The way the game is "meant to be played" is a community issue, and not something set by SE. To some players just lazing around the dungeon looking at everything is how they feel the game should be played. Other players want to run through the dungeon as fast as possible. Some just want to do small pulls. Some want to spend 30 mins watching cutscenes and others don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff
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09-27-2014, 01:31 PMWellGramarye
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09-27-2014, 04:41 PMBrine_GildchaffNot when we're talking about specific cutscene flags that were placed into the game by SE. It is the clear and indisputable intent of the developers that players reaching those points in the dungeon view a cutscene.Quote:
Originally Posted by WellGramarye
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09-27-2014, 05:05 PMKaethraSE also put the option to not only skip the Cutscene. But to AUTOMATICALLY do it if you've seen it already. So that is Clear and Indisputable proof of the intent of the developers to allow players to skip or view them. At their leisure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff
As I've said before, the arguments in this thread ALWAYS go both ways. Which is why we should compromise. -
09-27-2014, 05:23 PMBrine_GildchaffI can't deny the truth in that, but it's still a clear-cut difference from someone wanting to walk around and sightsee in a dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
Y'know, I only seem to see this word bandied about by the veterans in this thread. It's starting to look more and more like code for "way we can still get our extra 100 myth faster without being chastised by the community".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
Edit: I should clarify this... it wasn't necessarily pointed at Kaethra, so much as the players both active in this thread and who fall into the same group as those pointed out by the OP, who seem to feel it's their absolute Twelve-bestowed right to not only take their 100-myth bonus - their payment from Square for assisting new players - but also ruin the new players' experience by forcing them to skip scenes or run off and leave them behind to get either lost or locked out of every single boss fight, all so they can finish the dungeon they arre now being given 230 tomestones for in the same time they'd normally take to get 130 tomestones from roulette. And who then have the unmitigated gall to come on here and call the -newbies- "entitled".
With people like -that- on one side, talk of "compromise" is absurd. The compromise was already made, by Square; the players I speak of wish to flout that compromise and demand a new one be made closer to their goalposts. -
09-28-2014, 05:31 AMKaethraBelieve me, I understand and even agree with you to a certain extent here. I do NOT like when newbies are told to skip the cutscenes. That ticks me off. And I will do what I can to punish players who try to tell a newbie they can't watch them. I want the newbies to watch them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff
I also have no issue with waiting for cutscenes. I really don't. I don't mind speedruns. I won't lie, I actually like them. Why not? Its less time and we get into the boss fights which is -my- favorite part of the dungeons. And I will wait for newbies to catch up for those. Because lets me honest, the more the merrier right? And in those cases where both tanks want to watch the cutscenes, I'll let them watch. I won't rush them. Heck I might even watch them myself. They're pretty cool to experience as you're running them once in a while.
But my sword cuts both ways. Veterans that just wish to clear trash while people are watching. I'll let them do that too. The newbies shouldn't be crying foul there either. But that's usually not a problem. I don't see many newbies in the dungeons I run get upset about it. Where I normally step in is when someone says at the beginning "just skip the CS and watch them in the Inn." I tell them to leave them alone, that they can still clear to the boss while they're watching (after the first one). Usually that ends the argument. And that's what I'm advocating here.
One thing I would support is the fix to Praetorium specifically where you have to kill the mobs next to the teleporters before being able to use them. That's a pet peeve of mine is a newbie getting killed there because they don't know how to get through. Heck even a few of my friends who are vets have reported dying there as a tank so everyone else can get through. That's needs to change. But other then that. We can handle it ourselves as a community.
But what really irks me is when some people come in here. These people who are vets and don't really run the dungeons anymore, will come in and say that speedruns are terrible, and say that vets who want their speedruns shouldn't join the DF and should use the PF instead. The rule of PF is as follows:
If you want to speedrun, don't use DF.
If you want to watch cutscenes, don't use DF.
What that means is if you want something. In order to get it, you preform your group. No matter what. When you use DF, you pretty much do what the majority of the group wants to do. And I mean its the most fair way. You have a group of strangers who's end goal is to complete the dungeon. How they complete it is up to a majority. And really thats how it should be. I know when I first ran CM and PR back a year ago, I was in a preform. I had a healer I knew well, and a tank I've been grouping with since 2007 in a variety of games. And I did that because I (we) wanted to watch the cutscenes. And so we did.
But when you run with other people, you do so respectfully. No one should be booting anyone unless they are a real detriment to the group. The great thing about CM and PR is that they are easily One Groupable. Heck I'm confident I could duo it with a tank with me healing (Minus the Ultima detonation at the end). With that said, I suggest compromise where the side who wishes to speedrun, and the side who doesn't, just do what they wish. Simply because it doesn't put the collective goal of the group (completion of the dungeon) at risk. -
09-28-2014, 06:06 AMWellGramaryeThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
You can solo/duo dps that last 10% no problem with the current gear levels in the game btw. Its about 2000 HP or so. -
09-30-2014, 01:05 AMNyarukoWFixed it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
I don't know how you people get stuck on false equivalences so easily. First-timers should not have to use the PF just so they can watch the cutscene. 95% of the time in Prae, there is no 1st-timers. They are NOT first-timers after 1 run.
Speed runners force people to skip cutscenes. They will try to do this by verbal abuse, vote kick abuse, and/or locking 1st-timers out of the bosses. This is a fact. -
09-30-2014, 01:19 AMYoninxiThen why subject yourself to that? Just make a story focused PF with the "No Skipping Option". Thats why they put it there. Expecting 7 other people, in duty finder roulette prae/CM, to wait for someone just because theyre new is naive and borderline idiotic.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyarukoW
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09-30-2014, 02:39 AMNyarukoWThe newbies that need protection from abuse are on the DF. They do NOT even know about the PF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoninxi
And the no skipping option is available on the PF so people there do NOT also need to suffer the abuse from the speed runners that join PF without reading descriptions/comments, as you well know, happens all the time. -
09-30-2014, 03:34 AMKaethraI used my FC to run those dungeons on my first time. I was playing the game for maybe 2 weeks. Very new.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyarukoW
And I don't abuse people that skip cutscenes. I let them. And I speedrun.
Looks like both your facts have been proven wrong.