Healers need an overhaul

I know this is hopelessly unfashionable, but I enjoy running my SGE a lot, and my SCH and WHM only slightly less so.
YMMV. (AST I haven't touched since Heavensward.)

But I'm just a "filthy casual" here to enjoy the game with my wife and friends.
I used to be in a couple of static raid groups (in another MMORPG) but that's too much commitment and drama for me these days. But maybe I'll try being in a static again when I retire in a few years ...

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I know this is hopelessly unfashionable, but I enjoy running my SGE a lot, and my SCH and WHM only slightly less so.
YMMV. (AST I haven't touched since Heavensward.)

But I'm just a "filthy casual" here to enjoy the game with my wife and friends.
I used to be in a couple of static raid groups (in another MMORPG) but that's too much commitment and drama for me these days. But maybe I'll try being in a static again when I retire in a few years ...

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You are allowed to like the current state of healers. The issue comes when people give legitimate criticism of the current design and the response we get from other players is "Well, I like it so there is no need to even adress it."
It adds more insult to injury when the players that like the current design admit to not really caring for optimization or DPS or have no desire to learn their kits.

The biggest criticism the forums have for healers is "1 button nuke spam" during downtime. It's not the existence of downtime itself, it's not the classes being accessible or simple. It's the fact that any minimum amount of optimization with a healer rewards you with incredibly dull and repetitive gameplay.

This game has a leveling curve. Why on earth are we stuck with the same buttons from level 16 to level 90 to fill up 70-90% of our gameplay as healers.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

You are allowed to like the current state of healers. The issue comes when people give legitimate criticism of the current design and the response we get from other players is "Well, I like it so there is no need to even adress it."
It adds more insult to injury when the players that like the current design admit to not really caring for optimization or DPS or have no desire to learn their kits.

The biggest criticism the forums have for healers is "1 button nuke spam" during downtime. It's not the existence of downtime itself, it's not the classes being accessible or simple. It's the fact that any minimum amount of optimization with a healer rewards you with incredibly dull and repetitive gameplay.

This game has a leveling curve. Why on earth are we stuck with the same buttons from level 16 to level 90 to fill up 70-90% of our gameplay as healers.

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Someone who uses the drive through isn't going to care what state the dining room is in for a fast food restaurant, but an ugly and/or dirty dining area will push away people that to go in and eat. Even though many big name fast food restaurants had high financial success, many of them still invested in cleaning up and stylizing their dining areas to attract more people.

If the responsibility of healing is the food and the dining area is the gameplay, casual players passing through the drive through won't care what you do with the interior as long as you don't tear down the building, but it will continue to drive away those of us who want to stay and sit for the food.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

If the responsibility of healing is the food and the dining area is the gameplay, casual players passing through the drive through won't care what you do with the interior as long as you don't tear down the building, but it will continue to drive away those of us who want to stay and sit for the food.

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Meanwhile, I'm over by the window, trying to wipe the spilled soda off of my seat while scanning around for roaches and roadkill in and around my burger.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

You are allowed to like the current state of healers. The issue comes when people give legitimate criticism of the current design and the response we get from other players is "Well, I like it so there is no need to even adress it."
It adds more insult to injury when the players that like the current design admit to not really caring for optimization or DPS or have no desire to learn their kits.

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Personal attacks on people with different likes than you won't convince them or SquareEnix of anything;
at least a few of us casual healers do care about maxing our DPS when we're not healing. That's part of the fun.

For some people "this isn't my preference" seems indistinguishable from "this is wrong and must be eliminated!"
It's an all-too-common affliction these days, and it's the opposite of productive.

Ultimately, it comes down to whether there's more people like me paying subscriptions for FFXIV than there are like you.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Personal attacks on people with different likes than you won't convince them or SquareEnix of anything;
at least a few of us casual healers do care about maxing our DPS when we're not healing. That's part of the fun.

For some people "this isn't my preference" seems indistinguishable from "this is wrong and must be eliminated!"
It's an all-too-common affliction these days, and it's the opposite of productive.

Ultimately, it comes down to whether there's more people like me paying subscriptions for FFXIV than there are like you.

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It's really not a personal attack.

Every player's enjoyment matters equally, but there's a difference in the understanding of the role between someone who's healed at all levels of content, casual, midcore, and hardcore, or who's been healing since SB, HW, or even ARR, and someone who's only healed casually, who's only started FFXIV recently, or who doesn't main healing. Who do you think has more creditable feedback?

Healing suffers a very unique issue where it's issues are not apparently to new, learning, casual, or flex healers because of how players engage with the responsibility of healing. Those types of players find lost HP scarier. They feel the adrenaline much more easily because they don't realize that no one will take damage for another 20 seconds. They're prone to overhealing out of fear of leaving someone unhealed and out of a lack of understanding on how the healing role is played. You know how frequently I encounter SCH and SGE players in things like trial roulette who cast Succor/E. Prognosis constantly? The thing about that is it makes healing more engaging even though it's terribly optimized.

It's only when you start learning how to improve that the reward for your skill is utter monotony. This makes it that much harder to give reasonable feedback at a low skill or casual perspective of healing. And it's not as though the majority of more experienced healers on the forums are advocating for things that harm casual players. On the contrary, the majority desire to raise the skill floor to make healing actually easier for new or casual healers while expanding on the gameplay for experienced healers to have fun in all levels of content.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Personal attacks on people with different likes than you won't convince them or SquareEnix of anything;
at least a few of us casual healers do care about maxing our DPS when we're not healing. That's part of the fun.

For some people "this isn't my preference" seems indistinguishable from "this is wrong and must be eliminated!"
It's an all-too-common affliction these days, and it's the opposite of productive.

Ultimately, it comes down to whether there's more people like me paying subscriptions for FFXIV than there are like you.

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Yes yes, we know 1111111111111111111111 is *so fun*. None of our criticisms are legitimate. It's simply a disagreement between evil current-design-dislikers and the cool current-design-enjoyers. We're making it all up just to be mean, and all would be well if we simply gave up and left the role to the 1111111111111111 enjoyed.

What stunning, fantastic game design, I cave to its superiority.

My biggest issue is that you don't see people who want to increase the skill ceiling get in the way of people who want to decrease the skill floor.

The opposite is not true.

When anyone tries to increase the skill ceiling everyone immediately goes to "think of the children(skill floor)." when it has no impact on the skill floor other than distancing itself further from the ceiling.

You are upset because of the preconceived notion that by increasing the gap between the skill ceiling & the skill floor that the class will change, that how you play at the floor will change or become less accessible, it won't but you wouldn't know that because your skill level has only been at below average for the past 8 years. The only thing that will change is now more people will have fun and they'll know you have no idea what you're doing.

People like the ones I'm describing get in the way of progress simply because any change at all could only be bad for them and they don't care if other people aren't having fun.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It's really not a personal attack.

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Well we disagree on that. And some of the other replies indisputably are personal attacks.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Every player's enjoyment matters equally, but there's a difference in the understanding of the role between someone who's healed at all levels of content, casual, midcore, and hardcore, or who's been healing since SB, HW, or even ARR, and someone who's only healed casually, who's only started FFXIV recently, or who doesn't main healing. Who do you think has more creditable feedback?

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Mine, for how I've been playing the game since 2015.
I don't know what the "hardcore" players need: I don't have their perspective, and I'll do them the courtesy of not pretending I do. It would be nice if they returned that favor.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Healing suffers a very unique issue where it's issues are not apparently to new, learning, casual, or flex healers because of how players engage with the responsibility of healing. Those types of players find lost HP scarier. ... They're prone to overhealing out of fear of leaving someone unhealed ...

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If I was ever "scared" of people having low HP, it was years ago.
These days, I'm just amused when, for example, a tank dies because he ran out of my range or LoS'd me in a W2W trash pull. It's all part of the fun, and how people learn.

Besides, in the immortal words of Vince Lombardi, "the best defense is a good offense." Like dead DPS, dead mobs do no damage. So if the tank dies in a W2W pull but all the mobs die too, as happened in a recent pub run with me on SCH and two decent RPRs on DPS, that seems a fair trade. :)

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It's only when you start learning how to improve that the reward for your skill is utter monotony.

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Maybe you need to pug more. There's nothing monotonous about running with tanks and/or DPS who don't know their kit, don't know the mechanics, or both. I don't even find it frustrating, because I don't have high expectations for pugging, and certainly don't expect a fast clear.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

People like the ones I'm describing get in the way of progress simply because any change at all could only be bad for them and they don't care if other people aren't having fun.

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Huh. If you're one of the billions of people on Earth that I don't know, I don't even care whether you're getting enough to eat, much less whether you're "having fun." Otherwise I'd be sending my FFXIV subscription money to charity, and -- like you -- I'm not.

Also, after all, wouldn't it be arrogant to pretend to understand what makes something fun for other people? Tastes vary, after all. I don't like tea. My spouse doesn't like espresso. We don't understand the other's reasons, but we're both okay with it.

That said, I personally have never said anything about opposing change, I simply stated that I'm enjoying healing as it is now. I'm not opposed to change per se.

However, I do prefer the old animation for Holy. YMMV.