New Variant Dungeon: Reward structure is a downgrade from previous ones.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

It seriously can't be that hard.. and this is their 4th go at it.

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It very much seems like the complaints from the previous 3 went into one ear and out of the other.
What makes this even funnier is that advanced has accessories you can buy, with unique models, but they made them level 1 with no stats.

Criterion is quite literally the same rewards as before. A mount, an orchestrion roll, a framer's kit and materia.
All they really did is shuffle some rewards from variant into the new advanced boss rush.

I haven't even played the new patch & I'm already cringing at their decision from reading this thread.

At the very least, they could've ADD rewards to the higher difficulties. But noooo, let's starve the lower difficulty reward and put it behind criterion equivalent advanced+ difficulty. Hey, at the very least they're tradeable? lmao.

They REALLY do be pushing people into the high ends this expac, eh?

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Originally Posted by Underscore

[…]Rewarding higher difficulty is just basic game design.[…]

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I agree in spirit. However in this case, it would’ve echoed better if that is how they’ve been doing from the get go since Sil’dihn implementation. They made it even better in Aloalo savages, but now they take 2 steps backward.

OK... Come at me but I don't disagree with the person who talks about rewards proportional to the challenge it takes. That's how literally 99% of video games do it. Whether you think most players care or don't care that someone achieved something in the game is irrelevant. But that's besides the point...

I don't even know what could possibly explain this new blunder. This has got to be the most tone deaf response to player feedback I've seen in this game since the beginning of ARR...

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

OK... Come at me but I don't disagree with the person who talks about rewards proportional to the challenge it takes. That's how literally 99% of video games do it. Whether you think most players care or don't care that someone achieved something in the game is irrelevant. But that's besides the point...

I don't even know what could possibly explain this new blunder. This has got to be the most tone deaf response to player feedback I've seen in this game since the beginning of ARR...

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I don't necessarily disagree with that stance either, the rewards are what garners initial interest in content since you can't know right away whether it's actually enjoyable or not and the more challenging content usually needs more enticing rewards due to the assumed investment required to complete it. But where I disagree with the poster is that it's simply not the case here.

Discovering all 12 different routes is a reasonable time investment for the mount, and precedent has been set with all previous iterations of variant, devaluing that time investment is not the way to go about it. While the actual challenging content didn't get any of the changes people asked for, so you're not even rewarded "proportional to the challenge".

Yeah, removing the mount from the all paths achievement is really, really disappointing. I probably will still try Advanced if I can gather some friends for it, but I really enjoyed working towards those old Variant mounts, both with friends and alone. I always thought doing a solo run of Variant here and there was a fun way to spend some time if I didn't have anything else to do.
I'll probably still end up doing it, I guess, but I'm not gonna be excited for the final reward. Whereas before, completing all Variant routes had value both in its journey and destination, now it's only the former which offers any value. Really tragic.

Why in the world would they make the reward for all paths a glamour item instead of a mount? They already had established the reward for all paths was a mount. This is just dumb.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Why in the world would they make the reward for all paths a glamour item instead of a mount? They already had established the reward for all paths was a mount. This is just dumb.

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Speak nothing of the fact that facewear is HIGHLY individual preference.

Rewards like this are usually relegated to sub loot
I cant imagine that too much effort is used to add facewear for an existing model (not even a new one, or relevant to the duty), so you cant even excuse it as development time
Why is the expansion with "50% more rewards" giving us rewards like that?

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Originally Posted by Kirutsuki

Speak nothing of the fact that facewear is HIGHLY individual preference.

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They could easily offer that where they offered glam before, purchasable with the potsherd currency. Or could even have made it drop out of the spoils boxes. Going through three other Variants and making the path reward a mount and then going to not a mount for the new Variant is as dumb as that glam item they offered for getting 90 in all classes when Shadowbringers gave the amaro. And they went back to a mount for all 100 in Dawntrail.

Even worse than I thought too, as they also removed the hairstyle and the framer's kit from prizes formerly buyable with potsherds.

It really sucks to be a casual player in this game.

I totally agree that the normal mode needed a mount or an exclusive glam that wasn't an eye mask for the casuals.

But at the same time if they were just a little bit willing to engage in content and try the advance version which is only the middle difficulty where you can die and be raised then they can now grind the aloalo weapons which are some of the best in the game.

I understand that casual believe that raiders get everything but making the alalo weapons available to the equivalent of an extreme level difficulty is literally taking away an achievement and a point of pride for raiders who did alalo for the exclusive weapons all for giving casuals who even try the slightly harder version a way to farm something that was previously only for hardcore raiders. I really encourage people to try advance and enjoy what is no longer exclusive.

Even then raiding rewards havent been fantastic. We have our usual ultimate weapons but ultis can take 100 hours plus to clear and that makes sense. Savage best in slot is the MINIMUM requirement to even be allowed into the ultimate and its not very fun to farm in PF when your RNG sucks. It definitely isn't all fun and gear and rewards.

Chaotic and I know I will get a lot of heat for saying this is only ex level and is for everyone. It has great rewards but they really aren't gatekept with just a little motivation. Quantum only gave a title. The latest ex I killed over 200 times and didn't get the mount.

My point is it kinda sucks for all right now raiders included but raiders lost a lot more exclusive stuff than they gained with this new content.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

But at the same time if they were just a little bit willing to engage in content and try the advance version which is only the middle difficulty where you can die and be raised then they can now grind the aloalo weapons which are some of the best in the game.

I understand that casual believe that raiders get everything but making the alalo weapons available to the equivalent of an extreme level difficulty is literally taking away an achievement and a point of pride for raiders who did alalo for the exclusive weapons all for giving casuals who even try the slightly harder version a way to farm something that was previously only for hardcore raiders. I really encourage people to try advance and enjoy what is no longer exclusive.

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This is wrong, you aren't actually able to use your esters unless you have beaten Aloalo Savage
So for the casuals to get access to the glow they need to do a completely separate and much harder duty, which is even more stupid

Also complaining about raiders losing exclusivity is kind of ridiculous, do you also lose sleep once last expac savage fights can be unsynced by the casuals?
This is their way (however nonsensical it may be) to introduce a way for casuals to "unsync" Aloalo without being able to get the exclusive title, it should not even be a talking point

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

This is wrong, you aren't actually able to use your esters unless you have beaten Aloalo Savage
So for the casuals to get access to the glow they need to do a completely separate and much harder duty, which is even more stupid

Also complaining about raiders losing exclusivity is kind of ridiculous, do you also lose sleep once last expac savage fights can be unsynced by the casuals?
This is their way (however nonsensical it may be) to introduce a way for casuals to "unsync" Aloalo without being able to get the exclusive title, it should not even be a talking point

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Untrue. You need to beat another aloalo island (the medium difficulty) to unlock the vendor not savage. They changed the naming scheme this time and confused everyone.

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

This is wrong, you aren't actually able to use your esters unless you have beaten Aloalo Savage
So for the casuals to get access to the glow they need to do a completely separate and much harder duty, which is even more stupid

Also complaining about raiders losing exclusivity is kind of ridiculous, do you also lose sleep once last expac savage fights can be unsynced by the casuals?
This is their way (however nonsensical it may be) to introduce a way for casuals to "unsync" Aloalo without being able to get the exclusive title, it should not even be a talking point

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Alalo was ultimate level and should not be unsynced ever and the weapons should never have left aloalo ever. Next you guys will want uwu weapons from tomestones and DSR totems from finishing HW.

Also savage uncyncing is different. The average savage fight takes 20 hours to prog maximum whereas aloalo was ultimate level and could take up to 100 hours.

This game is pretty much done, i stopped playing after i finished the Dawntrail MSQ and only came back for the free logins. Only exception is now, i felt like giving it a try because maybe there is enough content after i waited for over a year. And it turns out there is not. You either play that little bit of content you get or have nothing to do at all, choosing isn't really an option because if you choose to not do one or two things then theres nothing else left.

Not only is there less content per patch but also more time between patches, meanwhile everything that could be a potential good reward ends up on the mog station.

People joke about complaining players not quitting the game all the time, but it's definitely happening. I stopped caring, i alomost never post and i can only do so because i subbed. After the 30 days are over i'm gone again, i tried hard to have fun and get motivated but it's not possible and it's not because i grew out of MMORPGs, it's because FFXIV is just bad now.

I will keep myself informed about the future of FFXIV and if anything will change, but spending any money on a bad product is nothing i would want to do.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Untrue. You need to beat another aloalo island to unlock the vendor not savage

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You need to beat Criterion, from what I've heard
If you have screenshots to prove me wrong, please share

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Alalo was ultimate level and should not be unsynced ever and the weapons should never have left aloalo ever. Next you guys will want uwu weapons from tomestones and DSR totems from finishing HW

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Are you going to keep making up strawmen or actually present an argument?
Nobody is asking for ultimate levels to be acquired from anywhere else than ultimates
Aloalo is not an ultimate and does not have to be treated the same as an ultimate

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

You need to beat Criterion, from what I've heard
If you have screenshots to prove me wrong, please share


Are you going to keep making up strawmen or actually present an argument?
Nobody is asking for ultimate levels to be acquired from anywhere else than ultimates
Aloalo is not an ultimate and does not have to be treated the same as an ultimate

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Aloalo was on the same level as an ultimate. It was a 20+ minute boss gauntlet where you couldn't die and needed best in slot gear. It was harder than UwU and Ucob. These weapons were rarer than ulti weapons and shouldn't be given out like candy.

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

You need to beat Criterion, from what I've heard
If you have screenshots to prove me wrong, please share


Are you going to keep making up strawmen or actually present an argument?
Nobody is asking for ultimate levels to be acquired from anywhere else than ultimates
Aloalo is not an ultimate and does not have to be treated the same as an ultimate

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Yes you need to beat criterion but criterion was the MIDDLE difficulty of aloalo and Criteron SAVAGE was where the weapons came from.

So now you only need to do the middle difficulty of both dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Yes you need to beat criterion but criterion was the MIDDLE difficulty of aloalo and Criteron SAVAGE was where the weapons came from.

So now you only need to do the middle difficulty of both dungeons.

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Youre going to compare Aloalo criterion to MT Advanced because they both are middle difficulties? lol
The duty that people beat in a few hours, the one that does not have an enrage?
Alo criterion is the same as savage except with less damage going out and no rez penalty, youre not even arguing in good faith

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

Youre going to compare Aloalo criterion to MT Advanced because they both are middle difficulties? lol
The duty that people beat in a few hours, the one that does not have an enrage?
Alo criterion is the same as savage except with less damage going out and no rez penalty, youre not even arguing in good faith

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OH my god you people will argue anything to not do content.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

OH my god you people will argue anything to not do content.

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I've actually done more content than you

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

I've actually done more content than you

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This is an alt not my main

Also besides the point. These were made easier to get and a lot of the exclusivity was lost. There are casual rewards for people who try to put in effort.

I agree that this was a downgrade and I hope Yoshi P is listening.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Also besides the point. These were made easier to get and a lot of the exclusivity was lost. There are casual rewards for people who try to put in effort.

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Apparently, the Criterion clear requirement was an oversight, so now you only need to clear advanced
I think I'll probably do it for the BLU umbrella (that should not have been locked behing Aloalo savage to begin with)

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

OH my god you people will argue anything to not do content.

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God forbid we do what we want with our sub.

I'd try advanced if I had a group for it, but I don't. I tried criterion and I had no desire to repeatedly beat my head against the wall for no rewards.

But God forbid I'd still like to have access to the same amount of rewards as before.

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Originally Posted by Pricia

God forbid we do what we want with our sub.

I'd try advanced if I had a group for it, but I don't. I tried criterion and I had no desire to repeatedly beat my head against the wall for no rewards.

But God forbid I'd still like to have access to the same amount of rewards as before.

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There are rewards there you just have to actively find a group, maybe try Party Finder. Some of the best rewards in the game are now so beyond easy to get but they aren't just handed to you even thought its pretty close.

The reward structure of this one (or any of them) isn't great but the fights are so much fun, I really enjoyed all four of the bosses (even the two mini bosses) and the fight designs had some originality to them, weren't hard to figure out, and weren't overly punishing. I'm excited to do Advanced in a couple days when I have the time to devote to it, I've been told it's not very difficult.

That was not an easy grind to finish this time around i felt.
Feeling pretty damn insulted with the lackluster face mask instead of a mount.

SE, How about you ACTUALLY TALK TO PLAYERS ABOUT REWARDS!

Clearly SE is increasingly out of touch with its player base. Oh unless you are Hardcore, then you get everything handed too you despite only playing 3-4 weeks each patch unlike everyone else who plays year round and gets largely ignored/taken for granted.

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Originally Posted by Pricia

God forbid we do what we want with our sub.

I'd try advanced if I had a group for it, but I don't. I tried criterion and I had no desire to repeatedly beat my head against the wall for no rewards.

But God forbid I'd still like to have access to the same amount of rewards as before.

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No no, see casuals are meant to be satisfied just running their content for the fun of it to fund 'proper' content.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

No no, see casuals are meant to be satisfied just running their content for the fun of it to fund 'proper' content.

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The casual peasants are starting to rise up, and we are pissed.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

That was not an easy grind to finish this time around i felt.
Feeling pretty damn insulted with the lackluster face mask instead of a mount.

SE, How about you ACTUALLY TALK TO PLAYERS ABOUT REWARDS!

Clearly SE is increasingly out of touch with its player base. Oh unless you are Hardcore, then you get everything handed too you despite only playing 3-4 weeks each patch unlike everyone else who plays year round and gets largely ignored/taken for granted.

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I play hardcore and year round. *gasp*
Its almost like it takes. 8 weeks to gear 1 single job from savage let alone any alt jobs.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

OH my god you people will argue anything to not do content.

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People will do what they enjoy, it's not that difficult. Not everybody likes raiding especially with the speed of it in DT. And people who don't like raiding STILL deserve content because, as I said before, they still pay a sub.

Why do you come in every thread where casuals ask for anything more than scraps just to be condescending and just insufferable? Nobody cares that you're a raider, stop propping yourself up, you're just a player like everyone else, every time I see you it's "oh my god you people, you casuals are so lazy, you want everything handed to you. This should take effort blah blah blah." you clearly have an agenda to push or something because the casuals do not want everything handed to them they just want content they can do that is FUN to them and to them raiding is NOT fun. How hard is that to get? Stop trying to act superior, you're not above anyone because you're a raider. Actual childlike behavior from you on these forums time and time again.

If you care so much about "effort" go do something in real life where it actually matters.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

That was not an easy grind to finish this time around i felt.
Feeling pretty damn insulted with the lackluster face mask instead of a mount.

SE, How about you ACTUALLY TALK TO PLAYERS ABOUT REWARDS!

Clearly SE is increasingly out of touch with its player base. Oh unless you are Hardcore, then you get everything handed too you despite only playing 3-4 weeks each patch unlike everyone else who plays year round and gets largely ignored/taken for granted.

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I don't think it's that difficult of a grind, but yes, the reward is a slap in the face seeing as it's essentially just the Pajama Eye Mask, which is basically sub-10K Gil,,.,

Which if you think about it is hilarious because this 'reskin'-esque stuff has actually been getting worse seeing as the 'High Mobility Vacuum Suit Identification Key' -- Which you get for doing 500K cosmic class score on every class, has already been re-skinned twice to my knowledge.

It's quite clear that they have a big problem with assets, and reward systems, and some people are unironically defending this mess.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

I play hardcore and year round. *gasp*
Its almost like it takes. 8 weeks to gear 1 single job from savage let alone any alt jobs.

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The savage loot system is absolutely ridiculous. That's coming from someone who doesn't play savage. Can't roll on loot even though you lost a roll? That pretty much negates every comment saying that Savage is doable in PF (because why even bother).

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I don't think it's that difficult of a grind, but yes, the reward is a slap in the face seeing as it's essentially just the Pajama Eye Mask, which is basically sub-10K Gil,,.,

Which if you think about it is hilarious because this 'reskin'-esque stuff has actually been getting worse seeing as the 'High Mobility Vacuum Suit Identification Key' -- Which you get for doing 500K cosmic class score on every class, has already been re-skinned twice to my knowledge.

It's quite clear that they have a big problem with assets, and reward systems, and some people are unironically defending this mess.

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Arguably, the achievement one looks best.

But it's complete laziness from Square at this point to just give us recolors (like the Dawntrain hunts achievement reward...). If it was a recolor of a rare mount I wouldn't be mad, but this is ridiculous.

I have a feeling next variant we get a fire work item that never runs out.

I don't think anyone is necessarily complaining about the type of content but moreso the reward structure in both directions. So talking about "what is casual content" in the midst of that just seems like an intentional red herring not intended to be answered. If you enter the thread and make it all about casuals not wanting to try advanced, why act surprised when no one is interested in debating you? The current player ire does not have to do with that, it's just about common sense, really.

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Originally Posted by Pricia

I'd try advanced if I had a group for it, but I don't. I tried criterion and I had no desire to repeatedly beat my head against the wall for no rewards.

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You don't need a group for Advanced as there is a matchmaking option to queue with random players like with normal Variant. And having cleared a few times myself, I can honestly say that it really isn't very difficult, I went in blind with three other random people and we cleared two bosses on the first try and the third after one wipe. The boss mechanics are a bit souped up, but there are no enrages and you have full access to variant actions such as Raise and can even use Phoenix Downs. Much like Pilgrim's Traverse, the bosses feel like that good spot between normal and Extreme(occupied already by some normal fights like SoS)

I do agree tho that it's bullshit they removed the significant, unique reward for completing all routes, at the very least they coulda given us a thematically appropriate face veil or even Pari of Plenty's mask/headdress thing

Okay, Lollerblades, not the language I would have used but I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment!