Gear level, the final nail in the games coffin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mkilbride

Welp. Now, we'll see shouts "LF X class, with gear level x"

---

Some of you people are blowing this way out of proportion. The only thing this will change is at what iLVl your gear is, in total, to get INTO THE dungeon.
Tera has this system and its perfectly fine.

http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads...-the-world.jpg

Ah the good old PuG elitists aka the wannabes who lack the skills, both in game and social, to get a proper FC so they're at the mercy of strangers

I find that blacklisting idiots who makes outrageous gear requirements in PuGs is a great way to weed out the douchebags

That being said, i would have preferred gated content with one dungeon granting access to the next rather than a stupid gear level system which will probably be abused and circumvented anyway

Thanks Blizzard for introducing yet more shit that ruins other mmos too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

Issue here is that level 70 gear (Darklight) doesn't really take skill to obtain, it's nothing but a ridiculous grindfest for tomes. The patience required is way beyond the limits of more casual players. I'm casual, but I don't suck either.

---

The grinding is lame. There should be a tough dungeon that drops darklight equipment. More difficult than AK.

I welcome that average item level check since so many people with poor gear IE level 40 weapons, full AF, junk level 20-30 accessories bring the whole group down on HM Titan and Garuda for example. I agree there needs to be a minimum level of gear that would make it so your average pick up group has a greater chance at success.

The only way a very undergeared player will beat these fights is if they get a really overgeared player to make up for what they can't do. That just isn't fair. People should run some basic dungeons to gear up before doing hard modes.

It doesnt even take any effort to keep gear up to date / up to level so.... point being? O.o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nathanuc1988

I find it really weird that so many people use grey weapons over GC ones. Would only take a couple hours max to farm the needed seals.... maybe it's just an old way of thinking but my weapon comes before my gear.

---

You actually can't obtain the lvl 50 GC weapons until you complete AK though :S (it's probably easier to farm the Darklight weapons in WP tbh)

I am a supported of gear checks, I am not a supporter of douchy attitudes and elitist players though.

I think its only polite to be geared correctly when joining a group, but that's just me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shori

It doesnt even take any effort to keep gear up to date / up to level so.... point being? O.o

---

It takes a lot of AK runs to get several darklight pieces and that is putting more effort into your character then the guy who shows up in full AF with a level 40 weapon to Hard Mode Titan.

so 3 outta 4 should fail due to one that's under geared in content they shouldn't be doing. Yah, thats not fair at all. You DO know why its being put in. People are wearing level 20-30 gear or having a level 44-45 gray weapon expecting to be carried for their gear. I HATE doing a AK run only to find out the second boss can't be done due to a SINGLE dps or TWO dps having low level gear. I for one, welcome this change

What's classed as a decent gear level? My Marauder is 70 in full Af and a Skirmish axe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mkilbride

Welp. Now, we'll see shouts "LF X class, with gear level x"

Now people will be even more elitist. Christ. I saw this in another game before and it's just god awful. Elitism is already in the game, and then they make stuff to support it?

It's such a shitty thing to do to a game. "You've got all LV50 gear, really good stuff, some of the best, but your GL is 65, and we only want people with GL70, so go away."

Making Dungeons GL dependent as well. They're TRYING to kill all the fun with this game. Everytime I start to think it could be saved, Yoshi P dashes in and says "no, it can't! I'll cave to fan demand and add stuff that the VOCAL MINORITY wants!"


FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

Changes like this prevent a good community from forming.

---

Ok ok had to laugh a few times here :D. So i try to be as polite as i can be and give u some PRIME EXAMPLES from my past encounters with what u call "killing fun in the game" sir.

- We are doing Amdapor, the healer didn´t even borther to go into wanders palace for the ilvl55 Gear, so we just wipe at the 2nd Boss because he dies very fast - due to gear he has "low-life" and less "heal" so naturally if we were a normal PUG and not a 3man darklight group we would wipe till the dungeon timer runs out on the 2nd Boss. In our case the healer dies right after the Bees die and we still kill the Boss w/o a healer.. sounds that fun to you? I hope not.

- Next one is Garuda Version of course. PPl kill with level Gear Ifrit so hey, now they can q with the same "lvl 45" AF low end Gear Garuda right? Harder Boss but same gear... when the healer goes oom in p2 right again fun for u right? They will just outskill the content... but wait he can´t he has only X amount of MP and X amount of heal with that gear.

- Now to Titan, where it gets even worse. Somehow the healer got LUCK on Garuda and had a premade group of 6ppl maybe carry him through. Now he can go Titan. GREAT. AF gear lvl 45 and hes on Titan with 2,7k Life. He will go OOM, he will die to the stomps after the heart, and as u know, u get only 2 HEALER on DF on Titan. So say goodbye to the kill, cause its impossible to carry a healer in that particual encounter anymore.

And now u come in and say the Ilvl req. for dungeons ruin the game? Did they in WoW? Surely not as are still 7Mio playing that game.

U see, 1 guy with low-end gear can ruin 7 other ppl in an dungeon. It takes only 1 guy. Now think about 2-3 low-end geared ppl on Titan. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. U wont have enough dmg even with LB3 on the heart etc..

So now a secret: An MMORPGS progression is all around getting your character pimped, difficult content will get progressively easier with gear and so u need to have better gear for a more challenging content - thats a fact and not a thesis like u do with your "kill all the fun with the gearscore" which is simply not true at all - its the opposite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amyas

Ehhh AK is doable with af. Asking for more than af from pugs for AK is the kind of elitism OP is talking about.

---

+1;

Easily doable with AF. AK is not about gear, it's about reflexes. Been doing it in AF for a few days now. Picked up some new gear on the way, of course, but all it took was a bit of practice and the gear point is completely moot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ace28

What's classed as a decent gear level? My Marauder is 70 in full Af and a Skirmish axe.

---

It's an average based on the ilvl of all the items you have equipped, how strict the gear checks will be is anyone's guess but I hope its half decent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issac

+1;

Easily doable with AF. AK is not about gear, it's about reflexes. Been doing it in AF for a few days now. Picked up some new gear on the way, of course, but all it took was a bit of practice and the gear point is completely moot.

---

To be fair if you are a poorly geared tank doing AK (and yes I class full AF poorly geared for that instance) you are just making the healers job more difficult, but if that's they way you prefer to play then good for you.

There is a good reason why ilvl 55 gear drops in Wanderers Palace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spirea

Its so people using level 25 gear who fate farmed 20 levels can't enter AK and wipe the party because he gets 1-shotted as a tank or heals worse than a black mage.

---

I'll have you know as a BLM I've saved a number of wipes from happening after healer face-planted. Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

It's an average based on the ilvl of all the items you have equipped, how strict the gear checks will be is anyone's guess but I hope its half decent.

---

I know what a gear score is, I was just wondering what score would be considered good. 70 seemed high for AF considering some of the other posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ace28

I know what a gear score is, I was just wondering what score would be considered good. 70 seemed high for AF considering some of the other posts.

---

Guessing here but it'll probably be something like iLvl of gear that drops minus 5-10. So AK would be about 50-55. (iLvl60 drops), Ifrit would also be about 50-55 (iLvl60 weapons) Garuda and Titan drop iLvl70 weapons so 60-65. Perhaps a bit higher for Titan due to the DPS requirement for the heart. Carried over 1.0 Moogle weapons are at the moment also iLvl70.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

It's an average based on the ilvl of all the items you have equipped, how strict the gear checks will be is anyone's guess but I hope its half decent.



To be fair if you are a poorly geared tank doing AK (and yes I class full AF poorly geared for that instance) you are just making the healers job more difficult, but if that's they way you prefer to play then good for you.

There is a good reason why ilvl 55 gear drops in Wanderers Palace.

---

I don't always play tank in AK. All my DoW/DoM are 50.
AK is about evasion, not spanking and tanking. There's an exception at the last boss, but I seriously have not had a problem yet. I'm sorry, you're just incorrect.

Actually, come to think of it, my biggest boss in AK is r0. Receive 0. ><

This really doesn't make a difference. I'm sure elitist players have eyes and could just inspect your gear and deny you currently. I personally don't need a mod to tell me if someone's gear is trash lol. Just relax and enjoy the game dude. I mean duty finder wont ever call you out :D. I did HM ifirit a few times, took him down in dirtball gear. Cheers :D.

They better not put a min level on castrum, It has been very nice to grab an FC group and run it in vendor gear for souldbind.

I'm fine with ilvl requirements for things that have HARSH gear checks, like everything in this game past ifrit, but I think a better solution would have been completely removing these difficult encounters(you're never going to PUG titan, why even have it in duty finder?, and two tanks? really?)from the duty finder and forcing everyone to form communtiies, find a FC, and make a static for end game content.

You should be able to duty finder your way to 50, but end game content should require actual social skills, teamwork, and friends to get stuff done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteGarden

Let's be honest, gear score/check is only necessary because of the duty finder.

Its all downhill from here.

---

Pretty much, I like that duty finder was horrible for level50 content, between hour long DPS queues and very high chance of getting badly geared players, it encouraged people to find a FC/LS/friends/form a community. Making it easier for people to press a button and find players to play with isn't something that should exist at end game in a MMO, especially not one this grindy and challenging(Not complaining I love it).

Hopefully 2.1's same-server board thing is nice, but I doubt many people will actually use it when it takes more effort than press button - > afk.

XIV Community pre-release:
"God no please don't add duty finder."

After release:
"Wtf, don't you dare prevent me from using duty finder!"

Let's be honest, gear score/check is only necessary because of the duty finder.

Its all downhill from here.

Realistically, odds are what is happening is people are queuing for multiple level 50 dungeons without any knowledge of their being a difference between them.

I don't like being carried through events, I like being a contributing member. However I don't like strict gear requirements to even be able attempt to participate in content. As I said before though, I can see the use of using said things to help make sure people have a chance to complete the content.

Find it funny how so many have been going off on the accessory slots of people, when those are likely going to have the least amount of impact on how well someone will do. Personally, before I would do end game events I would make sure I had good gear for it, however I am going to spend more time and gil on making sure the more impactful slots like weapon and armors are top notch than the accessories. Unless you can prove an extra +1 or 2 in a few stats will absolutely make or break a run, I am not likely to bend over backwards for very marginal improvements. I would still go for them but they are not a priority.

Someone is complaining that the Gear Level thing will destroy the game? Uh no, since it is already there without it being there. Mor Dhona on Leviathan. "LFM For HM (Garuda or Titan usually). MUST Have iLVL 70, Garuda Weap or Relic, (sometimes Full DL req is in here too)." People already know what the suitable iLvl is for endgame content, and already demand that you die PUGs to be get what you need, learn everything from a bunch of deaths, and have everything to be able to play with them. This gear level feature just officializes (sp) it.

This is very necessary, we carried an offtank thru garuda HM, he was still in lvl 45 class gear with low level pink jewelry, failed to tank the adds causing a lot of stress on our healer, and at the end, the pally sword drops... and he wins it.... (nerdrage ensued with the entire group lol)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

doing asmuch DPS as the tank.

---

based on what 100% accurate damage parsing method, exactly?

So a bunch of people are crying because they want to be carried by the players who actually put some effort in updating their gear. Cry me a river and bring on gearscore gating to content!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordSideKicks

I believe it is there to avoid stupid ppl who fate grind lvl 5 - 50 without doing dungeon, leves (treasure coffer) and story mode. It is good in some ways.

---

you can't do ak without finishing the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiyo

I'm fine with ilvl requirements for things that have HARSH gear checks, like everything in this game past ifrit, but I think a better solution would have been completely removing these difficult encounters(you're never going to PUG titan, why even have it in duty finder?, and two tanks? really?)from the duty finder and forcing everyone to form communtiies, find a FC, and make a static for end game content.

You should be able to duty finder your way to 50, but end game content should require actual social skills, teamwork, and friends to get stuff done.

---

Well if you think about it, having a gearscore/check (call it what you will) will weed out some of those crappy players, one because they can't be bothered to farm for gear and the other because if you can't do AK multiple times you can't get the ilvl 60 to do Garuda and Titan.

Hopefully they will fix the latency/lag issues concerning Titan HM later down the road /eyeroll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteGarden

Let's be honest, gear score/check is only necessary because of the duty finder.

Its all downhill from here.

---

I don't think it is, you can pick up badly geared players on your own server just as you can in the duty finder.

At least with Duty Finder you know people are actually doing dungeons and obtaining gear in the process, it says nothing for skill of course but there is no way to measure skill until its too late :P

Well, the thing is Endgame has many DPS checks.

Demon Wall in AK is one of the firsts you will encounter. and its a race. I've been grouped by DF with dragoons using iLvl 44 weapons. And my friend that simply makes it impossible to pass the wall.

The game encourages you to improve your gear to beat the next step.

The baseline gear for Andapoor Keep would be AF and Grand Company Lieutenant Weapons. also don't Neglect accessories, wear the best crafted rings with melds. This will allow you to pass AK and even farm the gear there Wich is iLevel 60 and beats AF.

Sith AF you can also do Ifrit hard and farm the weapons wich are iLevel 60 as well.

Then with Ilevel 60 Gear you should tackle Garuda Hard wich is another DPS check. If you lack the stats to pass the DPS check then simply it will be impossible to beat Garuda.

Then comes Titan. Another big DPS check and also a very demanding fight for healers.

In our FC we are at that step right now, but we all agree that the DPS check is the highest so far, and also the healers must have great healing power as well.

So, right now we are all farming tome to complete our Darklight pieces, improve our jewelry and so. to Try again next Weekend. But dont blame groups that demand a well geared player for those fights, cause is simply needed. Instead of trying to rush to Titan, enjoy your game, farm the previous content for gear, and allways try to have the best in slot possible at the content you are doing. Its simply like all RPGs Online or Offline are made.

And yet nobody actually knows the exact requirements that everyone is already crying about...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Unaki

I am pretty late here but you can't promote yourself to Lieutenant without completing the Commander's level 50 quest which is "Complete Amdapor Keep".

---

Unless you got the rank in 1.0 already ^^

I welcome this change, bring on gearscore.

This game practically shoves gear down your gullet... have you zone into Dragons Head or Revenant's Toll lately? its a darklight convention.

Wow, why are people crying about a change before they even know what the details are? They could actually be positive. Nail in the coffin? Doom n gloom? Hardly...

All people are asking for is to block out people who are wearing lvl 20 gear and trying to run Ampador Keep. It is not being elitist to ask people to have the minimum amount of gear to use Duty Finder. Hopefully they only apply gear requirements to PuG groups, and not as a flat requirement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elendil_Voronda

Demon Wall in AK is one of the firsts you will encounter. and its a race. I've been grouped by DF with dragoons using iLvl 44 weapons. And my friend that simply makes it impossible to pass the wall.

---

Add that to the fact that DRG needs to be behind his foes to execute the full dmg which is impossible for that boss...

I'm on the fence with the inclusion of gearscore, only because I've seen the cesspool it created in a few other games when it appeared. While I personally don't like it and am of the mindset that this will breed elitism/give the average - bad players more tools to beat others over the head with, I can also respect those that will utilise iLevel stuff as it was intended to progress in the content.

By no means do I want to be responsible for holding someone back or feel constantly under pressure doing something that's meant to be fun, the same way I don't want to feel like I'm being carried along by higher geared players either; which is why I'm happy to play with LS/FC mates for more casual runs where needed.

Maybe there could be a way to appease both sides here - maybe for harder content, the Duty Finder could give a recommended iLevel you need to be at to complete said dungeon/raid - that way people know the absolute minimum iLevel your gearset needs to be at in order to go through the content with a decent amount of challenge. *

Perhaps a further way to help enforce it could be the Duty Finder actually doing a gear check before it allows you into the dungeon - that way players know for sure the people they're getting in their party actually have the necessary iLevel to complete the dungeon, and if the player doesn't, it won't let them in using the Duty Finder. This 'should' technically reduce people insulting one and other's gear not being good enough because the DF will have weeded them out, but I know some folks will still do it regardless - report them for harassment if that's the case.

That way, if players want to do the content with a lower iLevel, they can do but they'd need to turn to their LS/FC/own server for said groups to do it.

Or, possibly better yet, add a check box to the Duty Finder for each dungeon called 'Fun Run' or something along those lines to allow people to group up without gear checking (so only those that checked the box group up with others who did the same).

That way, players can still do the dungeon in whatever gear they're wearing alongside anyone else who ticked that box; and if people start complaining about people being unprepared or whatever in said runs, they won't have much of a leg to stand on insulting others/crying about bads ruining their run. They shouldn't have checked the box if they wanted people to have godly gear to do the dungeon.

TL;DR: Add a gear check function to DF to make sure players joining have the recommended iLevel for the content to appease one group, and add a 'Fun Run' option for players who don't mind running with others in whatever gear they have for the rest of us.

* I know there's a bit of a loophole atm in terms of getting a higher iLevel despite having subpar gear, which is why there needs to be a way for DF to check everything and not just the weapon iLevel

There seems to be a lot of emotion on either side of this debate but frankly I don't think either side is wrong per say (in pointing out the abuses). That being said the back and forth concern seems to be coming from the center left and center right aimed at the far left and far right and painting the entire other side with the same brush. I think it's incumbent upon us to isolate the far left (those who run with wholly insufficient gear expecting idk what), and the far right (those who use the gear score in extreme exclusionary ways asking utterly unreasonable things for the content in question). The system is fine when the middle of the road is found. Gear scores can function as a partially objective measure for dungeons telling the player "This is what you should need to ensure your experience isn't absurdly difficult or absurdly easy". The reasonable player will think to himself, well it seems that I'm not quite ready for this, I'll do X and Y to improve and then I can start making attempts. The player on the other side of the fence will be able to rest somewhat easy knowing that, at least in terms of gearing, those he's playing with won't be dead weight leaving him to wonder why a run is struggling or failing. Doing something over and over when you're just not technically qualified serves no purpose and frustrates all involved.

The trick is, I think, not allowing the iLevel to completely lock people out of dungeons (the game is doing the locking out here, not players refusing to invite you). This leaves room to deviate from the system which is important, especially, let's say, in the context of intentionally wearing garbage to spirit bind it.

Join a good FC and don't worry about it. I hate gearscore but its needed in this game. People will grind their second jobs to 50 in FATEs and have all level 15 gear.

And here I was thinking that gearscore limits will help prevent the more baffling elitist BS…

“What do you mean you don’t already have gear from the dungeon we’re about to run? You can’t run this dungeon with gear from this dungeon!!! #@%$ing noobs!”