HM Titan will be nerfed soon

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Originally Posted by Juubi

I've seen many mmos nerf their content if the majority of players dislike the difficulty level (eg Diablo III Inferno Mode) so HM Titan will assuredly be hit with the nerf hammer sooner or later

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Diablo 3 isn't a MMO genius.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

I'd rather them nerf lag soon.

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lag is hard not ddr online, err i mean xiv:aar

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Originally Posted by Juubi

I've seen many mmos nerf their content if the majority of players dislike the difficulty level (eg Diablo III Inferno Mode) so HM Titan will assuredly be hit with the nerf hammer sooner or later

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This has already been confirmed. All Current End-Game gets weakened when 'New' End-Game gets released.

This means that with the release of 2.1 (and Nightmare Mode Ifrit and Garuda) we will have 3 'Vicious' End-Game Primals (NM Ifrit, NM Garuda, HM Titan).

Patch 2.2 releases the mighty LEVIATHAN, the King of Summons from Final Fantasy IV, the seadrake worshiped by the Sahagin. In Patch 2.2 we will also likely see the release of NM Titan, and the addition of ECHO to the HM Primals (it has been confirmed that the HM Primals will have ECHO added to them at a later point, which means that yes, in about February or March, we will likely see everyone with Relics, as ECHO will allow anyone to continuously wipe for huge stat buffs. When ECHO is added to HM Primals, it will also likely get added to AK.)

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

It's not that a fight is hard, it's just people can't dodge crap, making an easy fight hard

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I don't know if this is a troll comment or genuine opinion, but I'm getting rather tired of perceptions like this.
Now I'm sure that a small percentage of players are genuinely bad, but what I see most often is lag screwing players over.

Titan is a relatively long (5m+) fight in which a lag spike is more likely to occur. When these lag spikes occur, especially in the final phase, you are likely to die. Other than receive 0, sometimes the server will hiccup in its tracking of your position. You have any idea how many times I would be 90 degrees from landslide and get knocked off the ring adjacent to the line it was targeting? You have any idea how frustrating that is?

There's only one way I have been able to win Titan. After countless fights, memorizing each phase to a point of instinctual movement. Automatic anticipation of what he does before he does it, moving seconds before his attack even registers to give the server plenty of time to register my location. Sometimes for fun I'll run back into WoTL and laugh as it doesn't hit me.

Rant over, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Sigul

I don't know but, boss battles that follow a pattern, I don't see them being hard honestly.

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People who don't get that are just terrible gamers.

It's like a news article that said that this gen of gamers can't even beat the first level of Mario bros.

I see a huge difference between veteran players and kids these days. Games now hold your hand and don't require much thinking. Old games required you to memorize patterns in order to beat them. It's only logical that old school gamers have a better chance at seeing through Titan's pattern than new age gamers.

I have 9/9 relics fought Titan a lot of times, you could compare it to an old NES game like Ninja Gaiden or Megaman. Memorizing a simple pattern he does is not hard at all.

I can garantee you people who say its hard have never tried to memorize his pattern. As in if you premove from ripples because you know the exact moment they come out you will never die. People like to blame dying on lag but there really isn't lag on this fight, its the lack of understanding the animation is delayed and what the game goes by is cast bar. The other issue I see people die to is rock bombs, they don't know the pattern and how to avoid them.

Just like any Megaman boss you memorize the bosses pattern and you get an easy win.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I have 9/9 relics fought Titan a lot of times, you could compare it to an old NES game like Ninja Gaiden or Megaman. Memorizing a simple pattern he does is not hard at all.

I can garantee you people who say its hard have never tried to memorize his pattern. As in if you premove from ripples because you know the exact moment they come out you will never die. People like to blame dying on lag but there really isn't lag on this fight, its the lack of understanding the animation is delayed and what the game goes by is cast bar. The other issue I see people die to is rock bombs, they don't know the pattern and how to avoid them.

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lol you really don't get it do you? if the tells are being loaded to the client late so is the cast bar being loaded late and so are the graphics which tell you he's about to do something you memorized so you can move early. now think about it for a minute or fifty till the obvious sinks in.

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Originally Posted by dRakk

Not even hard though.

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this, 99% of wipes probably come from dps/healers not avoiding plumes and landslide so they aren't alive to endurance after the heart phase. Lack of experience is the only thing that makes this fight hard.

The modern MMORPG design is such that an encounter ought to be beatable with sheer reflex in response to the available cues given. That is if you see a message like "JUMP TWICE NOW" and you were quick enough to jump twice, you'd clear that mechanism even if you had no idea it's coming. In FF14, it's more like you've to be already jumping when you see the above message because the lag means you can't finish your second jump on time. Sure you can get around this by memorizing, but as WoW found out with its add-ons, having an encounter whose only difficulty depends on memorization is futile. It's not genuinely difficult, but it sure gets you a lot of angry customers.

They will nerf titan by releasing Ultimate Mode and making it drop a wep better than Relic.

It not the Difficult that kills most of the players in Titan HM.

It is the bloody animation delay the game has now with processing things through animation.

You can be out of a AoE attack you'll still be hit unless you're at least 2 seconds out of the hit box. Not even the old school games had animation delay issues with their games. This game it is basically "oh god oh god! YES I'm out of AoE hit box! *still git hit by AoE attack* Son of.... *Game display Troll face image for 1 second* "

You all can say the old school games are hard or way harder but those games didn't suffer from animation delays like FF14 does. If there were no animation delays in FF14 then we would be seeing a lot more successful groups but with animation delays a lot of people are being killed because they don't reacted naturally within 0.5 seconds of a cast time of a plume or land slide attack during phase 5.

SE needs to fix the bloody animation delay and then we will have less of a issue for Titan HM with people complaining its hard because really it is not hard but the the issue is simply the animation delay not processing the characters position fast enough when they're out of the AoE hit box.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

It not the Difficult that kills most of the players in Titan HM.

It is the bloody animation delay the game has now with processing things through animation.

You can be out of a AoE attack you'll still be hit unless you're at least 2 seconds out of the hit box. Not even the old school games had animation delay issues with their games. This game it is basically "oh god oh god! YES I'm out of AoE hit box! *still git hit by AoE attack* Son of.... *Game display Troll face image for 1 second* "

You all can say the old school games are hard or way harder but those games didn't suffer from animation delays like FF14 does. If there were no animation delays in FF14 then we would be seeing a lot more successful groups but with animation delays a lot of people are being killed because they don't reacted naturally within 0.5 seconds of a cast time of a plume or land slide attack during phase 5.

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MEMORY LIMITATIONS

You may thank Obama.

Unless you are lagging horribly, all this fight requires is memorization. You need to memorize exactly which abilities come in what order, and then you will NEVER get hit by plumes. You can run even before you see them. Landslide, on the other hand, is more of a wild card. It is 'easier' to dodge in that you technically have more time to get out of it, but you can't just start moving like you can with plumes because you don't know who it will be targeting.

Once a player gets out of the mindset that he or she can 'wait' until plumes spawn to move, this fight because easy as cake. Just move ahead of time. I rarely (if ever!) get hit because I'm so far out of it by the time it spawns that only a huge lag spike could kill me.

Now, is it right that we have to anticipate moves and move ahead of time to reliably get out of them? No, but I suspect that the reason the abilities go in the SAME order for the five phases of Titan is because SE assumed people WOULD have lag issues. The same ability rotation is a way for these players to 'prepare' for the situation and act accordingly.

I really don't know 'how' they will nerf this fight. Perhaps they'll make everything do less damage? Maybe they'll extend the time you have to get out of everything? OR MAYBE THEY WILL FIX THE POSITIONING ISSUES? One can only hope.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Unless you are lagging horribly, all this fight requires is memorization.

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WoW recalled this kind of failure in design which they no longer use. Unfortunately SE is apparently the company who never got the memo. MMORPG do not revolve around memorization anymore, because memorization gets defeated by tools. It can be sophisticated like add-ons in WoW, or it can be a macro like "OMG WOTL <se.1>!!!!" It doesn't add any depth, but it sure makes your player very mad.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

WoW recalled this kind of failure in design which they no longer use. Unfortunately SE is apparently the company who never got the memo. MMORPG do not revolve around memorization anymore, because memorization gets defeated by tools. It can be sophisticated like add-ons in WoW, or it can be a macro like "OMG WOTL <se.1>!!!!" It doesn't add any depth, but it sure makes your player very mad.

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I think the fact that this fight requires memorization actually makes it too easy. There is a reason people farm this, beating it consistently every time, and even selling runs to carries... While other people can't beat it after two hours of wiping. Ifrit (Extreme) in 1.0 was hard because there was a randomized element to it, even if some mechanics always triggered at certain times. Add the lag to the mix and the fight was nearly impossible to beat without at least someone dying. Like I said, I feel the 'ordered' abilities was a lazy way to make the fight beatable for people who do have latency problems.

Add DBM to the mix, and this fight would be ridiculously easy. A huge announcement would pop up on your screen saying, "PLUMES COMING: MOVE" while an audio recording would warn you to, "Run away, little girl... run away..." It would be way too easy. Having someone on a voicechat program TELLING you when to move basically amounts to the same thing. If you are warned, "Okay, run as soon as stomps are over," you don't have to work at all. And you know what? PEOPLE STILL DIE. I don't understand it. I spoonfeed some people and they still don't move ahead of time. Like I said... unless you are getting hit by landslides consistently (which means your lag really is THAT bad), there is no excuse to get hit by plumes.

Running ahead of time is not a fix. It is a work-around. I feel like the 'extreme' versions will be more randomized and reactive than the 'hard' versions... but that DOESN'T fix the latency or positioning issues, which will crawl back to the surface the seconds players can't 'predict' what is going to come next. I'm wondering if the extreme versions are being delayed as SE attempts to find a fix to the positioning issues.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

I think the fact that this fight requires memorization actually makes it too easy.

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The fight is easy because the only significant source of difficulty is lag, which can be defeated by memorization. It has nothing to do with the fact that the abilities are always cast in a certain order. An example of a mechanism that can defeat memorization would be say on Garuda, suppose you add 50% to Chirada and Suparna's HP, increase cleave damage by 200%, and reduce the area you've to fight them by 25%. So now it's imperative to ensure all 3 are tanked in a spot without any overlapping cleave. You can make a macro like "SPREAD OUT <se.1>" but that's not going to tell a player how to do it. It's still up to the player to actually be able to recognize where he needs to go.

It's sad, but likely true.. I don't think there is anything wrong with the fight now. There isn't anything truly or overly hard about it, it's fairly easy to move out of everything or to at least minimize your incoming damage.. I would hope that they would just leave it alone, but they probably wont :/

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Originally Posted by Astarica

WoW recalled this kind of failure in design which they no longer use. Unfortunately SE is apparently the company who never got the memo. MMORPG do not revolve around memorization anymore, because memorization gets defeated by tools. It can be sophisticated like add-ons in WoW, or it can be a macro like "OMG WOTL <se.1>!!!!" It doesn't add any depth, but it sure makes your player very mad.

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Woah, WoW stopped with this?
I remember doing Firelands and The Bastion of Twilight was like taking a freaking test... no wonder so many people quit on that expansion.

Maybe PS3 controllers don't work so well for Titan ?

I dunno how they can make this easier .

I basically levelled 2 tanks from 15 - 50 in dungeons only no fates .

I have seen utter fail every single group almost where people just cant get out of the red / AOE .

So having seen this fail I expect nothing less than fail in Titan . I don't know if its lag or people just cant move due to slow reflexes etc .

Always 1 or 2 people die in Titan before heart dies in DF groups . The rare 1 in 50 group that kill heart , get to Phase 5 and it turns to shit because people rarely get to that phase to learn it .

So yeah I expect Titan kill in about 1 in 500 attempts .

Please don't put "Titan will be nerfed soon" in your title if your saying just contains assumptions. So basically nothing but chitchat.

Honestly Titan HM isn't as hard as people make it seem just people don't know to dodge on the fly. I'm not sure why but people seem to have issues with moving out of the danger zones immediately that are clearly marked.

I hope its not nerfed though, cause if you can't beat Titan HM how do you think you can even beat the mini boss ADS in Turn 1 Coil?

I agree and some people seem a bit cocky on this thread saying that If you have to pay to get through it you don't deserve end game content. I disagree to a degree of that, alot of help that you get with pugs or even forming your own group there seems to be alot of delay. Or you get people who want to finish their casting before they move out of the zone which is complete bs. Im a great DPS but I cant seem to get in a group where the healers are on their A Game or the DPS know how to dodge attacks, Sure it took me a few titan runs to learn to dodge myself, those plumes can be tricky. Saying that someone doesnt deserve Endgame content just cause you somehow found a group that worked for you is very cocky and ignorant.

Titan is more frustrating than hard. I am sold of tough fights, but the more I attempt this fight the random bugs are making me want to turn the game off. This morning I get on and at end of first phase I have full hp jumps hits mid we are all stacked on tank for heal and half the party dies. So went from around 3800 HP to dead and no one else was say below 70% health. Or when I am completely out of landslide and goes off and 2 seconds later I fly off. I think If SE fixes the random crap this fight is winnable on the first attempt, with a player in a mix of ilvl 60-70 gear and knows the fight.

This fight doesn't need to be nerfed it needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Phaylis

Titan is more frustrating than hard. I am sold of tough fights, but the more I attempt this fight the random bugs are making me want to turn the game off. This morning I get on and at end of first phase I have full hp jumps hits mid we are all stacked on tank for heal and half the party dies. So went from around 3800 HP to dead and no one else was say below 70% health. Or when I am completely out of landslide and goes off and 2 seconds later I fly off. I think If SE fixes the random crap this fight is winnable on the first attempt, with a player in a mix of ilvl 60-70 gear and knows the fight.

This fight doesn't need to be nerfed it needs to be fixed.

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They said they're going to attack this problem in 2.1 for primals and Coil. Hopefully their "fix" works.

As a side note, people have been asking for this fix since 1.0 and ARR was supposed to be the answer... yet here we are closing in on patch 2.1 with the same hope.

I've been slacking on getting my character leveled up with his jobs, so I was just rushing towards the Titan fight for story mode. I actually want/NEED to get my AF if I even stand a chance for the story mode fight. I know I'm probably going to have trouble if I do the HM version. My laptop's screen isn't that big, I have window mode on at 1280x720 because my laptop will get hot if I go full-screen, my Internet randomly kicks me off, and so forth. With saying those things, yeah, I know Titan is going to be one (Bio) (Tachi) to defeat. I don't think I could get DL seeing as I have not completed Story Mode...

So I decided to queue up for Titan HM the other day and of the 7 pug groups I was matched with we all 1 shot the boss.

Is this still a thing? I'm on the JP server cluster if it matters.

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Originally Posted by Paks

So I decided to queue up for Titan HM the other day and of the 7 pug groups I was matched with we all 1 shot the boss.

Is this still a thing? I'm on the JP server cluster if it matters.

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Try NA servers. People jump inside the aoe thinking the boss is a joke. ilv28 gear. "first time . . . boy i wonder what this boss does :>".

Titan hard is easy mode for me, I can't wait for Titan extreme! That is going to be fun.

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Originally Posted by Paks

So I decided to queue up for Titan HM the other day and of the 7 pug groups I was matched with we all 1 shot the boss.

Is this still a thing? I'm on the JP server cluster if it matters.

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I've went in as PLD for killing time, took the typical Landslide at 20% but they still beat it.

DF isn't nearly as bad as some people say.

I used to blame lag on the Titan fight until I learned the actual mechanics of the game. People prefer to blame other things rather than themselves because

Here are some helpful tips at defeating these mechanics:
1. Never use an ability or finish casting if you are in the AOE.

2. Focus on just running the moment you see the AOE under you. If you have lag issues then learning the pattern of the fights are what is most important for you in reacting before those actions even appear.

3. Pay attention to AOE timers. You can run through animations as long as you were not in the AOE at the end of its casting timer.

5. Titan has 5 phases. There is a pattern in every phase. Learn it and this fight will become an easy obstacle.

6. Don't tunnel vision yourself. Keep your eyes moving. You can easily set a routine where your eyes follow a path. Here is an example a of what some DDs may follow (everyone has their own set path):
Your HP/MP/TP (use abilities that restores HP/MP/TP if low ) -> Boss HP bar ( check for boss using abilities ) -> Your Position (where you make adjustments if you are standing on top of AOE ) -> Check your CDs ( your ability rotations ) -> repeat.

When it comes to video games, game mechanics can be anything from latency (ping) issues to frame rate drops. Not every game will have the same game mechanics.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

I'd rather them nerf lag soon.

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The lag is what kills most groups with competent players. getting hit with landslide or plumes when you've already ran out of the aoe is 100% lag.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I've went in as PLD for killing time, took the typical Landslide at 20% but they still beat it.

DF isn't nearly as bad as some people say.

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DF or premade titan isn't really difficult. As stated many times people more fail due to it being buggy. This morning I attempted with DF grp and on third attempt we got to about 25% with a tank, dps and heal left, and if the heal hadn't got stuck in gaol the 3 left probably would have killed Titan. And many of these bugs are the same bugs since beta and if happen at a bad time it kills you. I can say what ever I got hit by on that grp was my fault but I ended up dying to stomps and got the delay heal bug. If the incoming heal hit me after cast we may have made downed it with the extra dps.

A great grp and well organized can still fail even if they do everything right on Titan. It's not very forgiving. And if SE can't fix the issues then unfortunately nerfing the boss is an option...Bad option, but one out there. I would rather the bugs be fixed and go from there.

[QUOTE=Phaylis; Or when I am completely out of landslide and goes off and 2 seconds later I fly off. I think If SE fixes the random crap this fight is winnable on the first attempt, with a player in a mix of ilvl 60-70 gear and knows the fight.

This fight doesn't need to be nerfed it needs to be fixed.[/QUOTE]


I agree today in Titan HM he turns to do Landslide and was pointed the other direction, the line came up and was facing left no where near me, he pounds the ground and the rocks fly up in that direction but I got knocked and throw off instead? They recieved damage too but i was no where near it by any measure

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

I'd rather them nerf lag soon.

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As would I. Finally beat Titan Normal (via DF) last night after 6 tries, kept getting killed by delayed AoE.

Titan HM really isn't that hard has it is you just need to actually be geared and know the fight the dodging isn't that hard minus bombs the last phase when LS hits first and random lag issues. I've downed him 3 times for relics and more just for fun I wouldn't go back to it if it was that difficult

I can't believe they are nerfing content like this in the future... What ARE THEY THINKING!???? Any decent coil-geared group can rip the face off of that fight without a second thought. Why do they need to nerf it when they are releasing item lvl gear already??? You are just wasting hardware/memory space.

Main problem with titan hm is the lag not because its hard... Titan is easy but if I lag. I die... plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

I'd rather them nerf lag soon.

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yes please

Hard or easy, all irrelevant when a large bulk of the community paid to be carried through.

I hope not. Titan is already easy.