Amdapor Keep and Wanderer's Palace Adjustments

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

What the hell has the fact that it isn't an intended strategy got to do with anything? Just because it wasn't the devs intended strategy doesn't mean it shouldn't be ours.
You put up a challenge and we were beating it. But because we were beating it in the way we wanted, by using our brains and coming up with a better strategy than you, you change it.
This is the development equivalent of a kid taking his ball away in a sulk when he's losing a game. Very badly played SE, very badly played.

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A kid taking his ball away in a sulk when he's losing his game due to his opponent not following the rules. Using your hands in soccer? Cool, whatever!

This isn't our game. Square-Enix makes the rules, they are the law.

http://philleticia.typepad.com/.a/6a...a2e0970b-800wi

We are just a consumer.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

You never fought AV in FFXI did you? Saw this coming, also their house, their rules.

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Our money, our rules. See FFXIV v1.0 for examples.


Ultimately, the fact that people could, up to this point, skip most of the dungeon was masking the fact that the dungeon is attrociously repetitive and not the least bit worthy of being a dungeon that you will have to run literally 67 times to fully gear. Let's put it at a VERY gracious estimate of 40 minutes per non-sped run, you have to spend 45 HOURS in AK to gear up in darklight, or the equivalent in other equally slow or slower content.

This is for darklight gear only, which is just so that you are prepared to run the next set of content.

Great design.

My plan is to just join dungeons in progress and leave any that aren't on last boss.

I don't mind grinding for Myth but we really do need a larger variety of content... running keep incessantly for hundreds of times isn't a viable solution

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

We are just a consumer.

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I would not dare to say JUST the consumer, on the long run, we have the might.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

What the hell has the fact that it isn't an intended strategy got to do with anything? Just because it wasn't the devs intended strategy doesn't mean it shouldn't be ours.
You put up a challenge and we were beating it. But because we were beating it in the way we wanted, by using our brains and coming up with a better strategy than you, you change it.
This is the development equivalent of a kid taking his ball away in a sulk when he's losing a game. Very badly played SE, very badly played.

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Skipping trash is not a better strategy and takes less thought than it does to drop your pants and take a dump in a toilet.

Okay. we were derping around to try to figure out how to get to the next boss room. we finishe dit with like less than 40 minutes left. That being said. I'd estimate that a solid group can finish Amdapor Keep in 45 to 60 minutes.

Speed run is definitely not possible. Third Leg was impossible to speed run. (we wanted to test :p), as we basically had to kill every mobs to open the door. It could be all succubus must be killed or all Soul Collectors, but bottomline, you'd have to kill all mobs to do this anyway.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

How does SE expect us to gear enough of our jobs to allow us the flexibility to make parties for the highest level content?

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Funnily enough I'm actually in this exact situation.

My PLD is extremely well geared but unfortunately my FC is lacking healers, being one of the more flexible members I offered to focus on gearing up WHM from now on. I was planning on marathoning AK this weekend for Darklight but that's out the window now.. only alternative is Castrum which as I stated before is the most mind numbingly boring instance in any modern MMO.

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

Skipping trash is not a better strategy and takes less thought than it does to drop your pants and take a dump in a toilet.

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Skipping trash isn't a guaranteed completion of keep as most still wipes at the bosses, moreover, killing trash mobs doesn't require any more thought than taking a dump either.

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Originally Posted by Usotsuki

I would not dare to say JUST the consumer, on the long run, we have the might.

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Yes, but want people fail to remember is when you accept the User Agreement you forfeit all your rights as a consumer. You are leasing the game to play which they can take your account away at any moment without notice and for whatever reason they want and you can't complain.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

I'd estimate that a solid group can finish Amdapor Keep in 45 to 60 minutes.

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So completely not worth the time after you capped your weekly Mythology tomes.

Back to Castrum Meriboringum.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Okaaay Lol.

Third leg. HAve to kill EVERY. SINGLE. MOBS. to open the boos doors. (all mobs on upper floor)

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actually there is certain mobs you need to kill to open doors. first seal need finish lunatic followers. second need kill those flying monsters come out of statue, 3rd im not sure yet

Let's put this in to perspective, just so that people are clear that they know what they are talking about.

Assuming you use no other source than AK for tomes, which is the most efficient way, it would take 67 runs to fully gear in darklight gear.

At a very generous 40 minutes per run, it will take 45 hours physically inside AK to get your darklight gear, which you theoretically want to progress to the next tier of content. Per job. And, that is if you do it in 40 minutes, which you won't unless you are running with good dps.

Of course, you won't need ALL darklight gear since you will be getting myth too.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

Skipping trash isn't a guaranteed completion of keep as most still wipes at the bosses, moreover, killing trash mobs doesn't require any more thought than taking a dump either.

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Touche, touche. But still my point is saying "skipping trash" is a well thought out valid strategy SE should accept is rather silly.

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

Yes, but want people fail to remember is when you accept the User Agreement you forfeit all your rights as a consumer. You are leasing the game to play which they can take your account away at any moment without notice and for whatever reason they want and you can't complain.

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I know but if i dont like the changes i do and i know many that dont like it either, we have the right to stop pay. Making small mistakes is fine but the direction they take is concerning. They don't fix real problem and rather slap us in the face, having us kill trash that does 1 or 2 gil every once in a while. I do not approve of quick fixing like that.

Boss fights - four to six minutes.
Trash fights leading up to the boss - ten to twenty depending on how lucky you are with pats and how good the dps is.

Something isn't right here. Even if the trash mobs were worth killing, the time still doesn't make sense. Now there are even more mobs to kill.

pls riot y u do this

Also, tomestones should have a cap for each job a week... or none at all is the better option but good luck with that.

pls fix

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

Yes, but want people fail to remember is when you accept the User Agreement you forfeit all your rights as a consumer. You are leasing the game to play which they can take your account away at any moment without notice and for whatever reason they want and you can't complain.

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Its fine to think they way but what you are forgetting is that the customer maintains the ultimate power which is money. The way the game is now i dont see many people sticking around. Unless you can seriously tell me with a straight face that doing nothing but AK for months without speed running it will keep a player's attention long enough to resub.

The real fix? mobs drop allagan pieces/ very small amount of tomes(maybe 1-2) and more 50 dungeons that drop mytho tomes.

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Originally Posted by Usotsuki

I know but if i dont like the changes i do and i know many that dont like it either, we have the right to stop pay. Making small mistakes is fine but the direction they take is concerning. They don't fix real problem and rather slap us in the face, having us kill trash that does 1 or 2 gil every once in a while. I do not approve of quick fixing like that.

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SE can not FIX the mind of the people. If you want to be rewarded for killing Trash-Mobs that seems more greedy to me than anything else.

Like i've said before; SE should bring back the actual 1.0 Speed-Runs. Not fast enough to beat a Dungeon = Lower Chance on getting Drops, which would include killing Trashmobs faster. There would be your reward, if you kill Trash fast enough you have a higher Chance on Drops.

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Originally Posted by madolyn

speed running was time consuming as it was taking about 18 hours of runs to fully gear.

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18 hours to fully gear is time consuming?!? Seriously?

Did a Palace run earlier. Still no Myth stones for whatever reason.

The Tonberries in front of the second boss door no longer just stand there and let you walk behind them, they agro from the sides now. I'm assuming it's the same for all the Tonberries in the area. The big ones seem unchanged, though.

I'm pretty sure they modified sleep resistance on a few of the enemies, too, since I wasn't able to sleep most things I am almost positive I was able to before.

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Originally Posted by TheNeoReaper

Whats funny about all this is wants the 30 day trail is over. Most of the servers will be ghost towns. Is this how there going to fix 1017?

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No one will miss people that stop playing for such insignificant reasons.
1017 isn't really an issue anymore.

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Originally Posted by Nero

SE can not FIX the mind of the people. If you want to be rewarded for killing Trash-Mobs that seems more greedy to me than anything else.

Like i've said before; SE should bring back the actual 1.0 Speed-Runs. Not fast enough to beat a Dungeon = Lower Chance on getting Drops, which would include killing Trashmobs faster. There would be your reward, if you kill Trash fast enough you have a higher Chance on Drops.

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it's not greedy, it's just that we lose durability and gil for every trashpack we kill. We also waste time for what, 1 or 2 Gil every once in a while ? There are no randoms dropps, no Materia, no real gil. There is no purpose of these mobs other than annoy you and waste your time.

I would be fine with this 1.0, you better be fast stuff, sounds decent. Better than the garbage we now have to deal with.

The issue I find with trash mobs is unlike every other single mmorpg out there, nothing drops at all from these, you get nothing, just lost wasted gil (repair fees) and time.

If you made gil profit from fighting them it wouldn't be so bad, or if they had a chance (small) to drop the stuff from boxes it would make the rare item drop worth it.

tldr: make trash mobs drop gil or items from boxes rarely to make them not just a waste of gil/time.

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Originally Posted by Dekito

To be honest I bet this won't work let's say they make it everyone gets enmity. Everyone does the normal speed run and runs to boss, healer closely follows tank and as soon as he is about to die hits swiftcast raise. Now everyone dies like normal and mobs will run back at a guess. PLD nows accepts raise and raises the rest of the party. They need to make it so you have to kill all mobs to open boss gate!

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that will be unbalance now ppl wont play with WAR tanks :D

So since speed run still works,

Why not make mobs = 1 token per kill, that way its win win, you get an incentive for killing mobs. You just make it award it at the end to prevent people from killing few mobs and then leaving/rejoin.

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Originally Posted by KerenRhys

18 hours to fully gear is time consuming?!? Seriously?

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depends how much you play i suppose. 4 hours a day on average and that would take 5 days at the very least provided you had short queue times and did ONLY speed runs. think about it.

nice just when most ppl geared up from AK and i have only reached lvl 50 and done AK one time ... this isnt fair for players that dont play 24/7...

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Originally Posted by Jacob84

that will be unbalance now ppl wont play with WAR tanks :D

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Not an issue, they did in fact add gates that require dead mobs.

Also added new patrols and mobs in the old safe spots.

Can only really sac pull third floor now, dps pulls one of the patrollers over while healer reses tank

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-Bomb Boulders would sometimes fail to appear in “The Navel (Hard)” battle.

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NOOOOOO! You keep that one in! ; ;

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Originally Posted by Koeta

The issue I find with trash mobs is unlike every other single mmorpg out there, nothing drops at all from these, you get nothing, just lost wasted gil (repair fees) and time.

If you made gil profit from fighting them it wouldn't be so bad, or if they had a chance (small) to drop the stuff from boxes it would make the rare item drop worth it.

tldr: make trash mobs drop gil or items from boxes rarely to make them not just a waste of gil/time.

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When i did no speed runs with friends i made plenty of gil selling the skins from the hippo's they drop plenty of stuff for u to sell.

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Originally Posted by madolyn

depends how much you play i suppose. 4 hours a day on average and that would take 5 days at the very least provided you had short queue times and did ONLY speed runs. think about it.

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For someone who played 1.0 saying 18 hrs is along time to gear is quite funny took some ppl in my ls over 200 hrs to see one piece of DL.

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-Reduced the amount of gil required for repair fees and materia removal as follows:

Equipment levels 1-10: 10 gil -> No Change
Equipment levels 11-20: 50 gil -> 30 gil
Equipment levels 21-30: 100 gil -> 60 gil
Equipment levels 31-40: 210 gil -> 120 gil
Equipment levels 41-40: 500 gil -> 200 gil

-Reduced the price of Dark Matter as follows:
Dark Matter G1: 5 gil -> 4 gil
Dark Matter G2: 30 gil -> 12 gil
Dark Matter G3: 70 gil -> 24 gil
Dark Matter G4: 150 gil -> 48 gil
Dark Matter G5: 350 gil -> 80 gil

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People will complain even though now they get cheaper repairs and yes its far cheaper to repair your gear with dark matter then to pay a repair person now. So best hop to it and level up those crafting classes you need and the mining one.

i like how so many people complained about it but i bet you didnt refuse to do speed runs because you felt it was wrong lol

SE if you want to force us clear all the trash, at least make it worthwhile. Make them drop GC seals, Gil, more mats etc.

put tomes on chest at least u.u , boring trash is boring

Increasing the gil from the chest is all nice but it's still one person that will get it.
Statistically that's once every four runs.
With this change I probably will have the same if not higher repair costs when I clear all the trash that drops 1 gil tops.

People speed run because it's cheaper/faster and no one likes running the same boring instance over and over.
The level 44 and 47 instances could easily have had a hardmode level 50 version.

Just for diversity.


Speed runs like this should not be in game but this alternative is worse.

The amount of butthurt (however justified it may or may not be) in this thread is delicious.

What I don't fathom is how each and every single one of you seem to fail to realize that the faster you progress, the sooner you're at the top and bored with the content, no reason to play. Subscription canceled, uninstalled, off to the next MMO to 'beat'. Good riddance.

I'm not saying the fix was perfect, though. Seems to me it would be a better idea to tie rewards directly to the amount of trash cleared. Speed ran it? Okay, here's some ilvl 50 white gear. Cleared all the trash? Here's some darklight gear. Reward directly tied to clearing trash, so people would stop bawling about trash being meaningless. As has been stated, SE applied a band-aid fix instead of removing the source of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Kyp

The only way to make the trash un-skippable is to remove the leashing, even if after the tank dies they turn around and kill the healer, as long as the mobs reset to thier original posistion

Tank sac pulls to one corner, healer swiftcast-raise, everyone dies, mobs leash, tank accepts raise, reses healer, proceed to boss. Its been done in other games this way before

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This is exactly what I thought would happen as soon as I read the patch notes. It's very easy to do, as long as you have another res-er in the instance. Doesn't have to be the tank, could be a smn. Just anyone else with raise and you can get around it.

Well, that's what happens when people do something a way that is not intended, you have no reason to complain about this other than: ''Bah, why you stopping me from speed running?! I wants to speed run, nobody got time for trash mobs''. That's the thing though, that's the intended way to do it and any way that is not the intended way is just waiting for a change to stop people from doing it that way.


You agreed to this once you did it the unintended way, you knew that this unintended way was not the proper way yet still did it. If you didn't know that it wasn't the intended way then, ignorance is bliss. lol. Not that I agree that the time put is inline with the reward, though.

Aka excessively tedious tasks is not fun but challenging tasks? Yes, fun. But if you want to bore people to death, then excessively tedious tasks is the way to go though. You can make something take as long as you want to require but if the way to require is: ''Do this, 100 times, then maybe more'', then you're doing it wrong. That is not what a game should be about, at least if you want it to be fun.

80 hours clearing useless trash in the same dungeon for one set of AF2.
Casual players won't have the time to get AF2 in anywhere near a reasonable amount of time to keep them interested.
Hardcore players will be furious that yet again time sink rather than challenge is the obstacle.
So who exactly is this change good for?