RIP Ninja

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I'm curious as to what this still even does. We know we're getting something to combo off Gust Slash to extend Huton, but they showed two new combat skills in the trailer... I'd assume the very Ninja-y looking ability was Triple Attack, but one of these skills hasn't really been explained.

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The triple attack is explained as basically a buff to the next weaponskill move (not a weaponskill in itself). I think the move at 2:58 is the Triple attack (Musou Sandan).
The move following it is a new weaponskill as well as the last move that you linked specifically.

One of these moves is Issou which increases weaponskill damage. The other extends Fuuton.
We don't know which is which though. I can't really guess.

The OP is meh. As someone who almost exclusively play melee dps classes I love the idea of positionals and the skills that are coming. If positionals bother you there is always bard, Personally I would like to see the class get more intricate and complicated but that's just me. Any decent melee dps player will have no issue hitting postionals. Especially those who played DRG pre buff.

Well the problem is "If positionals bother you there is NIN currently" for anyone who wanted to melee dps; then it becomes "If positionals bother you, too bad, you can't play melee dps, deal with it".
Having choices is good...

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Originally Posted by Erudain

Well the problem is "If positionals bother you there is NIN currently" for anyone who wanted to melee dps; then it becomes "If positionals bother you, too bad, you can't play melee dps, deal with it".
Having choices is good...

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Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

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Originally Posted by Kuurei

Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

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you mean like how all current positionals work? a bonus to dmg and the only current one giving a debuff when used.(trick attack).

*sigh* the reason I never play my monk is because moving back and forth constantly is friggan annoying. If ninja is going to start playing like that then I guess I wont be taking it to 60. Shame cuz I love my ninja but I don't find moving back and forth from flank to rear for every single attack to be fun. Guess its time to level a ranged class.

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Originally Posted by Kuurei

Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

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Two actually: Heavy Thrust for Flank, Chaos Thrust from behind.

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Originally Posted by Erudain

Well the problem is "If positionals bother you there is NIN currently" for anyone who wanted to melee dps; then it becomes "If positionals bother you, too bad, you can't play melee dps, deal with it".
Having choices is good...

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Until everyone understands this, I will continue to say it, since this is really the problem.

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Originally Posted by Kuurei

Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

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Right now, there are 3 MDPS classes:

The Monk, which requires so many positionals per minute I wouldn't even know how to accurately quantify it other than a loose guess of 18 positionals per minute making the assumption of 3 out of every 5 abilities per 10 seconds is a positional, which is likely not correct but seems good enough for the purposes of debate.

The Dragoon, which requires a mere 5 positionals per minute (3 heavy thrusts and 2 impulse drives per minute).

And Ninja, which requires a mere one positional per minute. It happens to be the largest pass/fail positional in the entire game at the present, though the only positional we know that will be close to it in pass fail is the Warrior's perfect parry, interestingly enough.

When you examine this, people who love positionals already have a class in the MDPS archetype. People who are okay with, but don't enjoy too many, have the Dragoon. People who hate positionals but want a melee DPS class have the Ninja if they can begrudgingly accept a mere one.

You are basically telling anyone who hates positionals but loves melee DPS to play RDPS classes, which many people do not enjoy.

Saying "Their positionals are bonus" does not alleviate the fact that they are required to maximize DPS as a MDPS class. They just don't completely cripple your DPS like they used to back when they were hard requirements. And to anyone who doesn't enjoy this, they are basically out of luck, because everyone wants the Ninja to be turned into a pseudo Dragoon or a Monk without giving anything in return. So instead of having even one class cater to the people who don't like positionals but love MDPS, you are saying they just shouldn't be MDPS because the people who love positionals and RDPS classes want something different from the Monk or Dragoon in style, but functionally similar in gameplay.

How can you not see this as a problem?

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Until everyone understands this, I will continue to say it, since this is really the problem.



Right now, there are 3 MDPS classes:

The Monk, which requires so many positionals per minute I wouldn't even know how to accurately quantify it other than a loose guess of 18 positionals per minute making the assumption of 3 out of every 5 abilities per 10 seconds is a positional, which is likely not correct but seems good enough for the purposes of debate.

The Dragoon, which requires a mere 5 positionals per minute (3 heavy thrusts and 2 impulse drives per minute).

And Ninja, which requires a mere one positional per minute. It happens to be the largest pass/fail positional in the entire game at the present, though the only positional we know that will be close to it in pass fail is the Warrior's perfect parry, interestingly enough.

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none of the three have actual requirements. they are positional bonuses, in that you do more damage when it is done from a certain position. initially, the only one that had true requirements was dragoon, in that you had to have impulse drive hit from behind, otherwise none of the next moves would apply.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

none of the three have actual requirements. they are positional bonuses, in that you do more damage when it is done from a certain position.

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Uh-huh, just like combos aren't actual "requirements", because you can just keep spamming the last strike of your combo indefinitely, without first having to execute the first two. It'll be ineffective, but hey, they aren't "requirements".