Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Leveling, and perhaps that rank 50 content can act like a goal for people to reach for. I agree there is little content prior to 50 but powerleveling isn't the answer.

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It is an answer. There is choice in the matter. People who want to xp party can xp party. I've done maybe 2 PL parties. Maybe 3. Done tons of xp parties since 1.19 hit though. Was in one just last night. I understand the existence of PL dilutes the presence of xp parties, at lower ranks more so, but it is not as severe as some people make it out to be.

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If SE is that adamant about only designing rank 50 content why not just let people be rank 50? I don't get the point of the leveling system if it's going to be 100% pointless until at least 2.0 and perhaps even beyond that.

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You just counted leveling as being content. Removing that is removing content from a content-hungry game. Fact is some people enjoy taking their time through their levels. Some find they learn their classes better that way. This isn't true for everyone though.

The key point is choice.

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The "Grind" has a purpose of killing time, and keeping players in the game for a longer period of time. If SE wants to run around this all the power to them, I'm just saying don't expect alot of those people who rushed to 50 to bother sticking around when they finished all of the 2 (3 in the future) things they can do as Level 50 characters.

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Again it's down to choice. The grind has the purpose of killing time? It's fluff. Some people like the fluff, some don't care for it. With each 50 you gain, you care less and less about taking your time on the next one. Contrary to your argument, there are people who won't stick around if more than half the content is at level 50 and there's little to do but grind and grind and grind until you get to 50.

People who wanna level can level. People who want to play mainly for content at 50 can ask to be PL'ed.

Again, to each his own.

I guess I just don't think people should be able to "Choose" to skip a large part of the game. Might as well give people a choice to have all the weapons and armour at their fingertips before actually doing anything as well.

You know..."To each his own"

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I guess I just don't think people should be able to "Choose" to skip a large part of the game. Might as well give people a choice to have all the weapons and armour at their fingertips before actually doing anything as well.

You know..."To each his own"

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The problem is that it isn't a large part of the game. It's a lot of numerical fluff. If it was a large part of the game, skipping through it perhaps could be considered more problematic.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The problem is that it isn't a large part of the game. It's a lot of numerical fluff. If it was a large part of the game, skipping through it perhaps could be considered more problematic.

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Gear is numerical fluff as well, people kill ifirit with nothing but santa suits on. Arguably the most important peice of gear is really only your weapon. People can "Skip through" gear for the most part and have very few issues as well.

SE has made leveling a almost non-consequential part of the game and I am puzzled as to why it even exists if it has no over-arching purpose. Hell the people who enjoy grinding can still grind at 50 (Materia grinding) so keeping leveling in the game is pointless.

At a instant rank 50 cap grinders could still grind, and people who hate grinding can just...I don't know stand around town doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Gear is numerical fluff as well, people kill ifirit with nothing but santa suits on. Arguably the most important peice of gear is really only your weapon. People can "Skip through" gear for the most part and have very few issues as well.

SE has made leveling a almost non-consequential part of the game and I am puzzled as to why it even exists if it has no over-arching purpose. Hell the people who enjoy grinding can still grind at 50 (Materia grinding) so keeping leveling in the game is pointless.

At a instant rank 50 cap grinders could still grind, and people who hate grinding can just...I don't know stand around town doing nothing.

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You do understand that the potency of PL is a measure to keep players entertained at higher levels due to their inability to prioritize lower-mid level content in this temporary game which they are going to scrap in favor of 2.0 in 1 year's time, right?

Gear is numerical fluff? If you're going to argue semantics then guess what - much more people enjoy doing content with gear rewards than they do repeatedly killing mobs just for level gains. My numerical fluff is better than yours.

At the end of the day the PL isn't even that severe as to allow auto 50 immediately for no work. Even if you take the expedited PL path to 50, it still requires work in almost all scenarios. To get a class from 1-50 without doing any work will require you to have at least one very altruistic friend. Someone, somewhere is doing work for it to happen.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Even if you take the expedited PL path to 50, it still requires work in almost all scenarios.

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So going AFK is work?

Or are you saying that becasue someone else is doing the work for me that it's somehow ok. Again leveling is pointless as it stands and if SE is going to reinforce this in the future I don't know what the point of a leveling system is in the end.

If SE came out and told us that things would be balanced later on I wouldn't have any issues with the current PL situation, but without any word on that I just find it hard to imagine what is going to happen if they allow it to become the "Norm" to go from 1 to cap in less than a day.

Took a LS mate from 45-46 in less than 10 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/user/smiley7890?feature=mhee

40-50 only takes 2 hours if you beast it hardcore.

Thanks SE.

Classes to 50: 1
Sense of accomplishment: 0

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Took a LS mate from 45-46 in less than 10 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/user/smiley7890?feature=mhee

40-50 only takes 2 hours if you beast it hardcore.

Thanks SE.

Classes to 50: 1
Sense of accomplishment: 0

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Like hardcore players consider level 50 an accomplishment :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

So going AFK is work?

Or are you saying that becasue someone else is doing the work for me that it's somehow ok. Again leveling is pointless as it stands and if SE is going to reinforce this in the future I don't know what the point of a leveling system is in the end.

If SE came out and told us that things would be balanced later on I wouldn't have any issues with the current PL situation, but without any word on that I just find it hard to imagine what is going to happen if they allow it to become the "Norm" to go from 1 to cap in less than a day.

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Not expecting lots of things to change with 2.0 is silly.

Also Yoshi explicitly stated he believes PL is fine to an extent since the high level player is taking the time do it for the lower leveled ones. He is just against the lower level players being able to go completely afk in the process - which was worked on. i understand people found a workaround through invites, and thus if they deem it to be bad enough they will address that. I don't see PL being removed after Yoshi's statements though. Lots of people clearly do not want to see it go either. The argument is moot.

I honestly don't see the point of PL. After 2.0, you will have all your battle classes to 50 already. What's the point of staying either way? Then you will have a HUGE gap between new and old people. It's not even necessary since it effects everyone else in the game. I'm sick of having to defend or take over a PL camp just so my party (how the game is supposed to be played ) can grind.

And btw, I don't think they meant for PL to mean get in party, take hate, then leave and still have hate. That is a broken system. If PL still exists in 2.0, I will be very dissapointed.

I love low level content. You don't have everything to use at your disposal and it's that sense of prorgression that is so much fun. When you finally reach level 25 and can do Toto and finally equip that new piece of gear. Actually buy low leveled gear in the wards. You know, a balanced game.

I really don't see what the problem is. The grind is at a very reasonable curve since it allows everyone to make progress, even if the only have a couple hours to spare a night.

The only time leveling gets insanely fast is around the 45 range when you do strongholds, but at that point I don't think it matters much since all you're really learning are higher tiers of what you already had. You should already know what do at that point on your class any way.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

Like hardcore players consider level 50 an accomplishment :rolleyes:

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We used to, when it took 2 months to get there.

Now its a joke.

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Originally Posted by Icehunter

I started at collector's launch and my computer couldn't handle the game that well. So I really started up alot again around November. I don't remember it taking that long?

Someone else posted at 20k/hour it's 95 hours to level, so for the more hardcore/jobless (not necessarily the same), 14 hours a day would give them a capped class every week.

Thinking back to November and on of last year, is 20k/hour doable solo/duo?

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on release date it was 2 months for 50 if you were totally sick. if you played casually it took a lot more than that

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Originally Posted by Majidah

on release date it was 2 months for 50 if you were totally sick. if you played casually it took a lot more than that

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Yup a lot longer. It was an achievement for Conjurer to get Protect and Shell. I remember when I finally got them and thought I was so cool to be one of the few mages that could cast it xD.

Now, everyone has it >.>

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Yup a lot longer. It was an achievement for Conjurer to get Protect and Shell. I remember when I finally got them and thought I was so cool to be one of the few mages that could cast it xD.

Now, everyone has it >.>

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The only reason it took so long to rank up at realese is because of the broken method of SP distribution.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

The only reason it took so long to rank up at realese is because of the broken method of SP distribution.

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But after that, it still was a small grind when you went into grind parties like crabs and what not.

I've been playing some really fun games lately and the though of returning to FFXIV makes me cringe.

My favorite part, regular EXP parties, has taken second fiddle to endgame content that I personally do not enjoy. I thought they would fix PL'ing, but it seems to be mostly working as intended. Ack! By now, they must be aware of the AFK PL workarounds, but fixing those loopholes is clearly not a priority.

The FFXIV that I enjoyed is gone for now. Not even sure if it will return. I have some great friends in-game, and I feel like maybe I'm letting them down by not playing anymore. I can't just play for their sake though, I want to enjoy my freetime activities.

So, like many others, I will check back after 1.20 is released and make the call when the time comes. If AFK PL'ing remains possible, then that will be the end for me.

So, after 126 pages of posts, what's the problem again?

Power leveling is "absolutely broken." Really? So the OP is "for" PLing, but only if it's "fixed" or "balanced?" Buffoonery.

And since these forums tend to be more about two cents, trolling and flaming than anything helpful to devs, here's mine: PLing is fun. I LOVE it! And i think it's a great way to bond with other players in pickup parties and LS mates.

Is it cheap? Yes. Is it a system exploit? Yes. And I hope Yoshi and his team read only my reply and base their entire decision on what I've just posted, 'cause I want FFXIV to be all for me! To hell with the rest of you. Waah!

(What's next?)

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Originally Posted by BarretWallace

So, after 126 pages of posts, what's the problem again?

Power leveling is "absolutely broken." Really? So the OP is "for" PLing, but only if it's "fixed" or "balanced?" Buffoonery.

And since these forums tend to be more about two cents, trolling and flaming than anything helpful to devs, here's mine: PLing is fun. I LOVE it! And i think it's a great way to bond with other players in pickup parties and LS mates.

Is it cheap? Yes. Is it a system exploit? Yes. And I hope Yoshi and his team read only my reply and base their entire decision on what I've just posted, 'cause I want FFXIV to be all for me! To hell with the rest of you. Waah!

(What's next?)

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"This thread is nothing but two cents and trolling"

"Let me add to it."

I lold a little.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It is an answer. There is choice in the matter. People who want to xp party can xp party. I've done maybe 2 PL parties. Maybe 3. Done tons of xp parties since 1.19 hit though. Was in one just last night. I understand the existence of PL dilutes the presence of xp parties, at lower ranks more so, but it is not as severe as some people make it out to be.

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1 to 40 in a day is pretty severe. It is essentially the same thing as letting people start at lvl 40.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

1 to 40 in a day is pretty severe. It is essentially the same thing as letting people start at lvl 40.

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Yeah, what with those SE-issued power levelers and all just waiting to grind for someone for six straight hours the moment they get out of the opening cut scene. Just like starting at 40.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Yeah, what with those SE-issued power levelers and all just waiting to grind for someone for six straight hours the moment they get out of the opening cut scene. Just like starting at 40.

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SE doesn't need to issue PLs because people just PL themselves. Yoshida hides his PL stance behind the fact that he wants friend to help level friend, but the truth is, most people PL themselves. The rest of the PLers trade off, 1 PLs the other for an Hour then they switch. This is blatant abuse of a poorly designed system. And no, that isn't going to stop when Subs starts or when 2.0 drops. Unless they fix this within the next two patches, it's here for the life of the game.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

SE doesn't need to issue PLs because people just PL themselves. Yoshida hides his PL stance behind the fact that he wants friend to help level friend, but the truth is, most people PL themselves. The rest of the PLers trade off, 1 PLs the other for an Hour then they switch. This is blatant abuse of a poorly designed system. And no, that isn't going to stop when Subs starts or when 2.0 drops. Unless they fix this within the next two patches, it's here for the life of the game.

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If someone has the money to buy two computers to run this game, and the desire two purchase two copies of it in order to PL a second character. More power to them


The "oust and kill" thing needs to be fixed. Most ideally by exp being determined by party level when the mob is claimed.

PL as intended is fine.

i agree with PL. i DO NOT agree with afk PL. simple. gl to us all

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

I completely agree. It might as well be considered cheating >_>

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No it is not, remember what Yoshi said.

I don't know why people are so outraged over people being PL'd while afk. "I'm fine with PL'ing as long as that person is at the keyboard, and still not contributing to a damn thing".

Maybe I am missing something, this is confusing to me.


How are you for something that requires absolutely no work or contribution, but against the very same thing when the participants are afk?

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Originally Posted by Baxter

I don't know why people are so outraged over people being PL'd while afk. "I'm fine with PL'ing as long as that person is at the keyboard, and still not contributing to a damn thing".

Maybe I am missing something, this is confusing to me.


How are you for something that requires absolutely no work or contribution, but against the very same thing when the participants are afk?

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probably because people look at it the same way as using a bot to level. if you are at your computer and can respond to things if a gm says something even using a bot they won't touch you, but if you are afk you can and SHOULD be banned for it.

i don't agree with the power leveling the way it is now at all neways. if they wanted to level sync people if they just "wanted to help a friend" i'd be ok with that because they won't be getting 10x the sp as a regular grind party does. even if someone stayed outside the party and healed while the party killed mobs i would be fine with. the join and leave power leveling is absolutely horrid to have people getting free levels without ever pulling out their weapon or getting off their chocobo.

The real issue is the amount of SP people are getting by being powerleveled vs grinding.

If PLing resulted in say; up to double the amount grinding gave, I doubt any of us would have an issue with it.

The fact that you can get 500k-1mil XP an HOUR is the issue. No way its possible to get even 20% of that in a legit group.

This is what I personally refer to as the "broken" part.

If a grind party can get 30k an hour, a PL should give 20-50k an hour. NOT 800k AN HOUR.

No mention of this problem in any of the Letters or 1.20, 1.21 patch descriptions.

Party search is finally coming at a time when regular EXP parties are obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Smashington

Party search is finally coming at a time when regular EXP parties are obsolete.

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Exactly. I stopped seeing shouts for party because hey, why level your ass off if you can get to 50 in a day or two by leaving your PC online while someone else does all the work?

I got PLed a few times to get GLA for lolSentinel cause I hate the class and don't want to touch it even with a long pole, but it was just boring staring at the exp bar... while leveling my archer in a party was loads of fun.

The thread started way back when the PLer could just stay in a party and others would get exp - that was broken and not intended. Too bad they fixed it only in a half-assed way so that the party gets the claims even if the player claimed the mobs gets kicked.

In the end, it's the same as before the fix, just needing one person except the PLer to be active to kickinvite.

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Originally Posted by Smashington

No mention of this problem in any of the Letters or 1.20, 1.21 patch descriptions.

Party search is finally coming at a time when regular EXP parties are obsolete.

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Lol I'm going to quote and rebump this for truth xD I don't care if others complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I tried being polite, so you can grab all your assumptions and shove them down your ass. Thanks.
You don't have the slightest idea of how anyone here fares in-game. So when making up all these stories you do nothing but look like a god damned idiot.

No one complained about having no one who to play with.

Try to drill into your thick skull: some (many, apparently) people actually want to enjoy the journey to 50 and not be doing end game at the beginning of the game.
FFXI delivered this. FFXIV does not.

Here's a secret: Pacing is always present. In every video game. It shouldn't be imposed by players, but by the game's DESIGNER. So people who suggest one should slow oneself down are giving terrible advise... one should play to their content.

Pacing is done with a leveling curve, prerequisites and quests. Which currently is so light it takes less than a week to get to end game, rendering all low level and mid level content useless.

God, no pacing? What a tool.

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WAAA Let me call you a tool because i'm illiterate and incapable of understanding concepts such as pacing, waaaa someone stop people from having fun so i can have fun.... yep, sounds like you alright.

If PLing is so offense to you just don't do it.

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Originally Posted by Altareon

If PLing is so offense to you just don't do it.

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No! People will, and should dictate how YOU play and experience the game at all costs!

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

The real issue is the amount of SP people are getting by being powerleveled vs grinding.

If PLing resulted in say; up to double the amount grinding gave, I doubt any of us would have an issue with it.

The fact that you can get 500k-1mil XP an HOUR is the issue. No way its possible to get even 20% of that in a legit group.

This is what I personally refer to as the "broken" part.

If a grind party can get 30k an hour, a PL should give 20-50k an hour. NOT 800k AN HOUR.

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Not sure where you pulled the 800k from.
Camp repop rate is once every min. For a single puller in a camp with 8 mobs, the max you can get is only around 240-300k. (4-5k per pull x 60 = 240-300) And this will decrease as you level up.
It is more likely to do a full clear of the mobs once every 2 min, so rates are about 120-150k/hour.

-> Still a lot but nowhere near 800k/hour.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Not sure where you pulled the 800k from.
Camp repop rate is once every min. For a single puller in a camp with 8 mobs, the max you can get is only around 240-300k. (4-5k per pull x 60 = 240-300) And this will decrease as you level up.
It is more likely to do a full clear of the mobs once every 2 min, so rates are about 120-150k/hour.

-> Still a lot but nowhere near 800k/hour.

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Welcome to the XIV forums, where hyperbole is stated as fact.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Not sure where you pulled the 800k from.
Camp repop rate is once every min. For a single puller in a camp with 8 mobs, the max you can get is only around 240-300k. (4-5k per pull x 60 = 240-300) And this will decrease as you level up.
It is more likely to do a full clear of the mobs once every 2 min, so rates are about 120-150k/hour.

-> Still a lot but nowhere near 800k/hour.

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and there's also camps that have 20 mobs that spawn every 1-2 minute and you can clear them and rebuff before the next set spawns. now i am not saying that power leveling can get anywhere near 1 mil sp per hour, but will say that in around 2 hours without pulling out your weapon you can get pulled from 40-50.

just so you know in those spots you do get between 15-20k sp per pull and not 5k. btw, another thing in those areas your sp actually increases once you hit 45 not decreases.

Its funny that only people with all maxed out levels are bitching about pleveling, what, reached the top but now don't want others doing it because you'll have nothing to hold over others? get over yourself, or better yet, stop being so full of yourself, let others have their fun, and if you don't like it, DON'T DO IT! unfair advantage means someone doing something that not everyone can, Botting is an unfair advantage, hacking is an unfair advantage, pleveling is not since its accessible to everyone, you know what an unfair advantage is? its that we got to use shields as a separate skill but new people after 1.20 isn't, unfair advantage is that people had to level their crafts on hell and nails before but after 1.20 we get craft linking, Pleveling was always there, and will always be there at some extent.

But what pisess me off the most, is that you people are hellbent on turning this into a generic game, flying mounts, capes, higher grinds, cash shop, but one thing that is in common with every other mmo, the existence of pleveling, you want removed, you should all be ashamed of yourself, because i know that i as a player am ashamed of being represented as a part of the community by you people that are incapable of common sense or moral high ground.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Welcome to the XIV forums, where hyperbole is stated as fact.

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Might want to rephrase that, general quality of inteligence on these forums seems to suggest a level of education insufficient to understand such words.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

hacking is an unfair advantage, pleveling is not since its accessible to everyone.

but one thing that is in common with every other mmo, the existence of pleveling, you want removed,

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Lolwhut?

On the first point hacking could be considered balanced as well because everyone playing has access to the internet and therefor the means to attain hacks. Silly point but true none the less.

On to the true point of your post, who said anything about removing powerleveling entirely? I beleive the majority of discussion is about how rediculously powerfull it is compared to most MMO's. You turn what was maybe a few weeks of work with even the best parties into a single day because you know a single person with time on their hands.

Everyone's rank 50 now, whoopidy doo~ what do we all win now a gold star or something? No...? We just get to stand around town and whine about how we have nothing to do now that we are all 50? Damnit...if only we didn't all powerlevel to 50 on every job in the game!

People at 50 complaining has absolutely nothing to do with wanting power over others or something to brag about, we where complaining about it when SE first announced the removal of Mob claiming, we told them what would happen. And exactly what we said would happen did. Same with the removal of level cap penalty. Same with the drop out of party exploit which they refuse to address.

The game has more then enough content to keep people busy for months on end if look at level 1 through 50. You have 2 dungeons, a ton of nms, a ton of quest, escort things, main storyline, 5 different kinds of leves. At 50 you have world Nms, a dungeon, 3 settlements, and ifrit. And faction bosses if you want to include those.... Without pwrlvling a new player easily has 4-6 months of content to keep them busy if they play say 20-30hrs a week. With pwrlvling they have maby 3-4 weeks tops.

The problem with fast leveling is there is not enough endgame in anyway to support a character with all fighting classes maxed out. Which is the single biggest issue the game has (lack of content).

So you WILL run into these problems with pwrlvling:
1) There will no one to party with because the game will be instantly top heavy
2) 80% of the games content is negated because there is no reason to do it
3) People will refuse a normal party because a pwrlvl party gets SP literally 10fold faster.
4) You will get to endgame, be really happy, then log out 3 weeks later because you done everything.... and constantly complain on the forums about there not being enough content in the game.

More or less this game is not even close to being able to support a top heavy playerbase like XI did. This game also must always have people leveling in it... because despite the game being "Technically" soloable I can safely say 95% of the people will quit this game before 25 if they have to Solo the whole way. This is the worse solo mmo ever developed it is simply not fun at all, it is only fun when you play with others, at that point it is fairly enjoyable.