GNB is TERRIBLE now!

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Delirium should be a 40s CD.
Reduce the potency to compensate but keep the MP generation as is

Easiest fix to DRK on the planet.

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They should bring back the 10% Haste effect too, thanks to stacking SKS gear and that 10% Haste, I was able to make a set that took my GCD under Blood Weapon to 2.06s

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

This would actually be kinda neat I really would like delirium on 40s. And it lines up with the all mighty 2 minutes

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Funny cos Delerium is now an upgrade to Blood Weapon, and Blood Weapon WAS a 40s CD back in SB

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Would you rather be able to adjust your rotation to suit the fight, or, having the fight force you to change the rotation and then you having to play a less optimal rotation for the rest of the fight?

I'm pretty sure most would rather be able to adjust their rotation to suit the fight. If I use Gnashing Fang slightly earlier, I can get it out before the boss jumps and still have it align with the buff window. Before the changes, Gnashing fang might have come off of cooldown and it just drifts with no way to adjust. I know which on I would prefer.

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These are one and the same. Adjusting a rotation to suit the fight accounts for the downtime, you build a rotation around it. There have always been ways with fights that have downtime to fix your rotation from the drifting and lack of carts to return it once more to the usual optimal rotation. To me, no good gunbreaker would sit on a rotation that's just less optimal forever, if you know what you are doing you know that you can re adjust your rotation and get everything back on track. You either sacrifice a bit of your own dps to re algin everything with the parties buffs for their sake, or if going for your own numbers, realign your timers with your own buffs and ignore the party. Maybe you need to burn an extra cart ahead of time that you normally wouldn't in order to fix everything, etc.

You mentioned using Gnashing at different timings earlier, you could do that with the old rotation too. Does no one remember bursting earlier during p12s p1 so that you can just barely finish gnashing before she leaves for adds phase? In fact, optimal buff timing was also 0s in that fight too, so it perfectly aligned with our own (gnb's) burst. If you are with a random group you simply experiment with bursting on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even clipping NM before your 1st gcd, until you find the groups average killtime such that you end on burst, this was one method I used to obtain pinks. Examples like this and more exist, it's not somehow possible now thanks to the changes, it was always possible. This was part of the skill expression of the job.

I think its very reasonable to like some parts of the changes and not like others, but people in this thread cannot see nuance. I dislike that the burst is handed to you for free now, but dots being on a shorter timer is nice and same for lionheart being on a 1minute so the job is a bit less of a slave to crit variance.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

If I had to guess:
-Living Shadow cooldown reduced to 60s
-Shadowbringer reduced to 30s CD with two charges
-TBN no longer costs MP to use
-TBN no longer grants Dark Arts on break
-TBN when hit grants a regen
-TBN's CD increased to 25s

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This is most likely given current design direction, unfortunately. I'm hoping that if TBN becomes just another 25s non-interactive cooldown it at least gets two charges or a -10s cooldown upon breaking, otherwise Holy Sheltron will be the one of the strongest and the most flexible tank short CDs in game (which it already is, but if you squint you can pretend that current TBN has more uses per minute).

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Originally Posted by Kai-XP

3) Change TBN cause comparatively speaking, it's a garbage Mit nowadays

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25% effective HP shield that exponentially scales with percentage mitigation, garbage mitigation? Where?

For context, 25% effective HP increase is also what Rampart does with its mitigation alone. If you used a single TBN in 20s with no further input, it literally matches Rampart. And it only gets better due to multiplicative scaling making it exponentially better, rather than having diminishing returns.

Formula used:

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Effective HP = x / (1 - damage reduction / 100 )

Example: Effective HP = 10,000 / (1 - 20/100) -> 10,000 / (1 - 0,2) -> 10,000 / 0.8 = 12,500
12,500 is 25% greater than 10,000.

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We can always talk about that some players don't like its MP cost or other aspects of it, but it is most certainly not weak or garbage.

Not weak garbage unless you have 12 mobs around you. Then 25% of health is far worse than 15% mitigation. %mit defensives have theoretically unlimited mitigation protentional. TBN mitigation cap is 25% health + a bit. If they ever add hard content where you have to hold multiple mobs as a tank, people would realize how completely trash TBN is against anything over 1 enemy. It just math bro.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

Not weak garbage unless you have 12 mobs around you. Then 25% of health is far worse than 15% mitigation. %mit defensives have theoretically unlimited mitigation protentional. TBN mitigation cap is 25% health + a bit. If they ever add hard content where you have to hold multiple mobs as a tank, people would realize how completely trash TBN is against anything over 1 enemy. It just math bro.

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We just had a boss with multiple adds in savage and DRK is fine.

*grabs chalk & board*

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Originally Posted by Akivar

Not weak garbage unless you have 12 mobs around you. Then 25% of health is far worse than 15% mitigation.

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This is only true if the 15% mitigation lasts longer than the 25% shield's cooldown and enemies chew through your entire HP pool in that time. External healing/shields being applied will affect both equally in survival, so they are trivial to the comparison.

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15% mitigation to eHP multiplier

eHP = 10,000 / (1-15/100) = 11,764.71 ---> That's +17.76% eHP

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If you use TBN or the 15% mitigation and nothing else for their full duration and reach 1 HP, TBN will last you longer before you reach 1 HP. If you don't reach 1 HP, TBN will be better because it will eat through TBN first before going to your regular HP.

So even if your 15% mitigation had a 15s duration and a 15s cooldown so you could use it as often as TBN, you would still have less effective HP than using TBN and having it eat through the shield first.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

%mit defensives have theoretically unlimited mitigation protentional. TBN mitigation cap is 25% health + a bit.

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They literally don't though. Your main limiter is your max health. Every % mit is just an eHP multiplier that scales similarly to TBN for effective HP for it's duration. If we are talking about single instances or condensed bursts of damage (busters), they behave virtually the same.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

If they ever add hard content where you have to hold multiple mobs as a tank, people would realize how completely trash TBN is against anything over 1 enemy.

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DRK did fine mitigation wise for M6S. What sets the job apart from other tanks is the other properties that tank CDs have, namely healing & regen effects, which DRK has - but differently applied and not quite the same quantity. DRK's main advantage is the lower cooldown on its extra CD (Dark Mind) + short mitigation (The Blackest Night), as well as having Oblation as a separate optional layer in place of a TBN upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Akivar

It just math bro.

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This is quite rich given the one that's been providing math to prove points is me. I'm not going by feels, I'm going by math.

Basically every single world first race party ran DRK/PLD into M6S for a reason.
Week 1 DRK did better than Week 1 WAR did despite the perception of bloodwhetting being broken in AOE. I honestly don't think WAR even got to be called broken in that fight until gear was distributed.

Been using it a little but I noticed that in any content <lv100 you'd want to stuff 2 Gnashing Fang combos into No Mercy. Even at lv100 I'm pretty sure you'd want to hold a charge for when using tinctures too.

It's weird, it means you no longer have a mini-burst outside buffs until lv100 and with Continuation you have less weave windows during the 60s burst than at lv100 as well.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

Been using it a little but I noticed that in any content <lv100 you'd want to stuff 2 Gnashing Fang combos into No Mercy. Even at lv100 I'm pretty sure you'd want to hold a charge for when using tinctures too.

It's weird, it means you no longer have a mini-burst outside buffs until lv100 and with Continuation you have less weave windows during the 60s burst than at lv100 as well.

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That's funny, because they removed the damage from Rough Divide (now Trajectory) to reduce how many damage-weaves were in the burst, because people were choosing damage over 'press mitigation to actually survive the incoming hit', same with DRK's Plunge/Shadowstride

SE creates a solution for their self-made problem, makes themselves a new problem in the process


Also, doesn't this mean you'd press Gnashing Fang FIVE times in a row during burst?

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Originally Posted by Stroodle

These are one and the same. Adjusting a rotation to suit the fight accounts for the downtime, you build a rotation around it. There have always been ways with fights that have downtime to fix your rotation from the drifting and lack of carts to return it once more to the usual optimal rotation. To me, no good gunbreaker would sit on a rotation that's just less optimal forever, if you know what you are doing you know that you can re adjust your rotation and get everything back on track. You either sacrifice a bit of your own dps to re algin everything with the parties buffs for their sake, or if going for your own numbers, realign your timers with your own buffs and ignore the party. Maybe you need to burn an extra cart ahead of time that you normally wouldn't in order to fix everything, etc...

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Not going to lie, I keep going back and forth as to whether they are the same or not. If there is a difference, it is very nuanced, however, I will say the following;

Why should you have to lose potential DPS by using an un-optimal burst phase or by delaying your burst phase? Wouldn't it feel more rewarding if you were able to adjust Gnashing Fang to not lose out on potential DPS because you have that flexibility, rather than having to look at the whole fight and work out which is the least bad option?

1% Gunbreaker DPS nerf to a job that was like 2-3% ahead of the other tanks in DPS is not change anything.

Gunbreaker will still be best in class.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

1% Gunbreaker DPS nerf to a job that was like 2-3% ahead of the other tanks in DPS is not change anything.

Gunbreaker will still be best in class.

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Are you pretending that people are only mad about the damage change? a lot of people are mad about the rotation changes more then anything which is valid GNB doesn't need to appeal to people who disliked it before.

Maybe the future of FF14 is all jobs in a specific role playing the same, you just choose which Jobs animations you like the most. Have been thinking for a while that this might be where the game is heading.

The dev notes on the change pretty much sums up their job design philosophy these days:

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If gunbreaker did not manage their cartridges carefully during burst phases, executing Bloodfest would result in cartridge overflow. To rectify this irritation, we have added an effect to Bloodfest that increases the maximum number of cartridges available.

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Apparently it is unreasonable to ask the player to carefully manage their resources, everything must be made nearly impossible to fail.

I like the new changes on GNB. Been playign it since it came out so i been sticking to it. Hell im like one of the few GNb mains some of my fc members trust for harder content. The new charge for GF? i'll take the potency nerf for it. Gives some breathing when in downtime, Lionheart being every minute? Feels nice especially when you can time it with no mercy. Some of the buffs/nerfs GNB got this patch i like.