Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

male roe at min: 7'0.1" female roe at max: 7'3.7"
barely an inch
male elezen at min: 6'4.4" female elezen at max: 6'6.8"
barely an inch
male highlander at min: 6'0.2" female highlander at max: 6'1.8"
barely an inch

I could go on, but like why bother lmao

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Oh, you got me! You can be a short male, but ONLY if you play these (unpopular) races that are still SUPER TALL even at minimum! And only if ALL of the female players of that race play on maximum height.Ignore the fact that 100% height female characters are pretty rare. Wow! How did I not see this before! I wish I was as smart as HollowedDoll.

Sorry, not sorry. I'm feeling saucy today.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Remember when mentioning that fact was a slippery slope?
But lol, not that I really had a horse in this race to begin with, I do kinda like that they embraced that irl counterpart scheme with the Viera. Cant call it 'realistic' but I guess that its loosly like reality.

Plus like ive argued on the FemHroth thread, I like diversity, and the Males being shorter then the females is a neat new thing.

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Diversity is awesome. I was always in the "I want tall bunny" camp because I want to be t a l l e s t, but even I can concede it was just a selfish want and it's better that there was a race that was actually different. Even then, 6'1" is tall so I'm content.

Still no mentions for headgear?

Please SE, finish these races. It's so disheartening not getting to see iconic AF headpieces (RDM, DRG, etc) as well as new gear that's come out. Aura horns just clip though, please let the ears clip through. It doesn't look bad (current hoods look amazing) and it doesn't have to make sense (again Aura horns through small holes while the horns are huge and not even).

Please just let us have our ears and headgear. :(

Female viera (Male maybe?) are getting Aestician hairstyles (look at the Ninja AF gear preview !)

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Originally Posted by Senn

Yeah, there were a few against it (mostly coming from the same few people), but just like you I also like how the dev team embraced the whole irl rabbit dimorphism. I feel like I got everything I wanted out of male viera. They are classically handsome bishounen, slim, and are just a touch shorter than the females. I just keep getting what I want and it feels amazing. :cool:

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I pray that I have Half Your Luck with FemHroths....whenever the fudge we get them.

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Originally Posted by BiddyBatnana

Female viera (Male maybe?) are getting Aestician hairstyles (look at the Ninja AF gear preview !)

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so that‘s not a racial hairstyle?!

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I pray that I have Half Your Luck with FemHroths....whenever the fudge we get them.

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I'll send some of my luck your way. Some of the art in the female hrothgar thread look great and I hope you guys get something similar to that. The graphics team has proven themselves time and time again, so I have hopes the female hrothgar will look nice.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

so that‘s not a racial hairstyle?!

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From the front it looks identical to Modern Aesthetics – Ponytails:

https://ffxivcollect.com/assets/hair...cfd3b9f517.png

I'm quite disappointed with the height range they went with as well as the face options showcased. Definitely little interest for me in the race. I'll play around with the benchmark tomorrow but none of it really fit my tastes.

I think it confirms that the comparison I was linking to did indeed have a max height Viera male - they're about 2 inches shorter, which isn't a massive difference, hence seeming more or less the same if you extrapolate the percentile differences in the models to deduce the difference from a max height female. It also seemed to be the more accurate of these comparisons, as some had them at more drastic differentials.

A pity they didn't go with the same height or the idea of a wider slider. So much for Elezen perfected when it comes to the males.

Roll on CC updates for the existing races, I guess. For the duration I continue to play, I'll be sticking with Au Ra and Midlanders... maybe Elezen if they one day get rid of all the awkwardness. Highlanders if they get better faces/eyebrows.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I mean, it's kind of petty to be disappointed over 2 inches.

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::: opens mouth:::

......

:::closes mouth, walks away:::

Still no sign of Hrothgirls, I feel viera is way too popular for the wrong reasons I never asked for this and the race is quite shallow. Gimme Hrothgirls

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'm quite disappointed with the height range they went with as well as the face options showcased. Definitely little interest for me in the race. I'll play around with the benchmark tomorrow but none of it really fit my tastes.

I think it confirms that the comparison I was linking to did indeed have a max height Viera male - they're about 2 inches shorter, which isn't a massive difference, hence seeming more or less the same if you extrapolate the percentile differences in the models to deduce the difference from a max height female. It also seemed to be the more accurate of these comparisons, as some had them at more drastic differentials.

A pity they didn't go with the same height or the idea of a wider slider. So much for Elezen perfected when it comes to the males.

Roll on CC updates for the existing races, I guess. For the duration I continue to play, I'll be sticking with Au Ra and Midlanders... maybe Elezen if they one day get rid of all the awkwardness. Highlanders if they get better faces/eyebrows.

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I don't really care one way or another about the height of male viera, but people like you and others should be allowed to be disappointed without being called insecure or whatever else people come up with to try and be smug about it.

Clearly this was a popular enough request for them to implement it though, so I wonder what this means for female Hrothgar? I don't really keep up with twitter or other social media so I really don't know which way it's trending right now, but I assume the sexed up more humanized fan art is more popular?

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Clearly this was a popular enough request for them to implement it though, so I wonder what this means for female Hrothgar? I don't really keep up with twitter or other social media so I really don't know which way it's trending right now, but I assume the sexed up more humanized fan art is more popular?

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https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1500_.jpg

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1500_.jpg

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I just woke up so you'll have to walk me through this slowly, the playboy bunny? :p

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I don't really care one way or another about the height of male viera, but people like you and others should be allowed to be disappointed without being called insecure or whatever else people come up with to try and be smug about it.

Clearly this was a popular enough request for them to implement it though, so I wonder what this means for female Hrothgar? I don't really keep up with twitter or other social media so I really don't know which way it's trending right now, but I assume the sexed up more humanized fan art is more popular?

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Cheers, I appreciate that.

Frankly, the claims about "insecurity" are the usual playbook of a sizeable number frequenting sites like Twitter etc., so I am not surprised by it, but equally, it's also par the course for certain elements on this forum. But I agree, it has little to do with "insecurities".

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Originally Posted by Rokke

For events gone awry? Oh yeah.
For numbers related things? Sometimes.
For male viera? Not anywhere near as much as you seem to be implying. Viera were contenders for being implemented back in 3.0 (if you have the HW art book theres a page or 2 with the concepts), the art team has had ideas of what male viera should look like for a long, long time. From there they just needed to come up with something Yoshi approved. He said in the past they they'd be a cross between male miqote and male elezen. Look at the benchmark preview- male viera very much fall between male miqote and male elezen.

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Their height was never implied in that art work. To dismiss the possibility that they are drawing feedback from sources they themselves have acknowledged drawing on because there was art from 2015 is rather myopic. Although they had a broad outline ready for the race, the details about the facial picks and height were likely not set in stone.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Niche aesthetics tend to get more embraced because they are niche, they rarely happen thus when they do happen people gravitate towards them as more interesting, you could probably count on your hands how many MMOs have a single race of theirs have the max height male be shorter than the max height female, it is very uncommon to have such a thing.

6ft 1in is not considered short in the majority of the world flat out a max height Male Viera would be considered tall worldwide just in the fantasy world of FFXIV they are shorter than than half the other male options but still taller than Midlander which you seem fine with so this whole height thing really does seem petty when it is the actual aesthetics of the race as whole that bother you and not the height itself.

And you know what, that is a fine preference to have.

But you dismissed male Viera on their height and that is what people find petty about it.

Also I too hope they add more beard and facial options because I find FFXIV is laughably lacking in that department compared to everyone else and it feels worse when they advertise the game with a character who has stubble we can't even use >_>

(I'm 6ft 1in and would be considered tall as well and yes I too prefer men taller but I have always been open to shorter men as well because variety)

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In essence, what you are saying is that it's "petty" if one has a preference for the typical sexual dimorphism in height (but I am guessing that doesn't run in the opposite direction, i.e. those who strongly wanted them to be shorter.) I'll be rather surprised if you say it's petty in both cases, as the latter didn't really seem to go challenged except by a minority of posters in this thread (which, to be abundantly clear, is not necessarily reflective of the proportions within the broader playerbase, where I'd expect which view is majority and which the minority to flip.) I'll agree with those saying it's not exactly a huge difference.

On the point of niche aesthetics being embraced because they are niche - perhaps it is the case for those who actually embrace them, but again, something being "niche" in and of itself usually won't suffice to draw much positive attention to it. Roegadyn females and Elezen (due to their proportions when compared to your typical elf) are both fairly "niche", and yet number between 1 to 3% of the playerbase, respectively. I don't imagine Viera males will settle at such figures, as they are designed to be aesthetically pleasing in other respects, but I sincerely doubt any high quality sort of polling/surveying will find that any substantial portion of their future players is drawn to them solely on account of being a "niche". It's not even prominent enough in their case to matter. It does annoy me a bit, but the bigger issue for me is that I don't really like their facial design.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

it's really not a big deal Theo will fanta to one anyway dont mind him.

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A rather bold assumption.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I just woke up so you'll have to walk me through this slowly, the playboy bunny? :p

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The one and the same.

And I'm also predicting that there will be MViera players later who will go on the forums about how they're getting offended by people calling them Playboy Bunnies.
Still too early to know. just something I'm expecting to happen sooner or later.

Okay, it's some very experimental math and we will know for sure tomorrow, but I was curious so I went ahead and tried to estimate male Viera minimal height.
In benchmark the feault value is 58/100 and is 180.5. 100/100 is 186.5 (as shown somewhere in this very thread).

https://i.imgur.com/pMTgbch.png
https://i.imgur.com/w3QE4AQ.png

What I did is I basically counted what would be the height value at 58/100 for other races, checked how it scales in character creator to know if it matches (it does), and from there started picking value for minimal height that would give 180.5 at 58% in result. The closest value ended up being 172.2cm. 172.3 works as well with 180.54 as 58% value. (the basic formula was minHeight + range*0.58). There were some other values peakable in creator, like 173cm for 6/100, which I also experimented with in formula, and it seems to scale fairly accurately.

Again, this is highly experimental and we will find out how accurate it is tomorrow. x)

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

The one and the same.

And I'm also predicting that there will be MViera players later who will go on the forums about how they're getting offended by people calling them Playboy Bunnies.

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So are you saying female Hrothgar art as sexed up humanized playboy bunnies is more popular or is this about Viera?

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Originally Posted by Yencat

So are you saying female Hrothgar art as sexed up humanized playboy bunnies is more popular or is this about Viera?

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ah, my bad.
It's about Viera.
I might've misread your comment a little seeing how it got a little confusing. ^^'

I guess I thought you were talking about how the sexed up more humanoid were a more favourit (M Viera) seeing how we haven't heard anything about Female Hroths yet.

So I might've been responding to something completely unrelated to what I sent. ^^'

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

ah, my bad.
It's about Viera.
I might've misread your comment a little seeing how it got a little confusing. ^^'

I guess I thought you were talking about how the sexed up more humanoid were a more favourit (M Viera) seeing how we haven't heard anything about Female Hroths yet.

So I might've been responding to something completely unrelated to what I sent. ^^'

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Ah seems so! But no, I'm not surprised or shocked Viera (male or female) look the way they do and why they're popular.

But they said before that they took inspiration for male Viera from fan art and fan discussion and going by comments here over time it seems that on certain platforms it trended towards the shorter males, and that's what they ended up going with in the end.

I was curious what this could mean for female Hrothgar as I don't know what type of fanart is popular for them, ie. the stronger muscular looking ones or the "prettier" humanized variant. :)

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Ah seems so! But no, I'm not surprised or shocked Viera (male or female) look the way they do and why they're popular.

But they said before that they took inspiration for male Viera from fan art and fan discussion and going by comments here over time it seems that on certain platforms it trended towards the shorter males, and that's what they ended up going with in the end.

I was curious what this could mean for female Hrothgar as I don't know what type of fanart is popular for them, ie. the stronger muscular looking ones or the "prettier" humanized variant. :)

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I've only seen the art posted in the Female Hrothgar thread.
Most there seem to be the more stronger looking ones.
But I've seen several asian MMOs with beastial races where the males are big bulky beasts where the female counterparts are slim with more human features, almost how Miqote looks like.
However, I do predict the females won't be as strong looking as the males but still got clearly visible stronger structure compared to the other females. Kind of like how Female Roe are.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I've only seen the art posted in the Female Hrothgar thread.
Most there seem to be the more stronger looking ones.
But I've seen several asian MMOs with beastial races where the males are big bulky beasts where the female counterparts are slim with more human features, almost how Miqote looks like.
However, I do predict the females won't be as strong looking as the males but still got clearly visible stronger structure compared to the other females. Kind of like how Female Roe are.

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Yeah, I guess we'll see when they get around to showing them off :) Bit sad that there's always one side ending up getting disappointed because of how rigid the character creator is, but that's the way it is right now.

I'm just happy I'm finally getting more hairstyles to choose from after so long, and the new Dancer AF armor looks great too, good times.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

At least if the old ones are made available, then there's more hope that the new ones might be made available too.

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i guess they figured it out somehow. i‘m positive they‘ll be added along other races in the future! let‘s wait and see

im just hopeful the whole argument „male viera“ cost females their hairstyles can come to an end!

I’m pretty petty but I personally love seeing the “make viera tall bros” crowd be disappointed. So many of you were aggressively implanting your ideals on a race that ultimately wasn’t for you at all.

I’m super happy I get to be slim and 5’9

They are perfect and I think I’ll be maining a bunny boy dancer for a long time

Q - Will there be a release for Lyse's costume (from Stormblood), as well as additional Viera hairstyles?
A - As seen today, you saw new, additional hairstyles on Viera so yes there will be. we are actually changing the specification on both Viera and Hrothgar right now in order to ensure we can easily add more hairstyles to both of them in the future, so the process is still underway. It will take some time for that to happen so please be patient.

As for Derplander's stubble that was in high demand, we are actually experimenting on various implementation methods right now, and it feels like we're brute-forcing it...but we are indeed testing out right now so please stay tuned for further updates. As for Lyse's costume, due of its different specifications, we felt that her costume is not properly tuned for character glamour so the character team will have to adjust them further before we can think of whether to release them.

YoshiP then proceeded to explain how the rigging for Lyse's costume being done differently and will cause major clipping issues if they release it in their current form

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

A - As seen today, you saw new, additional hairstyles on Viera so yes there will be. we are actually changing the specification on both Viera and Hrothgar right now in order to ensure we can easily add more hairstyles to both of them in the future

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https://media0.giphy.com/media/dYTfJ...-downsized.gif

Daily reminder that you can be happy you got what you wanted without having to dunk on the folks that are disappointed they didn't get what they were hoping for.

God knows y'all wouldn't want to see the taller bun-boy crowd crowing from the rooftops and dunking on the other side for wanting male Viera to be shorter than their female counterparts.

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

Q - Will there be a release for Lyse's costume (from Stormblood), as well as additional Viera hairstyles?
A - As seen today, you saw new, additional hairstyles on Viera so yes there will be. we are actually changing the specification on both Viera and Hrothgar right now in order to ensure we can easily add more hairstyles to both of them in the future, so the process is still underway. It will take some time for that to happen so please be patient.

As for Derplander's stubble that was in high demand, we are actually experimenting on various implementation methods right now, and it feels like we're brute-forcing it...but we are indeed testing out right now so please stay tuned for further updates. As for Lyse's costume, due of its different specifications, we felt that her costume is not properly tuned for character glamour so the character team will have to adjust them further before we can think of whether to release them.

YoshiP then proceeded to explain how the rigging for Lyse's costume being done differently and will cause major clipping issues if they release it in their current form

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But her hairstyle... There was a huge missed opportunity to ask about Lyse & Hilda's hairstyle which have both been requested for years- I wish upon all the stars we will get her hairstyle & Hilda's. Big sad noone asked :/
(both Hilda & Lyse's hair would look gorgeous on Viera & the other races)

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Daily reminder that you can be happy you got what you wanted without having to dunk on the folks that are disappointed they didn't get what they were hoping for.

God knows y'all wouldn't want to see the taller bun-boy crowd crowing from the rooftops and dunking on the other side for wanting male Viera to be shorter than their female counterparts.

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i agree, i think some people of both of the extremes (very tall and very short crowd) were pretty ugly sometimes.

i personally am pretty happy they didn‘t go either way, for me ideally i‘d wished them to be the same size. but since they are just a bit shorter it doesn‘t really bug me that much! (they are still taller than hyur and miqo‘te, which was my number 1 concern of them being very short)

in the end, it was to be forseen that one or the other will be disappointed. let‘s hope we‘ll get some character upgrades next, so both worlds can be pleased.

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Originally Posted by artypartytime

*snip*

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Much like those pushing for them to be shorter were doing so pretty aggressively, and kept feeling the need to attribute any opposition to it to "insecurities" etc. However, the biggest dealbreaker for me (without trying it on the benchmark) is their facial options.

Dunno if this has been posted here yet but:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...w8egoxaa71.png

This is a female Viera with what appears to be one of the modern aesthetics ponytails!

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Originally Posted by Lauront

In essence, what you are saying is that it's "petty" if one has a preference for the typical sexual dimorphism in height (but I am guessing that doesn't run in the opposite direction, i.e. those who strongly wanted them to be shorter.) I'll be rather surprised if you say it's petty in both cases, as the latter didn't really seem to go challenged except by a minority of posters in this thread (which, to be abundantly clear, is not necessarily reflective of the proportions within the broader playerbase, where I'd expect which view is majority and which the minority to flip.) I'll agree with those saying it's not exactly a huge difference.

On the point of niche aesthetics being embraced because they are niche - perhaps it is the case for those who actually embrace them, but again, something being "niche" in and of itself usually won't suffice to draw much positive attention to it. Roegadyn females and Elezen (due to their proportions when compared to your typical elf) are both fairly "niche", and yet number between 1 to 3% of the playerbase, respectively. I don't imagine Viera males will settle at such figures, as they are designed to be aesthetically pleasing in other respects, but I sincerely doubt any high quality sort of polling/surveying will find that any substantial portion of their future players is drawn to them solely on account of being a "niche". It's not even prominent enough in their case to matter. It does annoy me a bit, but the bigger issue for me is that I don't really like their facial design.

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Had to bold that last part because this is something I can understand and go yeah that's fair freely express that dislike of the design decisions as a whole have created something your not a fan of, that is ok to have.

But

It looks petty that the height alone is enough to deter both of you WHEN you are perfectly fine with playing Midlanders who are shorter than male Viera, so the height isn't actually a problem but something else, something like the aesthetics of the race as a whole are not to your liking maybe.

Guess what that is fine to have that preference

Had to bold it seems you missed that part in that post where you are fine to hate something over the whole design but it only comes across as petty to dismiss the race over the height especially when you are fine with Midlanders who are shorter.

Also petty =/= insecure where ever did I say I thought you/Theo were insecure, silly Lauront putting words in people's mouths.


Also I never cared much for the whole height debate beyond I hope they weren't going to be Lalafel small or Roe big I.e. no extreme diamorphism like Au Ra had being repeated.

Also bold of you to assume I would use Twitter at all , reddit(I have like 4/5 posts lol) , facebook(10 years without touching going strong :P) , suffice to say you are making a lot of assumptions about me yourself, careful now :P

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Dunno if this has been posted here yet but:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...w8egoxaa71.png

This is a female Viera with what appears to be one of the modern aesthetics ponytails!

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Yes, someone has posted about it & shared the MGP hair the viera was wearing

Well..
Honestly as long as I could be 5’9 or 5’10 I knew I’d be happy

And yeah maybe they were aggressive but frankly I think masculine aesthetics generally get priority. So sometimes when you are accustomed to never getting things that reflect you, the tendency is to push a little harder when given the opportunity.

This is a great race that kind of steps outside the box.

Having women be taller is not just niche, it adds to the complexity of the race, it makes the race as a whole more unique. Not just in final fantasy but in most mmorpgs. It adds to the fantasy.

Creating another taller male shorter female race isn’t interesting. It’s been done and frankly viera we’re the perfect race to do it to.

I would not say it adds to the complexity of the race. Overall it is just height. Now if we gave them a gut slider that would add some complexity. :P

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Originally Posted by Awha

I would not say it adds to the complexity of the race. Overall it is just height. Now if we gave them a gut slider that would add some complexity. :P

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Actually there are many factors that make races interesting.
Viera have a sort of Amazonian background. Powerful yet Feminine. Not needing of the males of their race to do things for them.

To design their males to be visually more powerful sort of diminishes that background. Height is one of those factors in story telling that use to show power/authority

So yes height adds to their story

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Originally Posted by artypartytime

Actually there are many factors that make races interesting.
Viera have a sort of Amazonian background. Powerful yet Feminine. Not needing of the males of their race to do things for them.

To design their males to be visually more powerful sort of diminishes that background. Height is one of those factors in story telling that use to show power/authority

So yes height adds to their story

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sure but when the height difference is 5-7 cm does it really matter

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...97bgoxaa71.png
HOLY CRAP A HROTHGAR WITH A HELM.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

sure but when the height difference is 5-7 cm does it really matter

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Objectively speaking, I'd say no because they're still lorewise considered more ruthless than females, whom most likely set their height to minimum, and would still tower over the ocean of Miqos, fem Au Ras, potatoes, and Midlanders anyways .....but if it means that much to people I don't see what's wrong in being happy about it, bunny boys existing is already a big thing

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...97bgoxaa71.png
HOLY CRAP A HROTHGAR WITH A HELM.

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Can't they wear most helmets? I seen some running around.

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Originally Posted by jetfire117

Can't they wear most helmets? I seen some running around.

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They can only wear the ones that replace the head entirely, this one and the Paglawhatever are the only helms that show the face that they can wear. Now I wonder if it has a /visor