Summoner Question: Where should I spend my Myth tomes first?

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Originally Posted by T0rin

From my best estimate...
Astral Ring (pentamelded for +12 crit, +3 accuracy)
Allagan Ring

Any other combination of items may result in sufficient accuracy to hit 100% on Garuda in Turn 5, but it would leave you with less DPS. There is no middle ground, there is no gray area. There is the best, then everything else.

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Most of us can't get over a million gil to buy such ring.

Your entire argument is based on invented equivalencies, so it is essentially meaningless. A "loss of 5.1 INT worth of stats" is awfully exact considering nobody even knows what the damage formula is.

I do not think sacrificing your primary stat (INT) is acceptable under any circumstances. Your equivalencies do not persuade me, as the entire idea that there is such a thing is an invention, as are the weighted values. INT is a sure thing, and I will not sacrifice it for secondary stats whose relative value within the community seems to change weekly.

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Originally Posted by paradigmfellow

Most of us can't get over a million gil to buy such ring.

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Nor should you, considering a better ring will likely drop from Crystal Tower in one month, for free. And you can get still better rings from myth tomes and coil, again, for free.

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Originally Posted by Zholi

Your entire argument is based on invented equivalencies, so it is essentially meaningless. A "loss of 5.1 INT worth of stats" is awfully exact considering nobody even knows what the damage formula is.

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The formulas are known, I am in the process of digging up some links to serve as "proof".

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Originally Posted by Zholi

I do not think sacrificing your primary stat (INT) is acceptable under any circumstances. Your equivalencies do not persuade me, as the entire idea that there is such a thing is an invention, as are the weighted values. INT is a sure thing, and I will not sacrifice it for secondary stats whose relative value within the community seems to change weekly.

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Yes, you would rather sacrifice 34 crit to gain 10 accuracy than you would sacrifice 4 int to gain 12 accuracy. As much 'sway' as there is in the community's approximation of the value of crit, it is certainly worth more than 0.12 int. There are variations, but they culminate around 0.2, which is almost twice as much as you are valuing it. Crit is a sure thing. Int is a sure thing. Det is a sure thing. All we have are close approximations of their respective values, but everything shows crit being worth almost twice as much as you are willing to give it credit for. Sacrifice all the 34 crit pieces for 10 accuracy that you want, but in the end you're only hurting yourself.

In the end, DPS is DPS. It doesn't matter that it comes from Int or Crit or Det or Spell Speed, DPS is DPS. As there is nothing truly concrete, you have absolutely nothing to go on in assuming 4 int is better than 34 crit. Just because Int is a primary stat, doesn't make it far and away the end all, be all of the damage formula. You are simply choosing to ignore all the research and testing and theorycrafting the community has done, and substitute it with an asinine assumption you have absolutely no proof of being true. Unlike the valuations of crit/det/spell speed, which have been tested out and do have a close approximation of proof.

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Originally Posted by Zholi

Nor should you, considering a better ring will likely drop from Crystal Tower in one month, for free. And you can get still better rings from myth tomes and coil, again, for free.

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Buying a myth ring costs myth. The cost here, if nothing else, is the opportunity of not being able to buy something else. Coil is an exercise in RNG. You could go 1 week or 100 weeks before getting a ring. Crystal tower will inevitably be the same. And who is to even say the ring(s) in Crystal Tower will even have accuracy? Nothing is to say. All we have to go on is what we see now.

I've been farming coil. I don't have an Allagan ring. I've spent my myth on other, better items than the myth ring. Myth is capped. Coil runs are capped. You know what isn't capped? Your ability to earn gil and buy equipment (like an overmelded astral ring) that has been shown to be superior to what you can acquire by other means. People can get over a million gil to buy an item, if they wanted to. People choose not to. That is not an excuse to rely on unreliable measures to acquire the gear that will give you the most potential performance you can achieve.

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Originally Posted by paradigmfellow

Most of us can't get over a million gil to buy such ring.

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Why not? Can't kill WP? AK? Philo mats aren't bought on your server? Can't level up crafting skills? Make items and sell them?

I see little excuse for someone who is in the end game, to not be able to make money. It could be that someone doesn't _want_ to make money, but saying they _can't_ make money is definitely a falsehood.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Why not? Can't kill WP? AK? Philo mats aren't bought on your server? Can't level up crafting skills? Make items and sell them?

I see little excuse for someone who is in the end game, to not be able to make money. It could be that someone doesn't _want_ to make money, but saying they _can't_ make money is definitely a falsehood.

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Not everyone can be a multitasker. There are other more pressing matters, such as real life. Some of us have a full time job and go to grad school. Leveling crafts requires a huge investment of time that I just don't have time for. The philos I get are used for my other classes. The money I gain from the runs are not much. It would probably take a good 3 months to get to that point, if I logged in everyday and leveled crafts. By that time CT would be out and I could just run it to get my lvl 80 ring.

I'd say gearing multiple classes is high up there in what's considered multitasking.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

I'd say gearing multiple classes is high up there in what's considered multitasking.

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I should have clarified on that. It is so much easier (time wise) to gear multiple classes than leveling crafts, getting the materials, and hoping for success. You will loose your items if it is not a success, I already tried it with a friend (fully maxed out in several crafts). I wanted to get a vanya head piece and I was able to grind for the peacocks. Let me tell you that I was not happy when I saw that he failed. That was time that I pretty much wasted.

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Originally Posted by paradigmfellow

I should have clarified on that. It is so much easier (time wise) to gear multiple classes than leveling crafts, getting the materials, and hoping for success. You will loose your items if it is not a success, I already tried it with a friend (fully maxed out in several crafts). I wanted to get a vanya head piece and I was able to grind for the peacocks. Let me tell you that I was not happy when I saw that he failed. That was time that I pretty much wasted.

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Or instead of gearing those classes, you just buy Philo mats and sell them for gil. Crafting is only one way to make money, and apparently one you don't personally want to invest in. That's fine, but there are other ways.

This is not an "I can't make money" situation, this is a "I choose to spend my time gearing out other classes instead of making money" situation.

Also, don't give your hard earned materials to people who cannot guarantee success. Find a reputable crafter, pay them a fee, give them the mats, let them do it. People have methods to make HQ 2 star (like the Vanya hat) items with 0% chance of failure. Or alternatively, sell the Peacock ore and just buy the already made item.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

The formulas are known, I am in the process of digging up some links to serve as "proof".

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Originally Posted by Chocobro

Found some really interesting stuff during testing thats pretty much invalidated all current damage formulas.

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Nope.

10char

Out of curiosity since this was the only related thread I found, as a SMN if I WANTED to fully meld HQ Vanya Robe and Hat, what would be the best meld options? I have mostly DL for the rest of my gear. Any advice is appreciated! (I went this route so I could use my seals for my WHM Alt relic)

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Originally Posted by Yukonjack

Out of curiosity since this was the only related thread I found, as a SMN if I WANTED to fully meld HQ Vanya Robe and Hat, what would be the best meld options? I have mostly DL for the rest of my gear. Any advice is appreciated! (I went this route so I could use my seals for my WHM Alt relic)

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Vanya Hat
Savage Aim 2
Heaven's Eye 3
Heaven's Eye 3
Heaven's Eye 2
Savage Aim 1

Vanya Robe
Savage Aim 3
Savage Aim 3
Savage Aim 3
Savage Aim 3
Savage Aim 2

Thank you!

So here is my optimal myth progression order. This is taking into account that I don't plan on incorporating crafted gear till maybe afterward & that I have dl gear to work off of. Also that I don't have any Allagan yet.

Wiyu +1* > SMN Hands* > Hero's Neck* > Hero's Bracelets* > SMN Body** > SMN Head** > Hero's Ring**
*= Equip asap
**= Wait to Equip

Sites...
The bc drop order to determine gear sequence.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...c&toomany=true

This was nice to have a chart of the stat differences side by side. Make sure to click the THM/ACN/BLM/SMN Spoiler: Show in the 1st post.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/118...ear-Comparison

Zholi posted this a few pages back. It saved time totaling up stats & such.
http://chocobro.com/sim.php

This was good to know what the possible best in slot is.
http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/1508/BiS-SMN

More BiS info.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...der=true&gid=7

(Sorry for the multiple posts. The character limit caused me to break up the post.)

Why the above gear order...
Wiyu +1 - Discussed pages ago.
SMN Hands - For the extra acc..
Hero's Neck - A. neck drops T5 so it's more likely to have to wait to get that piece & less likely the a. neck will be a temporary piece.
Hero's Bracelets - A. bracelet drops T2 so it's more likely to get the a. bracelet as a temporary piece before the a. neck as a temporary piece.

Now is when you start getting gear with your myths however you want to wait to equip these pieces till you can make up for the loss in acc.. Hopefully you'll have some a. pieces by this point & if not just hold onto the myth pieces till you do.

SMN Body - A. body drops T2 so it's less likely to get this as a temporary piece rather than the a. head.
SMN Head - A. head drops T1 so it's more likely to get a temporary a. head then getting a temporary allagan body.
Hero's Ring - This piece you lose acc if you switch the dl ring or dem. ring for a hero's ring.

At this point if you haven't been able to get any allagan pieces then you might want to consider temporarily getting the smn legs. This scenario is until you can replace them with the allagan legs. Smn legs have 34 accuracy & thus allows you to wear some of the pieces that you already have. Or maybe temporarily using the hero's belt for a small acc. boost.

I don't want to incorporate any crafted gear till after the myth & allagan pieces have been gathered. I don't think it's worth the gil to have something for a week or 2 then get your BiS & swap the gil piece out for that. Maybe it's just me. If there's some stats that I notice I'm lacking after everything is gathered I'll spend the gil & get a crafted piece to swap in. I mean with the exception of the temporary smn legs the gear in my order is all BiS so it's all needed sooner or later.

If you'll notice I tried paying attention to acc.. Full dl gives you 435 acc. which is ok enough to enter bc. The acc. cap for yourself is maybe 437 & the accuracy cap for your pet is around 450. If all I cared about was getting acc. points then I would have just wore my demagogue rope & warlock's patterns at first since the waist & feet give a lot of accuracy. If I were to do this I would however be seriously be handy capping my damage so this is not the optimal choice. When I first hit 50 smn I didn't realize how much acc. effected things. Since this was the case I got my Wiyu +1 & then my smn body. I knew smn body was BiS & saw many people picking it second but I wish I would have waited getting it till later. The darklight body gives +43 acc. which is enormous & that piece should not be taken off till you can compensate for the acc.. I learned my mistake & that is why I wanted to make these posts so others wouldn't make the same mistake.

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Originally Posted by Flips

Or maybe temporarily using the hero's belt for a small acc. boost.

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Why are you not considering Myth Belt to be best in slot? And as earlier mentioned in this thread, one piece of overmelded jewelry is best in slot.

Edit-> I now see your BiS list. Which is viewed as being less overall dps than going for higher accuracy.

There is no BiS for SMN currently. Nobody's done the math.

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Originally Posted by ticdup

Why are you not considering Myth Belt to be best in slot? And as earlier mentioned in this thread, one piece of overmelded jewelry is best in slot.

Edit-> I now see your BiS list. Which is viewed as being less overall dps than going for higher accuracy.

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I'll probably wear the hero's belt under instances where accuracy really helps get toward pet cap like T5 & use allagan belt for most of the time. That's why I have it in my notes following my list because I'm not too worried about it.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

There is no BiS for SMN currently. Nobody's done the math.

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Yeah it's a lot of he / she said which is why I said possible BiS & posted multiple BiS lists. We can't get figure out a BiS till we get some lucky person with multiple gear sets parse them. Even at that point the parses will still probably be broken when it comes to smn so who's to say what will happen. Best thing I can think of is Zholi's post for totaling up stats & using it to speculate.
http://chocobro.com/sim.php
Then again it has bugs & it's only for speculation purposes.

Allagan Boots of Casting
Before: INT+18, VIT+18, Critical Hit Rate+21, Accuracy+15
After: INT+18, VIT+18, Spell Speed+21, Determination+11

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a


So what's BiS now? :V

You won't know until you see the stats on the primal drops.

Reroll a blm summoners are pointless after 2.1

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Originally Posted by Seobit

You won't know until you see the stats on the primal drops.

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Aren't primals only dropping weapons? CT armor on the other hand might be interesting...

Garuda drops rings (fending, striking, healing, casting, etc).
Titan drops earrings.
Ifrit drops bracers.
All ilvl 90, stats still unknown. Assuming same as Hero's and Allagan but with different secondary stat distribution. Some of them might have acc and crit!

Ultima drops ilvl 80 necks.

Allagan boots seem...idk it seems like SMN thigh boots and the Allagan just seem to be a choice between acc and det now.

This saddens me, I JUST got my allagan boots and was so happy about it since I wouldn't have to get the thighboots...but now...

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Originally Posted by Seobit

Garuda drops rings (fending, striking, healing, casting, etc).
Titan drops earrings.
Ifrit drops bracers.
All ilvl 90, stats still unknown. Assuming same as Hero's and Allagan but with different secondary stat distribution. Some of them might have acc and crit!

Ultima drops ilvl 80 necks.

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Oh, did not know about accessories! Interesting o: