Queued up as White Mage to do P2 normal for Wonderous Trails and to my surprise I had a Conjurer as a co healer. People asked him why he didn't have a job stone and he says he had forgotten it. He ended up most of the fight dieinng over and over and because of that I didn't bother raising him anymore and resorted to solo healing instead. Was a bit of a struggle and challenge but we managed to clear it without wiping the whole party and I even received 5 commedations for it. So that was fun.
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08-06-2022, 09:37 PMZer0Zoler0
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08-06-2022, 11:04 PMImpishwerth
I've had this happen in other content, too... but... how do you forget it? Is there something people do without their stones when they're not doing content?
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08-06-2022, 11:11 PMRein_eon_Osborne
My guess is they did not make the gearset that includes the job crystal. What they did was equipping the weapon then click recommended gears.
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08-07-2022, 12:08 AMRobynDaBankYeah, I had a friend who did just that and refused to make gear sets. He managed to go into a dungeon with no Job Stone as a healer as well once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
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08-07-2022, 01:49 AMTMW001
When sages came out a friend and I were testing them out by running dungeons had one dps tell me I should do my heals only with Kardia and not use Diagnosis for better healing that flared up my friend cause one that's god awful way to heal as a Sage and two the guy was standing in front of cleaves and tank busters at a point we wondered if he was trolling or legit had no idea how healing works.
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08-07-2022, 02:35 AMweebtextThat dps was half-right, Diagnosis shouldn't really be used unless you've completely run out of resources. It's basically cure 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMW001
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08-07-2022, 02:51 AMAnotherPersonWell.. he was actually right. You ARE supposed to rely on Kardia to do a large portion of your healing -- this is primarily because most of Sage's healing power is from healing abilities, which are skills that require no GCD to use. That means you can heal between your Kardia procs, making Kardia an effective regen as long as you activate it consistently. Diagnosis is more of a last-resort skill and good Sages rarely touch it, if ever. The vast majority of the dungeons don't need Diagnosis. Even pre-level 30, you can get away with using Kardia to heal your teammate instead of Diagnosis for a large portion of the dungeon because it's an effective way to apply a mini regen over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMW001
As they say, the most effective form of mitigation against enemies is dead enemies. Dead enemies can't do damage, and in large packs, Kardia is essentially a regen that can overpower the enemy's autos if there aren't enough to do damage. At higher levels, you just add more oGCD healing abilities, but the concept is the same. -
08-07-2022, 02:52 AMTMW001
No he wanted me to just let kardia do all the healing not use diagnosis at all obvious Im gonna have kardia slapped on the tank that how sage works the dps wanted me to just deal damage only for my heals.
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08-07-2022, 03:28 AMweebtextYeah that's how sage works, it's mostly just slapping on a shield and using ogcds. If you're actually casting diagnosis you're kinda wasting a cast, you'll heal more if you weave a Druochole while dpsing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMW001
Unless you're saying they didn't want you to use ogcds as well, in which case they'd be wrong on that front. -
08-07-2022, 07:06 AMRilifaneIf he suggested only using Kardia and nothing else, not even oGCDs, he was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMW001
Regardless of what he suggested though, you just implied that you rely on Diagnosis and that's the weakest of all your heals while also costing a GCD. The goal is generally to heal with your Abilities/ oGCDs first and only when that is definitely not enough you start using GCD heals. Kardia is effectively a free permanent regen as long as you keep dpsing so the less you drop dps for GCD healing, the better. Applies to all healers of course but SGE also loses Kardia heals when GCD healing.
So Haima/ Panhaima, Physis, Kera, Tauro, Druo etc. are your priority for healing.
Diagnosis is... really weak. Even sub 30, Kardia heals and Physis cover a large portion of the required healing. -
08-07-2022, 06:35 PMPacketdancer
This is a self-shame/self-rant. See, I haven't really played PLD since ShB (until today), save for the numerous PotD runs I've been doing with friends and my serious attempts at getting those last floors on a solo run. This is worth noting, because PotD syncs you to level 60, and Requiescat is at level 68.
(Cue ominous background music.)
Anyway, PLD and DRK are the only jobs I have left to get to 90 now, so I took PLD into trial roulette today. I got Diamond Weapon normal.
As you might guess from the first paragraph of this post, I was 2/3 of the way through the trial before I remembered "WAIT I'M NOT LEVEL 60 IN HERE, AND PALADIN HAS A MAGIC ROTATION AT LEVEL 80."
*sigh* -
08-07-2022, 07:11 PMSeseraI had a similar experience back in stormblood after getting level 50 or below duties with my blm I decided to do normal raid roulette and got pepsi man. I never used Fire 4 and anything above 50 for 75% of the fight because I thought it was a 50 dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Packetdancer
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08-08-2022, 06:13 AMPacketdancerOof. Black mage is also the worst possible job for "wait, which level am I synched to again?" Some jobs change up their core rotation every 10 levels or so; black mage seems to do so every 5-7 levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesera
(I admittedly exaggerate for comedic effect here... but it's not that much of an exaggeration, either.) -
08-08-2022, 06:38 AMronibosch
It wasn't a bad experience, but I remember last year when I was still a Lalafell, and the mentor in our party patted me on the head before the final boss in Toto-Rak. I know it is an understandably patronizing emote for a lot of Lala players, but it made me feel so happy...I miss head pats.
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08-08-2022, 06:44 AMRilifaneBLM always has a 2nd rouletted tacked onto the DF one: rotation roulette.Quote:
Originally Posted by Packetdancer
I personally always found it quite refreshing and gives me something to pay attention to during roulettes but I know a lot of people who hated it to the point of dropping BLM. One day they'll learn just how much they missed out ... -
08-08-2022, 09:26 AMSturmChurroI hadn't played PLD in so long, and even before it was my least played tank, that when I started getting queued up into the later Endwalker dungeon(s), I didn't realize the change in rotation. So my DPS was definitely lower than it should have been. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Packetdancer
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08-08-2022, 10:25 AMStanazolol
Are big pulls common in Aurum Vale? Been speeding it for the tomes, so I've run it a lot, I know what to pull and where to pull it to, and what can be skipped. Have never had a problem until recently had a wipe and then another half wipe with a healer and dps dead and the whole group was bitching about the size of the pulls and how hard it was to heal. The healer went oom on the first boss and then the whining started. I've never had other healers complain about it being too hard on them, but the fact the whole group was whining and bitching makes me wonder now. I would ask at the start of the dungeon, but like I said 99% of the time doesn't seem like anyone is struggling.
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08-08-2022, 07:34 PMRein_eon_Osborne
Zodiark Normal via Trial roulette as a WHM. I saw:
https://i.gyazo.com/eee46817b2e2b290...79b2a5b79f.png
:') -
08-08-2022, 08:15 PMBRVVWhat are the iLevels of these?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
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08-08-2022, 08:18 PMRein_eon_OsborneThose are Dai-Ryumyaku set, save the earring being Menphina's so... i370 plus that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRVV
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08-08-2022, 08:26 PMBRVVSo that person is Level 80+ and wears gear that is 60 iLevels under the tomestone gear of Level 70? YikesQuote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
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08-08-2022, 08:37 PMRein_eon_OsborneIf I have to make a wild guess, they probably been hanging in BSF to level for so long they forgot gears matters outside. Then bam, Zodiark says hi when they queued into roulette.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRVV
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08-08-2022, 08:40 PMRilifaneEvery time one of my friends joined for a roulette and said "My gear is outdated but as long as we don't get the highest duty, it'll be fine" it backfired hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
You get a string of ARR trials - until you're undergeared for your level, then it'll be the likes of Zodiark. Or better yet, get thrown into Planetflinger. -
08-08-2022, 09:19 PMCurisu
Oh yeah, fully geared on a class you like to play.
Trails are ARR ones and leveling is always sub 50 dungeons.
Once you go on a class you don't bother to equip well because you don't want to actively play it. Bam, highest possible dungeon and trail.
Had already situations were I just left because of my extremely low gear and because I didn't had all available spells in my hot bars. -
08-08-2022, 09:26 PMTheMightyMollusk
Towards the end of Shadowbringers, I decided to dust off black mage (which I hadn't played in over a year) and figured Crystal Tower Roulette would be safe enough. I got eleven days straight of the Tower at Paradigm's Breech instead.
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08-08-2022, 10:12 PMRobynDaBank
How does one do the big-boy pulls in Bardam's Mettle as DRK? Halp... I've had not a single successful big first pull.
Edit to mention, I finally understand the grating annoyance of not having your Living Dead have a chance to actually stretch its legs. I got yelled at for using no defensives when I pressed it... you're the one who Benediction-ed me to full at the hourglass buff, WHM... -
08-08-2022, 11:08 PMDeverynBardam can be rough as any tank. Everyone has to be on their game and properly geared for things to go well on big pulls. How big are you talking on the first pull? Going all the way to the walls doesn't end well most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobynDaBank
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08-08-2022, 11:59 PMSnowVixTrial by Fire (IV)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
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08-09-2022, 12:31 AMAnotherPersonIf you don't put a macro with a sound effect indication, most players assume the tank is just dumb or ran out of mitigations before seeing the tank invuln activate, which will prompt them to heal ahead of time. This is generally the most common reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobynDaBank
Most healers already experience tanks who don't mitigate / ran out of mitigation from poor rotation and will then blame the healer after dropping low on HP/dying, so healers generally don't risk it without clear communication. Other times, the Invuln buff is hidden by the various other buffs on the status bar next to the party menu or the healer isn't glued to staring at your status bar.
Or the healer is just AFK healing, who knows. You can still get away with spamming Cure II in Bardam I think. -
08-09-2022, 01:08 AMPaduduI think a loooot of healers are still used to how old living dead operates, so they just automatically bene when they see the red hourglass pop and don't realize that it's not needed. So after Robyn popped LD the healer bene'd thinking she wasn't using any mits lol and didn't see/know what new LD does now.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherPerson
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08-09-2022, 01:12 AMRobynDaBankYeah I was going all the way to the walls on the first one - well, trying to. I have a habit of pressing my invulnerability right at the start once mobs are gathered enough so that the moment with the most enemies whacking at me can be cushioned out. I remember it going okay-ish on WAR, but it's been undoable as DRK so at some point I stopped bothering. Glad to have passed that dungeon's level bracket honestly. Leveling GNB through there is going to be the worst... IDK, I don't mean to flame on healers for not being able to manage that - heck, back when I was leveling my healers I most likely wasn't able to either. It's more annoyance at the LD issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
I've encountered quite a few Cure spammers just going through Stormblood these past days. Think I had one in Bardam's today even.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherPerson
I guess I get it... LD is kind of complicated IMO - not meaning to rag at the skill - so I suppose not everyone understands what it is. I had some people not understanding Holmgang either, and I definitely was calling out that I'll pop it. Guess I shouldn't have laxed out when I started DRK. Will try to think of a chat macro for it, I'm usually averse to those since I have a tendency to fat-finger and don't want to end up spamming it accidentally. Seems it's necessary on here though. -
08-09-2022, 01:48 AMOizen
I honestly wouldn't use Living dead until you're around 15% health, maybe even lower. The average duty finder healer is only paying the bare minimum of attention, they see low health, they heal you, no macro or anything else will change that.
As for how to handle Bardam as DRK, its rough, and I think the hardest content for DRK is anything in the 60-70 range as you approach TBN levels of damage without actually having TBN. DRK was shafted way back when during a rework where they removed DRK's tools to survive dungeon pulls and replaced them with absolutely nothing. It got worse in EndWalker when they arbitrarily nerfed Abyssal Drain even further by tying it to Carve and Spit. This is how a Heavensward class you start at lv 30 doesn't even start to feel complete until lv 70.
You really can't do this content with wall to wall pulls without a decent healer, the most you can do is make sure you're digging into every single tool you have available to you, maximize the usage of Arm's Length for its slow on trash mobs, make sure you're machine gunning damage out as hard as you can, without TBN theres no real reason you shouldn't just be blowing all your mana at once, take advantage of blood weapon and stalwart soul to get out more Floods and Queitus and try to kill things as quickly as possible.
I ususally try to keep at least 2 mitigations up at a time, Ususally something like Arms Length + Shadow Wall, wait for that to finish, Reprisial, Rampart, use Abyssal Drain as needed, make sure you launch it at an enemy in the dead center of the mob pack, but there are times when you're just going to have to slow down,
DRK is just one of many classes that feel terrible under level sync, and honestly has gotten worse over time as the game has changed. -
08-09-2022, 02:14 AMRaoabolicGEE SE, WHY DOES WAR GET TWO FORMS OF SUSTAIN IN THE FORM OF A HEAL AND HP DRAIN BY LV 56 BUT YOU ARE OKAY TAKING ALL THAT HP SUSTAIN FROM DRK AND GAVE IT TO WAR WHILE I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL 70 FOR A BUBBLE?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oizen
YES, I'M STILL SALTY ABOUT THAT ONE SE, THANKS FOR ASKING! HOW WAS YOUR DAY? -
08-09-2022, 02:18 AMOizenI'm personally trying to figure out why we bothered to absolutely gut Abyssal Drain when they're ok with Bloodwhetting being so hilariously powerful that its very likely that average dungeon content will never be even remotely challenging again if you use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoabolic
For all purposes, that skill might as well just be a invul on a 25 sec cd for how hard it is to use. (In Dungeons anyway, its not that insane for raid content) -
08-09-2022, 03:21 AMSturmChurroWhenever I've gotten Bardam, I've found the tanking to be quite easy compared to how it was in the past. The thing about a lot of initial big pulls is that you have to hope your party is ready for it. I'd say the hardest large pull - that I've done recently - is probably the initial pull in Mt. Gulg. Other WHM healers can be pretty hit or miss, that's for sure. They typically waste quite a few of their more vital heals, especially something like benediction for DRKs or GNB. Although, many GNB panic hit their thing and that is kind of annoying as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobynDaBank
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08-09-2022, 02:02 PMKaedysI've argued for a while that job stones should be flat out mandatory for all group content at and above level 50. As in, the duty finder simply won't let you queue for anything above Aurum Veil without one equipped. It gives players plenty of buffer time after level 30 to get it, which tbh is really only relevant if you've got a metric pile of XP buffs (including Road to 70 (or is it 80 now?)). But 50 is plenty enough time for that. Just flat out ban the base classes from participating in those dungeons unless it's in unrestricted party mode. There's literally no valid reason to be running without a job stone at that level. The only reason people do it is a mistake (which the queue barring you from participating with a message that it requires a job stone equipped would fix) or trolling (which it wouldn't actually fix, but it would require them to find some other more obvious and reportable method of trolling).Quote:
Originally Posted by Zer0Zoler0
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08-09-2022, 02:07 PMRein_eon_OsborneAlternatively, lock all lv30/50 or higher equipments to jobs with job crystals like Relic Weapons does (i.e. you cannot equip nor glam Nirvana Zeta if you’re a CNJ at any level).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedys
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08-09-2022, 02:19 PMKaedysI've run a lot of Ex3 as WAR, and tbh, I universally tank LB3 the quad planet if it's blue into red. It can be used to survive the tower afterwards if people die to the planets, but it can also be used on the planets to keep people from dying in the first place, and then you don't have to deal with the rezes and debuffs. I just got frustrated with 50% of pulls resulting in a wipe when they hit that point because 95% of PF groups have 2+ people, often 4+, die to a blue->red planet combo because they can't figure out how to position correctly for it. And a tank LB3 will keep you alive through a planet hit, so /shrug.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorSpoils
Edit: I also sorta miss the first few weeks after EW released, when I kept getting Trial rouletted into the normal version of Endsinger (as RPR), and people would lose their bloody minds when I LB3'd the add during the intermission. "OMG you just wiped us". No, no I actually didn't.
I like this idea as well. Either one would work. But I think locking the duty finder (either solely or as well) would be more robust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
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08-09-2022, 02:57 PMPacketdancerNot by default, no; a lot of folks who are new to the dungeon will struggle with big pulls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanazolol
That said, lately I've seen a lot of people blitzing it for the moogle tomes, and I will admit, if I'm tanking and get the Vale right now, if I see that everyone in the party has the job they're on at 90, I will absolutely offer to go ham with the pulls, because—as you point out—it's certainly possible. As I imagine you know, only the first room is that tricky, and for that one you can just hug the left wall, grab everything you have to run through, pull them into the boss room, and kill them there before pulling the boss. Scoot to the side once you're in the boss room (breaking line of sight) and if the toad has come along for the ride will often hit the end of its tether and wander back off, leaving you a relatively small number of things to kill.
Even still, I've seen experienced players mess up. Usually it's just because there's so many overlapping AoEs, and if the healer gets careless and gets hit by a morbol (and doesn't have Echo Drops, like us Deep Dungeon aficionados do)... well, they're silenced, and it may make for a Bad Day for others.
So if I see anyone who's not level-synced or who has a sprout icon, I will definitely play it slightly more cautious by default.
See, if I'm in Mt. Gulg (as that's the pull you mentioned) as GNB and see I've got a WHM, I'll just outright tell the WHM "I'm gonna go ham on the pull and then hit Bolide once everything's gathered, just as an FYI." Usually this gets a thumbs-up, I do exactly what I said I would, the WHM Bene's me, and we all enjoy the invuln for a bit as we just burn everything down.Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
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08-09-2022, 03:02 PMSturmChurroYou just kind of have to hope the healer and your party is awake. The last time I did this pull, the hrothgar SAM on my team went afk midpull, and said he had a work call (after we got to first boss, he said this). I don't think that healer could have handled it anyway, to be fair. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Packetdancer