Gamespot ARR article. HOW DARE YOU DOUBT OUR YOSHI-P!!

Pretty much every game is a ripoff of another game on how it's played, unless it's a unique puzzle game, but those are never amazingly crazy awesome. FPS games are all pretty much the same. Really the only huge difference in them is the story and setting. MMO's are all pretty much the same. RPG's have been pretty much the same since forever. So as far as anything unique ARR has to offer? How about, it looks great, the job system, great story and we'll see the rest in Beta. A new Idea is very rare these days. And sometimes new does not mean better.

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Originally Posted by fusional

the kind of content ends up being largely irrelevant as long as it's high quality and exists in a large enough quantity to keep players busy..

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2014 is my tenth year anniversary with a certain F2P Flash game... and this is why.

Out of all the arguments here I am amazed that people cannot seem to remember that FFXIV 1.0 was considered too different but had systems that needed fixing.

Now that FFXIV:ARR is underway, its basically the same game but the old problems are fixed, and a vast range of new things have been implemented.

So...

The initial cause of the failing of FFXIV 1.0:
-The game didnt hold enough Final Fantasy Lore
-The game had playability issues, such as UI and server lag

So let me remind everyone that FFXIV:ARR is a "reborn" version of FFXIV. How is it now "stale"?


1. By no means is FFXIV:ARR "a shadow of WoW" in regards to innovation
2. It is a far cry from being the mess it was originally.

Just a recap of things FFXIV:ARR has to offer.

FATE
Armoury System
Job System
Gold Saucer
Grand Companies
Free Companies
Innovative Crafting System
Gathering System
Retainers
Companions (Baby Chocobo, Behemoth, Mini Bomb)
Battle Companion Chocobos
Raising Chocobos
.. Do I really need to keep going?

TLDR
FFXIV:ARR is FFXIV 1.0 "Reborn" so umm was FFXIV 1.0 anything like WoW? That is the real question. (FFXIV:ARR is FFXIV 1.0 .. fixed.)

The most surreal part about this thread is that that entire article was 99% glowing, aside from that one sentence. And still, everyone screams "bias."

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Originally Posted by Aion

which game is that?

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I know there's a console grafix joke in there somewhere. You know what I mean!

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

The initial cause of the failing of FFXIV 1.0:
-The game didnt hold enough Final Fantasy Lore

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I wouldn't say the lack of Final Fantasy lore, but the lack of a cohesive (or finished even) story for that matter. It's taken a lot of discussion over in Anonymoose's thread to actually piece together the puzzle that's still missing pieces from the box in terms of the original story. It wasn't until Yoshi-P took over and introduced the 7th Umbral Era and Grand Company storylines that the game actually seemed to start moving towards some direction.

To get back to your earlier point about the game being "too different", it's funny how reviewers are looking for some big breakthrough in MMO mechanics, yet when FFXIV seemed to discard almost everything that worked in FFXI it got butchered by reviewers. Even if the server structure and UI responsiveness were top notch, I still don't see how anyone but FFXI diehards would have kept playing FFXIV in its original state.

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Originally Posted by fusional

you're still hung up on it all being the same and can't see the forest for the trees.

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I hate repeated phasing like that. If you think I didn't get it, try rewording it.

The celebrity idea for the marketing team stemmed from various celebrities already talking about the game. Blizzard encouraged it and their community to grow and communicate. The reason why "all the games which tout themselves as being 'different' end up with a fraction of that number before fizzling out and fading away completely" is because they aren't different. Really all they do is add one or two minor features and glorify it like the second coming. In the end, you get the same core structure. The same uninspired quest goals, the same mad dash to endgame, the same instanced dungeon runs, the same holy trinity. We get tens of MMO's a year claiming to radically reshape the genre, but they only tackle the unimportant side features leaving the truly stagnated components to rot.

Let's look back at the FPS genre. I mentioned Portal earlier. It's a popular FPS that radically different. Genres don't need to cater to the expected to survive or even thrive, and that's something I feel most MMO developers are afraid of because of the mass amount of cost it takes to make them (even though almost all of them have sputtered into the forgotten void.)

This game has a few things going for it:
1. Better graphics (doesn't seem to sway consumers based on the last few releases.)
2. A story (Won't keep people around long. Story has been done in MMOs before. Once it's done, they're out.)
3. FF Fanservice (could be a big draw for FF fans not crazy about MMOs)
4. The revival. ("It's better now, so it must be good". This might actually be the biggest draw.)

WoW was a one time thing. No one's going to repeat it, or even come close just by rehearsing the same song and dance, no matter how well they do it. They don't flourish, they just live. And I see very little reason why this game, as great as it's looking, will break that trend.

And seriously. Caps help me read. Don't tell me you can't. I see those question marks.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Let's look back at the FPS genre. I mentioned Portal earlier. It's a popular FPS that radically different. Genres don't need to cater to the expected to survive or even thrive, and that's something I feel most MMO developers are afraid of because of the mass amount of cost it takes to make them (even though almost all of them have sputtered into the forgotten void.)

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Problem with this is that Portal is not an FPS per se, it is a puzzle game with first person elements. It would be better to compare a game that has gone a unique approach to an FPS in comparison with games like Halo and Call of Duty. Look at CoD and Halo, what are their biggest difference? Just story, setting, and what your weapons do. I look at MMO's the same way, and I am glad Yoshida is also.

(Now to kind of something else, this part not targeted at you.)
I would actually agree to an extent if Yoshida was trying to convince you that FFXIV was a complete unique experience that redefines the genre. He has already expressed several times that he doesn't believe being too unique is a successful approach to this game and creating a sense of familiarity with proper FF elements will make it a success. I completely agree with him, and he knows how we think.

I am willing to bet Gamespot twisted the story a bit, with how much confidence Yoshida speaks in all his interviews, I am sure he wasn't just sitting there, scratching his head going, "Uhh graphics?". I am sure he was asked this a million times and knew the question was coming up and would be a popular one. I am sure he said "Graphics" because he isn't going out of his way to make you think this is a genre breaker like other failed MMO's have tried to convince you. People will disagree with me, but I love how he approaches this. The only thing he wants to convince you is that this is a great "Final Fantasy" and "MMO" experience, that is it.

If you don't like what is coming because it lacks originality, then that is your opinion and that is fine, but originality doesn't always make a game good.

To myself personally, I 100% welcome a great online Final Fantasy experience with familiar concepts. I guess you can just call me bland and a sucker if you want.

Hey, I thought this article was very good. Sure, he seemed to miss or downplay Yoshi-P's response, but he targeted a lot of gamers who had written off FF14. And paragraph 4 is loaded with stuff MMORPG gamers will take notice of. He didn't finish with some nonsense they would tune out, like "this is teh WoW killer for realz!", but instead with a very believable "hey, you might want to put this back on your radar." 4 stars out of 5.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Out of all the arguments here I am amazed that people cannot seem to remember that FFXIV 1.0 was considered too different but had systems that needed fixing.

Now that FFXIV:ARR is underway, its basically the same game but the old problems are fixed, and a vast range of new things have been implemented.

So...

The initial cause of the failing of FFXIV 1.0:
-The game didnt hold enough Final Fantasy Lore
-The game had playability issues, such as UI and server lag

So let me remind everyone that FFXIV:ARR is a "reborn" version of FFXIV. How is it now "stale"?


1. By no means is FFXIV:ARR "a shadow of WoW" in regards to innovation
2. It is a far cry from being the mess it was originally.

Just a recap of things FFXIV:ARR has to offer.

FATE
Armoury System
Job System
Gold Saucer
Grand Companies
Free Companies
Innovative Crafting System
Gathering System
Retainers
Companions (Baby Chocobo, Behemoth, Mini Bomb)
Battle Companion Chocobos
Raising Chocobos
.. Do I really need to keep going?

TLDR
FFXIV:ARR is FFXIV 1.0 "Reborn" so umm was FFXIV 1.0 anything like WoW? That is the real question. (FFXIV:ARR is FFXIV 1.0 .. fixed.)

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WTH, HOW COULD YOU FORGET TO LIST COMPANY AND PRIVATE HOUSING!?!?

You shall pay for your sins.

(Seriously, i want my private mansion in a luxurious neighborhood.)

What happened to the good old days when I could play a Star Wars MMO because it was a solid MMO set in a Star Wars universe, an Epic Space MMO because it was a solid space MMO set in a galactic setting and a Final Fantasy MMO because it was a solid MMO based on Final Fantasy?

I don't give a damn about the "biggest innovator" in the MMO world. I played FFXI because it was a solid MMO and Final Fantasy based. I will play FFXIV:ARR for the same reason, as long as it's a solid MMO. To hell with needing something new in every MMO.

Seriously, why? What happened to having fun and playing a game because you enjoy it's setting and it's story, so long as the gameplay remained solid?

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Originally Posted by Alerith

What happened to the good old days when I could play a Star Wars MMO because it was a solid MMO set in a Star Wars universe, an Epic Space MMO because it was a solid space MMO set in a galactic setting and a Final Fantasy MMO because it was a solid MMO based on Final Fantasy?

I don't give a damn about the "biggest innovator" in the MMO world. I played FFXI because it was a solid MMO and Final Fantasy based. I will play FFXIV:ARR for the same reason, as long as it's a solid MMO. To hell with needing something new in every MMO.

Seriously, why? What happened to having fun and playing a game because you enjoy it's setting and it's story, so long as the gameplay remained solid?

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Very well put!

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Problem with this is that Portal is not an FPS per se, it is a puzzle game with first person elements.

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I don't know - playing that game you played in First Person, and you Shot stuff while aiming. Sure it wasn't bullets or rocket launchers, and yeah the goal was to further your exploration by opening portals instead of furthering your carnage by blowing things' innards all over the place, but in the end I'd still consider it 100% a FPS. And I think that's just his point: you weren't "shooting to kill" you were "shooting to solve puzzles", and what's probably expected of FPS games since games such as Doom and Duke Nukem is the bloody carnage caused by your sometimes over-the-top arsenal - not puzzle solving. He also gave another (for what I consider) great example of a FPS doing something new in a familiar genre: the Metroid Prime series. Which even despite being closer to the expected FPS-type game than Portal, it was still pretty darn different, and more than likely didn't appeal to the overwhelming amount of FPS-game-type fans; however clearly it appealed to enough to warrant more installments (and, even those additional installments were a great example of a developer taking gameplay/elements that worked and making a "new" game with them).

Not trying to ruffle your feathers; just my 2 cents~

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Originally Posted by Reaujien

I don't know - playing that game you played in First Person, and you Shot stuff while aiming. Sure it wasn't bullets or rocket launchers, and yeah the goal was to further your exploration by opening portals instead of furthering your carnage by blowing things' innards all over the place, but in the end I'd still consider it 100% a FPS. And I think that's just his point: you weren't "shooting to kill" you were "shooting to solve puzzles", and what's probably expected of FPS games since games such as Doom and Duke Nukem is the bloody carnage caused by your sometimes over-the-top arsenal - not puzzle solving. He also gave another (for what I consider) great example of a FPS doing something new in a familiar genre: the Metroid Prime series. Which even despite being closer to the expected FPS-type game than Portal, it was still pretty darn different, and more than likely didn't appeal to the overwhelming amount of FPS-game-type fans; however clearly it appealed to enough to warrant more installments (and, even those additional installments were a great example of a developer taking gameplay/elements that worked and making a "new" game with them).

Not trying to ruffle your feathers; just my 2 cents~

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And it is a fair point, but it really is the foundation and feel like it is an apples and oranges comparison. Metroid Prime is indeed an FPS (And my favorite one at that, along with being one of the greatest games of all time. <3), but it's adventure elements are so well implemented that I would call it a FPA (First Person Adventure), just my take on that. What I am saying is that between Portal and Call of Duty, you can't compare it in a sense like WoW and FFXIV, because really, you are looking for two different things when you compare Portal to Call of Duty.

In Germany there are also not that many articles about FFXIV ARR.. but well at least the most important magazine "Gamestar" wrote a preview to ARR... in the hot topic section.

Gamestar article


for all german readers in here ^ the mood of the article is quiet good.

he's really writing any information in that article... in contrast to some of the english magazines...

WWell if he want to know... Limit Break system is kind of... new?

While it's frustrating to see them be dismissive, keep in mind that this is probably the general outside reaction. If all goes well, it'll be gratifying to see these same voices praise the game when it finally releases as marked improvement over the original -- and a fun game in it's own right.

The epic story MORE than does enough to set FFXIV on its own. Not only the story, but the sense of FF-esque nostalgia it STILL brings to longtime fans. And it's true...aside from the story and the settings, most games (especially MMOs) are pretty much the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Problem with this is that Portal is not an FPS per se, it is a puzzle game with first person elements. It would be better to compare a game that has gone a unique approach to an FPS in comparison with games like Halo and Call of Duty. Look at CoD and Halo, what are their biggest difference? Just story, setting, and what your weapons do. I look at MMO's the same way, and I am glad Yoshida is also.

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Well I can't stand Halo and CoD for exactly that reason, so maybe Metroid Prime would be a better example. It's adventure based with an open world and items that not only give you better firepower, but help you traverse the world more. Different, but within the same main genre because it takes elements from other genres to evolve it.

It doesn't make it not an FPS just because it handles the core elements in a different way. All the basic properties are still there, just expanded and grafted to new elements.

I'm sure many of us, myself included, could enjoy a themed standard MMO in our favor, but if it didn't work for Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, I wouldn't expect a particularly warm welcome. I'm expecting a lot of "yeah yeah we've seen it all before, this is nothing special, why bother?" if we don't get "Wow, they changed so much! It's better now!"

I've read through this thread a fair bit, and I think there's a lot of good discussion in here. That's what I like to see.

FFXIV does have a few unique features that most other games lack.. And the very cornerstone of the game is the Armoury System itself. How many other games let one character have multiple classes at all, let alone giving a character the ability to change classes/jobs out in the field, on the fly, and at a simple whim?

This feature alone is what I believe to be the game's entire foundation; it's the main feature and asset that really makes the game what it is, and I think it's one of the only remnants of 1.0 that the first time managed to get right.

Is it a perfect system? By no means is it perfect at all. It needs work. And the Job system is the same way; we need more iconic Final Fantasy jobs, like XI has, if the game is ever going to live up to it's namesake. But, I think for what it is now, it's a decent system currently in place, and in the future I can see it having massive potential.

FFXIV and FFXI are two of the only MMOs I've ever played, or even read about that let people change classes. Heck, how many games even let a single character have more than one class to level? The only other ones that come to mind is PSU and PSO2.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Well I can't stand Halo and CoD for exactly that reason, so maybe Metroid Prime would be a better example. It's adventure based with an open world and items that not only give you better firepower, but help you traverse the world more. Different, but within the same main genre because it takes elements from other genres to evolve it.

It doesn't make it not an FPS just because it handles the core elements in a different way. All the basic properties are still there, just expanded and grafted to new elements.

I'm sure many of us, myself included, could enjoy a themed standard MMO in our favor, but if it didn't work for Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, I wouldn't expect a particularly warm welcome. I'm expecting a lot of "yeah yeah we've seen it all before, this is nothing special, why bother?" if we don't get "Wow, they changed so much! It's better now!"

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Metroid Prime is a better example. It is one of those rare occasions where taking a unique approach to a genre worked in it's favor (This game was actually what got me into liking FPS's.). Here is one problem with FFXIV (at least how I see it), they attempted to take a unique approach to the MMO genre the first time. While even if they were to properly execute it, it would of gone into niche audience just like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings.

Being unique and executed well unfortunately does not magically make a game a multi-million subscriber MMO. The only reason WoW has the numbers it has is because simply it was at the right place at the right time. With how many MMO's come out today, the count has spread and 10 million+ is an unrealistic number to anyone, not even Blizzard if they made a 2nd MMO. Being unique however I feel makes it a guarantee that you will only gain the niche audience.

Its only opinion, but as Yoshida said and I completely agree with him, is that you bring people in when a sense of familiarity, and then give them a great experience (Which is a Final Fantasy world.). In a MMO sense, I really believe this is a successful approach, you don't have to agree with me.

Since FFXIV was funded by SE themselves, it is very doubtful they will ever go F2P. Games like SW and LotR went free to play because the loaners were not getting their money back as quick as they were expected, and going F2P quickly racks up that cash. As Yoshida said, as long as SE keeps believing FFXIV will still succeed, that is how it will go. I believe it will.

Hmm, after reading the PAR interview, I think gamespot's article is quite peaceful lol.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

What happened to the good old days when I could play a Star Wars MMO because it was a solid MMO set in a Star Wars universe, an Epic Space MMO because it was a solid space MMO set in a galactic setting and a Final Fantasy MMO because it was a solid MMO based on Final Fantasy?

I don't give a damn about the "biggest innovator" in the MMO world. I played FFXI because it was a solid MMO and Final Fantasy based. I will play FFXIV:ARR for the same reason, as long as it's a solid MMO. To hell with needing something new in every MMO.

Seriously, why? What happened to having fun and playing a game because you enjoy it's setting and it's story, so long as the gameplay remained solid?

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I agree with everyone word you said. Nowadays, the setting is what matters most I think. As long as there is enough content to burn through, an MMO should be able to survive and be successful. Before FFXIV 1.0 shuts down, it had a lot of content for newcomers. Adding all the new things ARR will offer, I think it's going to have enough content to hold the new and old players.

Many other games scream "I'm innovative! I swear!!" just to pull in as many people as possible. After a month or 2, everyone realizes how shallow it is and jump ship. SW:TOR could've had a better chance if they kept a steady input of content, but they couldn't keep up.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Being unique and executed well unfortunately does not magically make a game a multi-million subscriber MMO. The only reason WoW has the numbers it has is because simply it was at the right place at the right time. With how many MMO's come out today, the count has spread and 10 million+ is an unrealistic number to anyone, not even Blizzard if they made a 2nd MMO. Being unique however I feel makes it a guarantee that you will only gain the niche audience.

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Very true ^^. I think WoW is currently very successful because of the reputation it made for itself, and for the fact that many people would rather play an MMO with their friends (who already play WoW) so why go for something else.

And for me, the one thing that truly decides if I keep playing a certain MMO is the community. WoW has one of the worst communities out there, which no matter how good the game is, I just can't function properly in that environment. FFXIV has a pretty friendly community, which definitely encourages new players to blend in.