Dawn Drops = 1 gil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Did they change the sell price of any of the other stackable items? (Dawn Drops where the best, but there are some other items that are ~meh~ trade ups)

Edit: Above poster said everything is 1 gil now. so.. LULZ they fixed it finally. Only took a week.

---

nope, it only took a bit over a year, this has been exploited foro far longer than atomos event, atomos just made it even easier for casual players too :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beryuyu

what was the conversion for the dawn drops btw?
100seals for what 12x dawn drops? 12x80gil(960gil?)?

---

99 crystals / 4 = number of conversions * 1000 (seal per conversion) = 24,750
24,750 seals / 15 cost per potion (10 per buy) = potion conversions * 10 = 16,500 potions
16,500 potions * 125 gil = 2,062,500

So 2 mil per crystal stack.

Some prices people were selling crystals for on the AH
Price____Cost*_______End Profit
14000 1,386,000.00 676,500.00
14500 1,435,500.00 627,000.00
15000 1,485,000.00 577,500.00
15500 1,534,500.00 528,000.00
16000 1,584,000.00 478,500.00
16500 1,633,500.00 429,000.00
17000 1,683,000.00 379,500.00
* total stack cost
Edit: this has crappy format abilities -_-, it looked good in the edit box, horrible in post. Used _ as a ghetto space holder lol.

So you never even have to go see atomos. Its literally making money in town doing nothing.

(Also the people in town doing nothing are paying the people outside of town doing nothing, because you pretty much just watch atomos die - its really easy). So SE made a cycle of do nothing make gil.

before it was;

Blood Drops
10 seals per 20 units. Unit sell of 44. Total gil per pack = 880, which make 88 gil per seal.

Dawn Drops
15 seals per 10 units. Unit sell of 125. Total gil per pack = 1250, which make 83.33 gil per seal.

Bronze Arrow
25 seals per 999 units. Unit sell of 1. Total gil per pack = 999, which make 39.96 gil per seal.

Dried Prune
20 seals per 10 units. Unit sell of 66. Total gil per pack = 660, which make 33 gil per seal.

Ginger Cookie
30 seals per 10 units. Unit sell of 75. Total gil per pack = 750, which make 25 gil per seal.

With the revisions to those 5 items the gill per seals for each is
Blood Drops = 2gil/seal
Dawn Drops = 0.67 gil/seal
Bronze Arrow = 19.98 gil/seal
Dried Prune = 0.5 gil per seal
Ginger Cookie = 0.33 gil per seal

As it stands now, the rate of gil per seal has gone from a max of 88 to a max of 24, so SE has effectively quatered the remaining potential profits in addition to changing the spawn and drop rate of Atomos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

So you never even have to go see atomos. Its literally making money in town doing nothing.

---

Its not exactly doing nothing. It requires hours of sitting at your computer pressing buttons to buy the GC items one at a time. If you were to fully analyse the cost/benefit ration you would have to consider the time spent/number of key strokes to redeem each item, the number of trips to a NPC and the time spent selling items as factors to most profitable. The real key is not so much gil per seal, but gil per seal over time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magnesium02

Its not exactly doing nothing. It requires hours of sitting at your computer pressing buttons to buy the GC items one at a time. If you were to fully analyse the cost/benefit ration you would have to consider the time spent/number of key strokes to redeem each item, the number of trips to a NPC and the time spent selling items as factors to most profitable. The real key is not so much gil per seal, but gil per seal over time.

---

You got insane people that will do this and people with bots lol. And the people doing nothing watching atomos die then selling the stack for a mil, so the people in town can sit and do nothing - its a pretty silly cycle that SE should have shat on from day one of atomos.

The money is already in the economy. Too little, too late.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingolf

The money is already in the economy. Too little, too late.

---

Exactly what I was thinking all day today after hearing the news

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingolf

The money is already in the economy. Too little, too late.

---

SE REALLY needs to find their balls for these things and stop / reverse these kind of issues - not "its our fault so please don't abuse it until we fix it a week later".

Not removing the abuse is worse then taking away the profits made from the abuse - unless "everyone" took part in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

SE REALLY needs to find their balls for these things and stop / reverse these kind of issues - not "its our fault so please don't abuse it until we fix it a week later".

Not removing the abuse is worse then taking away the profits made from the abuse - unless "everyone" took part in it.

---

Yup. I hate to bring up GW2 again, but a similar thing was found in the game recently. An exploit was... exploited and people made tons and tons of money. Instead of just fixing it and asking for cooperation, they temp banned the people who did the most, and deleted all of the money and or items they had gotten through this exploit. They explained that exploiting the system is not acceptable and if it happened again the ban would be permanent.

SE needs to do a similar thing, stop pandering to people who exploit shit like this, and remove anything gained from it.

Whilst some will complain, it'd be for the greater good.

Exploits are a companies fault generally, but taking advantage of them should have a punishment, or the economy goes to shit again. Look at Salvage bans and the rage that caused. Use common sense people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Now they need to fix the rest of it.

This proves what was happening wasn't not intended (thusly an exploit).

---

Oh FFS...

It is not an exploit. SE has already said themselves that they expected people would figure it out and sell stuff off. They just didn't anticipate how much people would be doing it and, hence, how much money it would be generating. They said they'd been monitoring it before they decided to take action.

Thus they knew it was happening. They didn't come out and say "Hey guys, that's an exploit. Please don't do it", and they announced that they'd merely be adjusting the rates to put a cap on it.

To repeat, for those who maybe need to read it twice: SE was aware it would happen. SE was monitoring the amount of gil generated from it. SE was not anticipating the degree to which people would do it (MMO devs - all of them - seem to repeatedly underestimate the tenacity and creativity of players...). SE decided it needed to be adjusted... so that's what they did.. Adjusted it.

That some greedy individuals decided to abuse the economy by driving the prices up of everything is an entirely different issue. People have been selling things for insane prices going all the way back. Months ago, I tried getting back into the game by playing a new class, and couldn't afford anything on the MW, even the cheapest "dated" low level items were going for 100s of thousands of gil. This was well before anyone even knew there would be an Atomos, much less that this event would take place. Funny thing is, when I posted about the prices being ridiculously high back then, no one even seemed surprised, much less outraged. Now all of a sudden it's some big deal.

So please, get off the whole "zomg exploit!" thing already. It's not an exploit. SE has indicated as much. They are the ones to make that determination - not you. And no, repeating "exploit!" and "cheat!" over and over again will not change that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Herp de dur. Yoshida specifically said it wasn't intended and they're changing it because they dont want it to continue. When playing a game, if its not what the dev intended and they say they don't like it - its an exploit.

---

What you're doing now is called cherry-picking. Selectively choosing only the details that suit your argument, while ignoring anything that doesn't.

In this case, the parts you're ignoring completely destroys your argument.

Again: SE knew people were doing it and were monitoring it, per their own say so. They adjusted it because it was showing to be more profitable than they had intended or anticipated. Thus they adjusted it to make it less so. That they were monitoring it, yet didn't say anything until the moment they decided to adjust it should make it clear enough to you that they obviously had no issue with the idea itself...

Have you seen SE call it an exploit? No. Have you seen them referring to it as cheating? No. That should tell you all you need to know.

One more time, and read this slowly: No One Was Exploiting. Keep reading that 'til it sinks in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angelas

Exactly, people throwing that word exploit around and dont even really understand what it means.. it was an oversight from the development team NOT an exploit

---

Indeed.. An awful lot of people seem to think an exploit is anything they don't like. You're doing "x" and I don't like "x". You're exploiting!

People continued calling PL an exploit even after Yoshi-P stated he had no problem with it.

If anything, it's a great demonstration of how some people are so determined to cling to their own personal views, that they'll ignore contrary info even from an official source.

I love how people are now playing it off as saying "Oh, it's an exploit. SE just won't call it one". -eyeroll-

You what SE does when they think they found an exploit?

They do one of these:

Regarding a Skill Point Gain Issue

(I know it's super old, but it was the first example that came in my mind and was easy to look it up)

That's clearly, "We didn't plan for this, we didn't want you to do this, here is your warning, stop it now."

In XI, a similar thing is pinning a mob so that you can solo it while running around a map and, due to poor pathing and poor AI, they can't get close to you to attack, but with a ranged attack job you can solo the mob from far away without risking damage. But if a GM catches you doing this, they are going to make you stop.

Those are exploits. Clear-cut cases of "These are oversights that are screwing up the intended gameplay." Furthermore it wasn't the NPC price of Dawn drops and GC equipment that were the 'exploit.' Those have remained static and weren't anything new until yesterday. What changed things was the massive flood of GC seals. Atomos was too easy and the planned rewards were too great. Players were getting seals at a ridiculously high rate, which led to an inflation of seals. It is irrelevant what players choose to spend those seals on. If you got all your weapons, all your armor, all your promotions, what else would you do with these seals before this update came in? Sit on them forever at cap, and prevent yourself from being able to accrue more? I can't imagine anyone complaining about people selling their seals like this prior to this event.

All the event did was rapidly accelerate the pace at which people got all their other GC stuff taken care of, and then they turned to moving towards converting their seals to gil once they got all their stuff taken care of. I would not be surprised if the price of dawn drops and other GC stuff went back to their original NPC resale price, because prior to this event, that in and of itself was never the issue. It's the waterfall of seals people have been getting.

Getting too much gil from an event the devs expected players to do isn't an exploit. As someone else said, it's like saying grinding leves before they reduced the gil output from them was an exploit.

Now, if the crystal turn-in NPC was glitched and gave you the 4 crystal reward amount of seals if you chose the cluster turn-in without having a cluster (therefore trading in nothing for 1,000 seals), and you intentionally chose that option over and over to max your seals out repeatedly, that would be an exploit. Both action and result in this case were unanticipated and undesired by the game devs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenor

That's cool. If they want to spend days doing that let them. There's far faster ways to make a million. It's all about balance.

---

everybody needs a million

http://i.imgur.com/XIjFK.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Now they need to fix the rest of it.

This proves what was happening wasn't not intended (thusly an exploit).

---

Not exactly, considering they hot fixed the issue once but didn't drop the gil prices til the second time. (Lowered drop rates), means they didn't mind it til it got out of hand and people kept doing it. Thus becoming an exploit, though you would think if it was unintentional at first they would have hot fixed it a hell of a lot sooner considering some people were making 10+ million a day.

Hi Potions of VIT give the best seal to gil ratio now if you were stuck with piles of crystals. BTW, crystals are now worth about 4,800 gil each when traded in for VIT potions > gil. Thank Carbunkle Plushy from Balmung for the math on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Hi Potions of VIT give the best seal to gil ratio now if you were stuck with piles of crystals. BTW, crystals are now worth about 4,800 gil each when traded in for VIT potions > gil.

---

That's still pretty horrible Gil though. Could easily make better cash farming something else. Huge hit compared to the previous $20,800 per Crystal Gil from a Dawn Drop. Probably best to sell to the wards, and let rich people who want manuals buy them. Then go about what you used to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezlar

That's still pretty horrible Gil though. Could easily make better cash farming something else. Huge hit compared to the previous $20,800 per Crystal Gil from a Dawn Drop. Probably best to sell to the wards, and let rich people who want manuals buy them. Then go about what you used to.

---

If your stuck with a ton of crystals from the event, what else do you do with them?

I totally agree, I've moved on. I was just trying to help those that were stuck holding the bag.

The new way you should all be making money now, is making materias to sell to these people with WAY too much disposable income. Either way, the majority of this questionably gained gil will poof at the start of 2.0. The smartest people will just hold onto all the gil they can until the level cap is raised again a year from now anyhow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Not exactly, considering they hot fixed the issue once but didn't drop the gil prices til the second time. (Lowered drop rates), means they didn't mind it til it got out of hand and people kept doing it. Thus becoming an exploit, though you would think if it was unintentional at first they would have hot fixed it a hell of a lot sooner considering some people were making 10+ million a day.

---

It may have not originated as an exploit but because everyone focused on it - and because it became the source of the most worthless gil experience - it turned into an exploit. You dont stomp on a items gil price to 1 gil if it was just a little boo boo.

They did mind it - they thought the first hotfix would have "fixed" it. Obviously it didn't, so they drop kicked the money makers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vogue

Why is it so wrong to be able to make some gil by trading in seals? you still earn the seals one way or another...

The only problem with this event was the amount of seals you could get, if they had reduced the amount of crystals you get per run, then you all would be happier. But if you think hard about it, 1 caravan can give you 1k seals, that is 750~1000 every 15-20 minutes.

Compared to Atomos, Caravan can be a lot more profitable because there isnt a long wait time in between and you are guaranteed to get your seals at the end, only difference is that less people can do Caravans compared to Atomos, so what is the real issue here? is it that people get seals and trade them in for items to make gil out of it? or it is that there is too much people doing this instead of a small few?

---

The fact is some if not most players dont want to farm or work for the gil they need, therefore they take the easy route. There are 2 LS members who was asking about this 1 said im too busy to go farm i am working on achievements and the other said farming no thanks. This is the issue as players are too damn lazy to get off their ass like most other players and farm/work to make gil. Getting gil in 1.0 isnt hard hell spirit bonding can make you a shit ton of gil but .... some players just dont want to put the effort into it and choose to take the easy route out.

im glad they did this but at the same time it seems too late

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angelas

Wrong way to fix it, the event didnt cause this to happen.. people were doing this with dawn drops from months ago.. all of a sudden something is wrong with it?

This isnt the only reason I will be leaving the game early until 2.0 but its one of the reasons.. very poor planning this week I will take care of space on my character then I am out until 2.0.. done with poor planning and treating their current players like crap

edited: for the record I wasnt even really using dawn drops to make a bunch of money but this stumbling nonsense SE keeps falling into is just idiocy

---

Cause getting rid of a cheap way to make money is treating their players like crap?

Awesome logic is awesome.

good points from both sides but I think it's about time to close this thread :) Not much more can be gained here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Godking

Cause getting rid of a cheap way to make money is treating their players like crap?

Awesome logic is awesome.

---

The handling of their Atomos debacle wasnt a direct relation to the additional statement.. "with poor planning AND treating their current players like crap." Maybe you should read that statement and understand that one doesnt have to relate to the other, thats the purpose of the word AND..

Damn it

Once again the rich got richer, and us poor saps are left looking for table scraps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaimie

Damn it

Once again the rich got richer, and us poor saps are left looking for table scraps.

---

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, bucko.

It is so easy to make money in this game nobody has any excuse to be broke save laziness or poor spending habits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, bucko.

It is so easy to make money in this game nobody has any excuse to be broke save laziness or poor spending habits.

---

I ain't broke, and make good coin selling lvl 1 materia (as long as I can keep my retainer in Uldah that is).

I'm just jealous, cuz I don't anything about this atomos event, and how to profit from it. /cry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, bucko.

It is so easy to make money in this game nobody has any excuse to be broke save laziness or poor spending habits.

---

Indeed, but your over seeing something about that... say average player A likes to farm stuff for his gil, so at end of a 4 hr play session he could net what 300k - a mil? Player B likes to use his 4 hrs to make 5 mil doing pretty much nothing, for over a week( lets say 10 days).. player A has made roughly 3 mil - 10 mil in those 10 days while working and using legit game mechanics that ARE intended. Player B, while using very little work and unintended game mechanics has netted 50 mil+++.. Regardless, people who have overly used that atomos fudge up have far exceeded wealth of players who try to enjoy and play the game as intended vs those looking for a quick buck exploit.. and it can't be taken back and can't be earned now, so those who didn't know, knew it was wrong, or just plain didn't give a damn have lost out from this screw up.

And remember, not everyone is running around with lvl 50 across the board and can make or do anything as it comes into thier mind :p