Japanese to English translation - Discussion Thread

And it looks like SE continues to segregate the EU labeled servers for Duty Finder. I can't say that I agree with their decision since it'll only make it harder for EU users to get groups going.

I just mentioned the Game Watch article in a separate thread, with a link to the Reinheart translation article. I even put a link to this discussion thread.
What could go possibly go wrong? :)

Edit: 15 minutes later and my separate thread is already halfway down page 3. :(
Oh, well, it's the thought that counts, right? :)

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We’re finally able to give players global MMO experience in FFXIV ARR, so once they understand the systems usage, we’re heading into the next step in patch 2.1. This also goes for the item level requirement for end contents. If we placed this from the beginning there was a high possibility that it will just put the Legacy players on the other side and new players on the other. Where players item levels don’t come near each other and never mixing in together.
We don’t want to close the door on them making it where players with low item levels can’t come over, we wanted the players to go in together with the players with high item levels and understand after fighting together that they need to increase their gear levels, making them want to get gears before entering those dungeons, and for that build a community, we wanted to create that type of flow. This is where the previous FFXIV players and new top group players mix in together, creating the top group for the FFXIV ARR. We wanted to resolve this issue earliest as possible.

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If he really wanted to do that, he wouldn't have fucked high level crafting. At least on legacy servers, existing crafters would have been able to more easily craft newer or returning players some good gear and keep them at reasonable prices, but that couldn't happen.

I overall think much of what he said after that is a load of shit. It doesn't even matter if they put Winding coils on the duty finder, most people would treat it just like Titan hard and form server-side parties for it any damn way, but at least people will have the option of just duty-findering it. I don't think they could put it on the duty finder merely because of the checkpoint saving it does. But heaven forbid he say it was because of their own inability :/ But then again crystal tower is said to do the same thing, but it will be on the duty finder, with 24 people...

And I can't believe even he said "Players want us to sell Fantasia Like in F2P games". Does he not know that the current top MMO that has been P2P since launch does Character appearance AND name changes for a fee? I thought he did his research on them for making ARR, but he apparently didn't dig deep enough. You don't have to be a F2P game to provide these extra service, similar to the world transfer service they are going to provide.

The gil earning rate was just fine in phase 3, when Darkmatter was gatherable and guildleves gave a good amount of gil. But the decided to ruin things going into the real game.

From the TGS live part1 translation

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f; ok next healer
f; well for low level we only have conjurer
y; there isn’t much arcanist healers as it’s harder to play
y; but as you level as scholar you’ll be able to heal really good

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It's not that it's that much harder to heal as an arcanist, it's that you classify them as DPS on the dungeon finder! At lower levels the majority just uses the DF to get parties and get stuck because there is an overabundance of DPS.

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f; looks like everyoone is waiting up on fishing
y; I think it’s like this because they can do fishing whenever they want later one
f; ok going to next

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LOL! seriously? I thought it was because fishing is damn near useless, but whatever helps him sleep at night.

Rein is it possible to clear up the part where they spoke about war being weaker than Pld?

http://hfimage.net/images/sb4kzgobv2xc4riw4s6.jpg

http://hfimage.net/images/fusm2ki4983c4y2635u.jpg

Lalafell are so cute :( so when is patch 2.1?
I just read this http://gamerescape.com/2013/09/21/tg...h-translation/ Mid october?!

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Originally Posted by Tronic

Rein is it possible to clear up the part where they spoke about war being weaker than Pld?

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Did they even talk about that?

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Originally Posted by Reika

Snip

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This is a translation but not a perfect one. The way he said it, it could have been "Kind of like F2P games" but Yoshida is a open minded guy so don't judge your impression base solely on this.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Did they even talk about that?

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When Rein does a translation, he doesn't get every information down but the gist of it. Sometimes miss out on some stuff which happens. It was mentioned, dunno if it was discussed.

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Originally Posted by NoctisCaelus

This is a translation but not a perfect one. The way he said it, it could have been "Kind of like F2P games" but Yoshida is a open minded guy so don't judge your impression base solely on this.



When Rein does a translation, he doesn't get every information down but the gist of it. Sometimes miss out on some stuff which happens. It was mentioned, dunno if it was discussed.

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No I think he was just having a closed mind about the deal. Close mindedness runs rampant with them, thats why they cant balance worth a damn. I also didn't see anything about warriors in there, not even a mention. maybe I missed it.

Also, about the not-so-housing system... I'm guess housing will cost well over 5m gil for just a small house. They wan't individual FC members to dig into their pockets for a house, so its going to cost a bunch. You can't even call it a housing system if it is going to be just for FC of a certain rank. It is more like another part of the FC system, and not a system on its own that the individual can take part of. It will be a good way to delete all of Legacy characters gil tho. 50mil for the large one i'm going to guess.

I'll do the live letter translation fixes tomorrow, should have free time at work so please wait up a bit.
Wanna play XIV when I can at night ><

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

I'll do the live letter translation fixes tomorrow, should have free time at work so please wait up a bit.
Wanna play XIV when I can at night ><

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Take your time. I'm happy you're doing this at all. And.. you probably heard that like a thousand times. And this, thank you for translating. <3

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

From the TGS live part1 translation

It's not that it's that much harder to heal as an arcanist, it's that you classify them as DPS on the dungeon finder! At lower levels the majority just uses the DF to get parties and get stuck because there is an overabundance of DPS.

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I think they said they'll eventually create the option to queue as a different "spec" for your class. I think the reasoning for it not being in initially is that they wanted people to queue for what the class/job's primary function is through the DF as to not create imbalances for newer players.

Hi Reinheart, I have a question. From the TGS live part1 translation you translated:

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y; Earlier today, I was told by a player that Warriors are weaker than Paladins
y; They are harder to play
f; It’s more technical
y; You need to bring in a lot of the the additional (skills?) to get it fully out
y; But really, in development team, warrior are really strong, and it’s more stable
y; So right now it looks like Paladins can hold the enmity and tank, however
y; honestly Warriors are really strong.
y; Players haven’t researched enough so I would like players who are up for a challenge to stand up and play.
y; We the development team really recommend Warriors

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I posted this bit in a reddit post and a japanese person answered this:

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I watched the video and your translation is wrong tho.
He said paladins seems stronger than warrior right now but wait until we introduce new level , warrior will be the strongest class in the game. Trust me the warrior will be the strongest so plz don't give up on warrior yet.

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Would you agree with his statement? What is the true gist of the translation?

Where he talks about tank 25:20 in video - Video link: http://gamerescape.com/2013/09/20/tg...h-translation/
Listened to it again, but I don't hear anything about introducing new levels, he says it's already strong right now, players just haven't researched it enough.

Unless I'm deaf or there is a section missing in the video... w

Can anyone else confirm?

EDIT: Listened to that specific section over and over and I still don't see how the other person got "Wait until we introduce new levels", if that's the case he would of said please wait for an update or patch 2.1 for Warrior buff. No where does he mention that, he says Warriors are hard to play, you'll need additionals (most likely meaning additional cross class skills from Puglist and Gladiator) and that the players haven't researched enough, dev team uses Warriors as they are really strong, and they recommend warrior."

Well that's disappointing to say the least. Since the research for the problems warriors are facing has been done already in other MMOs.

Mitigation > extra health and self heals always. Perhaps the development team hasn't done enough research...

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Originally Posted by Kanzer

Well that's disappointing to say the least. Since the research for the problems warriors are facing has been done already in other MMOs.

Mitigation > extra health and self heals always. Perhaps the development team hasn't done enough research...

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When did FFXIV's Warrior become same as Warriors in 'other MMOs'?
I'm a Warrior myself so I'm just curious.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

When did FFXIV's Warrior become same as Warriors in 'other MMOs'?
I'm a Warrior myself so I'm just curious.

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That's not the point. If you read the next line of my post you'll see what I was referring to. The idea of lots of health and self heals ONLY has been tried in other MMOs (namely WoW) and found to be lacking compared to raw mitigation and the ability to block incoming attacks. On paper, it all seems like a good idea, but in practice and in the middle of intense battle it doesn't at all play out like the development team probably perceives it does. Especially when you consider the fact that in order to do their big self heal, warriors have to sacrifice the one thing that's keeping them alive. (The extra healing from Wrath stacks.) Paladins have to make no such sacrifice, and have several defensive cooldowns to boot.

Plain and simple, Warriors ARE lacking compared to Paladins in Titan HM and beyond and they need to be tweaked a bit to make up for it.

Reinheart, I'm researching as hard as I can.

A little Tweak will not change how they are played. They were already tweaked and that increased damage output and self heals. Not Front End mitigation.

That's a big hint right there. I'm going to try to max STR and Crit Rate and see where that takes me. Considering that they've buffed self heal through inner beast as well as added a Crit Rate buff (not a damage taken buff that everyone is asking for) then maybe that's where we should start looking.

If the devs are wrong, they're wrong, but first why not try to do things their way and then come back and say "We tried maximizing Strength and damage dealt and self heals and Crit and it's not working."

My FC's Warrior is capable to tank everything or PLD can so I don't get what the problem here is. Warrior is harder to play and that means it takes more skill, but people seem to like the challenge.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Reinheart, I'm researching as hard as I can.

A little Tweak will not change how they are played. They were already tweaked and that increased damage output and self heals. Not Front End mitigation.

That's a big hint right there. I'm going to try to max STR and Crit Rate and see where that takes me. Considering that they've buffed self heal through inner beast as well as added a Crit Rate buff (not a damage taken buff that everyone is asking for) then maybe that's where we should start looking.

If the devs are wrong, they're wrong, but first why not try to do things their way and then come back and say "We tried maximizing Strength and damage dealt and self heals and Crit and it's not working."

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Not really sure how you're supposed to go about this though, all of your equipment is itemized the exact same as a Paladin's equipment, since it's shared. And the 30 str from attribute bonuses has already been shown to make little difference, if any at all.

So the only way I could see that a warrior can purposely gear for crit is their class specific armor from Mythology tokens, except absolutely none of those pieces adds any crit rating. (Ironically the Paladin armor has three pieces that do.)

Maybe getting Mythology DPS jewelry? Even then, it seems silly and wouldn't make much difference.

Too many contradictions for me to believe they really did the proper research when designing the class.

Though I am very interested to hear your future findings HiirNoivl, I've been following many of your post for information regarding warriors.

I missed the first TGS, so i guess thats why i missed the translation :P. Pretty weak that he just says "L2P" in a sorta polite way. Doesn't excuse the fact that warriors self-heals are weak, the healing buff from defiance is weak, and there is no mitigation. Whether or not your FC does everything with warrior anyway, it is still requires greater healing which paladin is not, which is why people go to the paladin now. Just be lucky to be in a FC that doesn't discriminate like the public or others would lol.

"Show off how much harder you try than the paladin" is what he really said.

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Originally Posted by Kanzer

Not really sure how you're supposed to go about this though, all of your equipment is itemized the exact same as a Paladin's equipment, since it's shared. And the 30 str from attribute bonuses has already been shown to make little difference, if any at all.

So the only way I could see that a warrior can purposely gear for crit is their class specific armor from Mythology tokens, except absolutely none of those pieces adds any crit rating. (Ironically the Paladin armor has three pieces that do.)

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Please look at my Current gear my Body piece currently has 43 Skill Speed for example. I was testing Skill Speed. HQ darksteel melds are my primary means of testing WAR capabilities, because with melds it can fall outside of the typical, boiler plate tanking gear provided at Revenant's Toll.

As for my results: While Skill Speed is important I think that Crit Rate will be more effective on WAR in the long run. I tested Accuracy on WAR as well with a Acc +43 build. (Fortunately I haven't had nearly as many issues with gil as some others. :) )

If you have HQ Darksteel it allows you to experiement with many different builds. The same can be said of Rose Gold Accessories and trying out different accessories using easily obtainable Philo Tokens.

Another reason why I feel that raising Crit rate is important: Currently with my stats I should be maxing out at 10 or 11% Crit rate according to the Dancing Mad Calculator. But after conducting a number of tests on Ifrit and Garuda (the most easily available content, sadly Titan Parties rarely last long enough to test) I'm setting at a low of 17% to 20% crit rate over all.

Now, I'm not into it as much as some other folks might be, as much to go out and dig and look at WHY this is happening. But if a WAR crits 20% on a 10% build then I would hope that, if things scale linearly as they often do, then WAR will crit 40% on a 20% build.

I don't think you should accept "you are doing it wrong" as an answer :/ If you can't do it with the same gear as a paladin, save the sword and shield, something is amiss.

I don't feel it is realistic to expect that two classes that are played in such opposite ways design wise should be wearing the same gear.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Please look at my Current gear my Body piece currently has 43 Skill Speed for example. I was testing Skill Speed. HQ darksteel melds are my primary means of testing WAR capabilities, because with melds it can fall outside of the typical, boiler plate tanking gear provided at Revenant's Toll.

As for my results: While Skill Speed is important I think that Crit Rate will be more effective on WAR in the long run. I tested Accuracy on WAR as well with a Acc +43 build. (Fortunately I haven't had nearly as many issues with gil as some others. :) )

If you have HQ Darksteel it allows you to experiement with many different builds. The same can be said of Rose Gold Accessories and trying out different accessories using easily obtainable Philo Tokens.

Another reason why I feel that raising Crit rate is important: Currently with my stats I should be maxing out at 10 or 11% Crit rate according to the Dancing Mad Calculator. But after conducting a number of tests on Ifrit and Garuda (the most easily available content, sadly Titan Parties rarely last long enough to test) I'm setting at a low of 17% to 20% crit rate over all.

Now, I'm not into it as much as some other folks might be, as much to go out and dig and look at WHY this is happening. But if a WAR crits 20% on a 10% build then I would hope that, if things scale linearly as they often do, then WAR will crit 40% on a 20% build.

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While it's true you can get the crafted gear, and it allows for greater customization, it requires a great deal of time, effort, and money in order to do this. And this just means a Paladin could put in just as much effort, and still be leagues more efficient.

The fact that you need to go through this much effort just to become as efficient as a paladin in darklight/mythology/allagan gear is a problem in itself. I respect your desire and dedication to do this, but it isn't right to be required to.

Yoshi P didn't address gear in his all-too-brief statement but he said you will NEED additional skills to play WAR effectively. So there's some extra effort right there at the start. You have to level 3 classes to play one job.

Having played 1.0, where months of effort yielded no results, I don't feel that this is that big of a deal. And seeing how crazy easy it is to meld great gear in 2.0, I don't feel that the effort I'm putting in to become a "very strong" WAR tank is anything more than minimal.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yoshi P didn't address gear in his all-too-brief statement but he said you will NEED additional skills to play WAR effectively. So there's some extra effort right there at the start. You have to level 3 classes to play one job.

Having played 1.0, where months of effort yielded no results, I don't feel that this is that big of a deal. And seeing as how crazy easy it is to meld great gear in 2.0, I don't feel that the effort I'm putting in to become a "very strong" WAR tank is anything more than minimal.

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I'm fine with needing extra skill, and heck, even better itemization. I'm not fine with having to do all that extra grinding when all your counterpart has to do is throw on some Darklight gear and already be good to go for all the current content. Especially when all your extra effort is just serving to make you only as efficient as they are. (Also let's be clear, we still don't even know if that's the case. Looking forward to your findings.) It's bad design. And like Reika, I wouldn't accept that as an answer.

I have to say, i'm happy that this WAR discussion is going on.
I certainly wish there were more threads going on akin to "How to better use what we have now" instead of "How do WARs suck, PLD or GTFO", that'd give both playerbase and devs a bigger insight on what is really going on here.
However what really aggravates me is that that discussion's spilling over half the goddamn threads. Can't you guys keep it contained to just four threads or so specifically for that? I mean it's a dream that we could keep it in one but, hell, just four would be enough.

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Originally Posted by Kanzer

I'm fine with needing extra skill, and heck, even better itemization. I'm not fine with having to do all that extra grinding when all your counterpart has to do is throw on some Darklight gear and already be good to go for all the current content. Especially when all your extra effort is just serving to make you only as efficient as they are. (Also let's be clear, we still don't even know if that's the case. Looking forward to your findings.) It's bad design. And like Reika, I wouldn't accept that as an answer.

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Having come from 1.0 where it took months of prayer and hours of hamlet and crafting and melding (or 10s of millions of gil) and wishing on a star just to begin your Relic Quest.... I'm not sure how to respond to this. WAR is clearly a different tier of tank than PLD. The quote from Yoshi confirms it. You have beginner tank and then more-difficult-to-play tank.

The difficulty is probably there for a reason. If you want the spoils you're going to have to put in the time. The fact that subpar WAR tanks can't succeed past Titan is likely there by design.

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Originally Posted by Skies

I have to say, i'm happy that this WAR discussion is going on.
I certainly wish there were more threads going on akin to "How to better use what we have now" instead of "How do WARs suck, PLD or GTFO", that'd give both playerbase and devs a bigger insight on what is really going on here.
However what really aggravates me is that that discussion's spilling over half the goddamn threads. Can't you guys keep it contained to just four threads or so specifically for that? I mean it's a dream that we could keep it in one but, hell, just four would be enough.

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We're actually on topic for the thread. So I'm not sure what you mean.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Having come from 1.0 where it took months of prayer and hours of hamlet and crafting and melding (or 10s of millions of gil) and wishing on a star just to begin your Relic Quest.... I'm not sure how to respond to this.

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If that is the system, then that is the system. I'd be fine with that too, but that's not how it is currently. If for whatever reason Warrior's NEED to go through that level of grinding/preparation to do their job as tanks, that makes them the ONLY class in the game required to do so. Which is a big problem. I know you've had to do that all along, so it feels normal for you, but for those who didn't play 1.0, they see it as unfair, which it is. And so they end up just re-rolling to Paladin or quitting altogether. If SE's goal was to make a majority of warriors switch to Paladins, then their current system is working beautifully.

You only feel that way because you see no benefit. If the rewards are good enough, there's no amount of grinding you won't do! Haha. :)

I fail... wrong thread!

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Where he talks about tank 25:20 in video - Video link: http://gamerescape.com/2013/09/20/tg...h-translation/
Listened to it again, but I don't hear anything about introducing new levels, he says it's already strong right now, players just haven't researched it enough.

Unless I'm deaf or there is a section missing in the video... w

Can anyone else confirm?

EDIT: Listened to that specific section over and over and I still don't see how the other person got "Wait until we introduce new levels", if that's the case he would of said please wait for an update or patch 2.1 for Warrior buff. No where does he mention that, he says Warriors are hard to play, you'll need additionals (most likely meaning additional cross class skills from Puglist and Gladiator) and that the players haven't researched enough, dev team uses Warriors as they are really strong, and they recommend warrior."

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OK I checked in on twitter just to see if anyone can confirm on this, and Foxclon said nothing about update to buff Warrior was mentioned during TGS.

Thank you Reinhart for maintaining these translations.

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Originally Posted by Tronic

I posted this bit in a reddit post and a japanese person answered -snip-

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Not to step on anyone's toes, but how reliably Japanese was this person? And even if they are Japanese, how well can they understand Japanese? There are enough people with foreign roots growing up in another countries, not having the full grasp on the language of their parents.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Where he talks about tank 25:20 in video - Video link: http://gamerescape.com/2013/09/20/tg...h-translation/Can anyone else confirm?

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Yes, I hear the same as what you translated. Nothing about new levels. Just saying to trust the dev's judgement that the warrior is strong.

To be honest, as a healer, I saw both good WAR and PLD. WAR tend to be "spiky" more often than PLD though, I assume it's a matter of skill usage and gear, (I don't know much about these two classes), rather than the class being gimped. It's the same as SCH vs WHM and MNK vs DRG, really. People have their opinion on the class based either from their experience or from word of mouth. And once the opinions are set, you have no chances to dispel the prejudices anymore. Even if you happen to prove you can do content x with class y reliably, the reasoning against it amounts to things like "it was a fluke" or "but we always went with class z for x, so we're going with that".

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

OK I checked in on twitter just to see if anyone can confirm on this, and Foxclon said nothing about update to buff Warrior was mentioned during TGS.

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Thanks for clearing it up Rein! I guess we really got the "L2P" from Yoshida.

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Not to step on anyone's toes, but how reliably Japanese was this person?

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I don't know the guy. What I reposted is what he said and all I know about him.

UPDATE: I rechecked the reddit post and he (the japanese guy) updated with this transcription of what he says Yoshida said:

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This is the transcription. (Y=yoship M=Murouchi san)
Y 「今日もねさっきプレイヤーの方に言われたんですけど、戦士、ナイトに比べるとちょっと弱くないですかと、難しいんです戦士」
M「そうですねちょっとテクニカル系なんですね」
Y「アディショナルを沢山持ってこないと最終効果を発揮しないんですけど、実は開発ないでは戦士メチャクチャやっぱり強いんですよ、大安定して行くので今はどうしてもナイトの方が安定していて敵師をホールドしてガッチリ守れそうな印象があるんですけど、戦士実はメチャ強いんです、っでまだまだ使いこなしの研究され尽くして無いので是非ね我こそはと腕に自信があるという方こそ戦士の地位を高めるために是非プレーをして頂きたいなと思います。開発自信を持ってお勧めします戦士。」

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Is this different from what you've heard, Reinheart?

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Originally Posted by Tronic

Thanks for clearing it up Rein! I guess we really got the "L2P" from Yoshida.


I don't know the guy. What I reposted is what he said and all I know about him.

UPDATE: I rechecked the reddit post and he (the japanese guy) updated with this transcription of what he says Yoshida said:



Is this different from what you've heard, Reinheart?

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The text he posted is what YoshiP said (敵師 should be 敵視, anyways...) in the Live but no where in there does he mention about warrior going to be strong after patch/update.

It exactly says what both Soukyuu and I mentioned. Dunno how this person got that info where Warriors getting buff later on to be better than PLD, YoshiP is mentioning about right now, as of 2.0s Warriors. They are really strong and that players need to play around with the job some more as devs use them, and they really recommend it.

BTW - Can you link me to this reddit post? Kind of curious what he's saying.

Hi Reinheart, I will ask my mother to watch the video section regarding warriors and see what she says. Since she is native, I will be able to get you a better description and verification.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

BTW - Can you link me to this reddit post? Kind of curious what he's saying.

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Sure:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...g_as_intended/

His username is Sweet-pink.