Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

chances are PVP wont be as affected by the delay as the instances are. the instances are running on less than optimized servers, they also have more graphics to load than a bare pvp arena does so it'll be less apparent for motion lag and timing issues. the skill lag will be the most noticeable of all the issues that create the overall problem.

needless to say people will be using sleep and stun so much during PVP lots of the lag issues will be lost in the "can't do anything" of those moves.

CatOfNineTails, i disagree with that statement.
Not sure if everyone already noticed, but when we start attacking a mob, its hp bar starts decreasing as we do the 1st hit, but after that it loses its syncronization.. if we stop attacking it (and even un-draw the weapon) he will just die on its own! Cause he still hadn't received(in our screen) the dmg we did 1 second ago..
same big delay goes with everything else, trying to stun/silence a mob to prevent its casting and also moving away from the aoes.
and the worse is that the delay is totally random.. sometimes is a mere 0.1sec and can go up to 1.5seconds.

only 125 pages here, brb reading for the next 5 years.

monday bump

Didn't bother this whole week to grind myth tomes. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Only a matter of time before I never come back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snorgrind

Can anyone explain this to me ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxn2Q2pv3o

If its lag i should not be kicked in this direction right? This basicaly means that the server knows where im standing but still hit me(kick in wrong direction).

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yeah i can explain it to you. You were still in the dam red area when the cast was finished, what do none of you seem to understand about this. You may have been out by the time that animation finished, but thats not what the game cares about, it only cares about where you are when that cast bar completes, and you were clearly still in it when it finished. nuff said

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Originally Posted by Bashkarthegreat

yeah i can explain it to you. You were still in the dam red area when the cast was finished, what do none of you seem to understand about this. You may have been out by the time that animation finished, but thats not what the game cares about, it only cares about where you are when that cast bar completes, and you were clearly still in it when it finished. nuff said

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Are people seriously still trying to argue this? Play the game with someone in the same room as you and get back to me.

Another day, another dollar, another complete lack of acknowledgement that legions of your playerbase is being shafted.

Related Note: no reply regarding my ingame bug ticket as promised by the automated submission system. Did anyone else file reports?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Misaky

CatOfNineTails, i disagree with that statement.
Not sure if everyone already noticed, but when we start attacking a mob, its hp bar starts decreasing as we do the 1st hit, but after that it loses its syncronization.. if we stop attacking it (and even un-draw the weapon) he will just die on its own! Cause he still hadn't received(in our screen) the dmg we did 1 second ago..
same big delay goes with everything else, trying to stun/silence a mob to prevent its casting and also moving away from the aoes.
and the worse is that the delay is totally random.. sometimes is a mere 0.1sec and can go up to 1.5seconds.

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Oh but that is another great SE invention, which is working as intended - animation delay, where effect takes place only after you skill animation plays its full length.

this is a nice one, not sure if already posted somewhere before...
Currently the main issue is the 0,3 position check, as seen in the video it is not enough to run out. You have to use any other skill or change runing direction to interrupt the 0,3 positon check and precautions send new position to server!
Easy said as done, because if you use a skill just before the AoE spawns under you, you are locked in the 0,3 position check AND 2,5 global cooldown -> If that happens you have no chance to avoid (changing runing direction or jumping when beeing out of AoE may helps). In add, the time to react is on some AoEs not much, in CM as example its nearly impossible to avoid the big AoE because fast casting and very big area!


It is a miracle why SE done AoE with less than 2,5 cast time, also why in general those fast things have to be AoE? At least, why the heck most of them do hurt that much?
I understand that oftn the main issue was to force the tank positioning the boss facing away from group, but that doesnt explain Plumes on Titan or other AoEs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3leMnErroL0

That video makes it as plain as day, he is out of the AoE area when the cast bar is at 50%. I would like to see some of the naysayers comment on this, would like to see SE comment on this even more; I doubt either will happen.

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Originally Posted by Bashkarthegreat

yeah i can explain it to you. You were still in the dam red area when the cast was finished, what do none of you seem to understand about this. You may have been out by the time that animation finished, but thats not what the game cares about, it only cares about where you are when that cast bar completes, and you were clearly still in it when it finished. nuff said

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Then explain this: http://youtu.be/QsHuXAl-bOY?t=6m21s

Notice how the player is OUT of the AoE BEFORE the cast bar is complete? By your logic, he should have avoided the attack completely.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

this is a nice one, not sure if already posted somewhere before...

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Wow that one is the best example I have seen... 50%? Heh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magus42

More PEBCAK:

http://i.imgur.com/jUCfubl.png

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Actually i didnt try to dodge that, i just wanted to know why he kicked me in wrong direction if according to the server im infront of him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goreth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3leMnErroL0

That video makes it as plain as day, he is out of the AoE area when the cast bar is at 50%. I would like to see some of the naysayers comment on this, would like to see SE comment on this even more; I doubt either will happen.

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If this doesn't get fixed, I predict a lot of players will eventually find another game to spend their $15 a month.

This is not something you can just ignore and hope players eventually stop complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

this is a nice one, not sure if already posted somewhere before...

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Thank you for posting such a beautiful example of the mythical "Be out of it before 75%" theory being quashed. He is way out of the AOE before 75% around 50% and still gets shafted.

This me moving out of WotL at 99%

http://youtu.be/s9xs-nH46Mk

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Originally Posted by Silverwalk

Thanks for posting that video, it helps to see it from someone who is not having the problems. Could you make another video please, I want to see what happens with autofollow.

1. Get someone/friend to target you and /follow
2. Start Fraps and swing your camera view around so you can see them
3. Now start running forward
4. After about five seconds stop and wait for them to catch up to you and stop
5. Stop Fraps

If we can get videos of this from people who are not having problems dodging AoE's then maybe we can see a difference in /follow - which uses the positional updates.

Thanks.

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I'll do this tonight.

It might help resolve the issue if people with lag problems can post more info...ping speed, packet loss, wired or wireless, hardware specs, isp speeds etc. I can see from some of the videos it is happening but I believe there is a vast majority of people not realising cast bar and animation are not synced (which is ridiculous).

Oh and btw I don't use ping zapper or any vpn thingy. Just hard wired next to the master socket, no wifi.

One of the major problems is that people like Namko (who I don't doubt means well and is honestly trying to help) simply do not understand the issue and incorrectly think they aren't affected by it. *Every* player, on *Every* NA/EU server, on *Every* ISP with *Every* possible PC setup is affected by this issue.

Here's the simple test: start casting a spell/ability, then move your character before its done casting, with 10-30 (100-300ms) left on the cast bar. Do this several times in a row. The spells will nearly always complete. If anyone can upload a video showing them successfully canceling spell/ability casts near the end, several times in a row, I'll be happy to buy you a 3-month sub. This goes for Namko, or any other player who doesn't understand this issue and mistakenly thinks it is about ping speed, packet loss, or anything else but SE's terrible, terrible servers.

My brothers and I (A family of gamers) got together one weekend for a 4 man dungeon. I was unable to dodge any aoe with my older laptop. Sitting side by side, we noticed that my cast bar would show up slightly after theirs and would finish casting after theirs were already casted. After 45 minutes of deaths, I switched to a newer up to date computer and the problem with the aoe-lag was solved. We also tested this on an older gaming pc we built 5 years ago in WoW's day and it was also having the same problem with all settings set to minimum.

Whether or not we are all affected to some degree I don't know,the 100-300ms. The only way to actually test this is to have multiple same top notch computers test for the delay I guess and then for lesser computers and so forth. Testing it for yourself will just give you results based on your system I feel. Sitting side by side with my brothers clearly shows an older pc performing poorly, especially my laptop for aoe.

I don't have packet loss. Done Leatrix Latency Fix. Done Port Forwarding. Have pinged all the game servers always been under 150. I move out of the red the moment it appears (or I'm already strafing away), I get hit 50-90% of the time. It doesn't matter if I use WTFast or try every other "fix".

Looking at guide videos of future Hard Mode fights, I have realized that I will never be able to do that content at this rate. Story Mode Titan might Landslide me stuck in the story as well.

I had less lag during Early Access, and now after a bunch of "fixes" I'm still in the red from the other side of the battlefield, apparently.

And before you question my ISP, it's Telia. They're Tier 1 on the internet backbone/network gig. If Tier 1 customers notice a unusually high lag (possibly game-breaking), things are bad server-side.

I've successfully been able to dodge the weights 100% of the time, but that's only by anticipating when its going to happen and start moving before he casts it. If I don't do that, then it's usually iffy if I'm out of it, even if I'm visibly out of the circle before the animation goes off. I have found that jumping after I'm out of it will force the server to recognize where I am, which can also help in dodging it, but they do need to fix this issue.

People have used computer specs as an excuse for this and have not realized to calculate how much it really values in what you see on screen and reaction times.
I am not expert in calculus and these are just what ever comes to mind.
If a player has 10 frames per second which is a frame every 0.1 seconds if the frame occurs in steady intervals. This means the 0.3 seconds (rumored position check) + latency + invisible frame can actually cause you to see the cast bar and danger areas 0.5 seconds later than it occurs server side. So computer specs do contribute to this by smaller factor and only when your fps is really low.

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Originally Posted by Bearssi

People have used computer specs as an excuse for this and have not realized to calculate how much it really values in what you see on screen and reaction times.
I am not expert in calculus and these are just what ever comes to mind.
If a player has 10 frames per second which is a frame every 0.1 seconds if the frame occurs in steady intervals. This means the 0.3 seconds (rumored position check) + latency + invisible frame can actually cause you to see the cast bar and danger areas 0.5 seconds later than it occurs server side.

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My fps is a non issue, as it's at 60 in a 4 man dungeon or a 8 man raid and I experience the flawed position check , latency or w/e you want to call it.
I'm pretty darn sure most people don't game at 10fps, so you can throw this theory in the trash. And the issue doesn't scale, or fluctuate based on fps.
Fps has nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by azethoth

There is nothing rumored about the position check. It is fact stated by Yoshida. I have seen several posts in the last few days reference this as speculative or other synonyms. It.Is.Fact.

Lower end specs certainly can cause this issue to be more predominant. I have an i7 4770k, 8gigs of ram, GTX 760 OC and even I get this issue. This was built into the game by choice, and it was a bad choice. As many have said all you have to do to see the issue is Cast a spell and begin moving. The spell does not immediately cancel. Other ways, run up to an object and interact with it. Stone vigil is good for this. If you do not come to a complete stop and pause a moment you will start to use the object than get interrupted. Regarless though, I could quad sli titans and OC my cpu to 4.7 ghz and this issue would still occur because it is caused by their servers and not our machines.

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^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vincent1

well my free trial is up in a few days and guess what SE. i won't be subbing, because of this problem. good luck with pvp lol!

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This.

The funny thing is the white knights in regards to red circles, their big solution is "move before you see it".
Clunkiest MMO I've ever played.
This isn't to say I don't care...I do, or I wouldn't have leveled to 50 or bothered posting on forum, but I'm done because SE clearly does not care.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bearssi

(rumored position check)

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There is nothing rumored about the position check. It is fact stated by Yoshida. I have seen several posts in the last few days reference this as speculative or other synonyms. It.Is.Fact.

Lower end specs certainly can cause this issue to be more predominant. I have an i7 4770k, 8gigs of ram, GTX 760 OC and even I get this issue. This was built into the game by choice, and it was a bad choice. As many have said all you have to do to see the issue is Cast a spell and begin moving. The spell does not immediately cancel. Other ways, run up to an object and interact with it. Stone vigil is good for this. If you do not come to a complete stop and pause a moment you will start to use the object than get interrupted. Regardless though, I could quad sli titans and OC my cpu to 4.7 ghz and this issue would still occur because it is caused by their servers and not our machines.

This has actually ruined my motivation to play the game since most content relies on parties, I do not want the hassle of the servers causing content to be more difficult than it has to be. So I only log on to do my myth cap since I paid for 6 months. Losing faith in SE, too bad I cant get a refund like I did for GW2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xystic

(Snip for word limit...)

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It's not computer specs with me:
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU (a high-end CPU)
16GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 690(VRAM 4014 MB) (A powerful gaming card)
Samsung SSD 840 Pro (was considered the fastest and most reliable SSD through most of 2012/2013 by most reviewers)

On top of having a Tier 1 ISP. On top of having a screen with the lowest delay possible (and still I capped at 60fps just in case). On top of having arguably (between three high-end) the best air cooler possible. On top of their benchmark telling me that I should be able to run laps around their game thrice over when I tested it (and became bored during testing and watched a 1080p movie during the test and even with those resources busy, I was told that my computer is more than enough for this game).

May I repeat that this is the only game in which I am having these issues.

well my free trial is up in a few days and guess what SE. i won't be subbing, because of this problem. good luck with pvp lol!

Maybe they don't know how to fix it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaddix

Maybe they don't know how to fix it?

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Would be great just to get some communication on the issue - if it's intended, if it's an optimization problem, if it's a network code issue, or a client issue - we don't know all we can go off is observations. Speculating what about what the issue is isn't going to fade so I really hope they address it. Ninja fixing it isn't going to bring people already fed up with the game back either! :/

Daily bump.

This has nothing to do with PC specs (though I imagine lag itself would exasperate the problem further on older PCs).

Intel i5-4440 Haswell, 3.1GHz
Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3
Gigabyte Overclocked Geforce GTX 650 Ti, 2GB, GDDR5
32GB of Corsair Ram
Windows 8 x64

Still get the problem running on both high and non-existent graphic settings.

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Now back to reality, still no acknowledgement of their problem. Starting to be like a broken record! My friend (also in New Zealand) encountered a party of Aussies trying to do Titan HM last night, it was a duck shoot for Titan - everyone kept dying due to this issue.

I ran titan around 12 times yesterday. They all ended in wins. Titan is easy. Plumes are the easiest move to avoid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TakKuroda

I ran titan around 12 times yesterday. They all ended in wins. Titan is easy. Plumes are the easiest move to avoid.

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good for you! but that does not diminish the issue that many of us are suffering long delays which make the tells completely unreliable if not totally useless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TakKuroda

I ran titan around 12 times yesterday. They all ended in wins. Titan is easy. Plumes are the easiest move to avoid.

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You are not helping this discussion, titan is not hard. His zone server is. Anyway a pointless request I am sure. People if you can adapt to the crappy server structure more power to you. Just dont post here. I have noticed a several times that what we have for devs/community teams/mods on this forum dismiss topics if at least 2 people have a counter point to the issue. For example saying " I dont have this issue" Had a bug report closed because people posted factually incorrect statements in the report thread, and I honestly couldn't be bothered to resubmit it after that..
Everyone has this issue whether they know it or not as it is inherent in the design of the game.
Also whats amazing about our team and forums. "Accepted Bug" does not mean an acknowledged issue as a mod posted earlier. It simply means there is enough information to investigate. It doesn't even mean they are investigating or will investigate. Silly really.

So some players are suffering from this issue and others aren't?

Going from a 14 FPS laptop to a 60 FPS PC made the difference for me. However, people with high end computers appear to be still having issues it seems.

Quote:

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I cant get a refund like I did for GW2.

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Hmph... I've been dissatisfied with many games but I have never gone to the extent of requesting a refund lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TakKuroda

I ran titan around 12 times yesterday. They all ended in wins. Titan is easy. Plumes are the easiest move to avoid.

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Pointless and irrelevant post is pointless and irrelevant.
All that tells me is you and your team memorized Titans patterns. That doesn't fix the issue, that just removes it as a issue for you. Kinda like shoving garbage under the couch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xystic

So some players are suffering from this issue and others aren't?

Going from a 14 FPS laptop to a 60 FPS PC made the difference for me. However, people with high end computers appear to be still having issues it seems.

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Please tell me what fps has to do with the horrible server /client discrepancy?
Rhetorical question, I can tell you it has nothing to do with it.
And I call BS that higher fps "fixed" it for you. It's not a issue one person has, and the next doesn't, nor does it get magically fixed by anything on the users end. It's not ON the users end. I can see why you think everything is peachy now though, since you had a "laggy" play experience and now have a smoother one. 15 fps is not playable. But you're not on the same page as this thread, or the issue at hand.

If you don't notice taking damage from red circles, even after moving out of them well in time try this: Cast a spell, and at 80%, move to cancel it. I bet you it won't cancel and the spell will go ahead and cast.
Same issue.
The issue is so predictable, I see a dps move out of a red circle ( in time I might add) and I go ahead and cast cure anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by azethoth

What he is saying which is completely valid is that lower frame rate makes this issue more prevalent. Higher end machines can render more frames faster which make the issue more bearable. However no amount of computer hardware can fix this on our end.

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Right....
And I'm calling BS that the issue was magically fixed. It's not a issue one person has, and the next doesn't or something you or I can fix.
He just doesn't notice it anymore with the effect smoother fps has given him. He's so used to horrible image quality and low fps, his upgrade is blinding him to the remaining issue.
Fps for me is a non issue, everything on high with SweetFX as well, always 60 fps in a dungeon, and to me it's unforgivable. It's manageable, but I can't ignore it. It's game breaking and destroys my enjoyment of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xystic

So some players are suffering from this issue and others aren't?

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Everyone is affected by this issue, the difference being the extent. Some don't notice it unless they look for very specific things (easiest is Conjurer and cast Cure on yourself and move just before the cast timer hits the end, if the spell isn't immediately cancelled, you're affected even if you can't tell in day-to-day gaming.) While for others it is the difference between dodging a long cast AoE from other side of the battlefield.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PerrythePlatypus

snip

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What he is saying which is completely valid is that lower frame rate makes this issue more prevalent. Higher end machines can render more frames faster which make the issue more bearable. However no amount of computer hardware can fix this on our end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Hmph... I've been dissatisfied with many games but I have never gone to the extent of requesting a refund lol.

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Yeah I asked them for a refund because the game was that bad. They tried to talk me out of it by saying, well if you decide to come back you will have to buy the game again. I told them that's fine I want my money back and I got it. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PerrythePlatypus

Right....
And I'm calling BS that the issue was magically fixed. It's not a issue one person has, and the next doesn't or something you or I can fix.
He just doesn't notice it anymore with the effect smoother fps has given him. He's so used to horrible image quality and low fps, his upgrade is blinding him to the remaining issue.
Fps for me is a non issue, everything on high with SweetFX as well, always 60 fps in a dungeon, and to me it's unforgivable. It's manageable, but I can't ignore it. It's game breaking and destroys my enjoyment of the game.

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My apologies, I felt you were very agressive with your response to the point you may have missed what he said. I felt a need to respond to that for that reason alone.

I feel the same way, as I see this issue everywhere all the time. Not that it effects me personally as I have adapted to it. It makes me not want to play, I simply log on to do myth runs in the hope that if they fix it before my sub runs out(not likely); I will not be too under geared.

Daily bump. Also, daily reminder to the nay-sayers that this is in the accepted bug forum, so SE at least acknowledges that it's worth investigating. Another daily reminder that Yoshida himself has said the server only updates your position every .3 seconds. That's a built in 300 ms delay across the board, though could be smaller depending on where you land in the "positional update" rotation. That part is luck based.

It's much like how all dots tick server side, if your dot applies at the wrong time in the server interval you get less ticks per cast.

So many people keep mistaking this for a complain about Titan thread that I'm tempted to make a completely different thread with a title like "Requesting Official SE response on .3 positional update delay"

we'd have to wait another 125 pages with no official reply in the new thread anyways.

I haven't had any trouble doing content so far, but I find that the margin of error is too small considering the lack of responsiveness. For the record, my computer is amazing, so hardware does not factor into this.

Let's take an easy example: trying to stun a caster mob.
Cast takes let's say, 3 seconds.
So, mob starts casting. It probably takes about .5s for me to notice it's the "Cure" spell, because I have to read it since all spell casts look generally the same minus the text.
Takes another .5s+ for the key to be pressed, the game to recognize it's been pressed, and even begin to process the idea of this ability.
Takes another FULL SECOND, for my character to go through a ridiculously long animation for the ability.
Takes another .25s or so for the game to register that it hit.

I would expect to have at least 1.5s to react to a 3s cast bar, not less than a second.