BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

All this talk of elemental affinities reminds me of the first time I ran Castrum Abania. I ran BLM, and I ran it blind. And then I hover my mouse over the boss buff to read that it has resistences to either lightning, fire, or ice.
You can imagine my panic until I realized all buffs are relevant to the encounter itself and no, SE didn't suddenly decide to screw BLMs over...

Okay, I've reached 50 with BLU and completed all of the solo spellbook entries and some instance entries as well. Cleared Masked Carnivale too, so here's my input:

1) BLU "endgame" content is as limited as the class' description:
It took me roughly 1 hour to beat all of the Masked Carnivale - the only fight which required me to look for external strategies was the Miss Typhon one. The only replayability in this is going back to defeat the encounters every week for the rewards. Other than that, there's nothing else to do as a Blue Mage in the game. Even if you're set into completing the spellbook, eventually it will be completed, but you don't really need the 5 star spells to beat the Masked Carnivale anyway.

What then? They really need to think about more stuff to do as a BLU. Maybe enable PotD, but for solo blue mages? Why not let us sync to level 70 for Eureka? It seems like a good call for them too, we could even use the elemental weaknesses there as well.

2) BLU is - not - a solo oriented job as advertised:
The soloing capabilities, yes, are bigger than other jobs at lv50, but HALF of the spellbook requires a group. There's no way to solo the level 50 dungeons. Okay, I'd get that the 5 star, primal spells, would require a party but that's just 5 spells. What about the others? Plus on top of that, there's the awful RNG... It's very disheartening to spend 40min with a 4 BLU group running dungeons to defeat the last boss and leave empty handed, especially when it's just a spell that is just for completion sake. I mean, who uses that ability granted by Zu in Pharos Sirius?


In the end, I'm also on the team that, with the use of specific - required to queue - spells, BLU could fill the dps-support niche together with MCH and BRD as a regular job, but realistically I don't think they'll change their mind on how the job plays.

Saying that, I really, honestly, wish that they improve the BLU experience at 5.0 launch to:

a) Have more relevant content to do at its level cap.
b) More reliable ways to obtain the 4 and 5 star spells. A bit less of RNG.
c) Don't want it to be a duty finder job? Fine, let us properly solo its "endgame" content by the use of strategies and different spells.

So I owe a formal apology to the Blue Salt that has been around since November FanFest.

Now I'm level 50, I did a good bunch of the Masked Carnival and only have a few skills to get on primals.

For me:
It's not fun to level up from 1 to 50 through mob grinding, even with the exploit.
It's not fun to form parties for a dungeon otherwise closed to BLU to get a skill (for solo content)
It's not fun to have 49 skills when almost 50% of them are either useless, one time use or a copy of another skill.
It's not fun to go through stages of the solo instance when it all comes down to roughly the same content : figuring which spell is mandatory to get through.
It's not fun to lock skills behind absurd RNG (100 Ramuh runs made it clear for me)

I think I'd rather have had a watered down blue mage to fit the FFXIV system, or no blue mage at all.

And a practical question:
Why can BLU job quests be locked behind the obtention of a skill, but DF can't be locked in the same way to prevent BLU to queue there, as it was Yoshi P's concern?

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...0517f88406.jpg

I stole this from reddit, but I feel this is relevant

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Why can BLU job quests be locked behind the obtention of a skill, but DF can't be locked in the same way to prevent BLU to queue there, as it was Yoshi P's concern?

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I think just because you have it unlocked, doesn't mean you'll have it equipped on your hotbar. Or some weak justification like that.
But that leads us, once again, to the double standard regarding BLU. Because there's no guarantee that anyone else has their on-level skills, given that 30-60 + 70 job skills are locked behind quests people might not do. And just because they have them, doesn't mean they'll use them, either.

A BLU player will not be better or worse than they are on other classes, is what it boils down to.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I mean, who uses that ability granted by Zu in Pharos Sirius?

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not going to argue any points just going to point out i do use flying frenzy as a cap closer especially at beginnings of fights for peculiar light it is very much a personal preference to use it as i also love going me blu me smash :P

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...0517f88406.jpg

I stole this from reddit, but I feel this is relevant

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Welp that's right. That's the only viable "rotation" for blu outside Carnival, since monsters doesn't have any weakness or special mechanic, all you can do is spamm the same over and over again.
Similar to the rest of classes wich all you do is repeat the same rotation, no matter wich boss you're facing; always the same.

Is it really too much to ask for new content? >_> I admit BLU content is quite boring now, and obtaining skills from EX content can be a pain, but it's a first step to new possibilities. Let's give it a chance and find new ways to improve it instead of erasing it from this new equation.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I admit BLU content is quite boring now, and obtaining skills from EX content can be a pain

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Put that quote on my gravestone.
Sadly, I doubt BLU will be the renaissance you hope for. Anything more you want them to do with the class would require changing the eco-system all the other jobs live in. Judging by what we know about ShB, it won't happen in 5.0 as 5.0 is a lot more of the same. So within that context, what we can expect for BLU is more spells as its level cap increases, and opens more party content for it to run, more job quests, some more stages of the Masked Carnivale you'll have to use those new spells in, and potentially better synergy into parties while keeping the original skills locked for the Masked Carnivale like they do for PvP skill swaps.
But if they do that last one what's the point of keeping it locked in the first place, which makes me think they won't do it, if only out of pride.

Agree with this dude

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Originally Posted by Mansion

It's not fun to level up from 1 to 50 through mob grinding, even with the exploit. Agree. One big culprit is how - weak - the job felt, and who likes to spam 6s cast time 1k needles anyways?
It's not fun to form parties for a dungeon otherwise closed to BLU to get a skill (for solo content) One thing that they could improve was to dramatically increase the learning % if your party was full BLU. At least it would be a bit less boring yet more rewarding.
It's not fun to have 49 skills when almost 50% of them are either useless, one time use or a copy of another skill. Totally agree on this one. I get that we need at least one damaging spell of every elemental school for the Masked Carnivale, but there's a lot of redundant spells indeed.
It's not fun to go through stages of the solo instance when it all comes down to roughly the same content : figuring which spell is mandatory to get through. Yep, here it comes to what a BLU can do in its endgame. After you know what to do, you can complete the Masked Carnivale weekly in about 40min with the basic spellkit. Then what else to do? You don't even need to leave Ul'dah for that matter.
It's not fun to lock skills behind absurd RNG (100 Ramuh runs made it clear for me) This currently is the most un-fun part of the job by far. If at least the EX versions had dramatically increased chances, but not even that.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I think just because you have it unlocked, doesn't mean you'll have it equipped on your hotbar. Or some weak justification like that.
But that leads us, once again, to the double standard regarding BLU. Because there's no guarantee that anyone else has their on-level skills, given that 30-60 + 70 job skills are locked behind quests people might not do. And just because they have them, doesn't mean they'll use them, either.

A BLU player will not be better or worse than they are on other classes, is what it boils down to.

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I'd go with a system with mandatory skills (basically build a rotation of 6 elemental spells that build combos, one or two DoTs, Debuffs and you're set), and then as we can change our Role skill actions between each pull, we could just equip spells for a precise trash pull or a boss.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...0517f88406.jpg

I stole this from reddit, but I feel this is relevant

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I must find that thread.

Lvl 50 blu, here.

It’s garbage. I’d go as far as to say its false advertising.

Leveling with a BLU was a stale affair, that is made far more effective with slapping a mob and having a lvl 70 character one shot it. This true from the leveling, to the trials and dungeons, and will largely be the majority of a blue mage’s life in leveling and getting spells: a charlatan begging for the scraps of jobs already geared and capable of destroying ARR’s content.

The 5 star spells are so low in drop rate that farming parties where the lvl 70 destroying the mobs while the blus try to survive was inevitable. Again, the blue mage is just being carried, because the low drop rate makes an actual fight where the blue mage participates a proposition not even considered. That ifrit normal, one of the few trials there blu can solo, is “bugged” and will not get the eruption spell, is quite telling.

I’m about halfway done with the masked carnivale, though I have a feeling it is going to be have a limited shelf life, barring some future need to gain allied seals again—and that’s really the whole game isn’t it? Put some emote or hairstyle behind a shop with a currency that can only be gotten by spamming a certain content, and players will jump through the hoop. The Masked Carnvale was never meant to be “long lasting” content, nor Blue mage truly capable of solo play or meaningful contribution on its own. It is a ruse made to create farm parties for older content, forever reliant on being carried through the unsynced party.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Is it really too much to ask for new content? >_> I admit BLU content is quite boring now, and obtaining skills from EX content can be a pain, but it's a first step to new possibilities. Let's give it a chance and find new ways to improve it instead of erasing it from this new equation.

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I went into BLU very optimistic, during the November presentation I was freaking worried as hell about "limited jobs" but I pushed that aside and took BLU for what it was, my friend and I got on as soon as it released and I had fun I truly did. The fun died when I hit 30ish and got 1000 needles and that's all I did, people who were crying for non cookie cutter builds got Cactus Mage where it didn't change until you got double voices which didn't change a thing it was the same thing Ram > Dragon >Ram > Dragon there's no complexity to it.

Then when you get to Carnivale it's just awful I blew through them all was like oh crap I need Tail Screw for the turtle encounter, ran Sastasha HM about 11 times said screw that (ha!) and went to the Lochs where a level 70 friend carried me to get it so I could get to the next bad set piece of Carnivale. Then we get to the cream of the crop here the ultimate in tediousness I bring to you the EX primals!

This was the worst part for me running 4 year old content isn't new or a step for new possibilities honestly I don't get how this is new or even inventive it just sucks the ever living life out of your Soul Crystal, its like if Atma manifested itself into its own entity and became a job. I spent more time on this new content for nothing and I'll never go back to BLU because it left such a bad taste in my mouth if this is what limited jobs are going to be then I'll spend my time elsewhere I don't like not playing my class while my friends or randos solo EX and HM primals while I just say n or yes got the spell in party there's no joy to be had in this it died when I hit 50.

It's not new content it's old content recycled with a new mini game where it lies to you telling you that you can do all these wonderful things when you're about as useful as an actual sardine out of water I'm done playing AFK spell sim to get nothing after 76 Ramuh runs.

https://i.imgur.com/MLlz5SK.gif

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Is it really too much to ask for new content? >_> I admit BLU content is quite boring now, and obtaining skills from EX content can be a pain, but it's a first step to new possibilities. Let's give it a chance and find new ways to improve it instead of erasing it from this new equation.

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It's fine to ask for new content, but we should not be allowing JOBS to be locked or sacrificed to side content, it is not a precedent we should be allowing the dev team to set. We should not have to keep saying "Oh they'll make it better next patch even though it's locked out of a majority of the game" on a job of all things, jobs are how we interact with and play with content in this game they should not be reduced to an unfinished "wait and see" form of side content.

Making new content is perfectly fine and people have said BLU is fine with it's learning and even the masked carnival the problem is that that's ALL BLU has and being a regular job, which yoshi p stated was impossible, was sacrificed for this content. It's just not right, I and I'm sure many others would have waited until 5.0 or even 6.0 for BLU to be a fully realized job WITH this sort of content with it. It's obvious they only did this because it's the only way Yoshida could see it being done and because they just didn't want to put too many resources or time into this job.

But now, how do we make sure this negative yet relevant feedback goes throuh though? Because there is like 50 posts of "BLU is bad cuz it's not what i want" on the forum, I'm afraid the constructive criticism some members have provided will get lost in the flood.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

jobs are how we interact with and play with content in this game they should not be reduced to an unfinished "wait and see" form of side content.

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I've been looking for the right words to express how I feel about this, and you've provided them for me. Thanks lol.

Jobs in MMO work somewhat like characters in fighting games. I mean, I don't know how many people here played Dissidia Final Fantasy, but one of the most requested characters for Dissidia since the first game is Zack Fair from FFVII. Now imagine if they finally gave the players Zack... but he couldn't play online, and could only play offline in his own special content. And when players inevitably said "we wanted an actual character we could play with like the others!" they would hear from their peers "Why do you want another boring sword-wielding character in a boring four-role based game?". They gave them what they wanted but took away their ability to play with it.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Okay, I've reached 50 with BLU and completed all of the solo spellbook entries and some instance entries as well. Cleared Masked Carnivale too, so here's my input:

1) BLU "endgame" content is as limited as the class' description:
It took me roughly 1 hour to beat all of the Masked Carnivale - the only fight which required me to look for external strategies was the Miss Typhon one. The only replayability in this is going back to defeat the encounters every week for the rewards. Other than that, there's nothing else to do as a Blue Mage in the game. Even if you're set into completing the spellbook, eventually it will be completed, but you don't really need the 5 star spells to beat the Masked Carnivale anyway.

What then? They really need to think about more stuff to do as a BLU. Maybe enable PotD, but for solo blue mages? Why not let us sync to level 70 for Eureka? It seems like a good call for them too, we could even use the elemental weaknesses there as well.

2) BLU is - not - a solo oriented job as advertised:
The soloing capabilities, yes, are bigger than other jobs at lv50, but HALF of the spellbook requires a group. There's no way to solo the level 50 dungeons. Okay, I'd get that the 5 star, primal spells, would require a party but that's just 5 spells. What about the others? Plus on top of that, there's the awful RNG... It's very disheartening to spend 40min with a 4 BLU group running dungeons to defeat the last boss and leave empty handed, especially when it's just a spell that is just for completion sake. I mean, who uses that ability granted by Zu in Pharos Sirius?


In the end, I'm also on the team that, with the use of specific - required to queue - spells, BLU could fill the dps-support niche together with MCH and BRD as a regular job, but realistically I don't think they'll change their mind on how the job plays.

Saying that, I really, honestly, wish that they improve the BLU experience at 5.0 launch to:

a) Have more relevant content to do at its level cap.
b) More reliable ways to obtain the 4 and 5 star spells. A bit less of RNG.
c) Don't want it to be a duty finder job? Fine, let us properly solo its "endgame" content by the use of strategies and different spells.

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Theres been some looking into for alternate ways to find the other spells so while not 100 percent accurate I have heard you can get one of the Pharos Sirius spells from the Outer La noscea A rank ( if it lives enough ) and the WP one from the Upper La noscea B rank. But ppl would need to coordinate for this. Just thought id drop the info in case it helps. Will agree not being able to solo the lv 50 dungeons for the spells is kinda sucky. Plus need ppl to run for the AV one to finish the job quest which Im not sure im totally a fan of. Aside from this have enjoyed BLU

Not reading thru 100+ pages on this but what's up with this poll? Why is this "locked" behind the idea of ditching the Learning mechanic? That's probably the only thing holding this at a rough 50/50 instead of a landslide...and the only thing I can figure is that a BLU in df with 1/49 spells would suck.


So just lock df behind having all spells, or at least a full set of 24, or some quest that requires you to have x spells (either specific ones or a certain total) and do a fight to show some general competency with it, problem solved. Could even just lock it behind the perfect blue achievement, so wouldn't even need to make a new fight.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Not reading thru 100+ pages on this but what's up with this poll? Why is this "locked" behind the idea of ditching the Learning mechanic? That's probably the only thing holding this at a rough 50/50 instead of a landslide...and the only thing I can figure is that a BLU in df with 1/49 spells would suck.


So just lock df behind having all spells, or at least a full set of 24, or some quest that requires you to have x spells (either specific ones or a certain total) and do a fight to show some general competency with it, problem solved. Could even just lock it behind the perfect blue achievement, so wouldn't even need to make a new fight.

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Well~! If you read on page 58, row 3, column 2 section B I agree with you entirely! lol. I'm impressed so many have voted on it though, I think that's one of the more active polls (if not most) I've seen for this game (even if I disagree with the options, and wish I knew where it was posted to for population reasons).

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Not reading thru 100+ pages on this but what's up with this poll? Why is this "locked" behind the idea of ditching the Learning mechanic?

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It's an old poll that was admittedly flawed to begin with,

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But now, how do we make sure this negative yet relevant feedback goes throuh though? Because there is like 50 posts of "BLU is bad cuz it's not what i want" on the forum, I'm afraid the constructive criticism some members have provided will get lost in the flood.

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...this is where we're at now, thinking of a better way to go forward. A concerted community effort would be great. That's how Warrior got changed, Dark Knight got...attention(?) and other things happened.

At minimum, I think it'd be reasonable to present a community collaborated response for each Live Letter and upvote it or something, but we could also make a new poll, etc.
(I'd imagine off the top of my head, voting on A. Broken solo job that can cheaply conquer most content, B. Balanced for less restrictions in party play, C. it's fine as is)

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But now, how do we make sure this negative yet relevant feedback goes throuh though? Because there is like 50 posts of "BLU is bad cuz it's not what i want" on the forum, I'm afraid the constructive criticism some members have provided will get lost in the flood.

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We don't, because this kind of feedback never seems to get to the devs, our best bet is hoping someone makes a change.org or the japan forums make a big of a stink that it gets noticed. Even then I doubt Yoshida or the dev team plan on changing course with this content and giving us a real job, they'll probably just buff the potency's and increase the drop rates as that seems to be the major issue people are having.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

We don't, because this kind of feedback never seems to get to the devs, our best bet is hoping someone makes a change.org or the japan forums make a big of a stink that it gets noticed. Even then I doubt Yoshida or the dev team plan on changing course with this content and giving us a real job, they'll probably just buff the potency's and increase the drop rates as that seems to be the major issue people are having.

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That doesn’t begin to address the experience of playing as a blu mage, in the face of most of its life being subject to being waited on in undersized parties, all to impress upon side content by themselves.

I just had a vision. Primal spell totems that drop from lockboxes you get from the Carnival.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

We don't, because this kind of feedback never seems to get to the devs, our best bet is hoping someone makes a change.org or the japan forums make a big of a stink that it gets noticed. Even then I doubt Yoshida or the dev team plan on changing course with this content and giving us a real job, they'll probably just buff the potency's and increase the drop rates as that seems to be the major issue people are having.

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On the contrary, it's very likely that BLU is a limited job specifically because they want to see what players do with it before (potentially) allowing it into more content. We're beta testers, basically.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

On the contrary, it's very likely that BLU is a limited job specifically because they want to see what players do with it before (potentially) allowing it into more content. We're beta testers, basically.

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It is hard to ascertain what is going on at the devs’ offices, but I doubt this is the case seeing as how they are not going to raise the cap until 5.x, which is months to a year after shadowbringer launches. Which means it is at least going to have one more surge as shadowbringer launches from new players coming in the expansion and/or buying their way through the previous storylines, at which point the numbers will then pretend that Blue Mage is alright. Until the devs speak up about further changes and adjustment to BLU, the “limitations” in the Blue Mage playstyle seem intentional in an attempt to create another source of someone replaying old and irrelevant content. This is something that has been a practice in ffxiv, from triple triad cards, furniture, and relic quests.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

On the contrary, it's very likely that BLU is a limited job specifically because they want to see what players do with it before (potentially) allowing it into more content. We're beta testers, basically.

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Very very veeeery unlikely, as incomplete BLU is, this was sold to us as a complete option, they never stated anywhere during the presentation that this was a beta test and Yoshida has gone on record saying this is personally the only way he could see BLU being implemented, in the same way he previously stated he could only see SAM as a melee dps and not a tank.

They obviously have no intention of changing course here and already have plans for content going into 5.0, it's unlikely they'd scrap all of that when they've already announced it. It isn't like diadem where diadem was released as a complete product that they only re-worked after a LOT of backlash and they had no further plans to update.

BLU has content already announced and most likely in the pipeline, this is how they think BLU should be implemented. This is not a beta test.

I'm back briefly after reading a bit of the forums while waiting for a doctor appointment this morning.

I see that a lot of what myself and others against the concept of limited jobs had said did end up being correct but I really thought it would take a month or two before there was the backlash would grow again to what is going on right now. I'm a bit surprised it took less than a week.

I see some that were in favor of limited blu are now pushing for some changes to be made so that blu can be used in the content they want but don't care about the rest. I said it many times in the last two months but jobs SHOULD be for everyone to then take into the content that they want. Jobs just for certain areas of the game was and still is a bad idea.

Before I return to shunning 14, I want to say a few things.

If you're unhappy with limited jobs, then vote with your wallet. You don't have to unsub like I have. You can stop subbing with the three and six month options and just go with the entry sub. You can cancel your extra retainers. You can stop buying stuff from the mogstation. Expressing your opinion on the forums and elsewhere will only go so far.

To the people that defended limited blu and that now are asking for dialogue to try to see where the community can agree and give SE that feedback in hopes of saving solo content given the amount of backlash I wish you good luck. I asked over and over if your side would be willing to do that and never got a "yeah let's do it". Most of the time, I received pushback to the idea.

To Yoshi and the dev team, I would recommend addressing this issue sooner than later. The game needs positive word of mouth to continue growing. There's already enough negative perception by large parts of the MMO community as a whole that FFXIV has too slow of combat and "too anime". Now, to myself and plenty of others, we are getting explanations (excuses imo) of why some things like a full blue mage can not be done. I used to really push my friends on WoW and from other games to try FFXIV for the first time or give it another chance and a big reason was that I believed in Yoshi P. I now believe after the Dec live letter and Famitsu article that Yoshi is displaying arrogance like the WoW devs have been for the last decade. The same arrogance that apparently was making the original launch of 14 fail. This is why I'm now one of the people that is telling others to stay away from the game. You still have an opportunity to change this around.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

I now believe after the Dec live letter and Famitsu article that Yoshi is displaying arrogance like the WoW devs have been for the last decade.

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You know I read that Famitsu article and was disgusted by it. I simply wrote it off as a puff piece - not an interview but an advertisement. I realize now I was only considering Famitsu's handling of the interview. A paid-off gaming outlet gushing about the people who sign their paychecks is not surprising. That being said, I can see your point as well. It was a tiny echo chamber and at no point was the consideration that maybe this radical departure from what FFXIV had to offer might, conceivably, hit some speed bumps. It does, indeed, remind me of the WoW team's reaction after the infamous "Selfie Camera Patch" In Warlords of Draenor. WoD was very much a "raid or die" expansion: raids were some of the only new and polished content, and LFR was pushed to the wayside.

During that time WoW wanted you to raid, and to raid their way or be shamed with crap looking gear - they even took tier sets away from LFR difficulty. This was a departure of their policy from the very introduction of LFR back in Cataclysm. Specs that didn't fit into the mold like Gladiator were nerfed and nerfed and eventually announced to be "too much of a complication" and were slated to be cut. People became sick of the nonsense excuses. They wanted their content back: dungeons, transmog hunting, new PvP arenas, etc. Instead, what they got was a patch that introduced a way to take a selfie with your character and . . . little else. The backlash was enormous and almost overnight my guild roster and friend list became a ghost town. Now, I don't think the devs did this intentionally - who wants to sabotage their own paycheck? They just thought that they could do no wrong. If the content they were providing wasn't "good enough" or "deviated from their vision" then they'd toss some experimental thing out there to satiate the rabble and go back to their grand vision of how they want the game to be. They forgot the core gameplay loop, they forgot that while - yes WoW has a billion dungeons - people still loved to run them. While it has more specs than FF has classes people still liked to be able to try new refrains and methods and twists on those variants in all the game has to offer.

It is frightening to think that FF could or is going the same way. Big games like WoW or FF do not die overnight, but from a thousand cuts. The more they forget their foundation and base the more the cup of consumer good will cracks. Nevertheless, I thank you for the food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

At minimum, I think it'd be reasonable to present a community collaborated response for each Live Letter and upvote it or something, but we could also make a new poll, etc.
(I'd imagine off the top of my head, voting on A. Broken solo job that can cheaply conquer most content, B. Balanced for less restrictions in party play, C. it's fine as is)

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A poll with questions along those lines would be favorable over the earlier poll from around BLU's announcement. Not to criticize the proposed poll, but I find myself scratching my head at those who wish to see Blue Mage made so powerful that it can conquer threats like Shiva Extreme at level 50 all on its own. To achieve that, its strength would have to be increased tenfold, or effects like Tail Screw would have to work which would be a cheap win.

In either case, it's highly unlikely that SE would allow a job with that much power anywhere near max level without limiting what content the job can access even further. It's sole purpose (outside of collecting spells and Masked Carnival) would be to blaze through outdated content. To which I have to ask... why not blaze through old content as a level 80 Blue Mage?

Heck, if SE wanted to (and they probably wouldn't) they could make spells like Tail Screw work against all bosses from dungeons and trials as long as it's at least 10 levels lower than your own. That would allow for Blue Mage to feel broken in old content as long as they enter unsynced. And it wouldn't upset balance for current content or synced content (like Roulette) as those spells could be made ineffective against all bosses of comparable level.

I just... don't see what there is to gain by keeping Blue Mage limited. A lot of what people want can still be achieved while allowing Blue Mage to function as a full job.

SE has always had the mentality of "you play our games how we want you to," but it feels like it's gotten so much worse over the years. They really have started to remind me of Blizzard. "You don't know what you want, we know best." It's extremely worrying to see a company I've supported for over 20 years steadily worsen.

It's depressing that every time I mention posting on the forums to friends in game, the reaction is always "don't bother, they won't listen." Isn't that the exact opposite of what we should be expecting from game developers? I can't properly express my disappointment with the fact that a mobile game developer (CyGames with Dragalia Lost) has implemented and listened to more community feedback in 4 months than SE has in ARR's entire lifespan.

Anyways, just ranting a bit here. Please listen to your community, SE.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

A poll with questions along those lines would be favorable over the earlier poll from around BLU's announcement. Not to criticize the proposed poll, but I find myself scratching my head at those who wish to see Blue Mage made so powerful that it can conquer threats like Shiva Extreme at level 50 all on its own. To achieve that, its strength would have to be increased tenfold, or effects like Tail Screw would have to work which would be a cheap win.

In either case, it's highly unlikely that SE would allow a job with that much power anywhere near max level without limiting what content the job can access even further. It's sole purpose (outside of collecting spells and Masked Carnival) would be to blaze through outdated content. To which I have to ask... why not blaze through old content as a level 80 Blue Mage?

Heck, if SE wanted to (and they probably wouldn't) they could make spells like Tail Screw work against all bosses from dungeons and trials as long as it's at least 10 levels lower than your own. That would allow for Blue Mage to feel broken in old content as long as they enter unsynced. And it wouldn't upset balance for current content or synced content (like Roulette) as those spells could be made ineffective against all bosses of comparable level.

I just... don't see what there is to gain by keeping Blue Mage limited. A lot of what people want can still be achieved while allowing Blue Mage to function as a full job.

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I've seen some ideas thrown around and I'm starting to agree with them, in that maybe what SE was referring to when it came to the "solo" aspect was the Carnivale itself and not the idea of soloing any dungeons or trials. Maybe it's output is lackluster not due to oversight but because that's what they wanted in the first place, and it really down to its core isn't meant for traditional combat.

Then I started thinking about it some more...say they did buff BLU's potencies to a "soloable" degree: why would anyone play any other Job for 50 content if they could just solo through it? Any sort of farming wouldn't need a group anymore, if you could just hop on BLU and one-shot everything? It would throw everything into disarray, and wouldn't necessarily kill grouping for 50 farms, but you'd see a whole lot less of it. The more I think about it the more I think everything has so far been going according to whatever plan they have.

Or maybe I'm just overthinking it at this point.

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Originally Posted by Oreos

SE has always had the mentality of "you play our games how we want you to," but it feels like it's gotten so much worse over the years. They really have started to remind me of Blizzard. "You don't know what you want, we know best." It's extremely worrying to see a company I've supported for over 20 years steadily worsen.

It's depressing that every time I mention posting on the forums to friends in game, the reaction is always "don't bother, they won't listen." Isn't that the exact opposite of what we should be expecting from game developers? I can't properly express my disappointment with the fact that a mobile game developer (CyGames with Dragalia Lost) has implemented and listened to more community feedback in 4 months than SE has in ARR's entire lifespan.

Anyways, just ranting a bit here. Please listen to your community, SE.

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But I like the BLU idea, therefore they're listening to me.
You have plenty of jobs to choose still and they're untouched for their content, so why can't we have a different job style? Why does everything has to be the same?

On next expansion we will have all jobs to lvl80 with new skills and probably new combat mechanics, so they will feel like playing a new job. Do you really need BLU there as well? Isn't it better to have different content instead of always the same stuff?

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Originally Posted by GucciSan

Then I started thinking about it some more...say they did buff BLU's potencies to a "soloable" degree: why would anyone play any other Job for 50 content if they could just solo through it? Any sort of farming wouldn't need a group anymore, if you could just hop on BLU and one-shot everything? It would throw everything into disarray, and wouldn't necessarily kill grouping for 50 farms, but you'd see a whole lot less of it. The more I think about it the more I think everything has so far been going according to whatever plan they have.

Or maybe I'm just overthinking it at this point.

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Yes, they were refering soloing the Carnival. It would be pointless to solo every dungeon, it would just kill the game and/or new players experience on low levels.


BLU is a long-term job for now. Let's wait and see what he can offer at higher levels.

No matter how much you overpower blue mage or make his skills broken, blue mage will still be nerfed/restricted with certain skills. The problem is skills that can actually "1shot" fate mobs or bosses will have to be nerfed accordingly. So it starts with the players who would go and early pull+kill those said FATEs. While theyre not important right now and probably nobody cares for ARR Fates, I dont see any future for this job to be fully overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

A poll with questions along those lines would be favorable over the earlier poll from around BLU's announcement. Not to criticize the proposed poll, but I find myself scratching my head at those who wish to see Blue Mage made so powerful that it can conquer threats like Shiva Extreme at level 50 all on its own. To achieve that, its strength would have to be increased tenfold, or effects like Tail Screw would have to work which would be a cheap win.

In either case, it's highly unlikely that SE would allow a job with that much power anywhere near max level without limiting what content the job can access even further. It's sole purpose (outside of collecting spells and Masked Carnival) would be to blaze through outdated content. To which I have to ask... why not blaze through old content as a level 80 Blue Mage?

Heck, if SE wanted to (and they probably wouldn't) they could make spells like Tail Screw work against all bosses from dungeons and trials as long as it's at least 10 levels lower than your own. That would allow for Blue Mage to feel broken in old content as long as they enter unsynced. And it wouldn't upset balance for current content or synced content (like Roulette) as those spells could be made ineffective against all bosses of comparable level.

I just... don't see what there is to gain by keeping Blue Mage limited. A lot of what people want can still be achieved while allowing Blue Mage to function as a full job.

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http://www.strawpoll.me/17279778/r here's a new poll.

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Originally Posted by GucciSan

Then I started thinking about it some more...say they did buff BLU's potencies to a "soloable" degree: why would anyone play any other Job for 50 content if they could just solo through it? Any sort of farming wouldn't need a group anymore, if you could just hop on BLU and one-shot everything? It would throw everything into disarray, and wouldn't necessarily kill grouping for 50 farms, but you'd see a whole lot less of it.

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But we can already solo everything up to extreme trials as level 70. Level 50 farming already doesn't need a group. In ShB level 60 content probably won't need a group. Everything BLU can do, except for carnival, another job can do better. It's not even good in the overworld! That's why we saw people on their actually powerful jobs one shotting things.

BLU is bad at soloing and needs a group, so why is it stuck at level 50 and barred from the DF? This is half-assed design.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

http://www.strawpoll.me/17279778/r here's a new poll.

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For me, there's still a problem with this poll, because you don't really say how you would implement the first solution.
It's easy to suggest an ideal answer, but if one can't do it, it's still an unrealistic poll.

So, my question is : How would you do a BLU that match at least all the criteria below :

• Have to hunt for spells
• Can hunt spells in mostly random order
• Is customizable to be versatile in content
• Have comparatively more powerful spells than other jobs to compensate for the additional work of hunting them
• Is balanced with every other job so that matchmaking and the meta are not overrun by BLUs

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

BLU is a long-term job for now. Let's wait and see what he can offer at higher levels.

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I would rather not. "Wait and see" didn't work so hot the first time around.

SE needs to listen and respond to feedback. Otherwise, the next update to Blue Mage will simply be more of the same.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

For me, there's still a problem with this poll, because you don't really say how you would implement the first solution.
It's easy to suggest an ideal answer, but if one can't do it, it's still an unrealistic poll.

So, my question is : How would you do a BLU that match all critera below :

• Have to hunt for spells
• Can hunt spells in mostly random order
• Is customizable to be versatile in content
• Have comparatively more powerful spells than other jobs to compensate for the additional work of hunting them
• Is balanced with every other job so that matchmaking and the meta are not overrun by BLUs

...and I think we could still need more criteria, but those are already a good start.

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One idea I've seen tossed around is to have you learn your overall abilities through Job quests, so that way everyone knows exactly what abilities you'd enter an instance with, but to have additional "glamour" skills you can learn out in the world if you want to. We'd have the best of both worlds; a Job to do content with, and for those that love the collecting part there's still that minigame for them.

EDIT: And to keep the Carnivale, we can have those glamour skills do different effects at their full power, and say that in this certain instance, you "unlock the full power of your Soulstone" or something.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

For me, there's still a problem with this poll, because you don't really say how you would implement the first solution.
It's easy to suggest an ideal answer, but if one can't do it, it's still an unrealistic poll.

So, my question is : How would you do a BLU that match at least all the criteria below :

• Have to hunt for spells
• Can hunt spells in mostly random order
• Is customizable to be versatile in content
• Have comparatively more powerful spells than other jobs to compensate for the additional work of hunting them
• Is balanced with every other job so that matchmaking and the meta are not overrun by BLUs

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The poll is simply meant to fairly give even options. Whatever you feel constitutes a criteria for how BLU plays is purely subjective, as BLU has been wildly different in many of it's iterations outside of keeping learning enemy skills.

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Originally Posted by GucciSan

One idea I've seen tossed around is to have you learn your overall abilities through Job quests, so that way everyone knows exactly what abilities you'd enter an instance with, but to have additional "glamour" skills you can learn out in the world if you want to.

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Something like "Do that quest to 100% learn this AoE, but hunt these optional mobs to learn 6 different aspects of this AoE for elemental purpose in the Carnival" ? That could be a thing, but it might be difficult to do the same with every type of skill.

Or, like I suggested in some other topics, you could have talents that would be "limited". So, in matchmaking, you'd be forced to use the base version of a skill and those wouldn't be random, but in "talent-parties", you'd have your talents available to enchance some of those. And BLU would have to hunt those "talents" or "talented-skill".

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

The poll is simply meant to fairly give even options.

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Yes, but considering SE basically said that this was the only way they could implement BLU, you still need to have a plan to give shape to those options.
It's like if someone made a poll asking if people want "10 dungeons, 5 trials, and 15 floors for raids in each major patch" or if they'd rather "stick to the current formula".