Devs Want Behest Feedback

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

That's exactly right. I went to Nanawa Mines as a Rank 25. In the group was some moron who used a Rank 10 Marauder just to get 600 SP (Which was basically all we got anyway in the end) then came back as a different class as a Rank 38 Pugilist and said I'M the one who was dragging SP down.......What a joke......

DarkStarPoet there is a simple way that you can solve your problem. WAIT! Why don't you stop doing Behest with your party until you're all the exact same level? Just because you're 37(Maybe?) and your team-mates are 33(Maybe?) doesn't give you the right to butcher SP for the rest. Take some responsibility and either wait on others, or go to another Behest while your group stays at the other. I'm sorry, but there needs to be a limit on Behests so people can stop butchering it for others.

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first off when i personally get over the rank of the behest range it 24 34 44 i do not join the behest. yes, if my party is there and it is a quiet location and nobody else is in i will join the behest for additional mob spawns for the party. in other words if they have 7 people i will join last minute to give 8 people full party bonus and not join in the actual fighting and sit by the node. it helps the behest party twice by giving them full party buffs and additional mobs, but by sitting at the node i am not affecting the rest of the behest sp wise.

i usually sit and craft anyways because i get more sp crafting than i do behest no matter my rank.

secondly if you are in the 5 level rank of your party you are not hurting the sp for the behest anyways so learn how the sp is setup and works before telling others how to play. if the lowest person in the behest party is 32 and they have a 37 in their leve party that person should not be excluded. now if the lowest in behest is 31 then, yes, you have a point. i bring this up because most times when my leve group runs leves we are the only people in the area so what does it hurt anyone to keep the party together if you leave nobody out.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

n other words if they have 7 people i will join last minute to give 8 people full party bonus and not join in the actual fighting and sit by the node. it helps the behest party twice by giving them full party buffs and additional mobs, but by sitting at the node i am not affecting the rest of the behest sp wise.

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Actually, you are. As long as you're in the party, you're affecting SP. What you're supposed to do is join the behest and then leave the party.

Unlike the SP system at retail launch and beta, this one doesn't take proximity into its calculation. Here's a more detailed explanation:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

Please make it more appealing to Behest in areas outside of Thanalan. I'm getting tired of going to other camps and not being able to complete them due to the fact that there is never anybody there.

Case in point: Camp Horizon. I've missed the last 5 Behests due to over crowding.

Yeah I was under the impression that just being in the group as a rank 5 levels higher than yours would result in less SP regardless of where you were. DarkStar I meant to say 31-37, but it was a slight mistake. Also there's no point in Full Party benefits since the enemies are too easy anywho atm to even need the 5% more HP.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Actually, you are. As long as you're in the party, you're affecting SP. What you're supposed to do is join the behest and then leave the party.

Unlike the SP system at retail launch and beta, this one doesn't take proximity into its calculation. Here's a more detailed explanation:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

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actually they stated it does, but it does not.

let one person go afk during a leve and get left behind and your sp will increase. we've tested it before since all of these patch notes by going after the doblyns in nanawa. we killed the pair in the east end(586sp), then we left one person on the east end when you make the long run west. killed one mob with them in party(649sp) and left room to disengage. we allowed them to drop party and went back in and killed the mob one person shorter(649sp). that extra person did not hurt the sp whether they were near us or not.

now this may not be the normal result, but it was what we found in the one leve we tried it on.

once you leave the party as you stated then the party loses the bonus. i do agree with kimahri in that the buffs are not needed at all, but people love seeing that emblem.

like i said there is no problem leaving the party for me if i only joined it to help them out, but i do not mind helping out other people in a behest get more mobs to kill. if i need to join then leave i'd be glad to just my testing had showed it actually didn't matter. back to the point though i don't join for my own benefit since i do not get drops or sp off the mobs so wouldn't be technically the reason people complain as i join and craft cause the sp is too low for my rank, but it would stop people from being able to help their parties.

one thing i would love to see, however, is say you have 8 people join the behest and you have multiple people still waiting. could they just start party 2, party 3, so forth and so on. they could go as far as to auto assign people to the correct parties before the behest began to allow max rank/sp bonus for each of the parties and not have to leave anyone out nor gimp any one groups sp. each behest goes to different locations. i think it's 3 for each camp so why not make it so each party goes to one of the areas and allows everyone to party.

In regards to your SP gain. Do you suppose that you were under fatigue last week and that first levequest enemy which resulted in 585 or whatever was the 10% reduction of your fatigue? I know after my fatigue is over that I still have one enemy in which I retain fatigued SP before it goes back to normal. Another thing could be this stupid claiming system. Maybe you guys killed a Yarzon, Gnat, etc, before you fought the levequest enemy and someone accidently hit the little bugger which resulted in less SP?

There are so many different factors that could affect the outcome of SP gain, but I've been in countless levequests with others and I've yet to see more SP from just one person being on the other end of the map. Just recently was in the Nanawa Mines. We received roughly 1050 off the Puk's in Necrologos levequests, then someone had to give their baby a bottle. We ran all the way over where Bardi spawns and still only received 1050. Then came back to where she went away and still retained roughly 1050 with her near us.

I'm not calling you a liar though, so don't get me wrong. Hell there could be a bug about it. There's f'n plenty of them in this game. Seriously don't know what good the Alpha & Beta tests were in finding bugs, because I still see so many. Hell just the other day I reported one about Iron Fish Hooks. All I'm saying is that there are other possible outcomes as to how you received roughly 10% less SP on the first one than with the rest.

party SP goes by this formula: (base SP) x (party member # modifier) x (dlvd modifier)

The party member number modifier is the same whether the rest of your party members are right next to you or in a different zone.

details:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

i'm just saying there's been multiple times someone goes to the bathroom and does put one of us on autofollow and will get hung by doors or different items while on autofollow(especially in nawana) and we do see an increase in sp when we kill the mobs. i know it's not supposed to work that way, but it seems it does and like i stated earlier i just tested it once so it may only be one of those sp blips that we've all seen from time to time.

yeah, kimarhi i am about 99% sure i was fatigued when we tested it. i'm only non fatigued for maybe 3 hours a week(one good leve party) and the rest of the week it is up to which stage fatigue lol.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i know it's not supposed to work that way, but it seems it does and like i stated earlier i just tested it once so it may only be one of those sp blips that we've all seen from time to time.

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Probably a blip.

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

DarkStarPoet there is a simple way that you can solve your problem. WAIT! Why don't you stop doing Behest with your party until you're all the exact same level? Just because you're 37(Maybe?) and your team-mates are 33(Maybe?) doesn't give you the right to butcher SP for the rest. Take some responsibility and either wait on others, or go to another Behest while your group stays at the other. I'm sorry, but there needs to be a limit on Behests so people can stop butchering it for others.

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I agree there needs to be a cap to behest but they could also solve this issue with level sync.

Fix the Battle system. Fix the Stats System. Fix the ability system. Give diffrent class's more defined Roll's

Make Equipment matter

Once you have that done. Fix Mob balancing so its fun


Looks like they trying to fix this backward.

What I want in Behest:

1- Level sync

2-Monster diversity please! I'm tired of beating the same mobs over and over again....

3-More mobs to kill.

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Originally Posted by nakrulz

Needless to say, having only 8 players able to "luckily" participate in a behest is....please excuse me if u will, RETARDED, especially when the behest wardens bugs out and reply you with "Cannot load" after clicking yes to participate. I play on prime times and thats the only time when I'm available to play, and most likely the camps are packed with 10-15 players spamming the warden. People shouldn't have to try their luck to get into behest parties. If they are there and wants to join then they DESERVE a spot. I hate it when I travel far, use up some of my anima to only find out the behest parties is full because I wasn't lucky enough to spam myself with a spot. The old behest system is by far much better, more convenient and friendly in every aspect I could think of. But obviously I don't think SE will revert back to the so-called-improved-behest system. Lets hope they understand how frustrating it is to get a behest spot especially I'm not the only player experiencing this.

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I agree on this too.

A couple of issues I have seen so far. This has all been said already, but I feel it important to reiterate so dev's know what people consider important.

- Automatically forming groups for Behest would save a lot of issues. Either people not forming them, people being left out, etc.

- Monster difficulty is currently quite low when there is 8 people in the group... Are the monsters scaling to group size at all?

- Final boss that spawns after the standard behest mobs were... LADYBIRDS! No thanks. Put a big boss there to strike fear into people! Roar!

- Claiming of mobs is an issue, especially with newer people. People get angry when people aren't attacking things with red names etc. Just make everything claimed automatically so the SP gain is even.

- Only allowing 8 people to take part per behest causes issues, people camp the little green named guy and leap on him whenever he spawns. Either have a queue system, or allow everyone to take part so people's time isn't wasted if they can't click on the little green guy quick enough.

There are certain things I see there, Meridian, that can be adjusted in my views to make it just even more better. I'll go over yours one at a time.

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- Automatically forming groups for Behest would save a lot of issues. Either people not forming them, people being left out, etc.

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This one really isn't required. If people are in a party with others that don't have Behest tags, what's to become of them? I'm sure they tried to get in. What I feel should happen is that they approach this like they did in FFXI's Besieged and Campaign. Make it accessable to attack whatever enemy the current Behest group is fighting without need to be in the group to obtain SP. Although this would also require a level cap to accomplish because if not you'd have some serious jackasses coming in and destroying SP for everybody.

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- Monster difficulty is currently quite low when there is 8 people in the group... Are the monsters scaling to group size at all?

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This I agree with. Especially the Behests past R20 camp sites like Horizon, Bloodshore, etc. Coming from Nophica's Wells is a rather joke. I've seen enemies there that are R34, R39, R44-46......And mostly the same SP throughout the entire thing. Not only does SE need to raise the level of the enemies at Nophica's Wells, Nanawa Mines, etc, to at least R44, they also need to tune the SP gain that comes along with it. Why go to Nophica's Wells or Nanawa Mines when I get roughly the same SP at Camp Horizon & more people show up there which results in more SP?

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- Final boss that spawns after the standard behest mobs were... LADYBIRDS! No thanks. Put a big boss there to strike fear into people! Roar!

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This one I really couldn't care less about. I don't mind that there's currently 3 Ill-Tempered Puk's at Nophica's Wells final battle. I think that they should be about as difficult as that, because I've seen those puks cluster someone and TP move his ass to death. I've seen the Imp in Nanawa Mine's cause the entire team to wipe due to his insane TP move. To be honest I wouldn't care if they added Beastmen into the final fight. As far as this concerns me though? Not really. I'm in it for the SP. So the more SP, the better.

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- Claiming of mobs is an issue, especially with newer people. People get angry when people aren't attacking things with red names etc. Just make everything claimed automatically so the SP gain is even.

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Hell yes! I really want the claiming feature changed. To this I can't say anymore than that it needs to be changed so people that fight the other enemies won't harm you. I try my best to get people to attack the red enemies, but to no avail. Also it's rather some bullshit how you get SP lossed if you even attack the non-red Behest enemies.....Or any enemy for that matter.

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- Only allowing 8 people to take part per behest causes issues, people camp the little green named guy and leap on him whenever he spawns. Either have a queue system, or allow everyone to take part so people's time isn't wasted if they can't click on the little green guy quick enough.

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This is a very strong topic people are concerned with. What I suggest is that SE keeps the system with the amount of enemies able to spawn out, but allow more than 8 people to be able to join. What you can then do is just raise the difficulty. Say that the cap of enemies stays at......24 enemies total at Camp Horizon? However if there turns out to be 16 people then you will need to raise the level of the enemy by........1-2 levels per extra person past the 8 man team? That way it will make the enemies more difficult to be slain. However to keep this from being overcrowded, make it 16.......Maybe 24 person cap. All we need is 30 people to show up for a Behest at 25 and see enemies that are Rank 90. So there needs to be a cap somewhere along the lines.

Like anything my suggestions could be refined by others. Hell this could even be solved by what someone suggested as that Behest should be a 30 minute cooldown timer for YOU, and not another timed instance like it is now....That way you can always join Behest every 30 minutes instead of maybe missing your chance.

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Originally Posted by Meridian

- Monster difficulty is currently quite low when there is 8 people in the group... Are the monsters scaling to group size at all?

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No, only the overall mob number is scaled to group size. Mob level stays the same.

Alot of great ideas floating around in this thread.

I especially like the suggestions to make Behests an individual cooldown timer instead of a Battlewarden spawning every half-hour and getting mugged by whoever has the fastest quick-draw fingers, and shutting everyone else out who wanted to participate.

Incorporating Beastmen tribe enemies and some kind of a special Boss enemy could also be great additions.

I also really like the idea of getting rewarded with some type of nation/faction points along with some way to recharge a portion of your anima.

I'm new to these forums, but it seems like a really great place to exchange ideas between people who genuinely love the game and want to make it an even better experience. Looking forward to hanging around and tossing my two cents in!

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Originally Posted by Lucian_Beoulve

Alot of great ideas floating around in this thread.

I especially like the suggestions to make Behests an individual cooldown timer instead of a Battlewarden spawning every half-hour and getting mugged by whoever has the fastest quick-draw fingers, and shutting everyone else out who wanted to participate.

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I think the point of the behests was to encourage party-formation among strangers. Having an individual cooldown would make people just do behests with the same people all the time as they would share the same cooldown. This is why I want to keep the "every-half-hour" aspect, but create multiple instances if more than 8 people apply at once.

Right now, no one uses a pickup group for anything, so the only thing left to do in game is solo (which is boring), or camp the battle warden every half hour. This is giving me flashbacks to Dragon's Aery, and is in no way whatsoever fun, and isn't rewarding enough for the frustration of missing out on some of them. Instance it, scale it back up, allow pre-formed parties to have their own instance, anything. Right now, it's terrible.

I get the feeling people only do behest because it's the most efficient grind exp other than levequests. Make regular grinding more rewarding and/or fun, and I bet people would actually use pickup groups.

SP reward added to the behest reward.


In a JPN thread titled, "I want the last enemy of the behest to be a proper boss", Foxclon wrote:

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Originally Posted by Foxclon

こんにちは。

ビヘストに関するアイディアありがとうございます。担当と確認してきました。ボスをNMないしNM的なボスとしていくかどうかについては、今はそのような想定ではないのですが、今後検討してもらうこととしました。

ビヘストについての直近の予定では、パッチ1.18で報酬に修練値を加える件などを含んだバランス調整を行い、その後にビヘストのモンスター出現のバリエーションを増やすことが想定されています。

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"Hello

Thanks for your behest idea. I confirmed with the devs that there are currently no plans to have NM-like bosses, but we'll consider it in the future.

Patch 1.18 will include balance adjustments like including SP along with the behest reward. After that is implemented, we plan to increase monster variation."


I'm not sure if the SP reward is the only thing that's gonna be added to 1.18 behest. I hope not. I'm kinda bummed that there isn't any present solution to the boring "boss" at the end of behest. I mean, really, is it that hard just to program the existing last boss to spawn a huge beastman along with some minions? That should take only like, an afternoon to implement and a week or so to test.

As for monster variation, why is still just in the planning phase? I mean, is it really that hard to change the monster spawn table for each behest? This should have been fixed 6 months ago. Why is this taking so long? lol

All the changes we've seen so far from release until now are incredibly superficial and don't even scratch the heart of the problem. We need something more. Hopefully there is more in 1.18.

Well the enemies that spawn at the end of behests are usually larger than normal...but if we cant have beast tribe enemy bosses that lead stray monsters to cause havoc around the place, at least make the last behest enemy once of the more menacing monsters with a larger size:

Ahriman
Drake
Boar
Gobbue
Salamander
Diremite (horned scorpion class)
Malboro

As for monster variation, I agree. We should be seeing non-native enemies to the region invading, especially if behest is to knock out hordes of enemies causing more trouble than usual. Should be encountering things like flan,antlings,diremites (i just like their design lol), Piestes, etc.

Gobbues, Diremites, and Marboros are already quite big (ive seen Banemites and they are quite large and do alot of damage) But I totally agree with you, the end mobs should be larger and stronger.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I'm not sure if the SP reward is the only thing that's gonna be added to 1.18 behest. I hope not. I'm kinda bummed that there isn't any present solution to the boring "boss" at the end of behest. I mean, really, is it that hard just to program the existing last boss to spawn a huge beastman along with some minions? That should take only like, an afternoon to implement and a week or so to test.

As for monster variation, why is still just in the planning phase? I mean, is it really that hard to change the monster spawn table for each behest? This should have been fixed 6 months ago. Why is this taking so long? lol.

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I can think of a hundred more important issues to deal with from the top of my head.

But, ah yes. They have infinite manpower and infinite resources, so they can work on everything simultaneously and finish it all in an afternoon. Prioritizing is for those fools who are chained by petty details like reality.

Thanks for the translation, anyhow.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

Make Behest reward "nation" points.
Instead of a stupid small amount of gil we are currently getting we should be rewarded some kind of nation points that could be spent in various ways. This way instead of gear dropping in Behest and random people fighting it out for it we could be spending those points to buy gear, teleport scrolls, raise scrolls, potions, etc. Tons of possibilities here.
I had an idea where there could be some unique bosses for each major Behest area or even one per nation and you could use a certain amount of nation points to gain an access to an "advanced battlefield" in which you could have a rematch against the boss with a group of friends.

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This idea sounds pretty awesome to me. ^^

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Well the enemies that spawn at the end of behests are usually larger than normal...but if we cant have beast tribe enemy bosses that lead stray monsters to cause havoc around the place, at least make the last behest enemy once of the more menacing monsters with a larger size:

Ahriman
Drake
Boar
Gobbue
Salamander
Diremite (horned scorpion class)
Malboro

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Indeed. It can't be that hard for the programmers to delete the Chitinous Coblyn "Boss" and replace it with some Diremites and Peistes, can it?

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Auto-group everyone who accepts the behest into a party.
Too much time is wasted by people having to form their own party in a behest.

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Please! I don't enjoy being ignored, and refused an invite to behest party just because I'm an English player playing at Japanese prime time. :(

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Originally Posted by Kalsic

Please! I don't enjoy being ignored, and refused an invite to behest party just because I'm an English player playing at Japanese prime time. :(

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They won't invite you because you speak english? In every behest I've joined weather it be mainly JP or english they invite everyone who is in behest. What server are you on that they won't invite you?

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Originally Posted by Ruri

They won't invite you because you speak english? In every behest I've joined weather it be mainly JP or english they invite everyone who is in behest. What server are you on that they won't invite you?

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I asked in both English and auto-translate for a behest invite. I believe some of the Japanese players found it rude that I wasn't invited because they didn't engage the monsters once the behest started.

This happened on Cornelia a few days ago at around 4am EST, but I don't remember the names of the players sadly. I would have ignored it until I found this thread asking for behest feedback.

make it more like campaign battles, harder, way more mobs and waves. and just like all grind the mobs are zerg easy, needs to be working more like ffxi, more dynamic battles. lots of debuffs, enfeebs and buffs from mobs and players needed.

make it easier to go and join for people who are in party regular grinding like presign ups that give u an auto tele to the camp so u can grind and jump right to it maybe.

they boring at moment, i not done them in 6months. also just like campaign battles even though they were very fun compaired to behest, it was still not very full of players. needs more sp or equal sp to regular grinding and leves. or liek others mention, give a reward that can't be gotten by anything else but behest. but again then behest needs to be more fun or it will just be like a dude with a gun to u'r head.

More, bigger, stronger, faster, more rewards less down time. I want to feel like i am going to a mini war for 15 minutes not a walk in down town LA ;)

Right now very few people even play this game. Imagine what it will be like trying to join a behest party in the future with say 2000 players online at a given time. Even with behest running every 30 minutes, everyone who wants to participate won't be able to. I liked the soloution of making it more like campaign in XI. Not exactly like it but similar. Waves of mobs come in attacking and the Battle Warden just stands at camp to sign you up and after that you just go out and slaughter them where ever they are near camp. The mobs could be busy trying to construct fortifications, set up their own camps, or something to that effect and we must stop them. I just can't see something that's limited to one 8 player party being very useful or feisable. Everyone is right about it currently being way to easy too. It's one reason I never even bother with behest, or battle at all for that matter right now. I reluctantly do my regional leves each day and that's it. That's how badly I detest the current battle situation. Anyway, I want to see it improve and am quite excited about the future. Looking forward to seeing what behest might evolve into.

heres a few ideas ive been bouncing around my LS,

Behests where you got to defend the camp for so long against waves of monsters and bigger versions of behests (or just multiple behests) where there 2-3 full parties working in tandem

not really well thought out but a foundation to build upon perhaps

Behest should spawn the max amount of mobs no matter the size of the group. It's waste of time if only yourself and one or two others wait to kill six mobs.

i'd like to see behest turn more into something like campaign battles lots of hordes an lots of very hard mobs and mini bosses.

1. behest is not fun
2. the sp is not worth it, specially if gotta run to it an back.
3. is not long enough for the party play to be fun

way more waves of mobs, have more then 1 behest every 30mins, or make them work like campaign battles where full groups of people can just go from one city to another doing them.

also remove the possibility of over leveled players to come in and ruin it.

i can only imagine if they fix the dynamics of monsters to be like ffxi, where debuffing and buffing and enfeebling and defeebling is important then even the behest they have now can be a llittle more fun then it is.

also if it is not gonna be equal sp an hour as regular grind or leves then things like this need more of a reason to do them. campaign battles were very fun but yet not packed with players, why? cause regular 6man was worth more an hour, or believe u me they would both be just as packed. so equal sp or something extra that will make people do them just for that.

also maybe add when u sign up to it a way to free port back to crystal, so u can sign up and then go do stuff then port free when it is ready to start.

A lot of posts here and I have not read all of them. However I love the ideas in the OP's and I just wanted to add my support. Good stuff in there :)

+1 for autogroup

Behest seems like a bit of a mess right now, the monsters are too weak to serve a challenge. Players 10+ ranks/levels above other players reduce sp for everyone taking part and without any tools to choose your members your stuck with them wether you like it or not. When certain areas are too popular players lose out on getting into behest. The way i see it behests either need to autogroup and apply level sync/level restrictions. Perhaps also set timers on some behests differently. Or they need to cut the timer out entirely and let players approach a npc and start it themselves adding in a longer cooldown timer instead for each behest area specifically so players spread out to different areas rather than repeating the same one over and over. This would promote exploring the surrounding regions and not just staying in ul'dah especially if you added more unique drops to each area.

They need to throw in more unused enemies as well like the beastmen, the garleans and their machinations.

Either have all behest mobs start out claimed, allow for multiple claims within a party, or get rid of the system that reduces SP from damaging unclaimed mobs entirely. I hate explaining to new people that attacking unclaimed mobs hurts SP for the whole party. Sure, it's the players' fault for not paying attention or just firing off AOEs at random, but it's a bad system that allows it to happen and punishes everyone.

this game needs something that is short and fun to do but u can join it as fast as like scenarios in other games. one click you join and when it's time u pop right in it. it's something that was missing from ffxi and always thought it needed. when people got 20-30mins of time say before an event or whatever is a nice thing to do. not saying behest but something in this game needs to be made like this as a convienience and quick fun option. maybe se devs can do there own ffxiv spin on scenarios with pve, or even ballista would of been to this day full if it was as easy as a click to join. is where they kinda failed, making us create the players to join and having to acually go to these places makes the time not worth doing.

I have only participated in a single Behest after the party size was nerfed.

Is that saying enough?

I want 15 man parties back, or some way to form raid groups for specific events, because the party size now is awful for behests.

Also, everything stated on the first page are great suggestions, especially the auto party. Too many times I've seen people asking for a group and never getting invited (yes with the auto translator). I've even been victim of that once too.

To be honest, I'd even prefer the old campaigns over behests as that would provide a lot more enjoyment.

Basically, the current behest system is rubbish and not enjoyable, especially with the mass amount of people camping the NPC every 30 minutes.. usually the same exact people every single time.

Another way to make behest fun is to chain(link) the behest spots. For example, have the Horizon behest group fight their way all the way to other Aetheryte Gate, and when time's up they can wait at that Aetheryte Gate (as example Nophicas' Gate) for another behest over there. The benefit for this is that each behest will be balanced and not crowed on only one spot.

I know each Aetherye Gate is made for different rank so if developer can create a way to make more behest spot for the chain this could be fun. Of course, mobs could be tougher and final boss could be more interesting....and uglier.

please, lock the rank of players in that behest like only allow R20-25 to that area, and R25-30 to another so the sp will not be messed up.