How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

Anyone getting sick of how obnoxious things are for Dragoon.

nope

10char

I have leveled BLM to 60. I have, since then, changed my mind on DRG feeling "obnoxious".
stillnotgonnaplayitindungeonscrewdoomspikespam

Need help here and i dont remember which is better H/ROT vs H with DS spamm. not counting Geir. just H/ROT vs H and DS spam.

Heavy Thrust -> Ring of Thorns -> Doom Spike spam until Heavy Thrust about to fall off, repeat.

Yeah. AOE is exactly the same as 2.0. Nothings changed.

yeah i just do H/ROT spam like it said in the early Dragoon forum. just asking since may be with the geir being an AOE.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

yeah i just do H/ROT spam like it said in the early Dragoon forum. just asking since may be with the geir being an AOE.

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Geir is free damage, but it's hardly an AoE you can count on, since you can only use 3 max per minute, and you need to use single target combo as the prereqs.

@Dervy

I'm using Antiquated Brionac atm, is it a bad choice? Since I recalled seeing you that the best weapon atm isn't Brionac, but I'm not sure.

EDIT : nvm, I found it, it was one of those ariyala things for progression. My god I bought the wrong stuffs but still, I'm not doing savages at the moment because I don't have a group.

Buying the Antiquated Brionac is not a bad choice - even if you had been clearing A4S from the very beginning, you would still not have any guarantee of the Gordian spear for 8 weeks. I wouldn't worry about it not being the absolute BIS - it's the best you can get for now. If you've just got the spear this week though, I'd recommend getting the ring this coming reset week then the chest right after so that you can have an item a week with your esoterics for a few weeks.

Oh you're right, a ring, I was saving to buy weapon > chest > ring, but that'd make me a total 3 week to get all 3 with nothing to buy at 2nd week.

I can buy weapon > ring > chest with an upgrade each week. Thanks!

Is it even matter if I use gk not like this

HT - ID - [BOTD] - DI - CT - 4TH - PH - TT - VP - FT - [GK] - 4TH
--- DO NOT USE GEIRSKOGUL HERE
HT - ||| ID - DI - CT - 4TH - PH ||| - TT - VP - FT - 4TH - [GK]

But smth like this? I am currently doing that due to fact I cant doublebuff inbetween gcd and I have one of my jumps between FT - 4TH. I dont think this usage of GK is any worst but still please advise

HT - ID - [BOTD] - DI - CT - 4TH - PH - TT - VP - FT - 4TH - [GK]
--- DO NOT USE GEIRSKOGUL HERE
HT - ||| ID - DI - CT - 4TH - PH ||| - TT - VP - FT - 4TH - [GK]

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Originally Posted by Dervy

HT - ID - [BOTD] - DI - CT - 4TH - PH - TT - VP - FT - [GK] - 4TH

--- DO NOT USE GEIRSKOGUL HERE
HT - ||| ID - DI - CT - 4TH - PH ||| - TT - VP - FT - 4TH - [GK]

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Probably I'm missing something here. Did you usually manage to get a GK after the second and third combo without losing BotD? Because in my experience this was nearly impossibile, as a rule I always used the second GK after FT of 4th segment (combo).

Just out of curiosity, I have a question about Alexander Savage 1.

Scenario: after the first add and laser phase, just before the first Oppressors' jump.
My Blood for Blood is ready again before the jump and enough to be used for all his duration. After the first jump my BL is ready again. I know that as a general rule is not suggested to hold CD use until mechanics requires to do this. Using Blood for Blood and BL will grant me more DPS in the long run than using Blood for Blood immediately before the first boss jump? Even more so if I use Blood for Blood before the first jump I think it comes back in an awkward moment, when I'm putting adds under the laser, so the use is going to be delayed anyway. So what do you guys do/suggest?

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Originally Posted by Lucael_Shikaree

Probably I'm missing something here. Did you usually manage to get a GK after the second and third combo without losing BotD? Because in my experience this was nearly impossibile, as a rule I always used the second GK after FT of 4th segment (combo).

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Think about it this way. Each line has two combos.

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Each "Combo" is one of your 4-stage combos. So Combo 1 = your first IDC4. Combo 2 your first TTT4. Combo 3 = your second IDC4. Combo 4 = your second TTT4.

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So what you just quoted, is 4 combos in total. You're skipping combo 3. You can use your first GK whenever, where ever, you like on the first line. So to answer your question, no, it will not fall off, as you're stacking up a lot more BotD time by skipping GK on the 3rd combo (second IDC4), granting you an additional 3s breathing room.

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Originally Posted by LoraKenkech

Is it even matter if I use gk not like this

HT - ID - [BOTD] - DI - CT - 4TH - PH - TT - VP - FT - [GK] - 4TH
--- DO NOT USE GEIRSKOGUL HERE
HT - ||| ID - DI - CT - 4TH - PH ||| - TT - VP - FT - 4TH - [GK]

But smth like this? I am currently doing that due to fact I cant doublebuff inbetween gcd and I have one of my jumps between FT - 4TH. I dont think this usage of GK is any worst but still please advise

HT - ID - [BOTD] - DI - CT - 4TH - PH - TT - VP - FT - 4TH - [GK]
--- DO NOT USE GEIRSKOGUL HERE
HT - ||| ID - DI - CT - 4TH - PH ||| - TT - VP - FT - 4TH - [GK]

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Yes, as your GK isn't going to be buffed by any of your buffs in your opener.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Think about it this way. Each line has two combos.
So what you just quoted, is 4 combos in total. You're skipping combo 3. You can use your first GK whenever, where ever, you like on the first line. So to answer your question, no, it will not fall off, as you're stacking up a lot more BotD time by skipping GK on the 3rd combo (second IDC4), granting you an additional 3s breathing room.

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I'm explaining myself badly, what I meant is this: since the advanced opener always had a GK before 4th in the second combo, doing a GK in the third combo was impossible (at least in my experience) from the beginning and using it in the 4 combo was the only choice (GK use is always something like B-B-A/B-B-A/B and so on...). So, I'm assuming you pointed out to not use the GK in the third combo for people that were using GK sooner than the GK-4th in the second combo?

Oooh, then ye you're right. However, skipping a combo also needs to become a habit when you learn how to do x2 GK BFB's, which is next on the list.

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Originally Posted by Lucael_Shikaree

Just out of curiosity, I have a question about Alexander Savage 1...

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As a rule of thumb, I make sure all B4B's get full uptime on Oppressor (so you don't waste buff uptime by running around), which means I have to hold back at times. First BL is used normally. Second BL I hold and use it right after the first jump when the party is getting back to position so that everyone gets the buff.

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Originally Posted by Lucael_Shikaree

Just out of curiosity, I have a question about Alexander Savage 1...

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I like to use B4B as soon as it's ready before the first jump. Yes, the jump happens with 2-4 seconds left on the buff, but when the landing happens, the cooldown is half over, well worth losing ~15% of the buff on 1 use. It does come back again at an odd time while placing the add , just like you said, and that might waste another 10 seconds of usage, but using it again right as you get back on the boss will have it ready for use again and lined up with IR as soon as the 2nd landing happens. You should be able to get the buffs fully used on the boss or with 1-2 seconds left to pick up your Alarum with B4B still on

On AS1 blow BFB pre jump, save litany for the landing. As Haelse said it will be back up again, and generally right after your add is dealt with so it doesn't get wasted

Guys guys I've added a Media Section to the last post, where I'll include all of the guides Myself, Thendiel, and others make, along with putting up good parsing examples and Dragoon PoV Savage/Extreme clears, etc. I'll be on the look out for good quality videos from people to fill it up.

I've also started work on my "Advanced Dragoon Video Guide", so hopefully I can finish that by the end of the week and finish up the OP.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Guys guys I've added a Media Section to the last post, where I'll include all of the guides Myself, Thendiel, and others make, along with putting up good parsing examples and Dragoon PoV Savage/Extreme clears, etc. I'll be on the look out for good quality videos from people to fill it up.

I've also started work on my "Advanced Dragoon Video Guide", so hopefully I can finish that by the end of the week and finish up the OP.

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I need to set up a twitch account so I can do some recording as well. Also will help with playback where I can see what I need to do differently/improve on.

sound slike drg might be getting some nerfs according to that new yoshida interview

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

sound slike drg might be getting some nerfs according to that new yoshida interview

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Doesn't necessarily mean they're nerfing dragoon here is the translation for the thread
Astrologian aside, are there any major imbalances between jobs right now?
Y: Let's see... to take the example of Alexander (savage) floor 3, the fight has only been cleared by a few teams, but they mostly cleared it with the same party makeup they had started with. I don't think they ever felt that a particular job was preventing them from winning. Of course there are still small bumps here and there, and our goal from now on will be to even them out. Job tuning is an endless job, and we will keep reconsidering things as situations evolve.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Doesn't necessarily mean they're nerfing dragoon here is the translation for the thread
Astrologian aside, are there any major imbalances between jobs right now?
Y: Let's see... to take the example of Alexander (savage) floor 3, the fight has only been cleared by a few teams, but they mostly cleared it with the same party makeup they had started with. I don't think they ever felt that a particular job was preventing them from winning. Of course there are still small bumps here and there, and our goal from now on will be to even them out. Job tuning is an endless job, and we will keep reconsidering things as situations evolve.

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That, and he pretty much just said they were worried about tanks having a hard time to keep aggro because the DPS classes are doing much more damage at level 60. Nothing about DRG in particular.

Here's the 3.1 Patch fixes: (In my opinion)

Astrololgian: Potency buffs
Paladin: Rage of Halone damage buffed to compete with Butchers Block
Tank general: Enmity Fixes
Monk: Some sort of really good raid utility outside of Dragon Kick for it to compete with Battle Litany and Trick Attack.

Dragoon and Monk are neck and neck in terms of DPS. The only difference is the DPS utility the Ninja and Dragoon bring, Dark Knight being slightly better for magic mitigation along with replacing Dragon Kick and Warrior buffing all 3, then the Dragoon buffing your "Ranger". Overall Raid DPS is strong.

The DPS synergy those 4 bring is far superior than changing NIN/DRG for a Monk and DRK for a Paladin. It's nothing to do with their individual DPS. It's their Utility.

They either need to somehow break that, or include the Monk and I believe SquareEnix will do the latter.

i hope so. i dont want this game to be nerf fest like LoL

I still don't think that our job is too broken that they need to nerf it immediately at the next patch.

Seems like it's more of a playstyle balancing rather than an individual nerf.

My guess is that they'll buff tanks' thread modifiers rather than doing a flat nerf to DPS classes, but I could be wrong.

I have leveled all the tanks to 60, I don't think I have encountered any serious real issues related to threat -that is, unless I was severely outgeared or I messed up the opening or...stuff*. I believe the problem lies not in the classes themselves, some are more bursty than others (even though those with less burst now have high potency moves too), but in the damage/aggro output that tanks have. PLD for example didn't get any aggro-increasing abilities - two of them mitigate or help mitigate, one heals, two are for aggro-less DPS. That kind of bothered me at the start, because I feared something like this would happen, although I really didn't notice anything difficult while leveling up or during daily roulettes. WAR and DRK seemed fine, too, but PLD may have some problems because of his already lower damage and FoF being the only offensive buff they have. Flash is only better than OP and Unleash in terms of "mitigation".

*muhdeliverancedps

Are DRG and MNK really that close for extended fights? In A1s our MNK is consistently ahead of me so I've always assumed that they were still top dps over time.

From my experience only it seems like MNK is still on the top, if only slightly. It doesn't feel like any nerfs/buffs need to be given except to Paladin and Astro.

Anyone who plays on controller could help me set up my hotbar pls?

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Originally Posted by KvotheCanvas

Anyone who plays on controller could help me set up my hotbar pls?

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http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/...pshbghdtlw.png

Hope that helps

I'd like to ask the question again of what i200 weapon DPS should be looking like.

Parsed 1300 (HQ X-Pot instead of HQ Draco, + HQ Flint Caviar) on Faust, no padding, no NIN, no MCH, no AST.

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Originally Posted by Nominous

I'd like to ask the question again of what i200 weapon DPS should be looking like.

Parsed 1300 (HQ X-Pot instead of HQ Draco, + HQ Flint Caviar) on Faust, no padding.

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I'm around 1250. Don't have MCH, AST or NIN either. I have a very slight delay double-weaving CDs tho ; ;

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I'm around 1250. Don't have MCH, AST or NIN either. I have a very slight delay double-weaving CDs tho ; ;

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Yeah, I'd imagine I could get a lot more damage if I didn't have such huge issues with double-weaving.

1300 on Faust is pretty high if you don't have a Ninja or Astrololgian.

Are you guys parsing from network data? Because I'm disabling that feature, it says that it eats up upload speed or something but I'm not sure which one is more accurate.

As for me I really need help on DPS against Faust, I guess, I can hit 1,2k if it's over ~2 minutes, but it's a task for me to hit ~1,2k over 3 minutes, I can still hit 1,1k over 6 minutes.

But that barely helps with anything. I'm only doing the first double-weave (BL+BFB) because I don't have the STR Pots to use in-between the Disem > pot > CT.

My rotation is pretty much the same like the one Dervy mentioned in his first page's post.

i200 weapon, with i190 item average. My upload speed is shit, so I'm afraid I can't upload a recording of me.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

1300 on Faust is pretty high if you don't have a Ninja or Astrololgian.

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Is this intended, Dervy? LOL

Don't worry about Faust parses; it's just a glorified dummy. Numbers that do matter are those in A1-4S.

How much difference does the potion make for your dps? Those things get expensive.

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Originally Posted by Greyfrost

Is this intended, Dervy? LOL

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Maaayyybe ;D