Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

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Originally Posted by Cedri

I think this thread can be condensed into a few main points...

For:
>It's a game
>Human rights symbolisim
>Happens in nature, why not here?

Against:
>Unethical
>Against an IRL religion
>Real World publicity

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I was talking about nature because someone said it is unnatural lol. Ethics are a mater of opinion (though there is usually a few core ethic codes everyone agrees to abide by regardless of faith). Ethics would be on both sides.

Publicity can be a good thing. In the United States if anything it seems to help a game. No idea about the rest of the world. Seems not as likely in Japan.

There are many lines we can discuss SM/SSM but there seems little point if SE just modified the name and system slightly to not be Marriage (marriage is not the only union pre-existing in the world, but might as well make a new lore fitting ritual). Then if you have a problem with the system it is because you have a problem directly with the existence of LG community being accepted.

At that point it is segregation which is not acceptable. Arguing a word that may or may not mean things at different points in its existence and in terms of the precedence it has set is logical but can be avoided.


SE can choose to take a stand for or against - which will of course have some sort of response (obviously SE is considering SSM they asked the community "what do you think? We might add it later").

I dont think anyone is forcing rather then saying "Hey its important to me "this group", or "my group" is accepted by you, please do it".

I keep skimming back and forth through this thread. . . . All I see is JP/NA. Seems like EU, for example, just doesn't make such a big deal out of SSM :rolleyes:

Anyhow, glad to see that 500+ people who frequent the forums are open-minded enough. That's like a whole server during the Tanaka period :p

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Originally Posted by odintius

Been saying it up to the company if they do it or not it’s their choice not ours in the matter. Instead you have people who like to force it upon companies that may hold traditional values to just change their view to match something they don’t agree with their philosophy, not being sensitive enough, whatever the case. This also can be applied to companies that do support ssm it none of straight person dam business if that company chose it to be that way as stated it there choice not anybody else’s.
They don’t see their just as guilty of doing the same actions as some any anti-gay groups in trying to force people to do something in what they believe in both are wrong in doing so and you will hear the same excuses as any other group the comes along with it. People tend to nitpick to the smallest details to match their views its human nature to. A video or a cut scene for this matter is something they may think seems sexually suggestive so that deems it gay or whatever term used and that deems the company supports it base off there comprehension of the subject.
Instead maybe the company acknowledge there is a group out there with different view that are this way give them a few cut scene etc. but don’t want to change their core view on marriage as man and women. As for square enix as a company who know what they will decide but if it goes against someone view as to something as marriage in a game seriously not going to stop me from playing it still.

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No one here is forcing them to do anything. Regardless of what the true intention was, they ASKED for feedback so they are getting it. Doesn't matter why they did it, they brought light to the issue (that could have been avoided) and then asked for our thoughts on the matter. The result is this thread, the thoughts of the community on this matter.

As I've told you before, if it was really an issue of their values or tradition of the company then they would have said "We're only allowing heterosexual marriage." and left it at that. They wouldn't have asked us for input.

If we get a response saying our feedback has been taken into consideration and they still think it's best not to include same sex marriage, then so be it. I can live with that as long as we have been heard. I will respect their final decision on the matter after feedback has been taken into consideration.

[QUOTE=Arcell;899194]No one here is forcing them to do anything. Regardless of what the true intention was, they ASKED for feedback so they are getting it. Doesn't matter why they did it, they brought light to the issue (that could have been avoided) and then asked for our thoughts on the matter. The result is this thread, the thoughts of the community on this matter.

As I've told you before, if it was really an issue of their values or tradition of the company then they would have said "We're only allowing heterosexual marriage." and left it at that. They wouldn't have asked us for input.

There are companies meaning more than just square enix believe it or not that allow a certain extent of both issue not just one way or highway approach to this right it called finding a common ground without totally breaching there values a 100%. Yes they said they want feed back and they got plenty of it from english forums some here and there but not on the scope from what I could see compare to these forums. Also note that I didn't completely discredit square enix on my last sentence noting that they still having decided meaning they are considering it maybe base on feedback from here >.>

After all i have seen and read so far in this topic i have come to the conclusion that SE should keep the marriage system under the umbrella "one day to come" and simply not introduce it. FC should be enough of a commitment, for people not to have to go and account cancel, over every other sentence. FC will provide more then a marriage in game to begin with, as well it would keep the way clear of drama. Personally i have a rule of thumb, which i learned from XI... i never invite a couple to LS or party, it has happened to often were in a battle one partner would play favorites causing a harder battle or a wipe.

Way i see it, best thing SE can do is. ([announcement] marriage system delayed indefinitely)
-It's not needed
-It causes dram

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Originally Posted by Cedri

Unethical was listed under Against because from following these posts I haven't seen THAT many posts in the For catigory that has stated that it was unethical to not allow SSM. However the word unethical has been tossed over at the For side multiple times.

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It's just a short note of mine and not meant as an offense! o.o
But I always felt that the pro argument of human rights was linked to the feeling of ethics. Many supporters said it is not "right" to forbid ssm which I, at least personally, saw as "it is unethical" to forbid it.
So I think one can't really say that on the supportive side (those among them that focuses on the human right aspect) there are not many posts claiming it being unequal. They may not have used the exact word but to me it always had the vibe of it.

But again, that is just personal AND (even though I support that, too!) the ingame SSM issue is not only about lgbt but also about the gender choice thingy of players that don't match real life.

And I still agree that marriage is not the key point of the game. It is actually just a ridiculusly small part of it I guess, a vanity feature.
So I think it's sad that if a fun feature is implemented it is limited and not everyone, who is paying actual money, can make use of it.
Even though they might have nothing to do with lgbt movements and just chose the "wrong" gender for aesthetics...

I hope they'll increase the primal weapon droprates in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

After all i have seen and read so far in this topic i have come to the conclusion that SE should keep the marriage system under the umbrella "one day to come" and simply not introduce it. FC should be enough of a commitment, for people not to have to go and account cancel, over every other sentence. FC will provide more then a marriage in game to begin with, as well it would keep the way clear of drama. Personally i have a rule of thumb, which i learned from XI... i never invite a couple to LS or party, it has happened to often were in a battle one partner would play favorites causing a harder battle or a wipe.

Way i see it, best thing SE can do is. ([announcement] marriage system delayed indefinitely)
-It's not needed
-It causes dram

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How do Free Companies have anything to do with marriage?

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Originally Posted by Arcell

How do Free Companies have anything to do with marriage?

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What's the purpose of one and what's the purpose of the other... WHEN applied to in game! They look very similar, difference being bonuses gained, and people involved.

again... I started saying who cares if they implement it some way or not... we can still have our own player made wedding at locations... so let them not implement it and we can still have marriages regardless of what they decide on... we should make a stand and say were married in game no matter what S-E or nay sayers say... seriously...

whatever happens know this o.o/ I will make sure people are happy and I will beat nay sayers with a lead pipe~

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

What's the purpose of one and what's the purpose of the other... WHEN applied to in game! They look very similar, difference being bonuses gained, and people involved.

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The purpose of Free Companies is to group a large number of players together who then work toward expanding the company and earning those bonuses.

Marriage is the joining of two people, bonuses have yet to be stated if there are any at all.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

The purpose of Free Companies is to group a large number of players together who then work toward expanding the company and earning those bonuses.

Marriage is the joining of two people, bonuses have yet to be stated if there are any at all.

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For FC: I agree, large group with at least 4 people to work together and get bonuses and content cleared.

For marriage: Joining of 2 people for the purpose of?? Clearing low man content?? And a possible bonus?? Maybe??

[puts on his Donald Trump voice]

BUT IF WE ALLOW SAME SEX MARRIAGE, IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO OUR MIQO'TE MARRYING ... EWES... AND... AND... DODOS. Remember that time we gave women the right to vote? Did it not lead directly to exceptions made for common MOBS? This cannot happen again! I will not live in a world governed by THE MARMOT AGENDA and all of its loose morals!

I kid, I kid.

Yoshida-san is correct, however. To even approach this subject in a game aimed at no less than 5 different cultures is to walk not on eggshells but broken glass!

The past ten years have seen a drastic change in same-sex marriage in some Western civilizations, but it's still very on-the-hush and under-the-rug in Japan if my understanding of CNN's doubtlessly spun stories on Takeshi Kitano's comments and the Disneyland ceremony incidents are of any merit.

I'm a firm believer in social equality and respect to concepts like freedom and consent (the latter of which is a construct largely ignored by most debates in the same-sex marriage circles).

Ironically, acceptance would probably come down to Eorzea's religions from a LORE standpoint as far as I'm concerned. Sure, in reality, marriage was a social construct that was co-opted into a religious covenant that has since seen a silent transition to a legal contract, but who says Eorzeans would do the same thing?

After all, Eorzea is based on Greek city states, and we all know how different the views on subjects like these were between entities like Sparta and Athens. Perhaps we could end up in a world where if you want to have a same-sex marriage in-game, you'd have to move the hell out of Ishgard to start with!

Whatever happens, it's not going to be taken lightly and it's going to either alienate some players or offend others.

Just my two gil.

EDIT: From now until the end of the game, anytime I RP "Anony Moose's" attitudes, he will assuredly rage at "the marmot agenda" every chance he gets.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

For FC: I agree, large group with at least 4 people to work together and get bonuses and content cleared.

For marriage: Joining of 2 people for the purpose of?? Clearing low man content?? And a possible bonus?? Maybe??

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Where does clearing low-man content even come from? Marriage isn't about clearing content. They're two completely different systems, you'll have to elaborate much further if you intend to prove your point.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

[puts on his Donald Trump voice]

BUT IF WE ALLOW SAME SEX MARRIAGE, IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO OUR MIQO'TE MARRYING ... EWES... AND... AND... DODOS. Remember that time we gave women the right to vote? Did it not lead directly to exceptions made for common MOBS? This cannot happen again! I will not live in a world governed by THE MARMOT AGENDA and all of its loose morals!

I kid, I kid.

Yoshida-san is correct, however. The past ten years have seen a drastic change in same-sex marriage in some Western civilizations, but it's still very on-the-hush and under-the-rug in Japan if my understanding of CNN's doubtlessly spun stories on Takeshi Kitano's comments and the Disneyland ceremony incidents are of any merit.

I'm a firm believer in social equality and respect to concepts like freedom and consent (the latter of which is a construct largely ignored by most debates in the same-sex marriage circles).

Ironically, acceptance would probably come down to Eorzea's religions from a LORE standpoint as far as I'm concerned. Sure, in reality, marriage was a social construct that was co-opted into a religious covenant that has since seen a silent transition to a legal contract, but who says Eorzeans would do the same thing?

After all, Eorzea is based on Greek city states, and we all know how different the views on subjects like these were between entities like Sparta and Athens. Perhaps we could end up in a world where if you want to have a same-sex marriage in-game, you'd have to move the hell out of Ishgard to start with!

Just my two gil.

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Achilles slept with Patroclus during the Trojan War :< yayyy Greeks~ they could love a woman and a man at the same time and not be hated upon!~ oh such epicurean bliss~ Personally I hate the Greek philosopher Epicurus but that's just me o_o

"In the Iliad, the relationship between Patroclus and Achilles is a vital part of the story. The relationship contributes to the overall theme of the humanization of Achilles. While the Iliad never explicitly stated as such, in later Greek writings, such as Plato's Symposium, the relationship between Patroclus and Achilles is held up as a model of romantic love. However, Xenophon in his Symposium, argued that it was inaccurate to label their relationship as romantic. Nevertheless, their relationship is said to have inspired Alexander the Great in his supposed romantic relationship with his close friend Hephaestion." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patroclus)

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Where does clearing low-man content even come from? Marriage isn't about clearing content. They're two completely different systems, you'll have to elaborate much further if you intend to prove your point.

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Believe his point is and im guessing here just that marriage doesn't really serve a actual function in a game compare to in real life.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Believe his point is and im guessing here just that marriage doesn't really serve a actual function in a game compare to in real life.

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Neither does killing dragons and making sole sushi. :/

Everyone enjoys their content differently. RP elements within an RPG I dont get how it is nothing but logical.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Neither does killing dragons and making sole sushi. :/

Everyone enjoys their content differently. RP elements within an RPG I dont get how it is nothing but logical.

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You could do that in game without the marriage even added to the game if going to RP technically even with it there you could still RP also have your ls members help out and setup ceremony and do it yourself.

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Originally Posted by odintius

You could do that in game without the marriage even added to the game if going to RP technically even with it there you could still RP also have your ls members help out and setup ceremony and do it yourself.

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Of course - but why pretend when I can do the action. Like talking about rping and actually getting on my gear and doing it. I dont talk about fighting a dragon and getting his skin to make a powerful armor.

SE is supporting the elements.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Believe his point is and im guessing here just that marriage doesn't really serve a actual function in a game compare to in real life.

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Bingo!! No purpose what so ever!

While neither does "killing dragons and making sole sushi. :/", i see NO ONE currently making a fuss about it!

marriage in video games, people and there priorities. wtf?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Of course - but why pretend when I can do the action. Like talking about rping and actually getting on my gear and doing it. I dont talk about fighting a dragon and getting his skin to make a powerful armor.

SE is supporting the elements.

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Because your actually pretending to be married in a game that actually doesn't have a binding contract in real world >.>

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Originally Posted by odintius

Because your actually pretending to be married in a game that actually doesn't have a binding contract in real world >.>

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That's why it's called role play

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Originally Posted by odintius

Because your actually pretending to be married in a game that actually doesn't have a binding contract in real world >.>

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I dont go to jail for killing people in the game either, then again I'm not pretending I'm really killing a person.

Marriage is to add RP elements, I want my character to be a husband fighting for his land - boom get married got my story. (I dont really care, but it was an example lol).

Also to separate real world issues with marriage from the game it has come up quite a few times to just change the name and background lore.

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Originally Posted by Nix

That's why it's called role play

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And that what i posted a page back he asked but why pretend then im just saying...

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Bingo!! No purpose what so ever!

While neither does "killing dragons and making sole sushi. :/", i see NO ONE currently making a fuss about it!

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No one's arguing that marriage itself isn't a purely ceremonial thing and serves no true in-game purpose other than itself. The entire argument is about equality. Why should a feature of the game be restricted based on character genders? Some people want marriage, some people don't. That's not the issue. The issue is the restriction.

what if you marry some fool you don't like anymore? Can you get divorced? Do you have to split half your gil with the other idiot for the rest of your life? Can the other person sue for your mog house furniture?

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Originally Posted by Morticous

what if you marry some fool you don't like anymore? Can you get divorced? Do you have to split half your gil with the other idiot for the rest of your life? Can the other person sue for your mog house furniture?

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At most you could npc the ring for a few hundred gil and spend the money you made on mulled tea. Much less messy and no attorneys!

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Originally Posted by Nix

At most you could npc the ring for a few hundred gil and spend the money you made on mulled tea. Much less messy and no attorneys!

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when PVP is in game can we PK our ExWife/Hubby? Will be thrown in jail?

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Originally Posted by Morticous

what if you marry some fool you don't like anymore? Can you get divorced? Do you have to split half your gil with the other idiot for the rest of your life? Can the other person sue for your mog house furniture?

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Probably.

No you would never split resources the only reason why that happens in real life is because usually someone (female mostly) stays home to take care of the house but never learns to do a job to make the standard of living they had previously got used to (the job they take (house work) is limited to the relationship). In a video game everyone has the same opportunity, if you separate and you want them to share their resources please call a GM so they can tell you no.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

when PVP is in game can we PK our ExWife/Hubby? Will be thrown in jail?

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Only if killing anyone else in PvP is also a jail offense.

I would get married in a game if I actually had physical relationship and she was right next to me playing the game other than that its all sex text chat >.>. If they add the items needed there not going to restrict it because being gay get the gear and RP your parts with an real ppl to witness it and perform the ceremony for you?

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Originally Posted by odintius

I would get married in a game if I actually had physical relationship and she was right next to me playing the game other than that its all sex text chat >.>. If they add the items needed there not going to restrict it because being gay get the gear and RP your parts with an real ppl to witness it and perform the ceremony for you?

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I imagine they will have a ceremony that doesnt check your sex, and wedding gear you can choose to equip.

If I get married can i still visit the Miners guild and get a touch for my gil from the dancing Miqote? Will my adventure friend still talk to me dirty?

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Originally Posted by odintius

I would get married in a game if I actually had physical relationship and she was right next to me playing the game other than that its all sex text chat >.>. If they add the items needed there not going to restrict it because being gay get the gear and RP your parts with an real ppl to witness it and perform the ceremony for you?

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That's why there was a call for it to be player-run, like it was changed to in XI (used to be GM run) - This way players could buy all their supplies from a chest and then trade with their significant other and rp the ceremony with a few friends, was pretty neat!

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Originally Posted by Nix

That's why there was a call for it to be player-run, like it was changed to in XI (used to be GM run) - This way players could buy all their supplies from a chest and then trade with their significant other and rp the ceremony with a few friends, was pretty neat!

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That I can agree with 100% if player run you put the effort into it.

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Originally Posted by odintius

That I can agree with 100% if player run you put the effort into it.

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I'd really prefer it to be player run - have the venue, have the equips in a box you can buy from and that way anyone can marry their partner. The whole booking lottery thing they had at the start of XI was suuuuch a freaking drag lol

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Originally Posted by Nix

I'd really prefer it to be player run - have the venue, have the equips in a box you can buy from and that way anyone can marry their partner. The whole booking lottery thing they had at the start of XI was suuuuch a freaking drag lol

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Honestly companies should just make it player run put the items in that are need and hands off from there and let the player handle it from there.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Honestly companies should just make it player run put the items in that are need and hands off from there and let the player handle it from there.

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I can agree with that!

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Originally Posted by Nix

I'd really prefer it to be player run - have the venue, have the equips in a box you can buy from and that way anyone can marry their partner. The whole booking lottery thing they had at the start of XI was suuuuch a freaking drag lol

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I like rp but im lazy I would like the option of a guided npc experience lol. Like you choose if you want npc or player driven ritual. Just ensure the npc ritual doesnt use the classic lines associated with christian marriage (good place to write dialog off lore of the game).

Never got why they made it GM ran :/

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Originally Posted by odintius

That I can agree with 100% if player run you put the effort into it.

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Idea, the 2 people who want to have the ceremony need to run a quest or some type or a 2 person dungeon fighting and upon completion and finding all the pieces of something. The ceremony can go on, with out care of the character ganders.

- Complete quest
- Get CS naming [player a] and [player b] sword brother's/sister's, or something of the sort
- Give them a binding item
- ???
- Profit