"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Those that seem to have constant stories where these issues of dps pulling ahead arise? You're the only common denominator for your problem. Take the fucking hint.

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Aaaah, the all-powerful telepaths of the forum. I'll take the liberty of answering for everyone who's written posts like mine, since I'm involved: I've never had this problem as a tank, only when I was a dps. So... Your comment falls a bit flat. Yes, dps who pull ahead of tanks can be a pain in the arse, and no, it's not just ‘bad player’ tanks who think they're a pain in the arse.

Having said that, the subject is really quite simple: if you can't waste 5 minutes more than necessary in a dungeon, then you don't have time to do a PF roulette. Don't do it.

It’s confusing that there’s debate about whether or not it’s ok for dps to pull ahead.

If either the tank or healer are good at the game, or the tank is a Warrior, then wall to wall pulls almost never go badly unless it’s an ARR dungeon. It doesn’t cause problems.

If someone pulls ahead in a way that the tank can’t reasonably grab aggro before the person dies (eg, sprinting immediately while people are still rolling for a boss’s loot), then that person is griefing.

If it turns out the tank and healer actually can’t handle wall to wall pulls and then someone keeps pulling ahead, then that person is griefing.

Saying “you pull you tank” is weird because you might as well try the pull and see if there’s an actual problem. And if you’re not amazing at tank or healer then things can still potentially be ok if the other support player is pressing their buttons.

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Originally Posted by Voryn

sprinting immediately while people are still rolling for a boss’s loot

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You're actually trolling if you spend more than two seconds on loot. Plus, you can choose need/greed/pass while running.

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Originally Posted by Red-thunder

You're actually trolling if you spend more than two seconds on loot. Plus, you can choose need/greed/pass while running.

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What happened to your fake concern for the disabled? Not applicable anymore?

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Originally Posted by Red-thunder

You're actually trolling if you spend more than two seconds on loot. Plus, you can choose need/greed/pass while running.

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on controller it is sadly harder to do then mouse and keyboard

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

on controller it is sadly harder to do then mouse and keyboard

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hum... not so since you can still moove and d-pad for loot o.o

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Originally Posted by CalvinDescoles

hum... not so since you can still moove and d-pad for loot o.o

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trust me I fuck up all the time when I do that x)

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

trust me I fuck up all the time when I do that x)

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You find it harder and i can understand that, but everything is made to make it easy ^^ you can't really say it is overall harder tho

Still bad!

I'll never understand the ypyt people. You're doing me a favor if you pull them towards me.

YPYT is a weak mindset and peopel should get rid of it

It's also a reportable offense if the tank lets you die. And then when they actually get in trouble for it, then they want to call the ff14 community a bunch of soft crybabies because you can't do what you want.

If you are willing to pull it, then you are willing to tank it.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

If you are willing to pull it, then you are willing to tank it.

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I dunno how someone looks around the room, reads the vibes, and then has the gall to actually say something like this out loud.

Who necroe'd this shit!?... Oh, it's Titanmen. I should've guessed it.

Nothing to see here, folks. Just move along.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

If you are willing to pull it, then you are willing to tank it.

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A tank that's not willing to tank because someone pulled ahead is no longer a tank and, thus, taking an actual tank's spot.

You do the YPYT act in my presence, you sure as hell are getting the hard end of my boot.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I dunno how someone looks around the room, reads the vibes, and then has the gall to actually say something like this out loud.

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Because if you attack a mob that I have not yet aggro'd, then you are absolutely willing to take damage from it, until I am able to take it off of you.

It's just simple realism.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Because if you attack a mob that I have not yet aggro'd, then you are absolutely willing to take damage from it, until I am able to take it off of you.

It's just simple realism.

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And if you don't take it off them then you're going to have three people reporting you for griefing and wasting their time because you decided to be petty.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

And if you don't take it off them then you're going to have three people reporting you for griefing and wasting their time because you decided to be petty.

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Lotta assumptions being made here in apropos of nothing.

Curious behavior.

Ugh, this thread again...Can we just put it to bed and say that if you follow the YPYT mentality you're essentially just being a prick? Your job is a Tank, you take majority of damage. Simple as that while DPS do damage. The in-game Hall of the Novice talks about this in their Tank Dialogue enough times that it should be ingrained into people's minds after they do it, so just do your job and Tank like a Tank should.

It is amusing each time this thread gets necro'd again and again.

A tanks pulling aggro anyway if you pull the mob towards their AoE. IF you're out in the middle of no where, or attacking mobs not pulled and not bringing them? I mean... ya... you're tanking if the tank doesn't see this or the group has moved forwards.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

It is amusing each time this thread gets necro'd again and again.

A tanks pulling aggro anyway if you pull the mob towards their AoE. IF you're out in the middle of no where, or attacking mobs not pulled and not bringing them? I mean... ya... you're tanking if the tank doesn't see this or the group has moved forwards.

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YPYT ppl generally do not aoe and will go out of their way not to pull hate off you even if you are standing on top of them.

Y'now, as someone who Tanks fairly frequently, I basically do every roulette on a different role, I have never experienced a DPS pulling ahead of me, maybe it's just the way I carry myself, sprinting between pulls, gap closer to the nearest mob as soon as they come in range assuming the skill is available, wtw unless I have a damn good reason to not, so on, there is very little room for a DPS to get ahead of me unless they are extremely dedicated to doing so, and even if they do, I will be so close behind them getting slightly ahead will not mean much, so I usually have a hard time understanding "yeah I am always going as fast as I can and they are still pulling ahead"... my brother in Hydaelyn... how?

Inversely, when I am on DPS, I had a lot of situations where I had Tanks get mad at me for running ahead, not pulling ahead, I was moving slightly ahead of the Tank and, at least visually, "leading the pack", I'd even stop for a moment to let the Tank move ahead when we got near mobs, but also there are times where I will zone out and move to the next pack without looking at the Tank, when that happens it is never a big deal, just pop Arm's Length, and deliver to the Tank a pack of pre-Slow'd mobs, if the Tank is somehow still far, I just run back and gap close to them, you see, I have this really silly set up on my HUD that lets me gap close to allies without having to target them, but it has improved my experience with ally gap closers a lot, it rarely gets used in combat, and I need to click it to work, but it works wonders, as a result I will always be directly next to the Tank and way ahead of the mobs, giving the ample opportunity to grab them without them posing any further threat to me. If they still refuse even after that, well, I think they made their intent clear.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Lotta assumptions being made here in apropos of nothing.

Curious behavior.

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Not an assumption at all. Your own comments are you literally snitching on yourself.

It's a weird power trip mindset where the person desperately wants to be the shining protagonist of some story and the other party members are just background characters that cater to the whims of the tank, can't blame them if they are playing warrior though, they literally are 3 roles moulded into 1 job.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

YPYT ppl generally do not aoe and will go out of their way not to pull hate off you even if you are standing on top of them.

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Called me crazy, but aren't tanks wall to wall pulling anyway? If they are attacking one mob and running, just boot the tank.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Called me crazy, but aren't tanks wall to wall pulling anyway? If they are attacking one mob and running, just boot the tank.

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ARR dungeons still have a few odd routes and ways others tend to go.
For instance, in Qarn it is normal now to ignore picking up the statues for the room before the final boss, yet some might still attempt to walk into the rooms of those and trigger a aggro.
There's also Cutter's Cry with their other ways around the underground lakes, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

ARR dungeons still have a few odd routes and ways others tend to go.
For instance, in Qarn it is normal now to ignore picking up the statues for the room before the final boss, yet some might still attempt to walk into the rooms of those and trigger a aggro.
There's also Cutter's Cry with their other ways around the underground lakes, I believe.

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If in ARR dungeons, you'd not want to pull as DPS anyway. Tanks normally are lacking their easy buttons and just have base mitigation tools. Had a zealous bard kept pulling packs to a tank in one, who was out of mitigation from previous pulls, resulted in said tank dying.

Ya, you can skip many things, since they re-did a few especially for Trusts etc. But 50 and below, some even 60 and below, Tanks can struggle if pull too many if not an experienced tank.

Plenty people with that crappy mindset showing their faces in the new player etiquette thread. Baffling people don't think blatant griefing is a problem. Glad I don't have to deal with such people.

arent 120 pages enough to proof we wont ever come to one conclusion everyone agrees on?

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Originally Posted by Skiros

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. Tanks shouldn't do this!

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

Call me old school, but it's a good thing. If a DPS goes ahead and pulls things when I'm not ready to grab them, then it's on that player to handle them until I can.

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For me, I'll get to them as soon as I can. Generally, I haven't had a problem, and whenever someone has an enemy I aoe, no problem. However, I do think an issue is when DPS pull and don't bring them back to the tank. Hasn't happened to me, but has happened to my friend, and they were running towards them. I mean, to me, DPS should bring it back to the tank if the tank already has enemies because that means, more enemies to group up, more damage to spread on all enemies, less time spent right?

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Originally Posted by Asari5

arent 120 pages enough to proof we wont ever come to one conclusion everyone agrees on?

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Im not going to agree to that! Thats it, 120 more pages!

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Originally Posted by Asari5

arent 120 pages enough to proof we wont ever come to one conclusion everyone agrees on?

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Im not going to agree to that! Thats it, 120 more pages!

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At this point I just chalk it up to player boredom lol.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

NGL I don't follow the logic here. The sentiment displayed in this phrase is an admission to how easy to do said job, it's just pure ego reigning supreme here which prevents that from happening.

Wouldn't it be more logical to have such visceral response if the offending act has more dire consequences?

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So you think the logical solution is to pander to the problem. I have to differ in my opinion, the way to fix the problem is to:
first: let them know it is an issue. I fully understand not every one understands MMOs.
Second: Let them see just how much quicker it goes when they behave.

That is not some ad hoc visceral response; it is pure logic on social mechanics.

Would I be doing it if it caused a wipe every time, yep, most certainly. In fact that would only encourage me more. I get saddened when I see the healer keeping these trolls alive. The more consequences to their actions the better. Although the burning question has to be, would people still be trolling in this fashion if they knew that every tank would take this stance. I think I know where my money would go.

Causing someone to die for any reason other than strictly "I will die if I attempt to handle any more mobs than I am currently" is what is trolling, I will always heal a DPS pulling, because they are right.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Causing someone to die for any reason other than strictly "I will die if I attempt to handle any more mobs than I am currently" is what is trolling, I will always heal a DPS pulling, because they are right.

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That would be your call. I have never gave any player grief for keeping a troll dps alive. But since your search link is hidden. Do you actually have a healing class? Or is this just an excuse to push the narrative because it is something that you are guilty of also?

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Originally Posted by syldon

That would be your call. I have never gave any player grief for keeping a troll dps alive. But since your search link is hidden. Do you actually have a healing class? Or is this just an excuse to push the narrative because it is something that you are guilty of also?

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I play every role, I have every Job at 100 and Scholar is my main healer, and I do different roulettes as different roles, based on que times or how I am feeling each day, this is something you can easily see in my Lodestone page, which is not private, I just double checked as much, and my character name and world server are clearly visible under my name. Please don't make baseless accusations that can be absurdly easily disproved.

I tank as well by the way, as Paladin primarily, the way I see it, if the DPS was able to pull ahead, it's skill issue from my part, means there was room for me to move faster.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I play every role, I have every Job at 100 and Scholar is my main healer, and I do different roulettes as different roles, based on que times or how I am feeling each day, this is something you can easily see in my Lodestone page, which is not private, I just double checked as much, and my character name and world server are clearly visible under my name. Please don't make baseless accusations that can be absurdly easily disproved.

I tank as well by the way, as Paladin primarily, the way I see it, if the DPS was able to pull ahead, it's skill issue from my part, means there was room for me to move faster.

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Then it is best we agree to disagree. Nothing you are saying is changing my mind. The idea that DPS can dictate the pace is ludicrous to me, and if you do it when I am tanking then you only have yourself to blame.

Okay wanna know what this boils down to, to me? the simple fact that, barring exceptional circumstances like that lavish last pull in Mt. Gulg, going as fast as one can is easy, it's easy at 50, it only gets easier as the time goes on, I wouldn't have this standard if every pull was Mt. Gulg, but it isn't like that, even ARR leveling dungeons aren't like that if your Healer knows what you are about.

Now, there are things to respect, I am not going to expect a Gladiator in Haukke to be pulling wtw, I feel they should be encouraged to try, and even if they wipe, you can't learn to ride a bike without scraping your knees a few tim, or if they are just moving through the MSQ and their gear clearly is meeting the bare minimum for the dungeon, but I feel very strongly that if someone's gear outlevels the content they are in by 30+, maybe some expectations are fair.

I will also add that there should be expectations all around, a Healer that is constantly Freecure fishing and never AoEs, or a DPS that is constantly at the bottom of the enmity list and has visibly put no effort into learning the ins and outs of the job they are playing, should be equally called out, the focus exists on Tanks because their way of slacking is much more visible.

These are two different issues. A good tank will give pace while staying alive. This post is about dps deciding they should pull for the tank. My opinion that it is not a way to speed the run up. It takes 2-3 GCDs to capture those mobs back as they spread out. It is one thing complaining that some tanks are slow and another giving credence that DPS should be the ones dictating the pace. Even with a slow tank I would never pull for him. The dungeon lasts 20 minutes at worst. Is it really so hard to be courteous for that length of time?

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Originally Posted by syldon

These are two different issues. A good tank will give pace while staying alive. This post is about dps deciding they should pull for the tank. My opinion that it is not a way to speed the run up. It takes 2-3 GCDs to capture those mobs back as they spread out. It is one thing complaining that some tanks are slow and another giving credence that DPS should be the ones dictating the pace. Even with a slow tank I would never pull for him. The dungeon lasts 20 minutes at worst. Is it really so hard to be courteous for that length of time?

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if u need 2-3 GCD's to get aggro of some mobs you're prolly undergeared asf