Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'm not so secretly in favour of something like this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyegp4vVAAAI_kz.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...478&height=676

It's not a far cry from the older concept art.

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Assuming the lion thing is real and we get both genders, I feel like something sort of like this would be true (at least one of the face options).

I mean can you imagine them making two whole races and make the male viera dimorphic on top of that?

SE: Hi yes, its so hard to make a race
Us: O-okay.. what can we expect?
SE: Two dimorphic races, so basically four races- yes. Please look forward to it.
O_O

I'll chip in a vote for male viera if they're not added in shadowbringers, even if I die in love with the lion race (hopefully it's a thing lol). In general its been pretty great fun to talk about even if I doubt I'd want to wear bunny ears myself (although if they had an option to lay them down like we've discussed 1,000 pages ago.. maybe I would haha).

Not sure if this has been posted, but I haven't seen it when looking through the pages, so....

http://punmeup.com/wp-content/upload...or-510x550.jpg

interesting thing here if you can wade through the code of the French language scripts, you can see that the game is coded to recognize male AND female players of Viera and the leaked Hrothgar races. This could potentially mean that both races are getting both sexes.

Edit: removed image so as not to risk thread deletion. Trust me, it's there.

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

What did they do to make you dislike them? It's one thing to have preferences, but "disliking" them implies more than a preference.

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It doesn't really. Disliking something means just that, not liking it. That doesn't mean hating or being afraid of it which is what a phobia is. People can feel more than 0% or 100% about something, you can feel "meh" or in-between about something and just not care or "like" it. I'd personally feel the same about bunny boys but at the same time I'm completely impartial and don't care because people can like what they like even when I don't and it wouldn't affect me since I'm unlikely to change from lalafell after 8+ years anyway. Anyway sorry to bring that back up.

I quite like some of the designs that were posted here, I definitely see the case for the burly bunny-men too. If lion-people are true they could go both ways and try to please everyone right?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Sounds more like a dislike of feminine men than homophobia, as such.

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There's a word for that, but currently it's one of the big sore spots to poke for flame wars on the internet right now, so I'm going to avoid using it to save this thread from a shouting contest and potential moderator action. =.=

That being said, the consideration and accommodation of one person's tastes does not have to nullify the chance at another person getting their wishes fulfilled.

Roda wants this
https://cdn.stevivor.com/wp-content/...male-viera.jpg

as much as she wants this
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100206112448

But with Viera officially confirmed, I'm going to continue to push that they should finish that race before they even think about introducing another race.
And since Au Ra were introduced with.... disarming dimorphism for the females as compared to the males, I'm going to be firmly in the camp of the Viera males should at least be shorter (not girlier, not childish or boyish, but shorter) to 1, add some uniqueness to the race as a whole since no other race in xiv has that specific dimorphism (I'd also enjoy it if the females got all the vibrant hair colors taken from their initial creation pallet, and the males got all the dull hair colors taken from theirs to suggest a bird-like dimorphism too. Aestetistician can restore the usual colors with dyes) and 2, to kind of balance out what each gender gets since, Au Ra gave the males 1 more tall race, and the females 1 more short race. With tall viera females, and small viera males we'd at least all be on the same footing again.

I'll be able to critique more on the mystery race when it's more than vague leaks and old localization beta text bugs.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Not sure if this has been posted

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The forum masters have been really nice to let us go on with the information we have so far but I /highly/ recommend you remove that image because that might be the straw the pissed off our lords lol.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Roda wants this
as much as she wants this
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100206112448

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Haha I had to re-read your name tag, I wasn't prepared for the third person XD. Since we heard "lion-like" close to "ronso" but not quite, I really wonder if that's like those pictures but "doesn't have a horn and is maybe not blue" :).

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It's not a far cry from the older concept art.

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While there are some that want the small varied for guys like an inverse Au Ra, for the most part fanart that followed the female confirmation has been close to the art you posted: tall & handsome without tilting too much to kawaii uguu or hyper masc. I LOVE that 1st artwork especially because it shows that they could totally have a matching starter outfit that highlights what makes a male body sexy without it being camp and/or an awkward copy of the female set.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

interesting thing here if you can wade through the code of the French language scripts, you can see that the game is coded to recognize male AND female players of Viera and the leaked Hrothgar races. This could potentially mean that both races are getting both sexes.

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While I don't really expect it at this point, I am hoping that is the case. If these are going to be our final races I'd like them to be complete packages.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Balanced is pretty subjective though. Balanced by what metric? We've seen how diverse in appearance people have desires for regarding just male viera, some want buff masculine viera, some want petite effeminate viera, some want tiny cute viera.

There's plenty of metrics that would still be balanced if two genderlocked races were introduced as well.

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There's nothing that can be done with a previously unseen, male-only lion race that can not be done with previously unseen male Viera. Other than opening the floodgates for calls to fill out the now missing counterparts.

I can't see any sensible reason to add two half-done races instead of a completely done one, other than to get a foot in the door for doing them later, which they have the ability to do anyway because they're the devs.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Haha I had to re-read your name tag, I wasn't prepared for the third person XD. Since we heard "lion-like" close to "ronso" but not quite, I really wonder if that's like those pictures but "doesn't have a horn and is maybe not blue" lol.

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Sorry, it's not something i usually do, meant it to kinda convey the intensity of me desires X_X
and I hope they keep the horn if they really do ronso! Maybe even give the females a smaller horn! I really like those kinds of sexual dimorphisms in fantasy races. (see the Charr in GW2, where the males have these huge, crazy horns and tusks, while females have smaller, more functional horns and fangs. suggesting that the males' features are more used for sexy display than any actual defense. It's subtle race lore that isn't just slapped on because it's stereotypical to the gender, but because the designers actually thought about it!)

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Originally Posted by Rokke

While there are some that want the small varied for guys like an inverse Au Ra, for the most part fanart that followed the female confirmation has been close to the art you posted: tall & handsome without tilting too much to kawaii uguu or hyper masc. I LOVE that 1st artwork especially because it shows that they could totally have a matching starter outfit that highlights what makes a male body sexy without it being camp and/or an awkward copy of the female set.



While I don't really expect it at this point, I am hoping that is the case. If these are going to be our final races I'd like them to be complete packages.

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If you look at the old concept art (the one i've posted probably like 4 times in this thread by now @@;;; ) you'll notice that they are actually shorter! Not as much as the Au Ra of course (because that height difference is hella weird and I hate it) but they're about a half a head shorter than the female in the picture.
#teamshortervieramalesbutstillhavethemtallenoughtobeleggytoughbois

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Originally Posted by Roda

If you look at the old concept art (the one i've posted probably like 4 times in this thread by now @@;;; ) you'll notice that they are actually shorter! Not as much as the Au Ra of course (because that height difference is hella weird and I hate it) but they're about a half a head shorter than the female in the picture.
#teamshortervieramalesbutstillhavethemtallenoughtobeleggytoughbois

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Obviously I don't know what would happen but if say they had a height slider that went short enough what that be good? In that way the males and females might have closer min/max but both reach up and down in larger variance than other races might.

Also I wonder if players can control their heel height too or if that's set in stone. Short, high heeled, bunnyfu lol.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Sorry, it's not something i usually do, meant it to kinda convey the intensity of me desires X_X
and I hope they keep the horn if they really do ronso! Maybe even give the females a smaller horn! I really like those kinds of sexual dimorphisms in fantasy races. (see the Charr in GW2, where the males have these huge, crazy horns and tusks, while females have smaller, more functional horns and fangs. suggesting that the males' features are more used for sexy display than any actual defense. It's subtle race lore that isn't just slapped on because it's stereotypical to the gender, but because the designers actually thought about it!)

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No need to be sorry !! :D It just caught me off guard lol. I respect your intensity, and.. I also.. really.. want.. the horn.. like I think I'll be happy without it but the horn is pretty awesome. Also I'd get behind some sexy display horns - the chest area for males haha. Sir, do those give you a headache? Gotta max slider the horns, NPC Ronso will reference you with pity or reverence based on the size of your horns XD.

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Originally Posted by Roda

If you look at the old concept art (the one i've posted probably like 4 times in this thread by now @@;;; ) you'll notice that they are actually shorter! Not as much as the Au Ra of course (because that height difference is hella weird and I hate it) but they're about a half a head shorter than the female in the picture.
#teamshortervieramalesbutstillhavethemtallenoughtobeleggytoughbois

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Male rabbits are smaller than female rabbits in real life. It would be appropriate.

Anyway, hrothgar being in the strings before viera is the note of potential interest, as it suggests they were being worked on(at least on some level) between au ra and viera. It's entirely possible that they've just been getting worked on as a side project for 4-5 years. That would easily allow for the artist time needed for two races with both genders. Hell, they could've been cut content for Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Obviously I don't know what would happen but if say they had a height slider that went short enough what that be good? In that way the males and females might have closer min/max but both reach up and down in larger variance than other races might.

Also I wonder if players can control their heel height too or if that's set in stone. Short, high heeled, bunnyfu lol.

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Personally, I want the max of the female to be higher than the max of the males, and the min of the males to be shorter than the min of the females. By how much, I couldn't say without like actually getting my hands on some art. But if the sliders were set to identical heights, that would be... neutral for me, not something I'd really celebrate over, but I'd still accept without much more than mild disappointment at the lost potential.

As for heel height, that's... probably gonna be a big fat no. Not unless they rework the animation systems in-game to allow IK to be used for the limbs (which I really REALLY wish they would do, because it adds a lot of animation polish to the game and there are already a lot of animation errors that would be fixed by allowing IK to be used on the arms and legs)

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Originally Posted by Roda

If you look at the old concept art (the one i've posted probably like 4 times in this thread by now @@;;; ) you'll notice that they are actually shorter! Not as much as the Au Ra of course (because that height difference is hella weird and I hate it) but they're about a half a head shorter than the female in the picture.
#teamshortervieramalesbutstillhavethemtallenoughtobeleggytoughbois

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I think Fran came up to my max heigh male Au ra's nose, and he's 7'1"ish. We don't know if she's max, min, mid, or custom sized buuut going off her height, they'd still likely be plenty tall as far as playable races go.

I will actually be disappointed if we get another race and not male viera. Also, lowkey gonna be disappointed if they only look like this:

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'm not so secretly in favour of something like this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyegp4vVAAAI_kz.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...478&height=676

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If one of hte sub races comes out like that but the other one has them more cutesy, Id be more for that personally. I think we got enough of hte big macho male stereotype in the game, but thats just me.

In any case, what the heck is Hrothgar? Are we getting a 2 for the price of one thing here much to everyones surprise?

I think if they go with two full blown races, two dimorphous subraces for Viera are even less likely.

My guess as to where the Viera males would be in terms of their size is between a male midlander and elezen, assuming that the race isn't too dimorphous between the genders.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I think Fran came up to my max heigh male Au ra's nose, and he's 7'1"ish. We don't know if she's max, min, mid, or custom sized buuut going off her height, they'd still likely be plenty tall as far as playable races go.

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Yes! I was so happy at how they retained her height! It eased a lot of fears as to what they would do to the females (after what they DID to female Au Ra!!!!)
Now those anxieties have shifted to the other sex. @@ (Gosh, I wish SE would be more open with their communication... I hate having to discuss critiques on guesses and hints, but if I don't now, that's even less time to display my concerns to the company I'm giving money to about the quality of their product and blah blah blah..)

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

I will actually be disappointed if we get another race and not male viera. Also, lowkey gonna be disappointed if they only look like this:



If one of hte sub races comes out like that but the other one has them more cutesy, Id be more for that personally. I think we got enough of hte big macho male stereotype in the game, but thats just me.

In any case, what the heck is Hrothgar? Are we getting a 2 for the price of one thing here much to everyones surprise?

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The original, reliably trustworthy leaker said that there'd be a race other than viera and that there was a hint in his avatar, which is a picture of a lion and a rabbit next to each other. There are strings for a GLD quest referencing hrothgar having "Majestic manes," and are named after a figure from Norse myth that has a name derived from the word for "Famous spear." As far as we know, they're ronso in everything but name.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The original, reliably trustworthy leaker said that there'd be a race other than viera and that there was a hint in his avatar, which is a picture of a lion and a rabbit next to each other. There are strings for a GLD quest referencing hrothgar having "Majestic manes," and are named after a figure from Norse myth that has a name derived from the word for "Famous spear." As far as we know, they're ronso in everything but name.

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Yes, and add to this that the name is "Hroar" in some versions.

The Hrothgar are "lions" all right but not the ones you think about. Here is the male in all its glory :

https://i.imgur.com/4bplpXk.jpg

Oh, so hornless charr with a back brace '3'

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

There's nothing that can be done with a previously unseen, male-only lion race that can not be done with previously unseen male Viera. Other than opening the floodgates for calls to fill out the now missing counterparts.

I can't see any sensible reason to add two half-done races instead of a completely done one, other than to get a foot in the door for doing them later, which they have the ability to do anyway because they're the devs.

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More creative freedom is what they are afforded by going with a new race over Viera. Viera have a history from past games, and choosing to include them as a race comes with issues. You either toss their lore and appearance out the window, which will piss off fans, or you're restricted by the pre established elements. The more freedoms you take with the design/implementation the less like their original incarnations they become.

So sure, they could make male viera look like anything, but to say everyone would be happy with how they turned out is just not true. You already saw plenty of people complaining about the female viera and they're hardly different from 12's.

With a new race, they aren't bound by these potential restrictions, and actually get to make something new. If I was a director of a big final fantasy game I'd want to put brand new stuff into the IP to make my mark too.

The game called me the "dignified representative" of the Viera race, I am shook.

https://i.imgur.com/RvlwZ29.png

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yes, and add to this that the name is "Hroar" in some versions.

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Humorously, it's Roe in the Danish version of the story.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

More creative freedom is what they are afforded by going with a new race over Viera. Viera have a history from past games, and choosing to include them as a race comes with issues. You either toss their lore and appearance out the window, which will piss off fans, or you're restricted by the pre established elements. The more freedoms you take with the design/implementation the less like their original incarnations they become.

So sure, they could make male viera look like anything, but to say everyone would be happy with how they turned out is just not true. You already saw plenty of people complaining about the female viera and they're hardly different from 12's.

With a new race, they aren't bound by these potential restrictions, and actually get to make something new. If I was a director of a big final fantasy game I'd want to put brand new stuff into the IP to make my mark too.

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You're not going to get 100% approval on anything anyway, that's not really an excuse to go with one over the other.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Humorously, it's Roe in the Danish version of the story.

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I saw that. It got a chuckle out of me.

SOME variation of male Viera is better than no male Viera. There will never be a way to please everyone but doing nothing and throwing a curveball will just piss off more people. Luckily so far evidence points to them being playable along with both genders of Hrothgar, but if this isn’t the case best believe I’m gonna be pissed.

I remember some speculation about there being Ronso males as the counter to viera females, but I sincerely hope that isnt the case. That would be very disappointing to me. I want Viera males (even if theyre musclemen) and if there are Ronso, female ones (no idea what they look like but why not.)

Guess we'll have to wait and see...

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

You're not going to get 100% approval on anything anyway, that's not really an excuse to go with one over the other.

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It's an excuse if Yoshida makes it one. You don't have to like it or accept, but he doesn't have to justify it to everyone. He's made plenty of non-valid excuses for a lot of things regarding the game. In the end he's still the director and it ultimately comes down to his decision.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

That and the fact that a second gender of a race should not be news. If they have so little to announce that they had to wait to show the male version then why are we 1) having 3 fanfests and 2) a new expansion?

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Do consider that never in any other FF game have we had a male Viera before. Considering they're technically from outside of XIV's original creations, this could be news for FF fans outside of XIV too. Perhaps they don't want the males to overshadow the females which we're kind of already really used to - as much as people begged for them.

Nothing concrete of course, but I think we just have to chill until Tokyo fest.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

It's an excuse if Yoshida makes it one. You don't have to like it or accept, but he doesn't have to justify it to everyone. He's made plenty of non-valid excuses for a lot of things regarding the game. In the end he's still the director and it ultimately comes down to his decision.

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Exactly.

Doesn't mean his decisions make sense or are good, though.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

It's an excuse if Yoshida makes it one. You don't have to like it or accept, but he doesn't have to justify it to everyone. He's made plenty of non-valid excuses for a lot of things regarding the game. In the end he's still the director and it ultimately comes down to his decision.

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I won’t give him money if he doesn’t make the decisions that I agree with. All his power comes from us who play this game, not the other way around. I’ve taken hiatus from this game before and if he for some reason screws up male Viera then he can kiss my sub money goodbye for a few months until he adds them. I do not pay for incomplete games or games which break their promises.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

Nothing concrete of course, but I think we just have to chill until Tokyo fest.

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Hahahahaha.
ahahaha.a
aha.haaah.a

What's that?
Never heard of it.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Hahahahaha.
ahahaha.a
aha.haaah.a

What's that?
Never heard of it.

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Play this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfiTebewnc 92 times and we'll all know what the race is going to be :).

Plz no sue for mental damages :3

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

I won’t give him money if he doesn’t make the decisions that I agree with. All his power comes from us who play this game, not the other way around. I’ve taken hiatus from this game before and if he for some reason screws up male Viera then he can kiss my sub money goodbye for a few months until he adds them. I do not pay for incomplete games or games which break their promises.

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Then speak with your dollar. If such a thing is a deal breaker for you than go, if enough people do I'm sure they might consider fixing it. But I will be honest and admit that I don't think enough would share your conviction to make any kind of serious dent. People will threaten to and ultimately not do it, or come back eventually.

He also never promised male viera so it's not a promise he'd be breaking.

I think it's more the promise made with the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 where they wouldn't do that whole genderlocking thing anymore...

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Originally Posted by Roda

I think it's more the promise made with the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 where they wouldn't do that whole genderlocking thing anymore...

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Exactly. If WoW can spit out 4 or 5 races with both genders during that last expansion of theirs then what on earth prevents FFXIV from doing the same?

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Exactly. If WoW can spit out 4 or 5 races with both genders during that last expansion of theirs then what on earth prevents FFXIV from doing the same?

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To be fair, I don't know exactly how WoW deals with their races and gear and such, it could be a lot simpler for them and their system or art style, for example.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Exactly. If WoW can spit out 4 or 5 races with both genders during that last expansion of theirs then what on earth prevents FFXIV from doing the same?

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The fact that all but one of them are very obviously rushed and are mostly palette swaps, with the one that has a new skeleton just being fat people that have one face per gender.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Exactly. If WoW can spit out 4 or 5 races with both genders during that last expansion of theirs then what on earth prevents FFXIV from doing the same?

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Well ok to be absolutely fair, calling them "new races" isn't really accurate.
The Kul Tiran humans would count, as well as maybe the Zandalari trolls. But all of the other allied races are just old races with new textures, faces hairs, and voices. The animations and bodies are identical to their old counterparts (and those two are typically the most time consuming things to implement, at least when you don't actually have to sculpt much for normal mapping).

Though they did create the Vulpera and Sethrak that ARE basically the same as two new player races, except they made them npc only for some reason.

WOW already at my post limit =.=

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Originally Posted by Riardon

Crappy coding and a game based on spaghetti pudding of a code where adding essential features require a massive effort.
This and some archaic Japanese moral codes that working on a silly bunny outfit took years because of the staff feeling uneasy?
Unless the interviews were a lie ofc.

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To be fair (again), WoW's code probably isn't that clean either. It's reaching, what, it's 14th year now?
But that story about the devs being too cowardly to put a male character in a bunny suit despite putting a female in one just fine is really freaking sad.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Exactly. If WoW can spit out 4 or 5 races with both genders during that last expansion of theirs then what on earth prevents FFXIV from doing the same?

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Crappy coding and a game based on spaghetti pudding of a code where adding essential features require a massive effort.
This and some archaic Japanese moral codes that working on a silly bunny outfit took years because of the staff feeling uneasy?
Unless the interviews were a lie ofc.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

To be fair, I don't know exactly how WoW deals with their races and gear and such, it could be a lot simpler for them and their system or art style, for example.

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It would be a bit more accurate to suggest WoW pumped out a bunch of subraces (FFXIV clans), rather than comparable to FFXIV races. Although it's still neat, if you're into that thing. Like Daralii, and Roda, says a lot of them have minor changes like colors - which simplifies things a lot. The new racials are neat (races in that game have special abilities), if perhaps a bit imbalanced compared to other races lol.

An example might be if they took the Au Ra we have now but add some more demonic options to meet their concept art, perhaps tiny modifications to the female body (or using another race's body) and making it more seductive like some concept art (not as smoll and cute).

Or if they added a Vivi-construct race, which would probably be rather straight forward in terms of customization lol. (using lalafell animations).

I think the new "allied"races is a fun gimmick, so I'm not trying to knock it, but a lot of them are not quite what you might think requires the full work of a new race (a lot of cost effective choices were made for a number of them, not all).