Grass

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Originally Posted by Shougun

http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/thumbnai...per-445626.jpg

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Copypasta'd textures. FAIL

To me, it just a giant leap forward that the flora in XIV is finally casting semi-accurate shadows.

Also, DX9 sucks.

Hmmm maybe they'll keep gridania half-assed and make Coerthas where the true 'grass' is at. Other than that, the grass is there to stay most likely.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Copypasta'd textures. FAIL

To me, it just a giant leap forward that the flora in XIV is finally casting semi-accurate shadows.

Also, DX9 sucks.

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Lol!

You only even need to have 3d grass about half the distance out too, since the grass colors could fade into ground texture so easily (in that photo).

I agree there are some large leaps forward, I'm hoping the shadows edges get softened (they are pretty much exactly like the object in terms of shadow but unfortunately the objects like tree branches are pixely so the shadow of that is also pixely - but again its amazing how precise to object the shadows are.. literally the exact same lol).

looking at all that grass... I want /layongrass emote now! - and allow first person view while at it... so we can view the clouds... but going to grass topic... the add-on's YoshiP talked about mentioned something like Skyrim you can mod the grass and stuff and didn't he say he wanted to allow that kind of mods also? If yes... then we might actually see something crazy. But wish I can see SE's Ultra graphic settings make the grass look much better even without any user mods.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

looking at all that grass... I want /layongrass emote now! - and allow first person view while at it... so we can view the clouds... but going to grass topic... the add-on's YoshiP talked about mentioned something like Skyrim you can mod the grass and stuff and didn't he say he wanted to allow that kind of mods also? If yes... then we might actually see something crazy. But wish I can see SE's Ultra graphic settings make the grass look much better even without any user mods.

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Holy crap? I dont recall that but did he really say maybe you can mod graphics?

IF yes I agree something crazy lol, that would be awesome. I would be very surprised.. but awesome.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Holy crap? I dont recall that but did he really say maybe you can mod graphics?

IF yes I agree something crazy lol, that would be awesome. I would be very surprised.. but awesome.

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I could just be dreaming... but I thought I read that kind of stuff somewhere...

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

I could just be dreaming... but I thought I read that kind of stuff somewhere...

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What a pretty dream.. lol

http://gamersblock.net/gamefluid/wp-...44Gridania.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RPGpNo0r_u...oncept+Art.PNG

What I see they need is a shorter model that can be in larger groups that flow (if you see ARR footage none of it is in a flowing unit they are all tight singularly packed units), while their taller models they already have work as dotting they would work better when put into the unit of the shorter grass (imo) - then both models need higher resolution so they can blend in (the jaggdy edges - though of course these are all medium to high end machine options).

Uldah already has short grass (in 2.0 screenshots) but it isnt placed in large flowing groups like in the concept art or like you would expect in general. To be fair we've only seen a tiny tiny tiny fraction of 2.0 thanalan and they could have scenes just like their concept art with flowing grass, but the grass we can see in thanalan 2.0 is short its just not in a flowing mesh, each grass belongs to itself (if that makes any sense lol).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RPGpNo0r_u...oncept+Art.PNG

To make this concept art in game, packs of other vegetation would help a lot, along with very short grass (very short). I havent seen this screen in game so, I was just making a comment - right now I dont see or know anything wrong with this image. You can actually see the flower plant on the left in ARR already, its actually not that bad:

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joy...1/ffreborn.jpg

On the orange moss bush on the right in the concept art could be the same in the above photo.

Can't find who I was quoting, sorry!

Actually, sorry to say it but...

An Alpha stage is usually a graphics/stress test for an MMO. Its the perfect opportunity to test these sort of things, this is a standard in MMO development

Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[138] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[139] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[138] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[139] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[137] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release.[138]"

Please tell me you've seen some videos of the Alpha so far? It fits this description.

For FFXIV:ARR they requested feedback not only on gameplay but also; Graphics, Sound, Stress-Tests.

HOWEVER, every developer is different, some may only want to focus on testing server loads, some may wish to have an Alpha that is pretty much border-line BETA standard as was the illusion for ARR's Alpha.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

snip

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I'm not sure what your point is. This is neither the alpha or beta forums (all our threads on game balance are also just bored speculation threads because beta has been promised to have lots of changes) - we havent seen beta yet and I've already said that.

I though I made that clear in the OP ("if its changed in beta or Yoshida said it will happen, I wont bring it up"). Also I've seen every piece of information on ARR, every piece.

Oh I found a good video for grass talk, imo.

http://youtu.be/7rduwq-Of9Y?t=23s

Set it to high (and fullscreen), when he is going across the bridge pay attention to the ground below the bridge - it "almost" has that cohesive flow that says it was meant to be there (rather then looking like little packs of an object, I'm not a pro but I have terrained before and there is a clear difference in cohesion vs its obvious that each object is by itself). An aside: I dream of SE releasing their world editor >.> lol (or at least invite people to guest play with it at their offices XD).


Then you wait till he is running through the thick of the forest with the large purple.. thingy in the background. The Sylph village - the grass has lost its cohesion and the quality is quite apparent (bad).

If they could add an option to bump up the existing quality and density with preferably a smaller real grass - I'd say your almost at FPS quality and that would be awesome to say (since FPS usually have amazing graphics - and they focus a lot of their money into that).

If you keep watching there is a darker forest around ~3 with a short grass type I've been talking about. But then again its not placed in a cohesive unit its all separated (and again the quality makes a speckled effect).

They are getting closer, and they are leaps bounds and light years better then 1.0 :P

I'm sure people are going to say it, and honestly I hope they do, ARR looks great - I agree, but for myself the element holding it back is the ground cover. And while I understand its GPU intensive, many of us have GPUs that spanked 1.0, and now that 2.0 is --easier-- to run, there is no reason for them not to give us rofl lol melt your core settings.

(Which dont need to be released on release, they can delay them to the graphical milestone (and should if it will delay their release of the game) - I just want to know they didnt give up early and settle for less when so many of us have so much more computer resources to offer to the program).

And again before someone says it, I will be trying the beta before commenting on the beta - and grass wont be my first priority to comment on. I'll probably wait a phase or 2 before I make the post - if I feel like I need to. They might have fixed it. That would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

many of us have GPUs that spanked 1.0, and now that 2.0 is --easier-- to run, there is no reason for them not to give us rofl lol melt your core settings.

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I hope to have good scaling with GTX Titans in SLI - bring it on SE....

Ok, that's a pipe dream. Beta plz.

Improving grass quality is last on the list of things to do, tree quality is currently #1. Since harvesting was removed botanists won't be looking at grass anymore.

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Originally Posted by KaiTBF

Improving grass quality is last on the list of things to do, tree quality is currently #1. Since harvesting was removed botanists won't be looking at grass anymore.

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:) Pleased to have your suggestion! Do you have any example photos for fun? (Until beta I consider every thread for fun :P - and the only reason why the meme thread has lived so long lol)

I like the tree shapes in ARR but I feel the texture resolution isnt very high (at a distance it isnt very noticeable they do a good job hiding that, its just up close). I'm hoping for an optional high res texture pack at any point, maybe around when they add directx 10/11.

I'd love to see tessolation added then actually, there are some concept art with the trees being very 3d but its impractical for everyones PC

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RPGpNo0r_u...oncept+Art.PNG

In ARR they do the bottoms 3d but they cut the mid trunk to tops from being so wild, at least I think these are the same trees :P

http://www.miingno.ch/wp-content/upl...46-720x220.jpg

http://zantetsuken.net/wp-content/up...nia-banner.jpg

I never played a game and was like this grass looks good. I just don't care.

Oh, this grass?

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...W7xbrkL_W4.jpg

Yeah, something like this DOES suck. However, I am not usually trying to photograph flowers in-game. I think even though I noticed this in 1.0, it didn't annoy me. It was more of an "ah, that's how they made grass look so cool" kind of thing not a "Man, that grass doesn't look real" kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by Uriahnool

Oh, this grass?

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...W7xbrkL_W4.jpg

Yeah, something like this DOES suck. However, I am not usually trying to photograph flowers in-game. I think even though I noticed this in 1.0, it didn't annoy me. It was more of an "ah, that's how they made grass look so cool" kind of thing not a "Man, that grass doesn't look real" kind of thing.

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Yeah.. that.. thing... But I never thought it looked cool in 1.0 - it was literally the worst grass and bushes I've ever seen in recent time (the "grass" in Thanalan was the worst to look at). Minecraft was having better grass.

Thankfully ARR's is much much better then 1.0s, their bushes specially.

The pixel effect does annoy me though - and I know they could do better.

OMG, grass again.......

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Originally Posted by KaiTBF

Improving grass quality is last on the list of things to do, tree quality is currently #1. Since harvesting was removed botanists won't be looking at grass anymore.

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Who said harvesting was removed?? :0 Nuuuuuu, I didn't get those achievements!!!! *Dies*

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Originally Posted by Punainen

OMG, grass again.......

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Please post more constructively then three words. Uriah's post is great example of I dont care but I'm not going to insult you either (whom I +1'd).

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I hope to have good scaling with GTX Titans in SLI - bring it on SE....

Ok, that's a pipe dream. Beta plz.

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That's if you can get one, you're better off waiting for the 700 series, and something tells me these Titan models will be real powerhogs...

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Please post more constructively then three words. Uriah's post is great example of I dont care but I'm not going to insult you either (whom I +1'd).

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Okay, my constructive reply is... You already made a thread about this. You point was NOT being misunderstood, just no one freaking cares that much about what the GRASS looks like, and you want them to have to pile in all kinda of new game mechanics just for a feature that no one but you even cares about. This topic was beat to death the last time you brought it up, so I don't know why you're bringing it up again. Happy now?

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Okay, my constructive reply is... You already made a thread about this. You point was NOT being misunderstood, just no one freaking cares that much about what the GRASS looks like, and you want them to have to pile in all kinda of new game mechanics just for a feature that no one but you even cares about. This topic was beat to death the last time you brought it up, so I don't know why you're bringing it up again. Happy now?

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I find it sad that you have to join to mock a thread, so yes at least now you came up with something to say.

To the point of your post though I think you are misunderstood. I never said "no one gets me", and people do care about what the grass looks like - I just happened to be the fore front of that lol.

And while the issue is still present the issue will be beat to death, and I'll leave it at that. I dont care if its been brought up before, and I dont care if it gets brought up a hundred more times.

Can't tell if trolling or serious.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Can't tell if trolling or serious.

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For what? And congrats on hitting 1,000 after you reply lol

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Can't tell if trolling or serious.

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Sadly he's totally serious.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Sadly he's totally serious.

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I find nothing sad about being interested in the best aesthetic and immersive value possible- only sad that people who dont care about an issue decide to mock and insult those who find issue of it.

Nothing I suggest here will hurt your game if not make it better.

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

It's a video game. Who the hell really cares that much about what the grass looks like grass. I can honestly say i have never heard anyone ever talk about the way grass looks in a game. Ever. Seriously, this is such a waste of forum space.

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Considering a major part of a video game is the graphics, I think if people want to discuss the games grass or any other graphical feature on these forums, they have a right to.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I find it sad that you have to join to mock a thread, so yes at least now you came up with something to say.

To the point of your post though I think you are misunderstood. I never said "no one gets me", and people do care about what the grass looks like - I just happened to be the fore front of that lol.

And while the issue is still present the issue will be beat to death, and I'll leave it at that. I dont care if its been brought up before, and I dont care if it gets brought up a hundred more times.

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This horse was beat to death. Now it's a zombie, and you're beating it to death all over again.

I agree, I mean just look at the grass in this scene which was made by SE! It looks nothing like the grass that is in ARR!

Look at the DETAIL! :P
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/Kc...HaJ9ueUjn_HGo4

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Graphics are a step backwards from 1.0 but no matter how many times i bring it up people keep saying its not an issue...

ps3 limitations*

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This is an non-issue because of how the game was developed. It started on PC. PS3 is literally just a scaled down version of PC version. Lower LoD, Lower draw distance, less objects visible at once, less players visible at once. and yes, Less grass drawn at once.

PS3 client is completely separate from the PC. So the PC version you can crank the graphics up as high as you want and see all the visual glory! This game is NOT like FFXI and doesn't suffer from the same limitations it had with the PS2.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

This horse was beat to death. Now it's a zombie, and you're beating it to death all over again.

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This statement has no purpose please stop posting, if something is an issue then you talk about it - no matter the number of times.

"Oh I guess we talked about women's rights, now you girls better stop beating the dead horse - doesn't matter you didn't get what you wanted" no that's bullcrap. You keep at it.

Furthermore Yoshida has never addressed this, so the horse is not even dead as Yoshida hasn't closed the door on high end options.

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

I agree, I mean just look at the grass in this scene which was made by SE! It looks nothing like the grass that is in ARR!

Look at the DETAIL! :P
---see below image---

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That scene cap is amazingly beautiful. Just.. eyegasms everywhere.. lol

Edit: get the image tag again - it got cut off for some reason. That was a really great photo

Here is the trailer of ARR on crack graphics basically - http://youtu.be/yhaHhE8R8GY?t=6m11s

Linkurrra's awesome photo was at a point in there.

Edit2: I just screencapped one like Linkurrra's http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4381/test2md.png

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Originally Posted by Shougun

This statement has no purpose please stop posting, if something is an issue then you talk about it - no matter the number of times.

"Oh I guess we talked about women's rights, now you girls better stop beating the dead horse - doesn't matter you didn't get what you wanted" no that's bullcrap. You keep at it.

Furthermore Yoshida has never addressed this, so the horse is not even dead as Yoshida hasn't closed the door on high end options.



That scene cap is amazingly beautiful. Just.. eyegasms everywhere.. lol

Edit: get the image tag again - it got cut off for some reason. That was a really great photo

Here is the trailer of ARR on crack graphics basically - http://youtu.be/yhaHhE8R8GY?t=6m11s

Linkura's awesome photo was at a point in there

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No, because there's a rule against making duplicate posts. You already have a thread about this, so stop making new ones. Just dig out the old one if you wanna talk about this crap again.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

No, because there's a rule against making duplicate posts. You already have a thread about this, so stop making new ones. Just dig out the old one if you wanna talk about this crap again.

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There is also talk about necro posting - so stop being such a grouch and go away. You have no real care on the topic and rather just want to be a nuisance. There are other threads you can attend to you may actually have an opinion for.

Linkurrra's image from the extended end of the world trailer:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4381/test2md.png

Great example of the grass- just as I was trying to say in op and throughout, the flow is excellent. Obviously the detail is pretty hard to get on most cpu/gpus but you can definitely try to get closer to it for those higher ends by just increasing the detail, density, and perhaps introduce one more variety - the short grass to go onto grass ground texture.

I'm sorry but I don't feel the grass is a deal breaker for me. I don't understand why there is the need for another grass thread. Personally, I dont want them to delay the game any longer than it already has been just for the sake of the petty complaint that the "Grass" needs to look better.

For the sake of those who cannot get over the grass, I do hope Yoshi-P at least acknowledges the complaint. Either with a "GTFO, grass is fine" or a "I understand there is a growing concern about the detail on the grass. We do not wish to delay the production of the game for this feature but we are planning on releasing a patch some time after launch to increase the level of detail on this feature."

Either way I honestly hope the Devs are concerning themselves with real development issues instead of wasting time on "grass".

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

I'm sorry but I don't feel the grass is a deal breaker for me. I don't understand why there is the need for another grass thread. Personally, I dont want them to delay the game any longer than it already has been just for the sake of the petty complaint that the "Grass" needs to look better.

For the sake of those who cannot get over the grass, I do hope Yoshi-P at least acknowledges the complaint. Either with a "GTFO, grass is fine" or a "I understand there is a growing concern about the detail on the grass. We do not wish to delay the production of the game for this feature but we are planning on releasing a patch some time after launch to increase the level of detail on this feature."

Either way I honestly hope the Devs are concerning themselves with real development issues instead of wasting time on "grass".

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Which if you read my posts is exactly what I said.

I have consistently repeated I have no desire to delay the game. And that the graphical milestone that is already planned in the future would be a great time to do it.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

There is also talk about necro posting - so stop being such a grouch and go away. You have no real care on the topic and rather just want to be a nuisance. There are other threads you can attend to you may actually have an opinion for.

Linkurrra's image from the extended end of the world trailer:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4381/test2md.png

Great example of the grass- just as I was trying to say in op and throughout, the flow is excellent. Obviously the detail is pretty hard to get on most cpu/gpus but you can definitely try to get closer to it for those higher ends by just increasing the detail, density, and perhaps introduce one more variety - the short grass to go onto grass ground texture.

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Don't go telling me I don't have an opinion. I gave you my opinion. It was that neither I nor anyone else cares about the look of the grass enough to want the devs to waste time on it.

One other pic. I seriously would like to see good grass sway when a character walks through it. Like in GW2 as a character walks through the grass it sways to the side to give the feeling that the character has a presence and volume on the screen. It's a nice touch!

Secondly, in this scene you can see grass pieces flick up as the chocobo's gallop away. Now I know this WAS in 1.0, I would just like to see it a tad more detailed and bigger! They were so small and almost unnoticeable. Splashes and ripples in water would be nice too, but that's a whole other necro thread ;) lol

You have valid points Shougun, I'm being a little ridiculous with comparing in-game screenshots to CG scenes that take hours to render a 10 second scene! lol
But I figured showing Square Enix's work to the game was more Apples to Apples and less Apples to Oranges by comparing to other games! :D

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eH...yMWETh12JSJvw0

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

One other pic. I seriously would like to see good grass sway when a character walks through it. Like in GW2 as a character walks through the grass it sways to the side to give the feeling that the character has a presence and volume on the screen. It's a nice touch!

Secondly, in this scene you can see grass pieces flick up as the chocobo's gallop away. Now I know this WAS in 1.0, I would just like to see it a tad more detailed and bigger! They were so small and almost unnoticeable. Splashes and ripples in water would be nice too, but that's a whole other necro thread ;) lol

You have valid points Shougun, I'm being a little ridiculous with comparing in-game screenshots to CG scenes that take hours to render a 10 second scene! lol
But I figured showing Square Enix's work to the game was more Apples to Apples and less Apples to Oranges by comparing to other games! :D

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/fF...Ro-Y72SYOqDNQ4

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Ah no no man I think your image was perfect - it shows the full on vision SE approves on. If computers were crazy that it would look like that.

And I appreciate that because as we are now people who ran 1.0 fine (many of us) will be running 2.0 with much resource to spare, so I'm hoping SE considers to use that.. you know ? :P lol

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Don't go telling me I don't have an opinion. I gave you my opinion. It was that neither I nor anyone else cares about the look of the grass enough to want the devs to waste time on it.

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Except you are wrong. People do care - concern for yourself and dont be dictator of -other- peoples opinions.

TBH i like the grass the way it is. I think the top two pics in your OP look better than the sterilized pics of grass in bottom two. Not sure how many wild fields and lush forests you see but there are many different types of flora and fauna and not just your standard Bahiagrass. What I think will make more of a difference with the athetics of the screenshots (you are comparing alpha pictures to a finished product) will be the inclusion of better lighting and the finalization of the animations (like the transitional animations) you know, the things they have already said they are going to implement.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Ah no no man I think your image was perfect - it shows the full on vision SE approves on. If computers were crazy that it would look like that.

And I appreciate that because as we are now people who ran 1.0 fine (many of us) will be running 2.0 with much resource to spare, so I'm hoping SE considers to use that.. you know ? :P lol



Except you are wrong. People do care - concern for yourself and dont be dictator of -other- peoples opinions.

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I could say the same for you. Don't go telling other people they care. You're a total hypocrite to say such a thing in the first place consider JUST before this, you were trying to dictate MY opinion.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

TBH i like the grass the way it is. I think the top two pics in your OP look better than the sterilized pics of grass in bottom two. Not sure how many wild fields and lush forests you see but there are many different types of flora and fauna and not just your standard Bahiagrass. What I think will make more of a difference with the athetics of the screenshots (you are comparing alpha pictures to a finished product) will be the inclusion of better lighting and the finalization of the animations (like the transitional animations) you know, the things they have already said they are going to implement.

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Archeage isnt a finished product (well not yet, it is almost), but I didnt compare them as in "archeage looks way better"

It was "look at this grass, see how it blends, how unjagged it is?, this is what I'd like to see in a high end setting for ARR". Even the grass in Archeage isnt the best.

I dont want ARR to copy Archeage's looks I just wanted to example some grass, it could have been any video game that was just the one I thought of first.