their respective stories, so there's certainly precedent - and since personal tastes differ, there's plenty of us who care very little for the Scions and would much rather see some of the more nuanced characters continue to exist in some form.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Hence why what happened with Elpis is a tragedy. When I got to Amaurot, and even when I go back there, it was like reaching a certain location in Xenoblade 1: haunting. That there were even quests to do for these effectively ghosts made it worse. TBH, I still have other ideas on what the sound should have been. And while I'm not entirely against Meteion, there was still more I think they should have done, but they'll all be from other games I can't talk about without spoiling, and require rewrite after rewrite of XIV as a whole. If the game was a single player game from the start and not an mmo, I think it would have been the best Final Fantasy they've ever made.

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Stereotypical JRPG tropes are stereotypical JRPG tropes. I invest in fantasy settings because I like the fantasy elements and non-human races. Having them constantly destroyed and sidelined grows tiresome and can arguably be attributed to why World of Warcraft began to descend into irrelevancy.

I prefer darker endings in my video games, though only when they're consistent - and if they're going to bend over backwards at every turn to keep the main cast free of any lasting consequences then I don't feel it is unreasonable for the antagonists and grittier characters in general to not just be killed off again and again. The game is rapidly gaining a reputation of late as little more than a glorified visual novel with its focus on lengthy unskippable cutscenes involving burger eating and similar fluff.

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Originally Posted by TShimmer

After lurking this thread for a while, I just wanted to say that I'm quite glad it exists. I don't feel I'm very good at expressing myself well, specially on discussions of this level, but through Endwalker I always found myself constantly disappointed about its story developments, and some outright dumb character moments, sometimes even the lack of moments, like at the fight with Hydaelyn. Even shutting my brain off during Elpis didn't quite help feeling like a letdown. I know that at the end of the day, people that don't like a lot of the story of EW are in the minority, but I'm happy that minority exists, because otherwise I would be questioning what is wrong with me for not being as engaged as seemingly everyone else is into this story.

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Are you me? I have trouble expressing myself and feel I don't have much to add so I only ever lurk here but this thread has been a huge relief (most of the time). Knowing you're not alone really does help!

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

If the game was a single player game from the start and not an mmo, I think it would have been the best Final Fantasy they've ever made.

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Shadowbringers? Easily best Final Fantasy game ever made.

Endwalker? I still believe that in hindsight it's beaten out by Stranger of Paradise in terms logical influences underlying character actions, as well as the pure entertainment value of the characters who consume the most screentime.

"It's okay to support Emet's ethnic cleansing because it's really Venat's fault!" -this thread.

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Originally Posted by DisAstranagant

Are you me? I have trouble expressing myself and feel I don't have much to add so I only ever lurk here but this thread has been a huge relief (most of the time). Knowing you're not alone really does help!

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I really appreciate both of you speaking up! I actually do know another person who's posted in this thread/discussion a while ago in the past, and they've stressed out over it a bit, so I tried to reassure them that I was sure their posts were reassuring and comforting to lurkers who were reluctant to outright say something themselves. And now I am sure that the posts you have made now will be reassuring and comforting for them in turn. The circle continues!

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Originally Posted by Brinne

I really appreciate both of you speaking up! I actually do know another person who's posted in this thread/discussion a while ago in the past, and they've stressed out over it a bit, so I tried to reassure them that I was sure their posts were reassuring and comforting to lurkers who were reluctant to outright say something themselves. And now I am sure that the posts you have made now will be reassuring and comforting for them in turn. The circle continues!

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Indeed... as a certain someone put it:

https://i.imgur.com/hnj7CkZ.png

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Originally Posted by Brinne

I really appreciate both of you speaking up! I actually do know another person who's posted in this thread/discussion a while ago in the past, and they've stressed out over it a bit, so I tried to reassure them that I was sure their posts were reassuring and comforting to lurkers who were reluctant to outright say something themselves. And now I am sure that the posts you have made now will be reassuring and comforting for them in turn. The circle continues!

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Yeah, I certainly know how it feels to be nervous about chiming in to established conversations. It's nice to hear that people can find comfort in simply knowing they are not alone even if they're not always completely comfortable with vocalizing that.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

You know final fantasies tend to be very deep at times so it makes sense endwalker was too deep for a lot of people.

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Of the many things the plot has been accused of in this thread, that certainly hasn't been one. :p There's more complicated or convoluted FFs out there. I don't think EW is particularly complex. It's more that there is both an internal dissonance in some of its themes, and a rather larger one with SHB... to the point that one could even argue its "theme" ended up being find a way to justify Venat one way or another. I can enjoy deep plots but any "messaging" has to make sense in the context of the setting's particulars and not just be constant repetition of "this resembles that, so judge it the same way!" It also doesn't matter to me much though whether a story deals with "deep themes" or not in terms of whether I enjoy it or think it was well executed. Sometimes simplicity is a virtue.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Of the many things the plot has been accused of in this thread, that certainly hasn't been one. :p There's more complicated or convoluted FFs out there. I don't think EW is particularly complex. It's more that there is both an internal dissonance in some of its themes, and a rather larger one with SHB... to the point that one could even argue its "theme" ended up being find a way to justify Venat one way or another. I can enjoy deep plots but any "messaging" has to make sense in the context of the setting's particulars and not just be constant repetition of "this resembles that, so judge it the same way!"

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Yeah I stopped taking the story seriously when I got to The Plenty.

Ancient, infinitely wise and all powerful beings killed themselves because a space bird asked some questions.

Uh huh.

EDIT: No wait, the Ea were arguably worse.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean of the Ancients were wise and all powerful why did they fail to account for someone like Hermes or a creature like Meteion. For all their bluster, they were still very mortal and prone to blinding pride.

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First of all, I'm not talking about the Ancients.

Second of all, what do you mean "account for"? The Ancients had a whole system in place to stop people like Hermes from doing exactly what he did.

Hermes just lied to them and betrayed them. The hell has "pride" got to do with that?!