Both healers working together to heal when needed and dpsing when not needed is far better thean having one focus on healing while the other tend to other activities. Plus, it's way more fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
I find the term off-healer extremely misleading and using it to "teach" newcomers about their job isn't a very smart choice.
But...I...I don't wanna DPS, I'm a healer...
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10-21-2015, 06:10 AMFevelle
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10-21-2015, 06:16 AMCynfaelOn the other hand it can be quite helpful to designate certain responsibilities. Whether you call it "off-healer" or "pheasant-plucker" is irrelevant. There truly are situations where one healer (or even specifically one player) is better suited to meeting the party healing requirement, taking care of one or both tanks, DPSing specific targets, or any combination of the above. This can also change from one phase to the next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
In your average DF activity where fine distinctions are unnecessary, then I'd fall back on the sort of etiquette you described. -
10-21-2015, 06:19 AMLyrica_AshtineThere's a reason why it's a thing to make one healer focus on healing and the other do both. Namely execution. Ideally you'd want both healers cast out their highest potency spells (in nearly all the cases DoTs) rather than filler spells from either healer. But this doesn't come with risks and the amount of players capable of adapting to each other so perfectly that one cleric's on and the other cleric's off are spread wide and thin. The risks? Both healers being locked in Cleric's stance when they think it's their time to do so. You could communicate this out, but this will create pointless "noise" over the chat - Be it voice or written chat. While the whole "main-healer-supportive-healer" model isn't perfect, simplicity makes it easier to work it out with less risks involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevelle
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10-21-2015, 07:22 AMGorlioliolio
@SaitoHikari in regards to your question
Regen, yes unless there is 1 mob left in a trash pack and it's close to death (or a big pack where all are close to death) if the tank isn't good they might not notice it and then you get attacked by the next pack of mobs. Medica II, situationally good to keep up.Quote:
And finally, probably the most important question: Should I REALLY be using Regen that much? I refresh it all the time during fights, but I'm starting to think doing that is a bad thing (it's probably why Titan went after me).
In that titan HM situation you described it is more likely that you cast medica 2, and then instead of sitting back and letting it work you also cast 2-3 medicas. I can't count the number of times whms did that on titan hm during 2.0 in my groups. Don't medica 2 until after heart, it's not needed, also shroud on CD (use first time after he lands the first time and you do your second aoe heal, might actually need to hold it slightly longer since dps can push it harder nowadays).
4 mans are an entirely different beast though, I don't have whm 60 currently but I have ast to 60 on my alt toon. What I do to get the most possible dps out is stack the living crap out of regens on the tank. As soon as they have agro established (sometimes it takes a while, so you might need to add a cure 2 in here to top them off before full dps) Synastry (Divine Seal) > Aspected Helios (Medica 2) > Aspected Benefic (Regen) > that AOE regen bubble thing (Asylum) > this part is ast only but Time Dilation (+15s to all those regens) and then that aoe stun (5 more seconds of regen plus 4 seconds of tank taking no damage) followed by as many gravities (Holy) as I can get out until I'm under 15% MP or the tank is under 30% HP > Essential Dignity (Tetra or bene if you have it) and then maintenance heals while I regen MP until fight is over. If the dps in your group don't suck the mobs will be dead, if they do suck the mobs are probably all around 60% because I can't do all the work, then I jump around not dpsing ONLY because I don't have the MP for it.
On my main toon I play as a tank, and when I see a healer who refuses to dps for whatever reason I drop tank stance and continue on like that. At least that way the healer has to actually do some work.
On topic finally.
I really don't understand why healers don't want to dps, they have the potential to put out 70% of a dps class (more in aoe situations if no aoe classes) as do tanks, so total of 3.4 dps class capabilities in any given expert dungeon.
If the healer doesn't do dps that drops to 2.7. Let's call 20 mins an average expert run with a healer dpsing. (I've been in fewer sub 15 min runs using DF than I can count on 1 hand, I don't know how lucky others are at DF)
2.7/3.4=79% of the potential dps of the group.
20/.79=25.2 minutes
So by not dpsing you essentially increase the time by 5 minutes and 12 seconds. If you do the bare minimum for experts each week to cap, that's 6 experts.
You have now wasted 31 minutes and 12 seconds of your time this week. If you do that for a year, that's 27 hours, 2 minutes, 24 seconds.
You have wasted over a day of your time by being lazy. It's bad enough that we are all wasting our time away playing this game, but you are going beyond that to waste even more of it only because you couldn't be bothered to push more than 2-3 buttons.
Edit: To anyone saying most dps don't do near 100% of their potential. I agree fully with that statement. However using that as a basis of argument is kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Because if most dps are doing 50% of their own potential (600 seems to be about average in most DF pugs I'm in, 1200+ from going in with people I know) your 70% just made it so the group is now doing 1.7/2.4 or 71% instead of 79%. From personal experience these 50%ers seem to be in almost every expert roulette. And all of those time wasting numbers just increased by about 35%. -
10-21-2015, 12:39 PM416to305I feel like any WHM doing Medica 2 followed by 2-3 Medica in Titan HM is seriously wasting MP! I haven't done it in forever, but generally when the ground goes red and everyone stacks, you start casting Medica II, so it hits the moment after Titan lands. There's really no need for anything else after that, as the single Medica II can easily bring everyone back. Not to mention you'll have the other healer probably doing the same type of spell, or you could even Divine Seal right before that Medica II. A single Medica might be needed after but I really don't think so, but either way 2 or 3 I've never seen before and seems like a waste. At least in my casual experience, and I've prob done it over 100 times as it used to be my #1 fav when I first hit 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorlioliolio
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10-21-2015, 02:04 PMTintthat 70% of a real DPS is on a dummy without ever using any healing spell. so all your numbers are wrong, because you actually have to heal between dpsing. i heared somewhere around 300 DPS as a healer is realistic (prove me wrong, i'm on PS4 and can't see my dps). so that 5 mins are probably just 2.5 mins faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorlioliolio
if i do DPS i need around 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. if i don't do dps i also need 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. my fastest run was btw 12 mins - only dpsing on bosses. -
10-21-2015, 07:54 PMGorlioliolio
When I run as sch I pull 1k+ on trash and usually 600+ on bosses, but my sch is only around 178 ilvl, others in here have shown their parses where they pull 700-900 on boss mobs in experts.
When I play ast my dps on trash is 90% dependant on the other dps in the group, I can pull close to 2k until my MP floors and if the actual dps suck that quickly drops to 300-400 but if they are good it maintains around 12-1300 by the end of the fight, remember this is with my first 10 seconds of the fight spent getting all my regens up and extended, so my actual dps from the point I start until I stop nuking is probably a lot higher. On bosses usually 500 or so, my ast alt is ilvl 171.
90% of dps classes are pulling 700 or less in experts from my experience.
When I run as drk I'm pulling around 1200 on trash and 950-1k on bosses (pulled a 1150 on final fractal boss once, nin/nin combo is OP for drks)
Edit: To the titan HM thing, you don't need that medica 2 on him landing, everyone will be around 90% from the initial cast alone, the regens help for the first 10 seconds but then you have 20 seconds of over healing. You only need med 2 when he starts stomping 5-6 times in a row, and that's only for MP efficiency, if you really wanted to avoid overhealing you could probably get away without a single med 2 the whole fight, especially if your partner is helping with aoe heals. In final phase the stomps are pretty much exactly 1 min apart so the sch can have their aoe regen going every single one if they are running eos. -
10-21-2015, 08:13 PMDarkerOrangeOn SCH I can pull 700 ish single target and 1.3k+ on larger pulls, quite often matching or beating DF DPS classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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10-21-2015, 10:48 PMGhishlain
Yeah, parses are for all intents and purposes "illegal" on FFXIV. Though the general consensus is to maintain Fight Club rules. Don't talk about (and definitely don't harass about it). It's a great tool to measure your maximum DPS potential with a class and it just one tool a player can use to help improve themselves.
The parse itself is over a 16 minute duration, so it's including all trash pulls in the dungeon. Something like that would highly favour a WHM and their AoE potential and do a disservice towards melee's so it's not an accurate representation of the party DPS on things that matter (bosses). Individual Boss parses are important because it can gauge how well you're doing while dealing with mechanics, adds, etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Twilite
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10-21-2015, 11:56 PMNamoNanamoQuote:
Originally Posted by Iris_BP
My overall Ilvl is 200 with Ravana's weapon. And for my overheal, it's easy=> Divine seal + Regen + Buble + medica2(I use medicaII against Boss or when the party took too much damage). I wanted to max dps cause we lacked of dps so I just let my hot heal them.
They were all with I200 weapons with 190-200 gear.
A lot of dungeon player are just bad or don't want to dps.
The dps against the boss wasn't high neither.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
The first boss: The drg was only 857 dps and I was 754
The second boss is a bit more tricky cause it depend a lot If I open the door before he groan or not: 745 dps for the drg and 586 for me
And the last boss was awful cause they took some mine: 693 and 519 for me
The drg has no excuse. His dps was low. Anw, the Nin was worse and the tank was... special.
A good Drg can put a lot more dps without problem. Even Against Trash Mob. I, when I play drg, with less gear, put a lot higher dps and I'm just a random Drg.