Terminology. Why does it bug me and others?

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

This is highly debatable. The first time I personally saw it was in 97, but that was hardly the first year of MMOs. It's been attributed as far back as MUDs, so I'd venture to guess both have been used nearly an equivalent amount of time.

Plus, saying "char" outloud just sounds silly to me. Probably as silly as "toon" sounds to you. We're not carebears.

So, my point still stands. Toon is just as valid, and probably as old, as "char".

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Char confuses me and makes me think I'm playing Guild Wars again. :P

I've used the term "toon" ever since EQ, hell, even used it on MUDs to refer to a character.

Hate to point it out, but DPS is the correct term for FFXIV. Check your Duty Finder. Check Yoshi P on the subject.

As for the other stuff, sorry to say, no one has rules on what terminology should be used. I guess you can make a FC with friends who use the same terms as you do. Otherwise, you have no hope of fixing what people say and you're doomed to be annoyed for a very long time.

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People who never played WoW or hate WoW are more stuck on that game than anyone else. Terms like DPS, Toon, and Pally have been used in several games BEFORE WoW, including Everquest and Ultima Online. But all these people want to see is World of Warcraft.

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I don't think most people mean that wow coined those words, more that most people learned it from there.

As for me DPS, toon, lf Heal and a few others really don't make sense.

I use DD, and I have seen it in other games besides FFXI. So why do people say it came from, or only used in, FFXI?

I agree with the OP. I grew up with DD, PLD, Regen and Refresh and Raise, and Character or (Understood) Me. When people say "Toon" I actually have a small mental breakdown and a thousand suns die from the rage I release into the universe.

None of those terms bother me. However, I am often amused by the hipsters that blow up about video game terminology, and refuse to accept that these terms existed anywhere outside of and prior to WoW.

When people say DD/DPS/Clan/Pally etc, I’m smart (or old) enough to comprehend what they’re referring to, whether I use those terms myself or not. And I don’t care which term they use as long as the message is received. It's a video game, not rocket surgery.

Personally, I can’t stand the misuse of quotation marks, nor when people blatantly abuse the English language by typing:
Should of
Would of
Could of
…but I’m not going to create a thread about it. Maybe. Yet. ♥

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Explain how it makes any sense and isn't an incessantly childish way of referring to one's character (and other's characters) and maybe I'll divulge the obvious reasons as to why it's so infuriating and confusing. I'd also like to know where this "term" originated. And no, I'll never get used to it. It's been years since I first heard some one say it. I hate it even more now than i did then. All it's good for is trolling and/or destroying other's respect.

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It's not confusing. Whether you do or don't like it is your own issue, really.

I personally just use the MMO terms I am used to using. I never played WoW, but I use words such as "DPS" and "guild" because that's what was always used. I was a bit lost when I started playing this game and the terms were different. I know them now, but I still use the terms I am used to using for things, mostly out of habit. I've been using them for years, so if I'm not paying attention I just slip back into that terminology.

And why does it matter really? Pretty much eveyone knows what you are talking about. I don't care what term is used because 90% of the time I know what people are referring to. It's not THAT complicated. In fact, in terms of ease of understanding, it's more likely that people will know the "general" terminology people in this thread are annoyed about as opposed to the apparent "acceptable" terminology used in this game (which mostly seems to have originated in FFXI).

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Just because a thousand idiots use it, doesn't mean it makes sense. Just because I've heard it a thousand times doesn't make it proper terminology. Just because I know what they're talking about doesn't make it a legitimate way to refer to something.

And did I ever say it was confusing to myself? No. It's confusing to new players because it doesn't make any goddamn sense. Terminology is supposed to be a way to easily and logically express concepts/objects/rules/etc to ANYONE. There is nothing logical about "toon". I don't maneuver my wheeler down the pave to the mart, I drive my car down the road to the store.

It's called "Character Creation".

Do you call characters in non-MMOs "toons"? No, you don't, you call them characters. It's gaming terminology, not exclusive to MMOs unlike "toon". My toons go on insane murdering rampages in GTA!

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You have every right to dislike the word. Also, the second part of my reply was mostly a general reply to this thread. I don't use the word "toon" to describe my characters. Never have. I find it a bit weird, but it doesn't bug me and I don't think people are idiots for using it. I guess "toon" could be confusing for new players, but, from what I've seen in-game, the words "character" and "toon" don't come up all that much. It's not like someone would be confused over that term during a boss fight or something more crucial.

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

It's not confusing. Whether you do or don't like it is your own issue, really.

I personally just use the MMO terms I am used to using. I never played WoW, but I use words such as "DPS" and "guild" because that's what was always used. I was a bit lost when I started playing this game and the terms were different. I know them now, but I still use the terms I am used to using for things, mostly out of habit. I've been using them for years, so if I'm not paying attention I just slip back into that terminology.

And why does it matter really? Pretty much eveyone knows what you are talking about. I don't care what term is used because 90% of the time I know what people are referring to. It's not THAT complicated. In fact, in terms of ease of understanding, it's more likely that people will know the "general" terminology people in this thread are annoyed about as opposed to the apparent "acceptable" terminology used in this game (which mostly seems to have originated in FFXI).

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Just because a thousand idiots use it, doesn't mean it makes sense. Just because I've heard it a thousand times doesn't make it proper terminology. Just because I know what they're talking about doesn't make it a legitimate way to refer to something.

And did I ever say it was confusing to myself? No. It's confusing to new players because it doesn't make any goddamn sense. Terminology is supposed to be a way to easily and logically express concepts/objects/rules/etc to ANYONE. There is nothing logical about "toon". I don't maneuver my wheeler down the pave to the mart, I drive my car down the road to the store.

It's called "Character Creation".

Do you call characters in non-MMOs "toons"? No, you don't, you call them characters. It's gaming terminology, not exclusive to MMOs unlike "toon". My toons go on insane murdering rampages in GTA!

Personally as long as i know what people mean, i don't care what people use.
As long as they don't go nuts at me when i haven't a clue what something they used means, i say huh?.... I'm covered it a wall of spit brought on by the wind of anger because i didn't understand a 3 letter acronym that he and his buddies decided to use from a game i never played.

These shorter terms are just a mixed mash of old terms, squeezed into newer games for the most part anyway

We could always just use the full words instead. From the amount of complaining i see on these boards about how slow the fight system is we all have time to use them. Personally i have been fishing so i have no clue how fast or slow the battle system is.

Nobody likes a pedant, language evolves and grows, fighting it and constantly attempting to correct people just makes a person come off as a snob.

I was thinking about this recently.

None of it bothers me in any way, but I was questioning to a friend why we call the hit point reducers "dps" or "dpsers".

They aren't damage per seconders. They are hit point reducers. Their DPS is a stat of their character, not what their character is. So when I see Damage Dealer in this game, I think, hey...that actually makes more sense.

...but then I throw out a call in my FC and say "any DPS wanna come do WP?"

like I said, none of it bothers me, but DPS makes no sense when I think about it now.

I'm on OP's side.. when i see people saying "threat" instead of "hate" or even "enmity" it bothers the crap outta me... i can put 2 and 2 together but still it's....just weird.

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Originally Posted by BoomerOU

Nobody likes a pedant, language evolves and grows, fighting it and constantly attempting to correct people just makes a person come off as a snob.

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And blatantly using ridiculous terms like "toon" just makes a person come off as an idiot.

Complaining about Pally....come on.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

And blatantly using ridiculous terms like "toon" just makes a person come off as an idiot.

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Being upset because of it makes a person come off as even more-so.

My only pet peeve when it comes to people's verbiage?

It's gil not gold. Gold is used in the craftsmanship of a goldsmith's trade, gil is the currency. There aren't gold sellers running rampant, there are gil sellers running rampant. People purchase items with gil, not gold. You deposit gil into your company's bank/chest for saving up for big purchases, not gold.

It's not really that hard, I've been playing RPG's table top and video games for way to long that I care to admit to, and understand gold/copper/plat/mythril tends to be the norm. However, I've never had any issue understanding that most of the worlds the Final Fantasy's tend to play in have their currency as gil.

^_^

The only terminology I 'hate' is "WoW terminology", really people, there were other games before WoW.

As for things that slightly annoy me:

DD as a reference to what you do. I know what the classes are in any given game, I know you hit stuff. I want to know how hard you hit for and how fast you can get the job done. DPS is an easily quantifiable answer and gives me the information I need up front, good or bad.

On the whole Pally thing: I say this audibly, and will sometimes write it depending on the environment. PLD as the abbreviation...XIV is the only game I have played where it's in use.

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Originally Posted by Larmy

I've always read DD as Damage Dealer

Therefore, DPS is something you do. DD is what you are.

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This is how I looked at it too, until I started playing WoW. It was odd seeing people asking for more DPS for their group.

As I stated before, though, "DPS" doesn't bug me (I use the term myself), I just used it as an example.

It's things like "Pally" or "Toon" or "Aggro/Threat" that just make me wanna facepalm for some reason.

dude saying pally is like a cute way to say paladin.. here let me make some samples

Paladin PLD= pally
Dark Knight DRK = Darky
Thaumaturge THM = Thaummy
i can go ooon and ooon...
also try saying on your VoIP " Hey guys im going to this fight as a PLD"..sounds off...

with that said i allways use full class jobs name on VoIP or type PLD,SMN.. on the chat but to get annoyed by ppl saying it another way dosent bug me at all

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

dude saying pally is like a cute way to say paladin.. here let me make some samples

Paladin PLD= pally
Dark Knight DRK = Darky
Thaumaturge THM = Thaummy
i can go ooon and ooon...
also try saying on your VoIP " Hey guys im going to this fight as a PLD"..sounds off...

with that said i allways use full class jobs name on VoIP or type PLD,SMN.. on the chat but to get annoyed by ppl saying it another way dosent bug me at all

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Well of course I'm not going to say, " I can tank on my PLAD". I wouldn't say "Pally" either, though. I'd probably go hipster and say "Paladin".

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

Paladin PLD= pally
Dark Knight DRK = Darky
Thaumaturge THM = Thaummy
i can go ooon and ooon...

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... MONK(E)Y! :eek:

And by the way, I believe the special case of "PUG" can contribute to an extra 12 pages in this thread!

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Originally Posted by Gramul

People say pally instead of PLD?
...that's stupid. That sounds, looks, and functions on a heightened tier of stupidity.

Its not even shorter.

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Its similar to how the term for a carbonated beverage varies by region in the US "pop", "soda" or *cringe* "coke"

A former WoW player is used to using "pally" (the "coke" of paldin IMO) because PLD is not a term used there and similarly, an FF player would get odd looks calling a paladin PLD in any other game.

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Originally Posted by Xieveral

Its similar to how the term for a carbonated beverage varies by region in the US "pop", "soda" or *cringe* "coke"

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The coke one drives me nuts. If anyone ever asks me for a coke, and means anything but a Coke, they are getting a Coke from me, not a Pepsi, Sprite, 7-Up or whatever else they wanted. That is like calling every sneaker a Nike, or every superhero Batman.

DD = Damage Dealer (this is FF now WoW), when you went to WoW you learned the terminology, now you've come to FF, its Damage Dealer.
Toon = cartoon character (which fits WoW's art style, not FF's)
DPS = Damage Per Second. If you /shout LF 1 dps, you are and always will be shouting for a DD who can do 1 Damage Per Second.

Credit for stupid terms is given to WoW because before WoW, the MMO market was far smaller, so even though all of these games existed before WoW, they were generally small, so most of these people claiming the terms were coined before WoW, likely never even played those games, and are simply tagging along others reasons to try and push their way.

FF11 was the 2nd largest MMO ever until WoW, which means all of these other games where these terms were "coined" were far smaller, and FF11 wins.

/thread

What bothers me is "threat." It's "enmity."

since when did "DPS" become synonymous with WoW?

The term "DPS" is as old a "Mob." "DPS" was floating around since the late 90s in MMOs

If the term "DPS" bugs you then don't write it. If you see other people writing it and it still bothers you then I don't know what to say....this is a pretty petty thing to be bothered about.

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Originally Posted by Annah

this is a pretty petty thing to be bothered about.

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I always make sure to act like that guy from the Onyxia wipe video if someone says he gets annoyed by "WoW terms".

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Originally Posted by Raxion

For some reason the use of terms like "DPS" instead of DD, and "Pally" instead of PLD, bug me and I can't really say why. It's not that I dislike WoW. I've played WoW for 5+ years. I thoroughly enjoyed the game until recently.

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You have 'balls' bringing this up, because you're on the wrong side of the popular fence.
Unfortunately most of this stems from laziness or the desire to be different - as just like in real life. What's more concerning is that people intentionally shorten words, then they re-lengthen them and misspell them on purpose.


My pet peeves are:

Toon (Character)
DPS (damage dealer)
Party (Group)
Guildy (Guild member)
Wifey (some dumb bitch who gets put on auto follow while afk for two hours of a raid then shows up at the last two minutes to roll on an item and has the audacity to say 'wow thanks everyone, that was hard work!')
And anything with Anime influenced ASCII type characters like "^^" or "0.o"

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

DD = Damage Dealer (this is FF now WoW), when you went to WoW you learned the terminology, now you've come to FF, its Damage Dealer.
Toon = cartoon character (which fits WoW's art style, not FF's)
DPS = Damage Per Second. If you /shout LF 1 dps, you are and always will be shouting for a DD who can do 1 Damage Per Second.

Credit for stupid terms is given to WoW because before WoW, the MMO market was far smaller, so even though all of these games existed before WoW, they were generally small, so most of these people claiming the terms were coined before WoW, likely never even played those games, and are simply tagging along others reasons to try and push their way.

FF11 was the 2nd largest MMO ever until WoW, which means all of these other games where these terms were "coined" were far smaller, and FF11 wins.

/thread

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Hi Mr. Know-It-All...I'm just here to point out that DD infact means DIRECT DAMAGE (As opposed to DoT Damage over Time), even in FFXI this is what it meant, it was the XBox Generation of XI-ers that never grasped this and believed it was Damage Dealer.

/thread (Am I doing it right?!)

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Terminology is actually pretty important. Being able to clearly communicate with your party is essential for smooth play.
Talking like a baby when referring to classes and abilities sort of throws a wrench in the cogs.

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Terminology is important. So feel free to teach it to the millions of new players that haven't played any MMO before and know none of this terminology.

Arguing over which terminology is correct is stupid. If you study comparative linguistics you'll learn that language is created by and evolves from the community that uses it. If the word is understood, it's correct.

PS. Fishes is now a real word in the dictionary..why? Because it became part of the community to the point where Fish(plural) was no longer necessary (but still understood).

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Originally Posted by Ranebow

And anything with Anime influenced ASCII type characters like "^^" or "0.o"

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This. For me, it makes someone look a complete idiot (even if they're not!) in less than ten seconds flat.

It bugs me a little when some people (FFXI players?) say "mages" to implicitly mean "healers." A black mage is a DD, but not a "mage," apparently?

Lol I've never played WoW, but I've always used DPS and Pally since Diablo times. I only first heard about DD when coming to this game, I was so confused.

The only terminology that is completely ridiculous is "Looking for tanker."

Thankfully, it seems to always die a horrible death every time someone starts trying to use it.

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Originally Posted by Ranebow

And anything with Anime influenced ASCII type characters like "^^" or "0.o"

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Used in excess it screams attention whore or G.I.R.L./attention whore

I'm guilty of using ^^ and :3 amongst friends but that's amongst friends you just don't do that with a group of strangers.

:^) and : o) really get under my skin for some reason...

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Toon = cartoon character (which fits WoW's art style, not FF's)
DPS = Damage Per Second. If you /shout LF 1 dps, you are and always will be shouting for a DD who can do 1 Damage Per Second.

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Since the term "toon" was coined in the days of MUDs, which came LONG before graphical MMOs, it's safe to say it has nothing to do with art style what-so-ever, and is just as applicable in FF as it is in WoW or any other MMO.

The term DPS is meant for "High DPS classes", not simply "Damage per second". So someone asking for a "DPS" class is asking for a specific class capable of producing high DPS.

Both are applicable in FF14 :)

/thread

Personally, i think you all should feel very happy in that your lives are so smooth that you can not find anything more substantial to be bothered by.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

DD = Damage Dealer (this is FF now WoW), when you went to WoW you learned the terminology, now you've come to FF, its Damage Dealer.
Toon = cartoon character (which fits WoW's art style, not FF's)
DPS = Damage Per Second. If you /shout LF 1 dps, you are and always will be shouting for a DD who can do 1 Damage Per Second.

Credit for stupid terms is given to WoW because before WoW, the MMO market was far smaller, so even though all of these games existed before WoW, they were generally small, so most of these people claiming the terms were coined before WoW, likely never even played those games, and are simply tagging along others reasons to try and push their way.

FF11 was the 2nd largest MMO ever until WoW, which means all of these other games where these terms were "coined" were far smaller, and FF11 wins.

/thread

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FFXIV disagrees with you. Open up the duty finder menu, you will see it says DPS. The offical term is DPS for FFXIV.

Man... some people in this thread are hardcore uptight about what comes across their chat box. Who knew talking in MMOs was such super cereal business?

I don't say this... ever, really... but go outside people. lol

When I first started, You definitely didn't use 'DD' to mean 'DPS'. DD stood for Direct Damage, as in, a Wizard casting a spell that does a burst of damage in one go, not over time. If a spell caused Damage Over Time, it was a DOT. People weren't even counting their damage per second when I first started playing EverQuest back when there was only 1 expansion. At least, not to such a widespread degree like today. I hear people mention 'DD' in forums to this day, particularly in discussions about the actual terminology like this thread is, but I've only ever heard it used in-game back when I was starting out in EverQuest. (way before FFXI or WoW)

I've played wow, ffxi, rift, and a verity of other MMOs. Dungeons and Dragons paper version.
DPS is the term used most widespread to refer to a character that does damage in a party setting. DD always felt awkward to me, maybe because saying sentences aloud Deeps/DeePeeEs and Dee-Dee, Deeps will Always win for speech and I try to only type what I'd say aloud.
Pally pisses me off. ITS Pali / PLD; Pally is some deformed term that is nearly as long as the actual word... If short-terms are used why in the twelve would anyone use Pally for Paladin. I understand its use, and wont grip if someone does it but drives me mad.
Always, in rpgs, its character; but when I got into wow....Toon was the reference word to use. I want to know where it started from, because while wow is more "cartoonish" that couldnt be the soul start of the Toon. I used it because it was the "term" to use... I rather char/character but even still, I'll screw up while I'm typing fast.
Tank and Spank.... cuz really that always amuses the hell outta me. The tank holds it and the dps go to town on it. just makes me chuckle.
CC: people need to learn it; CROWD CONTROL. Sleep, stun, kite: call can apply, hells this game even has distinctions for IGNORE IT.
Its all a matter of useage, and where its learned. Dont hammer people because you dont like a term they use; unless you dont know its reference then ASK it, then you'll know.