Trust System is ruining our game

The whole reason I like doing Duty Support on my first blind runs is because the NPCs always add an extra layer of personality.

But they do have quirks and personalities, like Alisaie's infamous tendency to pop limit break the millisecond it's up, Alphinaud always prioritizing Alisaie, and PLD G'raha insta mashing Clemency upon your WoL if your HP gets below 70%.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I gave up trying to use the trusts because all of my trust characters are stuck at level 73 and I do not have a desire to spend endless hours trying to level them up. They need a better means of leveling them or just sell a level up pack on the Mogstation.

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Eh, you don't have to do it all at once. Just casually do a couple runs and they will slowly level. It would just be a matter of time in your case.

As we get higher up in level, I think making a trust leveling item purchasable with tomestones would be good. It makes sense because the only time you use trusts is with instanced content.

I can also see people crying about this because you didn't "grind" like they did, but it wouldn't matter honestly. People that have zero friends need some love too.

duty support is good because it keeps griefing players out of my queues if they get kicked from multiplayer often enough

trust is good because character dialogue is good

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

The biggest issue was that trust system changes "replaced" rather than added as an option. Really... what they should've done/should do is start off a dungeon with the intent of it being ran with 4p, then remove/change whatever mechanics needed for trusts as an entirely separate form of the same dungeon. So theres the option to run normal with folks or "story mode" with trusts...

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This defeats the entire purpose because the point is to introduce sprouts to mechanics earlier. You have sequential AoEs and donuts in Copperbell. You have moving tornadoes in Stone Vigil. You have exaflares in Sohr Khai. Dzemael's eye boss does sequential AoEs along with line AoEs, sometimes layering them. They're simple to us looking at these things as veterans but they will assure that sprouts we later get in roulettes will be well versed in these mechanics in ways they weren't before the changes.

The idea that you can "teach mechanics" to sprouts is literally the source of the rot that has afflicted pve. The older versions also had mechanics, the difference is that not only were they considered out of the current pve direction, but that they also were all unique in their own way. Teaching mechanics the way dungeons are being changed is actually about teaching a formula, because it's literally teaching a set of interchangeable basic mechanics like stack, spread, etc, an expecting that every encounter later will be an endless variation of the same slop.

Even the advanced Hall of the Novice they added at lvl50 is literally all about this. It favors mechanical rote reproduction over creativity and uniqueness.

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Originally Posted by Valence

The idea that you can "teach mechanics" to sprouts is literally the source of the rot that has afflicted pve. The older versions also had mechanics, the difference is that not only were they considered out of the current pve direction, but that they also were all unique in their own way. Teaching mechanics the way dungeons are being changed is actually about teaching a formula, because it's literally teaching a set of interchangeable basic mechanics like stack, spread, etc, an expecting that every encounter later will be an endless variation of the same slop.

Even the advanced Hall of the Novice they added at lvl50 is literally all about this. It favors mechanical rote reproduction over creativity and uniqueness.

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I get what you’re saying but there’s a contradiction about this design though. People complain when sprouts don’t know what to do, but also complain when the game tries to teach them. How exactly are the developers supposed to win? If teaching sprouts through standardized mechanics is bad, and having unique mechanics sprouts don’t understand is also bad, then what’s the alternative? Should the game just stop accepting new players so only long‑time veterans remain?

And honestly, I don’t understand the obsession with making leveling dungeons extremely hard or unique. You run them once a day, if even that. The game already has high‑end content designed for challenge and creativity. Let sprouts and returners have easier dungeons? It genuinely doesn’t affect the people who want difficult content, and it doesn’t diminish the harder modes that already exist. On top of that, whenever a dungeon is slightly harder than usual people complain left and right when they get a person who isn't as good at the game because the run will take slightly longer. So again, there is no winning here.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

They ruined one of my favorite dungeons "Dzemael Darkhold".
The fights were unique and fun.. now its like every other fight..

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One of your favorite dungeons was Dzemael Darkhold? Hoo boy...
And unique and fun? There was nothing 'fun' about just sitting there waiting for doors to open. Are we for real?

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Originally Posted by Valence

The idea that you can "teach mechanics" to sprouts is literally the source of the rot that has afflicted pve. The older versions also had mechanics, the difference is that not only were they considered out of the current pve direction, but that they also were all unique in their own way. Teaching mechanics the way dungeons are being changed is actually about teaching a formula, because it's literally teaching a set of interchangeable basic mechanics like stack, spread, etc, an expecting that every encounter later will be an endless variation of the same slop.

Even the advanced Hall of the Novice they added at lvl50 is literally all about this. It favors mechanical rote reproduction over creativity and uniqueness.

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Did you never have someone in a party lose it because a sprout ran with the stack and they were in a higher level dungeon or raid? "Why can't you do X at Y level". I've certainly seen those sentiments expressed in chat. And it often makes the sprout feel bad or like they're a drag or burden on the party. Having these mechanics exposed to them earlier and at a time when most likely they're surrounded by if not fellow sprouts but at least understanding veterans is a good thing. Then sprouts can be new later but have mechanics they can reference back to and feel confident when they play.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

The biggest problem really is the Trust/Duty Support NPCs. They're so bad at the game, and their AI somehow still manages to be dumber than the Squadron AI...

There's only 2 more dungeons for them to change for them at least, Dusk Vigil and Shisui of the Violet Tides.

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You poor innocent soul, they still have to ruin all the optional "hard" dungeons. Like Stone Vigil (hard), how are new players ever supposed to deal with the cannon encounter or the boss that targets people randomly?

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Originally Posted by Andevom

We've done it, we've found the one player who likes DD.

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Make that two.

I enjoyed old Toto-Rak (the worst part was probably how boring the first two "bosses" were), I enjoyed old Aurum Vale and I enjoyed Dzemael Darkhold.

Not necessarily because they were amazingly designed, but because they all at least tried something different.
Unlike all the copy+paste dungeons we've gotten for like 6 years now.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Did you never have someone in a party lose it because a sprout ran with the stack and they were in a higher level dungeon or raid? "Why can't you do X at Y level". I've certainly seen those sentiments expressed in chat. And it often makes the sprout feel bad or like they're a drag or burden on the party. Having these mechanics exposed to them earlier and at a time when most likely they're surrounded by if not fellow sprouts but at least understanding veterans is a good thing. Then sprouts can be new later but have mechanics they can reference back to and feel confident when they play.

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Except they've experienced those mechanics already since Heavensward.
If they're in a level 90 or even a level 100 encounter, after 3 expansions worth of those mechanics, and still don't know how to do them do you seriously think adding them to the earliest dungeons will really help?

Not to mention the fact that Cyrcus Tower, probably the most frequently run duty in the entire game, is still teaching them that it's completely fine to overlap those stack markers.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

They are nerfing our dungeons so it can be Trust System "friendly"

They ruined one of my favorite dungeons "Dzemael Darkhold".
The fights were unique and fun.. now its like every other fight..

Why cant they just make another version of the dungeons just for Trust system and leave our normal dungeons alone!

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I'm starting to think they don't really get what a dungeons is.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

I get what you’re saying but there’s a contradiction about this design though. People complain when sprouts don’t know what to do, but also complain when the game tries to teach them. How exactly are the developers supposed to win? If teaching sprouts through standardized mechanics is bad, and having unique mechanics sprouts don’t understand is also bad, then what’s the alternative? Should the game just stop accepting new players so only long‑time veterans remain?

And honestly, I don’t understand the obsession with making leveling dungeons extremely hard or unique. You run them once a day, if even that. The game already has high‑end content designed for challenge and creativity. Let sprouts and returners have easier dungeons? It genuinely doesn’t affect the people who want difficult content, and it doesn’t diminish the harder modes that already exist. On top of that, whenever a dungeon is slightly harder than usual people complain left and right when they get a person who isn't as good at the game because the run will take slightly longer. So again, there is no winning here.

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I am not one of those toxic players that spend their time complaining about other players, especially sprouts. They should help each other or go touch grass.
Couldn't care less, they have no valid argument there.
People will also have to understand that in this quest to remove all friction from the game, the community, the jobs, the content, we eventually end up with the bland vapid and tasteless state of the game we currently have.

I don't want leveling dungeons to be hard. I just want ALL dungeons to be unique in their own way, with their own flavor and engaging things to do. The current formula ain't it for me.
If the actual reworks involved smoothing out rough edges instead of deleting everything that's cool, I'd actually support it.
Like for example, the layout rework on totorak went too far on making it a hallway, but the camera was a nightmare and it's good they fixed it. Removing patrols and unique mechanics from Dzemael though, that's not it for me.