History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Olde. Your idea has already been proven wrong in the thread. You don't deserve a thing simply because you buy arrows. Your reward has been paid in full: avoiding enemy melee and aoe range.

You probably couldn't even afford to be a XI ranger, and that argument STILL didn't save them from the hammer.

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You don't even play archer so how would you know?
Being able to stand out of range and attack is the whole point of archer.. and if you would have played it you would know if you do dd to your full potential, you will pull hate. You arent immune to attacks. You say archer should be nerfed because they're high damage and can stand out of range to attack... isn't that the point of archer...?

Other classes can do that same damage on the same mobs, I can make you another video if you like.

All of the classes have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Its like saying: We should nerf the hell out of GLD because of their damage mitigation and then nerf PUG for its TP generation. While we are at it lets nerf MRD for its HP! Hell, if thats our plan, lets just make 1 class so there is nothing that can be more powerful than anything else. Perfect plan right there XD.


You guys crack me up.

This is just the first video in my series, I promise I will make all the other classes look OP as well, k?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Other classes can do that same damage on the same mobs, I can make you another video if you like.

All of the classes have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Its like saying: We should nerf the hell out of GLD because of their damage mitigation and then nerf PUG for its TP generation. While we are at it lets nerf MRD for its HP! Hell, if thats our plan, lets just make 1 class so there is nothing that can be more powerful than anything else. Perfect plan right there XD.


You guys crack me up.

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To be fair there is only one person really calling for an Archer nerf.

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Originally Posted by RexSkyborn

You don't even play archer so how would you know?
Being able to stand out of range and attack is the whole point of archer.. and if you would have played it you would know if you do dd to your full potential, you will pull hate. You arent immune to attacks. You say archer should be nerfed because they're high damage and can stand out of range to attack... isn't that the point of archer...?

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I do play archer lol...you can sp grind on 999 arrows that cost 2k. Pathetic.
Back in XI, real archers paid 500k for 3 hours of arrows, back when 500k mattered.
And they STILL lost the argument you're trying to pitch.

Ranger: I paid for the right to be the only DD people respect!
Square Enix: lolranger...*dink*
Ranger: It burnnnnnsssssss!!!!!!!

Hey...we already squishy....and you want to take our asset(burst damage)?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Other classes can do that same damage on the same mobs, I can make you another video if you like.

All of the classes have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Its like saying: We should nerf the hell out of GLD because of their damage mitigation and then nerf PUG for its TP generation. While we are at it lets nerf MRD for its HP! Hell, if thats our plan, lets just make 1 class so there is nothing that can be more powerful than anything else. Perfect plan right there XD.


You guys crack me up.

This is just the first video in my series, I promise I will make all the other classes look OP as well, k?

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

To be fair there is only one person really calling for an Archer nerf.

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great idea,
by extending these mentality,
I wholeheartedly suggest OP stop playing MMO and back to single player game.
No one will outdamage OP there.


Complaining Lightning slapping Hope too hard is another topic.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

To be fair there is only one person really calling for an Archer nerf.

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Sorry, you are right.

I hear it a lot elsewhere, but in this thread, yeah. Just one ^.^

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I do play archer lol...you can sp grind on 999 arrows that cost 2k. Pathetic.
Back in XI, real archers paid 500k for 3 hours of arrows, back when 500k mattered.
And they STILL lost the argument you're trying to pitch.

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Ignore the arrow cost, thats not even a main point. What about all the other factors?
OH NOES ARCHER CAN STAND OUT OF RANGE AND ATTACK
wtfbbqoverpoweredloldrgnerf

=_=
Maybe the solution is to reduce a bows range to that of a lancer, and make arrows hit as hard as spirit dart. Also remove multishot. Then maybe that will be balanced.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

To be fair there is only one person really calling for an Archer nerf.

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And a nest of obligatory archers screaming. Same thing happened years ago. You lost that war too.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

And a nest of obligatory archers screaming. Same thing happened years ago. You lost that war too.

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The point?

If you mean the history should not repeat...thats mean we should stop Arc nerfing, right?

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Originally Posted by RexSkyborn

Ignore the arrow cost, thats not even a main point. What about all the other factors?
OH NOES ARCHER CAN STAND OUT OF RANGE AND ATTACK
wtfbbqoverpoweredloldrgnerf

=_=
Maybe the solution is to reduce a bows range to that of a lancer, and make arrows hit as hard as spirit dart. Also remove multishot. Then maybe that will be balanced.

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Considering that's the only self-entitled argument you've raised, go ahead and raise another one. It's not like archers aren't trying to reuse the same exact things rangers did before they got nerfed. There's nothing you can say to justify your current status, no matter how many archers you get behind you.

Every day you get more and more archers behind you because this demographic flocks to imbalance. Doesn't matter how many of you there are, you're drunk on imbalance. Same exact thing happened to rangers.

Everyone and their brother was a ranger in XI, and they still got nerfed so hard that they nearly became extinct. Square Enix got lazy, and now the same issues are popping up.

Time to send a message.

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

The point?

If you mean the history should not repeat...thats mean we should stop Arc nerfing, right?

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Nerfing ranger helped FFXI tremendously. It will do the same for XIV. In fact, nerfing it now as opposed to when the nest turns into a colony will spare it FFXI's horrible fate and painful meleer revolution.

Every day the archer blight brings the game closer to a generic death. Every day two marauders die and two archers are born.

Peregrine is just an angry troll who is mad that Conjurer can't nuke because SE messed up stats. Therefore, he will instantly be mad at any class that can outdo his damage and will try to justify it using "history" as a basis, even though it has 0 relevance to the current situation.

It's hilarious really. You would think that if there was something really wrong with the class, more than just him would have said something. Can't say I've seen anyone else agreeing wholeheartedly with him >_>

Peregrine, next tips and tricks video will be on how all the other classes can do just as much damage as archer.

XD

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Nerfing ranger helped FFXI tremendously. It will do the same for XIV. In fact, nerfing it now as opposed to when the nest turns into a colony will spare it FFXI's horrible fate and painful meleer revolution.

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Nice opinion, the logic behind the similar nerf would work on a vastly different game is totally absent though.

and again, the point?

Scratch that, every day 3 marauders die and 2 archers are born. Losing people, what's left are all becoming archers.

erm,how long it takes to do multishot2x+RagingString+Ferocity+WS?must be 2 or 3 seconds right?and enemies dont care while we preparing OMGOverPAWNED shot for it.....


oh wait.....

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Scratch that, every day 3 marauders die and 2 archers are born. Losing people, what's left are all becoming archers.

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You know why that is? It is because Archer is fun to play you don't just mash 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 unlike other jobs that is why so many people like it.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Peregrine, next tips and tricks video will be on how all the other classes can do just as much damage as archer.

XD

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A futile experiment if done well that will likely backfire. The community is flocking to archer for a simple reason: OP. Go to the great buffalo and try to outparse your ranger. A Ranger can damage it, die, return to the crystal, run back, wait for weakness, damage, die, wait for weakness, damage...and still beat the marauders and lancers who have been DD'ing the entire time...by 5% of the party damage.

Already know that. Happens every time.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Scratch that, every day 3 marauders die and 2 archers are born. Losing people, what's left are all becoming archers.

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I don't think you can trick anyone with this guesstimate. I thought you are originally trying to persuade ppl support your idea? How come you would ruin your own credibility by this laughable guesstimate?

So self-defeating, so sad.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

A futile experiment if done well that will likely backfire. The community is flocking to archer for a simple reason: OP. Go to the great buffalo and try to outparse your ranger. A Ranger can damage it, die, return to the crystal, run back, wait for weakness, damage, die, wait for weakness, damage...and still beat the marauders and lancers who have been DD'ing the entire time...by 5% of the party damage.

Already know that. Happens every time.

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without source again?

Every other DD can also tank. an archer can not. The trade off is higher DD. Seems fair to me.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

A futile experiment if done well that will likely backfire. The community is flocking to archer for a simple reason: OP. Go to the great buffalo and try to outparse your ranger. A Ranger can damage it, die, return to the crystal, run back, wait for weakness, damage, die, wait for weakness, damage...and still beat the marauders and lancers who have been DD'ing the entire time...by 5% of the party damage.

Already know that. Happens every time.

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If the tank do their job, and the ARC,PUG,GLA,LNC cooperate using BR, it think the great buffalo will down quicker isnt it?

or has already claim system changed?

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

You know why that is? It is because Archer is fun to play you don't just mash 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 unlike other jobs that is why so many people like it.

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You say that, but in reality it plays like every other job, just with more power. It's only fun because you're more powerful than other jobs. Not because your button mashing is any more varied. Your button mashing just puts more results out.

Nerf it guys. You have all been here before. You know what happens next. You can scream no all you want. It's coming.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Every other DD can also tank. an archer can not. The trade off is higher DD. Seems fair to me.

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Third time this argument is made, let's see how it ends this time.
Who needs a tank when you have 6 archers with provoke and instant enmity reduction?
Answer: No one. Archer can tank fine. With archers.

You all persist in acting like this hasn't happened before. Utsusemi wasn't what made rangerburns work. It was the rangers that killed everything before it could even attack a single character more than twice.

Archers can tank what archers would destroy. Easily.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You say that, but in reality it plays like every other job, just with more power. It's only fun because you're more powerful than other jobs. Not because your button mashing is any more varied. Your button mashing just puts more results out.

Nerf it guys. You have all been here before. You know what happens next. You can scream no all you want. It's coming.

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I dunno. You seem to be all alone asking for this nerf here.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You say that, but in reality it plays like every other job, just with more power. It's only fun because you're more powerful than other jobs. Not because your button mashing is any more varied. Your button mashing just puts more results out.

Nerf it guys. You have all been here before. You know what happens next. You can scream no all you want. It's coming.

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no?
how much it is like other jobs?
how much more power?
why it is fun to have more power?
How much more result? 50% more orange in the juice?

What is coming... WHAT IS COMING... TELLL ME!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

{fun}

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Third time this argument is made, let's see how it ends this time.
Who needs a tank when you have 6 archers with provoke and instant enmity reduction?
Answer: No one. Archer can tank fine. With archers.

You all persist in acting like this hasn't happened before. Utsusemi wasn't what made rangerburns work. It was the rangers that killed everything before it could even attack a single character more than twice.

Archers can tank what archers would destroy. Easily.

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Nope. Archers can not tank the rank 50 NMs.

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

I don't think you can trick anyone with this guesstimate. I thought you are originally trying to persuade ppl support your idea? How come you would ruin your own credibility by this laughable guesstimate?

So self-defeating, so sad.


without source again?

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The source is our shell carpenters who can't make enough bows, while bhuj's, lances, and knuckles all remain unsold. A R40 bow still costs 300k. Know what a R40 axe costs? 40. If that. Why? Everyone's an archer. No one's a marauder.

If you don't see the world becoming a generic archerfest...no wonder this thread comes as a shock.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Nope. Archers can not tank the rank 50 NMs.

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You really don't need to give example. Since within this thread, OP's opinion>ALL

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

The source is our shell carpenters who can't make enough bows, while bhuj's, lances, and knuckles all remain unsold. A R40 bow still costs 300k. Know what a R40 axe costs? 40. If that. Why? Everyone's an archer. No one's a marauder.

If you don't see the world becoming a generic archerfest...no wonder this thread comes as a shock.

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We are not shocked because of this thread, it is someon... I mean, something else.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

The source is our shell carpenters who can't make enough bows, while bhuj's, lances, and knuckles all remain unsold. A R40 bow still costs 300k. Know what a R40 axe costs? 40. If that. Why? Everyone's an archer. No one's a marauder.

If you don't see the world becoming a generic archerfest...no wonder this thread comes as a shock.

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Correlation != Causation

well looking at, i think peregrines point, is even if archer does the same damage, it takes much less risk in battle, because most monsters aoe and weaponskills is thier big danger, and most mobs ranged attacks are a lot weaker with shell ii id guess.

However, on the other side, i think most DD should come down to playstyle differences, you pick a certain DD because you enjoy thier style of play, which should feel unique.

Right now, i think Archer needs to be as good at DD, or close to it, because they dont have any of thier situational arrows that they were supposed to have

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Nope. Archers can not tank the rank 50 NMs.

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Sure can. Spread em out. When stomp only hits one at a time, and their nearby archers can land cures on them until the buffalo goes to another player, they absolutely could. And probably in record time. Only group that could beat that record of archerx8 on great buffalo would be thaumaturgex8.

You say you can't. The people who play archer for what it is know for a fact they can and can't WAIT for content to get so hard that they start being lavished attention on again.

2003 is back, baby! Ranger-get! Who wants a ranger??? Who wants some SP! Who wants some epic gear? Yeahhh you do. Yes you do. Yes you do. Rangerrrrrr....I'm awesome!

I think mrd need a small buff to DD and LNC need a big buff to DD.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Sure can. Spread em out. When stomp only hits one at a time, and their nearby archers can land cures on them until the buffalo goes to another player, they absolutely could. And probably in record time. Only group that could beat that record of archerx8 on great buffalo would be thaumaturgex8.

You say you can't. The people who play archer for what it is know for a fact they can and can't WAIT for content to get so hard that they start being lavished attention on again.

2003 is back, baby! Ranger-get! Who wants a ranger??? Who wants some SP! Who wants some epic gear? Yeahhh you do. Yes you do. Yes you do. Rangerrrrrr....I'm awesome!

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Nope. Onrush has a pretty good chance of taking out an Archer. Especially if they took a regular hit or 2.

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Originally Posted by Physic

well looking at, i think peregrines point, is even if archer does the same damage, it takes much less risk in battle, because most monsters aoe and weaponskills is thier big danger, and most mobs ranged attacks are a lot weaker with shell ii id guess.

However, on the other side, i think most DD should come down to playstyle differences, you pick a certain DD because you enjoy thier style of play, which should feel unique.

Right now, i think Archer needs to be as good at DD, or close to it, because they dont have any of thier situational arrows that they were supposed to have

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They have dispel, man. What more do you want? Dispel was the sole reason some jobs got invites in XI for years. Some guy thought he'd be cool to come in here and posture about how awesome bloodletter is. Okay, add that to the list heralding the only forseeable outcome in this encounter. With scour.

Who decided to give archers dispel? Bueller? Bueller? Is anyone paying attention?


In a parse, where your meleers are doing 18% damage, the archer should be doing 14% damage. That's a fair price.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

They have dispel, man. What more do you want? Dispel was the sole reason some jobs got invites in XI for years. Some guy thought he'd be cool to come in here and posture about how awesome bloodletter is. Okay, add that to the list heralding the only forseeable outcome in this encounter. With scour.

Who decided to give archers dispel? Bueller? Bueller? Is anyone paying attention?

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just give up i guess?

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Sure can. Spread em out. When stomp only hits one at a time, and their nearby archers can land cures on them until the buffalo goes to another player, they absolutely could. And probably in record time. Only group that could beat that record of archerx8 on great buffalo would be thaumaturgex8.

You say you can't. The people who play archer for what it is know for a fact they can and can't WAIT for content to get so hard that they start being lavished attention on again.

2003 is back, baby! Ranger-get! Who wants a ranger??? Who wants some SP! Who wants some epic gear? Yeahhh you do. Yes you do. Yes you do. Rangerrrrrr....I'm awesome!

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so...people already do that? or just theory?

the problem is on the enemy, not on design of ARC

about playstyle using arrow, yes I think it should be emphasized...

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Third time this argument is made, let's see how it ends this time.
Who needs a tank when you have 6 archers with provoke and instant enmity reduction?
Answer: No one. Archer can tank fine. With archers.

You all persist in acting like this hasn't happened before. Utsusemi wasn't what made rangerburns work. It was the rangers that killed everything before it could even attack a single character more than twice.

Archers can tank what archers would destroy. Easily.

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instant except for the huge recast part.
this thread is like trying to teach a cat to roll over.

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

Keep telling yourself that buddy.

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I'm a tad curious, when you mention Doomspike care to share what you use with it? I'm not a fan of the abilities that take up all my TP since they seem inaccurate xD

EDIT: Wow this got a lot of pages fast.

Made you a video.

Same situation, same mobs, same gear, 48 PUG instead of 50 Archer.

Second Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swRsHpF3BIc (repeating the example in video 1 on my 48 PUG)


48 PUG: 970
Archer: 1220

Difference: 250

Would a better weapon and 2 levels give me 250 more damage? I would bet that it would be close.

Conclusion: Find something other than damage to determine why Archer is OP. Damage output is not as off the wall as it is given credit for.

The original video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJTrQoGoUc