FATES need a nerf

Why do so many fate grind? Efficiency. People don't like feeling like they are wasting their time doing something sub optimal when they could be doing something more effective just as easily. Or for dps classes, 100 times easier.

Want dungeons to be what people do the most? Make them the most rewarding time investments. Nerf fates without fixing the otherwise existant problem of there flat being too few quests and not enough to do to level and watch how fast ARR joins 1.0 in the graveyard of dead things nobody cares about anymore.

are you serious? lmao why cant you all just stfu and play the game? why must you all cry about it? nerf this nerf that.... are you mad? you are to lazy to grind up jobs? mad other people are blowing by you in the game? getting multiple relics and you are sitting on one job because you are lazy? stfu you all sound like little school girls crying over a leveling system put into the game to get jobs to 50 faster instead of grinding quest... lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOLyYOUcryin

*Largely incogent mangling of English expressing a completely ignorable opinion goes here*

---

Fixed it for you. I'm not really a grammar Nazi, but you're doing the text equivalent of crapping yourself and chortling.

Please stop. Its embarrassing, mostly for you, whether you choose to understand this or don't.

look i can use big boy words... im so cool. lol shut up with all that bs. you are making yourself look like a retarded a@@hole who looks at every word people type looking for mistakes. i guess you have nothing better to do with the free time you have. loser.

I really dont get why people wont allow others to play a game like they want too. Eventually its going to turn into fate grinding anyway, why is it so important to do low level dungeons? I say Fate's should stay the way they are because a lot of people are playing as they want to play and that should not be any concern of yours or anyone's for that matter.

Fire II twice. 18k xp. On boss-type Fates, run dps string 3-4 times and leave. 19k xp. Repeat from level 48 to 50. Shortest FATE I've seen... kill type, took 18 seconds, most of it in spawning the 3 separate waves. I'm not sure where the fun is in just trying to hit a group of targets once each before they disappear. The XP efficiency of it has either you running all over for a smidgen of combat or else hitting 50 well after your friends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOLyYOUcryin

you are to lazy to grind up jobs?
/.../leveling system put into the game to get jobs to 50 faster instead of grinding quest... lol

---

lol defending a lazy way to get XP by calling people against it lazy...

imo the multi50s alea rusher are way more lazy than someone doing all side quest, farming low lvl dunjon but only have 1-2 50s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrazyDuck

not only does it deceive the point in the game, but because you can lvl so fast it makes gear/crafting/dungeons pointless for getting to 50.

(dungeons) - for gear and exp is pointless as the exp is no where near the exp you get from fates and the gear you will just outlvl anyway very quickly from doing easy mode fates

---

The content is not pointless.
player "50asap,everythingelse is trash"mentality make it pointless
My 1goal in a game is enjoyment, not getting the last piece of gear asap.
I get more enjoyment doing lowlvl dunjon with my low lvl, switch to my 50 and do few HL dunjon, than grind alea, then spam 2dunjons until finished

FATEs do NOT need a nerf.

Rather they should buff all the other methods of gaining experience.


Lets be honest, if you want an optimal class you're going to have to level a few classes to at least 40+ it shouldn't feel like a massive grind.

I don't like how FATEs are the only viable way to level quickly atm, but I don't want to see leveling as a whole slowed down, just make other forms better.

The problem isn't really FATE XP though, the problem is that all the alternatives are just so bad.

Hell, I really enjoy group content but between how reliable they are and how horribly XP inefficient they are I can't really justify doing dungeons at lower levels just because the XP gained is so awful, that has nothing to do with FATEs, they're just horribly unrewarding.

Plus it's sort of obnoxious to come in here and decree that people who want to level quickly or who might enjoy zerging content are playing the game "wrong" and then demanding square destroy that for them. Fixing exploitable mechanics is one thing, but trying to make the whole game more grindy is just silly.

Quote:

---

I heard they're doing something to ease the problem of people blazing to 50 in all their jobs

---

I keep seeing people throw comments like this around but no one's actually articulated why it's a 'problem' that the option to level more quickly exists.

You all are looking at two sides of the same coin, people. "FATEs are fine, everything else just sucks" and "FATEs are bad because it gets too much EXP in comparison to its alternatives" is basically the same thing, just a matter of perspective. If anything they'd need to make FATEs more difficult. Solely for people actually starting to need to also gear up while leveling up they would make both crafting and dungeons slightly more relevant.

The primary argument for slowing XP intake down for most would probably be more long-term goals and thus more subscriptions. Sure, it'd mean more grind, but then again isn't that directly what most MMOs are about unless you're into PvP or roleplaying?

There is nothing stopping ANYONE from leveling another way but Fates. So happy the OP tested it to level 50 for the rest of us and decided that it was to fast for him to get to 50 so the rest of us shouldn't be allowed to do it.

I personally wasn't saying nerf them. I am just saying alot of the times there are way too many people doing fates (because they are lvling up the fast way if you want) that it does make it difficult for others to medal up. I don't blame them, I blame SE. When it comes to partying up in fates, like someone else says people get credit for others actions? Also am I correct in that doing fates goes towards FC points?

then make them scale properly, not nerf them.

In a way Fates should be buffed.

More specifically, the mobs should be buffed in relation to how many playerss are in the Fate active area. More people, tougher mobs. So it stops being a mindless AE spam fest.

If any have played Rift, you will understand what I mean. As with Rifts the first wave are the weak ones, yet if many people kill them, the next wave are much harder, hit harder and have higher HP to balance and keep the challenge for the quantity of players doing said event.

One the small number of occassions where I have happened upon a fate being done by 3-4 players they are actually fun to do, until the AE zerg rush appears and blitzes everything in a nano second. Personally I have never joined, nor have intention of joining a Fate farming party because of the lack of skill or risk involved in that style of play. It takes me longer to level, but last time I checked, there isn't a time limit of when you have to "finish the game".

To those who said they enjoy levelling, fine. Question is, if you enjoy levelling, why do you want it to end so quickly? Personally if I enjoy something, I want it to last. Otherwise, I only want it to end as soon as possible if I DON'T enjoy it.

To reiterate: Make Fate mobs scale in difficulty in relation to the number of players within the Fates active area.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elegance

then make them scale properly, not nerf them.

---

This is more of the answer I wish people would use more often. fates don't need a nerf, they just need fixing. Nerfing fates isn't going to change the way players (who don't participate) play the game. It's going to tick a lot of people off, and that's where it'll stop.

-1 for this topic.

Why nerf, if you do not like fates then do not play them.

This game already forces people to do dungeons across many levels.

End game is pure Dungeon grind. If bad players only grind fate and thus suck in End Game dungeons they get kicked out extremely fast or run into a skill brick wall.

Also bad player is bad player.

My Primary is WHM, I leveled up my secondary class BLM by leves and fates. I do not see how that makes me a bad BLM. I still can still run CM, Pr, AK easily ...

Ok player is ok, bad player is bad. Good player is good. It is as simple as that.

My friend has a PLD that he has not touched in 3 years (Legacy). He played BRD all the way to 50. Switched to PLD after lvl 50. After reading the skill tools. Asking for advice. Playing a few dungeons (still better then some tanks), he is now a pro.

Thus from my experience FATE does not nerf skill. Nerfing fates just makes the game more grindy and boring for secondary DOW/DOM classes.

Bad gameplay nerfs skill. Simple as that. And bad game play is based on user abilities, willingness to learn, willingness to seek skill and willingness to comprehension.

Everyone has to start somewhere, but it is where you go from there that makes a big difference.

First of all, I love the idea of somehow buffing up the mobs of FATEs based on the number of players participating, probably hard to do but it would alleviate the problem of being able to zerg rush through FATEs in no time at all.

That being said, FATEs of X level should give roughly the same experience as quests of X level, but right now they give significantly more. I don't really think this will ever be changed (decreasing the speed of leveling will never ever happen after an MMO launches) but it does seems like an odd design decision.

Dungeons should give 2x the exp fates do. They are harder, require teamwork, and generally take much longer.

However fates shouldn't be nerfed.

This way you have the choice of doing harder content and gaining more exp (dungeons). Or playing casually and getting a bit less exp (fates). That way there are also players who can help the new players who join the game and need to complete the dungeon.

Fate Quests don't need a nerf considering there isn't enough side quests to level all your other classes. Also Leves are very much limited, its almost as if you want people to grind mind-numbingly slow?

Actually, I think Square-Enix should create fates for DoL classes :P.

Maybe people should accept the concept of multiple characters and stop crying that it would take longer than 6 days to get to 50.

If you only plan to play for 2 months, we don't need you here anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Fate Quests don't need a nerf considering there isn't enough side quests to level all your other classes. Also Leves are very much limited, its almost as if you want people to grind mind-numbingly slow?

---

Its quite obscene how many people don't realize that rewards can and SHOULD be shifted around to other sources most notably to Guildhests and Leve quests. It doesn't have to remove potential exp from the gains it just puts it somewhere else so that the combined total of your efforts over a given time should end up being similar/slightly less. To be honest the way the game is now is more of a mind-numbing grind than anything. I would personally like a choice to do multiple things to level over just tapping a target for free exp since doing anything other than fates at the moment is a waste of time. That is my 2 cents.

I agree nerf fates they are way too difficult. I think I should get at least 1 level per fate as hard as they are.

Fates suck in my opinion. worst thing they could have did to this game. I'm currently at at level 42 white and blackmage. and I've done all side quests I can find and I'm only about 15% through level 42. now my only real opinion is to grind fates to 43 and at the moment i really don't feel like logging back in just from dreading having to do that.

Fates are so incredibly boring. players move around a zone like a swarm of locusts with no chat and the only goal is to have 8 people in a party and to get to the fate as fast as possible and just attack. there is no dynamics or thought put into the groups or the attack of the fate. please increase rewards for dungeons. make more optional dungeons so people will do those instead! Something other than FATE Locust groups

I don't care what you do. I got to 50 did a lot of end game stuff got my relic and all that and then decided to level everything else. Got everything to 20 and decided to try this FATE grind thing. Most mind numbing experience of my gaming existence. 20min and I was already asleep. If you can actually do that for a long period of time and not want to hurt puppies more power to ya.

Seriously people really need to think about this crap before calling for the nerf. What viable way is there to level besides Fates once you hit 50 on your first class? This game already has the slowest leveling mechanic out of almost all the MMO's out right now and you want to make it even slower? I can't wait for when the nerf does go through and all the people complaining about how 'quick' they are realize that the only thing left to do is grind mobs Aion style and come back on here to cry about putting the Fates back to what they were.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Icebane

<snip>This game already has the slowest leveling mechanic out of almost all the MMO's out right now and you want to make it even slower? I can't wait for when the nerf does go through and all the people complaining about how 'quick' they are realize that the only thing left to do is grind mobs Aion style and come back on here to cry about putting the Fates back to what they were.

---

Im not complaining about the speed at which people level up using fates. I'm all for making something else more viable opition to fates. I just think fates should be nerfed or scaled back in frequency because it is such a boring way to level up.

And I think I saw someone post on this thread that they were getting 80k-90k exp per hour grinding fates.. I went and did Stone vigil and made over 100k exp in an hour just doing that instance.

So if your o leviathan and in the low 40's and want to grind some dungeons add me as a friend. I'm on most nights after 11:20 pm est

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrazyDuck

I don't care what people say

---

you play how you want to because you pay your sub now dont go QQing about the way i play and pay my sub

i leveled up 5 battle classes in the last week through fates because im hardcore not casual like you

if you dont like hardcore stay casual and keep to your self mate

You won't be asking for them to be nerfed when you're leveling your third or fourth job... No quests for you to do at all by that point and the real game starts at 50. Making it slower would be harmful to the game rather then helpful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starr

You won't be asking for them to be nerfed when you're leveling your third or fourth job... No quests for you to do at all by that point and the real game starts at 50. Making it slower would be harmful to the game rather then helpful.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarleenQuinzel

Its quite obscene how many people don't realize that rewards can and SHOULD be shifted around to other sources most notably to Guildhests and Leve quests. It doesn't have to remove potential exp from the gains it just puts it somewhere else so that the combined total of your efforts over a given time should end up being similar/slightly less. To be honest the way the game is now is more of a mind-numbing grind than anything. I would personally like a choice to do multiple things to level over just tapping a target for free exp since doing anything other than fates at the moment is a waste of time. That is my 2 cents.

---

This is getting old. Nerfing fates doesn't require the total experience pool to be reduced. If you don't think that fates are leaps and bounds faster than guildhests, levequests and other such content then you are delusional. The total gain and ease of fates makes all of the other content that you would normally do to level completely useless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarleenQuinzel

This is getting old. Nerfing fates doesn't require the total experience pool to be reduced. If you don't think that fates are leaps and bounds faster than guildhests, levequests and other such content then you are delusional. The total gain and ease of fates makes all of the other content that you would normally do to level completely useless.

---

Do what normally? Guildhests give garbage for exp the second time around. Dungeon exp is based on whether or not there is a new person there. Leve exp is deplorable. Chain exp is fine, quests run out. As well the armoury bonus does not apply to Leves, it doesn't apply to guildhests or dungeons it only applies to fates. Which doesn't make Fates god sends, it means other sources of exp fall behind the second time around and many of them have decreasing value the first time around to begin with.

I was in an area earlier to day a fate popped, nobody came and I did it alone, for the time it took to complete solo the exp wasn't anything special of it's own accord, the armoury bonus made it better undoubtably but without that it was nothing, could've done 2 leves in that time frame and gotten similar exp. Went to another quarrymill whole bunch of people, leves finishing in under 4-5 minutes, exp gain was rapid. Which only says to me that fate gain is variable based on the amount of people in participation and when enough people aren't there a fate can be pretty mundane and sometimes not even possibly to complete. For example who is going to complete Svara's Fall if it gave crap exp, and no one can complete it solo. If everyone was doing other things the FATE would just be ignored.
This wouldn't be the case for Leves because there is a limit, not that I've ever reached 0 since there is little reason to use them as a battle class because they suck hand over fist and I rather run a dungeon.

leves need a buff, should start with being affected by the armoury bonus
Guildhests don't need to be super high in exp because they're more like tutorials but the 2nd time exp is too mediocre to even encourage running it a 2nd time for practice.
Dungeons aren't bad, but if there isn't a new person in them they fall behind very rapidly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hundred

leves need a buff, should start with being affected by the armoury bonus
Guildhests don't need to be super high in exp because they're more like tutorials but the 2nd time exp is too mediocre to even encourage running it a 2nd time for practice.
Dungeons aren't bad, but if there isn't a new person in them they fall behind very rapidly.

---

I didn't use the correct vocabulary for my purpose. When I said normally I meant other alternatives to fate grinding.

Leves: I agree need a major buff.
Guild hests: I would just like to see them apply per class as they are a tutorial which can help learning new jobs.
Dungeons: COULD be good it simply takes way to long to get into one for most classes due to the population flooding into Fate grinding groups.


If it was small groups doing fates I would say they are fine but its not it is nearly the entirety of the leveling population. Something needs to happen to push the new jobs/incoming new players off of fates and into other sources of leveling and I fear just buffing everything else wouldn't be enough to keep people from taking the easy way to level.

But what's wrong if they want to do that? Maybe they're solo players and so they'll stick to Open World content, quests, storymode and leves instead of guildhests, trials and dungeons.

My qualms are this
1 ~ There is content that is just really unrewarding and they need buffs in that respect, that's well known to most.

2 ~ You have places that are really dense with FATEs and places that are not despite having the same level FATEs just makes one area more appealing than another.

3 ~ Most FATEs have nothing unique about them in reward structure, simple exp and gold, which only exemplifies issue number 2 where you just go to the most dense FATE place you can find since anything else isn't providing anything different just less frequent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gigarit

Why are people complaining about leveling being too fast? =/

The majority of the actual game comes in the end game.

---

So sick of hearing this statement. When did it become ok to phone in 90% of a game world because we will end up grinding the same 2-3 dungeons at the cap anyway.. We need a new,old way of thinking where the WHOLE of the game is intended to be enjoyed and savored . That is why FFXI at launch shined, their was no point to focus on anything but the current situation because every step along the leveing path presented challenges that would not be over come in one sitting. ...You know,kinda like it was intended to be a game from lvl 1-75.

While i don't agree with "end game being where the game starts" I do personally believe that without fates, this game would be near impossible to level all classes to 50 in any effective way. There are only enough quests for 2 MAYBE 3 classes, and to that end players need something repeatable, and somewhat easy to level other classes. I wish other ways were viable, but with the game set up as it is. It just isn't.

Leveling my 3rd class. It is just to boring. Grinding leves is unrewarding both questing wise and xp wise.

If there is alternative quests or the ability to repeat quests again, it might not be so boring. As it is, the only difference between Fates, leves, dungeons and grinding xp by killing mobs... Is that Fates rewards more xp.

Thus is it not sensible to grind fates? I think it is. And until SE can come out with new leveling content, etc. Fates is the best way forward.

Why should class number 2 be as easy as class number 1 to level? Why should class number 3,4,5 not get harder as you go? What we have is a disagreement between people who enjoy
"playing" games and those who just NEED to cap so they can stand around feeling awesome about themselves, despite how laughable the progression to that cap was.


You will never find common ground between these 2 groups,in fact having both play the same game is asking for trouble and drama.

As it stands now,if someone were to say I have X number of lvl 50 in FFXIV, the only answer to muster would be "so what",while thinking in the back of your mind how much of a bad newb they must be to think that worth mentioning.

Nothing new I guess but still:

FATEs are fun, except when you repeat them all over in a group of 50 players trying to get their share. When you're in a small group or 3 or 5 players, they can be challenging (except bigger boss fight who would probably be impossible). Sure, it will not level as fast as swarming them, but it'll be fun. It's still better exp than dungeons... However, as you all know, every good FATE zone is overcrowded, which defies my point.

Do FATEs need a nerf? Not really, as many said. If you offer good alternatives like dungeons that gives at lease twice the current experience points, and Levequest that gives a bit more experience points than main/sidequests, people will stop zerging FATEs as they'll be able to level almost as fast with something less mind numbing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jibs

Do you not realize that once you have levels a few classes you are gonna be out of quest except for leves fates etc? There are people who want a lot of different classes and this game is made for that. Nerfing fates are gonna kill it for those of us who want to level many different classes on one character...

---

Well there's a way to over come that problem make a party go to a high level area and exp grind. Its not that hard to do;)

Why are people so depending on Fates and why are people wanting to nerf Fates. For the people that want to nerf FATES do a shout form a party and do some old school high level exp grinding. There you go problem sorted.

I can see that Fate grinding hurts the game in several aspects. But I doubt only nerfing Fates would really solve these issues.
Because I believe one of the major factor is not the progression speed but necessary time investment.
Let me give you one example:
If you are a DPS and you want to do a dungeon* via DF then your queue time will be about 30 mins. Clearing said dungeon will take you approximately 45 mins to an hour.
The time investment for one dungeon run is therefore roughly 1,25 hour at best and 1,5 hours at worst. That’s actually a lot of time if you think about it.
With fates you can jump in and out at will with no strings attached and that a huge advantage.

By nerfing fates you may slow the progression speed down, sure, but I doubt you will change the habit.

*Note: Not talking about populated high level dungeons.