Specialist System in 3.0

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Originally Posted by Pterois

Yes... but no. You really don't have much of a choice with cross class skill, you pretty much need all of em. More like how the desynth system started and everyone went GSM because it was the obvious choice but they did level things off a bit once they realized how one sided it was.

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That was the point I was trying to make. Classes are homogenized. If you can do an 80 Durability 4* recipe on a GSM then you can do it on the other 7. I'd like to see more diversity. Similar to how Good Monk /= Good Dragoon or Good White Mage /= Good Scholar I'd like to see Good DoH /= Good all other DoHs.

Desynth was horribly lop sided in favor of GSM and to an extent still is. Between Crafted accessories and Desynth I get the impression the devs have a real boner for GSM. And I'm not saying make as bad as GSM the rest, I'm saying make the rest on par with GSM. I'd like to see BSM make weapons that could be relevant as a raid weapon. I'd like to see crafted armor be useful beyond the first few weeks before people get their tome gear.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

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Really though, it'd still be tough to change how crafting works for each individual class given that they all run on most of the same baseline abilities, and trying to make crafts that cater to those classes leave much to be desired (such as LTW's waste nots or ALC's TotT). In the end it's just falling onto the same priority/flowchart.

Having recipes exclusive to the specializations is personally enough for me, given that each one has something to bring.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Really though, it'd still be tough to change how crafting works for each individual class given that they all run on most of the same baseline abilities, and trying to make crafts that cater to those classes leave much to be desired (such as LTW's waste nots or ALC's TotT). In the end it's just falling onto the same priority/flowchart.

Having recipes exclusive to the specializations is personally enough for me, given that each one has something to bring.

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True, at the least I'd like to see Crafts/Control treated as something more than accuracy caps for crafters. Gets a little old when itemization is hitting those two numbers and then eating CP food.

As for the recipes, I really don't mind exclusive recipes so long as we don't get Alchemists with 5* Elemental Ward potions.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

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Control does help by-the-point to an extent; Its just that in our current crafting environment it doesn't matter much (due to our quality successes hinging on RNG anyway) as well as CP. Craftsmanship is static though with how it's tied to progression, I can't really come up with much.

They could make some craftable equipment that is untradable, but is raid quality/unmeldible. That's where the 3 specializations come into play for what class you want to gear (such as LTW and CRP for my bard). Weapons would always be tied to ones like ALC, CRP and BSM, and all classes have gear from different crafts/repair classes. Again what to watch out for is GSM and the accessories...

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Again what to watch out for is GSM and the accessories...

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It bewilders me that someone looked at BSM i110 weapons and GSM i110 accessories and thought that looked balanced.

Just pitching an idea here, but would it be too broken to have Control affect the chance of proccing Good/Excellent and Craftsmanship might raise success rates. The catch would be the stat is normalized to the recipe level requirement, so if you are doing a 4* then you only get bonuses for Craftsmanship/Control beyond the 451/407 required to attempt the recipe. This would give incentive to use food besides CP by giving the other stats some tangible value.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

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In the end, CP would still be far more valuable than the two. The reason CP is so good is that it gives oyu more leeway during a star craft, meaning less risk of RNG screwing you upside the butt. It's consistent and tangible compared to what you're suggesting right now for crafts/control and I'd still use a CP food just for the extra durability restores than praying for good/excellent happening (espesically when we look at current crafts, I can't get enough quality increases assuming I have all my touches succeeded; I still need at least a second MMII)

Right now, control does have a tangible value since it scales pretty quickly with IQ stacks, but in the current situation with how dependent we are on getting X amount of successes with 80% success rates, CP is just that much more valuable. Craftsmanship is just an "accuracy" cap so welp, I personally don't have a problem with that so much as I do with the current crafting situation.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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I mean it's a hard truth to point out but the overall design of crafting leaves very few options. When IQ Stacks + Byregot's is the only feasible way to complete any craft that you aren't grossly outgearing/outleveling then it leaves very little room for strategy and creativity.

Imagine if every iteration of Coil had the same exact mechanics as the previous iterations, the only difference being it got progressively less forgiving when you mess up. That's what crafting has felt like from 2* progressing to 4*.

If we got end game recipes that functioned like Ixali, I'd be excited just to be able to do a recipe that didn't involve farming IQ stacks.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

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You sound like me and my girlfriend. Between us we have all 4 star crafts and gathering. She has Lucis for botany and I have it for mining. Between the two for us we have all supras and a couple overlap. Between the both of us we should have all crafts covered with lucis by the time heavensward. It is nice being able to split them up...

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

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That's sort of what we're looking at when it comes to the scope of crafting. Turn-Based objectives are more-or-less pre-stepped planning. An that's the thing; to me I can't compare it to coil other than the fact its the pinnacle for that aspect of the game. We're comparing two completely different things; one that makes equipment/consumables, and another that uses said equips/consumables in combat.

And on the topic of coil, there's very little room for strategy/creativity regardless until you overgear that content; everyone is following the same strategy and team-ropejumping. Only exception I can come up with regards to FCoB is T11 positioning (and some are straight up more effective than others), Bennu positioning in T12, and handling divebombs in T13. It was only recently I heard about some japanese team getting 4 minutes on T10 because the healers were able to dps without the tanks dying as well as being able to group teh adds close enough to AoE (without them tethering to each other). You can't meet those checks/numbers without overgearing.

In the scope of ixali dailies, finishing an HQ craft would straight up involve using baseline skills that are shared between all the crafitng classes... which includes IQ. I don't think its a good example to make if we want to differentiate end game crafting for each of the classes.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

I mean it's a hard truth to point out but the overall design of crafting leaves very few options. When IQ Stacks + Byregot's is the only feasible way to complete any craft that you aren't grossly outgearing/outleveling then it leaves very little room for strategy and creativity.

Imagine if every iteration of Coil had the same exact mechanics as the previous iterations, the only difference being it got progressively less forgiving when you mess up. That's what crafting has felt like from 2* progressing to 4*.

If we got end game recipes that functioned like Ixali, I'd be excited just to be able to do a recipe that didn't involve farming IQ stacks.

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This makes me sad; "IQ Stacks + Byregot's"; goes to show that you don't know crafting at all if you think that's all it is. Sure we have set rotations but so do all DoW and DoM classes. Individual recipes follow a set rotation but still deviate based on situation. The same thing happens in coil, you follow a previously planned strategy and if you execute it right, and don't make mistake then you get a clear. They both fall into human error. Also, every iteration of fcob already has a mechanic which was previously used in 2nd coil or binding. If anything fcob is a lot easier than 2nd coil ever was. Crafting is fine the way it currently is, i like the random element that keeps players who don't know what they are doing down. Already a more intricate system than most mmo's.

Differentiating all the different crafting classes is plain, well casual talk. Oh it's too hard to have all 8 level'd. Well gee, because most didn't have to level 2-4 cross class for DoW and DoM. But if we want to be technical about it. No you don't need to have 8 crafting classes to 50.

Only one essential is carpenter(byrgot's).

Nice to have are armorer (pbp), goldsmith(innovation), Alchemist(comfort zone), blacksmith(ingenuity ii)

Not needed at all: culinarian(reclaim), Leather worker(waste not ii), weaver(careful synth ii)

Granted you do need to get em to at least 15, 37 for cul but that takes 15minutes and less than 100k for all 8.