What jobs are we hoping to see in the next expansion?

A Damage type of Dancer Healer i think would keep people more engaged as currently many healers get bored while healing.
Tank i really have no idea what to suggest but it would need to be something totally different then what we have currently or so is my hope. SE like to re-use assets so who knows, lol

it will be the best to know from which level the new job will start, for sure from 60lvl?

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Originally Posted by ForctyusGold

it will be the best to know from which level the new job will start, for sure from 60lvl?

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I'd guess 50 so people can do most of the story with it (like SAM/RDM)

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Funny thing about BST (and I know many won't agree with me on this) is that I think it could actually be made into another DoL class. But it wouldn't be a pushover like the current DoL classes. This one can and needs to fight outworld mobs to work. It can be designed in a way to make gathering 'kill-mats' (skins, blood, wings, fangs, etc.) far more efficient than with a retainer or hunting with a DoW/DoM class.

Crap! I think this just might be the best idea I've ever posted on these forums. Why isn't this already a thing?! lol

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They did have preliminary plans for a shepherd class pre-1.0. And actually, this isn't a half bad idea. I'm sure most people would agree that the drop rates on mats from monsters is god-awful, and BST in this role could have a boosted amount. The pets you use probably wouldn't amount to much more than flavor, but if they didn't have to give each one a specific purpose they'd be free to let you have your choice of critter. I'd say have the BST itself still be pretty useless in battle, maybe less squishy than other gatherers, but the pet does the legwork. Their various skills would be used to buff the pet, guarantee HQ drops on the next kill, and otherwise translate typical HoL skills to combat results. They could pair this with a needed change to combat retainers, upping their max returns on an item to 20 like the others.

Some of these items might be covered in other thoughts, but I would love to see these 2:

Elemental-Magic Tank
Weapon: a handle / hilt / grip. The tank would imbue the grip with one of the elemental affinities. it would create the weapon and add a benefit/debuff (10% chance) if there was a critical hit on the mob. Their skills would be the same for all the weapon types, but attuned to the elemental affinity.

• fire weapon = burning debuff
  ice weapon = slow debuff
  air weapon = attack speed buff
  water = heal over time buff
  electricity = shocking debuff (paralysis)
  earth = defense buff

Chanter/Aura Healer
Weapon: Shakujo (Buddhist ringed staff) They would chant/use aura to heal those in close proximity to them (melee healer). Their main heals would be in the fact that the auras/chants are up almost all the time(max 2 auras). A visual aspect of the chant finishing would be the tap of the staff on the ground and the rings chime.

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Originally Posted by Portah_Potty

Some of these items might be covered in other thoughts, but I would love to see these 2:

Elemental-Magic Tank
Weapon: a handle / hilt / grip. The tank would imbue the grip with one of the elemental affinities. it would create the weapon and add a benefit/debuff (10% chance) if there was a critical hit on the mob. Their skills would be the same for all the weapon types, but attuned to the elemental affinity.

• fire weapon = burning debuff
  ice weapon = slow debuff
  air weapon = attack speed buff
  water = heal over time buff
  electricity = shocking debuff (paralysis)
  earth = defense buff

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so would you like to see it as a "tanky" version of rdm mechanically?

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Originally Posted by Ordoric

so would you like to see it as a "tanky" version of rdm mechanically?

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RDM isn't the pioneer of weapon enchantment that title goes to Mystic Knight or Rune Knight I don't remember which came first.

The only FF that I can remember RDM using weapon enchantments are in FFXI and that game doesn't define the series.

Mystic knight in FF5

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Dancer is so much different from other healers esthetically and thematically, that them making a dancer healer and not making it somehow unique would be quite a challenge.

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I believe there is at this point enough evidence to easily wager they'd be up to that challenge.

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I mean, another caster is just going to be another caster. But a non-caster doing what's normally considered a magical feat? That requires some thought put into it to be reasonable, so unless they want to make a completely different class and just slap on "Dancer" on its title...yeah. They'll have to go original or go bust.

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I don't mean to merely pull on semantic threads here, but aren't Paladins and Dark Knights already examples of that? And yet that fact alone holds almost no differentiating mechanics; their CD flow, banking, and sense of prepositioning as made necessary by certain encounters does far more to influence the feeling of their gameplay then whether the swordsman is "ooh! ahhh!" spending GCDs on damage that happens to be classified as magic. Types aren't really felt. Their consequences are. And there is a long stretch between simply being different do to x factor and feeling different -- having different opportunities/responsibilities bestowed/thrust upon you. You can't assume that the prior will cause the latter.

And while I'd love to say sure, of course it's a case of "go original or go bust"... that still leaves the option of going bust -- and, as you're latter half posits, being satisfied with that.

As for the latter half of your response...

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Originally Posted by kikix12

And yet...no one really seems to care for healers/tanks to have some uniqueness to them in any way, shape or form. Tanks and healers are bland not only in mechanics, but also thematically, for the most part. Every cool class concept seems to be dragged into the DPS tree.

This is an MMO game. Comparing the jobs to a single-player game, where tanks or healers archetypes don't really exist in the same form, is bad. But there needs to be tanks and healers in an MMO that is based on the role trinity. Something needs to do that. Giving more generic "knight" sort for tanks and generic magical healing is just going to be extremely boring even beyond the mechanics. Healer/tank playing players want some really cool class concepts to be sent their way too.

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I... think you're preaching to the choir here? ...Though the questions below should clarify this more thoroughly.

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no one really seems to care for healers/tanks to have some uniqueness to them in any way, shape or form.

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So, people are content with homogeneity.

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Every cool class concept seems to be dragged into the DPS tree.

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Which is why I said, as things are now, only the DPS role seems remotely capable of giving Dancer any semblance of truly interesting (and, though of secondary importance, unique) gameplay -- whether that be based in part on former games or not.

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This is an MMO game. Comparing the jobs to a single-player game, where tanks or healers archetypes don't really exist in the same form, is bad.

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By that logic, imagining Dancer in any setting but XI and XIV's is inherently flawed. I can understand where you're coming from, but I fundamentally disagree.

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But there needs to be tanks and healers in an MMO that is based on the role trinity.

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"But"? What was inverted between "MMO classes can only be modelled after MMOs" and "Tanks and healers can only be built from the role trinity template"? I again disagree with both statements, but they seem cohesive to each other. Why the "but"? What am I missing?

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Giving more generic "knight" sort for tanks and generic magical healing is just going to be extremely boring even beyond the mechanics.

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So, people are content with homogeneity, but also bored by it? I'd usually consider these mostly mutually exclusive. (Granted, one can be contentedly bored, so there's that...)

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Healer/tank playing players want some really cool class concepts to be sent their way too.

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Again, I'm all for that. But a cool concept in theory does not necessarily make a cool concept in actual play.
Consider:

1. Take all the selling points one can imagine -- from sources new or old -- for a class like Dancer.
2. Imagine, thoroughly, how many of those things can survive being sifted into the healer/tank trinity templates. Or, how many are derivable directly from a tank/healer template as used for the other tanks and healers?

I'd wager the factors able to survive or be reverse-engineered through XIV's templates would be both a pitiful minority and insufficient for cohesive and satisfying gameplay.

Now, one could take the surviving factors, iterate upon them, and come up with something that is gameplay-enjoyable. And if that small chance actually meets success, I'd be happy with that. But I'd be in at most a thin majority; plenty others would despise the bastardization of a concept with more potential, seeing its implementation as a waste of all the things greater that the concept could have accomplished.


To be fair, we could still make a lot more interesting healers and tanks out of the role trinity if the community would allow it. But thus far, any advantage or disadvantage at any juncture of any encounter is met with serious criticism. A healer at least has a cohealer to compensate, more so than any main tank does, but we find that role's criticisms only faintly more lenient.

Consider the strengths and weaknesses of WoW's healing specializations: Restoration Shaman, Restoration Druid, Holy Paladin, Holy Priest, Discipline Priest, and Mistweaver Monk. Each of those has notably different niches, and though many now have a speedy mana-inefficient heal alongside a standard, slower, more mana-efficient one, most other parts of their toolkits do not overlap.

Personally, in those terms I see the ideal niche of Dancer as a blend between the Paladin, Monk, Shaman, and maybe the Discipline, in descending order of proximity -- healing concentrated in bursts of activity with notable downtime in which to weave supportive effects through combat, catching the momentum of its skills -- damaging or curative/supportive alike -- to upsurge output and play the synergist to its team, and finally -- during the effects of at least one song -- go ham on enemies as a way to heal those around him through that damage dealt. Altogether, it make for a generally balanced yet truly unique (pseudo)-healer job.

But that doesn't allow for consistent Cure-II-equivalents at x GCDs, raid heal ability blown at y minutes and z seconds, or shields of strength A or HoTs of strength B. And thus, to all spammable extents and purposes, it would be just a pseudo-healer, and just by distinction from the mostly indistinct other healers, it'd likely be considered overpowered in any situation that requires little overall healing, for its simultaneous output, and underpowered for any significant content. While I feel that for anything shorter in difficulty than Savage or greater in party count than a 4-man these perceived imbalances would be survivable, it's the community you'd likely have to convince even more than the developers, because, as -- as best I can understand from your words -- no one really seems to care that tanks and healers are just different slants of the same template, rather than built from their own style first and balanced only later, even while most of us are also simultaneously disappointed somewhat by each additional healer or tank that meets only those lackluster expectations. Uniqueness, or actual design from job concept first, with the template only a final check for parity, is inherently too unique at this point not to be seen as imbalanced. And even I'll agree with the community that a job's imbalance (especially towards overpoweredness), if general or frequent enough, can feel worse than the job never being added. That's the situation you're building for.

Without do steps to diversify the healers we have, is that really something you want to bring Dancer into, anywhere near its full potential?

I want a Dancer, a real Dancer -- not just in any XI traditional sense but in terms of every ounce of fun you can milk out of every concept, combat, lore, animation, quirks, and tangential elements to each, from the idea of a dancer. But without something in class design and how it's perceived budging beforehand -- which I want regardless of Dancer being added or not -- I honestly feel like being a supportive DPS akin to a Bard or Ninja will at least cut out fewer of its unique and interesting mechanics than would, say, a healer.

exactly as shurrikhan says is what I'm worried about when we talk about making dancer a healer.... in theory it may work but will it be the best fit for the job? It's also like we were considering possible making samurai a tank... could it have been done? Sure.... but is it the best fit for the job?... no it's not and thus it ended up being a cool dps. I really don't feel dancer's place is as a healer no matter how much people may want it to be so.... I hope the dev team heeds our words and see the logic in why dancer and all it's uniqueness fits far better as a dps than it ever will as a healer.