The current find/setup party system is great

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

Way to completely miss the point.

---

From what I read from you and many others is that you don't understand the system so you hate it. If I'm "missing the point," please inform me of what the point is =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dubont

From what I read from you and many others is that you don't understand the system so you hate it. If I'm "missing the point," please inform me of what the point is =)

---

The point is people dont use it for two reasons.
Its a bad designed mechanic.
There is barely anything to do with party.

get off your cloud , you arent smarter or better informed than anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

The point is people dont use it for two reasons.
Its a bad designed mechanic.
There is barely anything to do with party.

get off your cloud , you arent smarter or better informed than anyone.

---

I didn't claim to be. I just know that the majority of players in this game refuse to use it because they don't understand how it works. Also, nothing to do with a party? You do realize that, in the long run, grinding sp mobs is more beneficial that leves right? You double your SP even more if you do both...so..nothing to do with a party? Sir, gtfo.

There you go again saying that it's bad...yet I doubt you even bothered to watch the vid and understand how to use it. Give me...3 reasons as to why it's a bad mechanic and I might actually side with you =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

He didn't personally attack you. He brought attention to your hypocrisy. A party-creating function exists, and just because you choose to not use it, doesn't make it bad.

And I'm really confused as to how you can possibly use the excuse that you don't want to use it because you might get a bad player... with the /sea all function in FFXI, you could get bad players all the time. ANY TIME you pug you have the chance of getting bad players.

So instead of straw-manning the discussion, how about you address the issue?

Now, all that being said, I agree they should add a /sea function. The current party search system works, if people use it. But adding a /sea function will only make the game better. As it is now, Leaders rely on players to join their party... a search function would also allow Leaders to actively recruit people. There is no reason not to have a /sea function.

Though, I have a feeling that if/when it's added, people will find that the true reason that people aren't using the party function at the moment is because they're soloing. Most of the people that group up only do it for leves or with their LS. So even though a /sea function will be useful, I don't think it will change much.

---

thank you.While i dont agree with the rest and i find the system completely useless . ( as in barely anyone uses it )that is what i been trying to say for a while.

Current system forces you to depend on " luck " to find members.Im not okay with that . I like to have control on what im doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

thank you.While i dont agree with the rest and i find the system completely useless . ( as in barely anyone uses it )that is what i been trying to say for a while.

Current system forces you to depend on " luck " to find members.Im not okay with that . I like to have control on what im doing.

---

I'm curious... can you explain why you don't agree that it's best to have both systems?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

I'm curious... can you explain why you don't agree that it's best to have both systems?

---

I never said it would not be best to have both system.
I said we NEED a party sea .Not Do over with the system.The current system is like a lemon juice without sugar.
Im always in favor to have options. Not limitations.
Sorry if the message got lost in the processes of people calling everyone else stupid and " people dont use it couse they dont know how to"

I agree with Dubont. After watching his video, the search for party became a lot easier to understand. I didn't get it at first, so I ignored it. Watch the tutorial, it makes the whole process easier.

The only negative, is the purpose of the party doesn't have an sp objective, but then again you can set it to none. Which hopefully people think of, if it's not leve's, it's a grind party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I agree with Dubont. After watching his video, the search for party became a lot easier to understand. I didn't get it at first, so I ignored it. Watch the tutorial, it makes the whole process easier.

The only negative, is the purpose of the party doesn't have an sp objective, but then again you can set it to none. Which hopefully people think of, if it's not leve's, it's a grind party.

---

yea, I noticed this too. This is why I set the purpose to "none" and in the comments section, I usually put that it's a grind party and what mobs we will be grinding.

Ok, to those who insist that the current party function is great (and those who don't use it are idiots):

That it requires a tutorial to understand, doesn't seem like a problem to you?

Zkieve is pretty much on the mark with all his points, except where he got all pissed off after being called idiotic or whatever. The current system requires the leader to just sit and wait for people to read his recruitment ad and join from that. The people who would join the party (once they decipher what the "Search" function actually DOES: search for recruitment ads), must periodically be going 3 menus deep (preventing all character movement or other input) and performing this recruitment ad search over and over until they find something that pertains to them.

Without a /sea function to at least gauge the viability of making a party at X time of day, the system is extremely luck-dependent. That is to say, the leader cannot pro-actively go out and start speaking to tanks if he needs tanks, he has to wait for a tank to do a recruitment ad search. Currently all the burden of work is on the party-seeker to continously spam searches, which is backwards because the reason a party-seeker is not a party-leader is BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO WORK.

It's a bad system. The party system isn't integrated into the keyboard controls to make it worthwhile for me to use. Too many clicks to get the usual no results message. It would be nice to press "/recruit 40-44 DoW" or XI's "/sea all" commands.

You can point fingers and say I'm lazy. The way I see it is this system is uninspired and needs help. I would like to see a flag icon similar to XI. It gave a sense of community and adventure. The flag tells others around you, you want to get together and do something- you wanna party. It planted the seed of playing with others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mega

It's a bad system. The party system isn't integrated into the keyboard controls to make it worthwhile for me to use. Too many clicks to get the usual no results message. It would be nice to press "/recruit 40-44 DoW" or XI's "/sea all" commands.

You can point fingers and say I'm lazy. The way I see it is this system is uninspired and needs help. I would like to see a flag icon similar to XI. It gave a sense of community and adventure. The flag tells others around you, you want to get together and do something- you wanna party. It planted the seed of playing with others.

---

*Points finger and shouts lazy*

/em begins to charge his buster gun

***peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewww***

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johannes_Mondego

Ok, to those who insist that the current party function is great (and those who don't use it are idiots):

That it requires a tutorial to understand, doesn't seem like a problem to you?

Zkieve is pretty much on the mark with all his points, except where he got all pissed off after being called idiotic or whatever. The current system requires the leader to just sit and wait for people to read his recruitment ad and join from that. The people who would join the party (once they decipher what the "Search" function actually DOES: search for recruitment ads), must periodically be going 3 menus deep (preventing all character movement or other input) and performing this recruitment ad search over and over until they find something that pertains to them.

Without a /sea function to at least gauge the viability of making a party at X time of day, the system is extremely luck-dependent. That is to say, the leader cannot pro-actively go out and start speaking to tanks if he needs tanks, he has to wait for a tank to do a recruitment ad search. Currently all the burden of work is on the party-seeker to continously spam searches, which is backwards because the reason a party-seeker is not a party-leader is BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO WORK.

---

I agree completely with this assessment of the situation. If one is "fired up" enough to want to make a party they should be able to do all the work needed to make and foster such a party. Not just sit back and hope that someone somewhere has some inclination of how to work the system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

The point is people dont use it for two reasons.
Its a bad designed mechanic.

---

Incorrect, the mechanic is sound, there is nothing wrong with the mechanics themselves

Quote:

---

There is barely anything to do with party.

---

Correct that is the one and only issue, do you think a /sea function will fix this? Im fine with an /SEA function but you should at least try and use the current mechanic before you write it off as useless.

Also I did not personally attack you, I know English is not your first language and that might be why every time someone disagrees with you, you immediately go on the defensive as if they attacked you where you retaliate with your personal attacks against the wrongly accused. It does not boad well with your arguments when you stoop down to that level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaene

I agree completely with this assessment of the situation. If one is "fired up" enough to want to make a party they should be able to do all the work needed to make and foster such a party. Not just sit back and hope that someone somewhere has some inclination of how to work the system.

---

IMO it should be a mixture of both.

Party leader puts up a recruit with criteria, players can view this and join if they choose to.

Player can put up a flag as seeking, party leader can view players if they fit the criteria of what they are looking for they can send out an invite.

Mix!!!

Party leader puts up a recruit sets criteria of what they want. Player puts up a flag if their criteria matches what a party leader is looking for the system auto joins them to the party. Both player and leader can go about their business as the system auto joins members.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

Incorrect, the mechanic is sound, there is nothing wrong with the mechanics themselves



Correct that is the one and only issue, do you think a /sea function will fix this? Im fine with an /SEA function but you should at least try and use the current mechanic before you write it off as useless.

Also I did not personally attack you, I know English is not your first language and that might be why every time someone disagrees with you, you immediately go on the defensive as if they attacked you where you retaliate with your personal attacks against the wrongly accused. It does not boad well with your arguments when you stoop down to that level.

---

Do you really believe everyone who says " this is bad" is because they dont use it .I use it every day and is why i can say is a badly designed mechanic, is incomplete.I wont discuss any forward because apparently people are dead set that this system is the best thin ever.To deft ears,

It has nothing to do with English being my second language .You started the convo saying blha blha on core and we had our combos about this same issue before.We know how that ended up.At least i know im not the only one who thinks the current system is a half done system and in great need of improvement.re-read what you said when i was not even talking to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

the Issue isnt the system it is you, Im pretty sure we talked quite a bit about this on core where you stated you had never seen it used nor had you used it. And again you are trying to take the approach of elitist where somehow you have this nagging fear that some idiot is going to join your party and the server is gonna blow up because of it.

People dont PUG NMs, and any idiot can function well in a grind party. This game isn't rocket science not any one person is going to have such a great effect on any group that you have to be so damn picky. Quit trying to use worse case scenarios that will probably never happen as a basis for argument.

---

Put your tone down a bit and ill do the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

Do you really believe everyone who says " this is bad" is because they dont use it .I use it every day and is why i can say is a badly designed mechanic, is incomplete.I wont discuss any forward because apparently people are dead set that this system is the best thin ever.To deft ears,

It has nothing to do with English being my second language .You started the convo saying blha blha on core and we had our combos about this same issue before.We know how that ended up.At least i know im not the only one who thinks the current system is a half done system and in great need of improvement.re-read what you said when i was not even talking to you.

---

read above post

Heya!

This Party Search system is really fine! What it does need is only one icon (for example) near the character figuring that he's gonna recruit. My two cents.

See ya!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

read above post

---

yea if you were not so dead set to talk back to me maybe you would noticed i said this.

"No UI is gonna replace a good conversation with someone to know if he is what your looking for.What if the person that joins is not what im looking for ?Okay you like to get random people to join your party , but what about those who dont want this ?should we suck it .Im gonna say the same i said for the agro indicator .Options and customization is how it should be .If you whant to make parties this way , be my guest. I rather sea and ask in 5 min and decide if its the time or not, then go on with my life and try later instead of wasting my time and those who do join if theres is no garantee we will have a full party."

"Im not saying we should get rid of this system . Im saying we need a flag system or similar .The current system does not give you a lot of freedom while making parties , you dont see what is available .All you can do is wait and hope for the best.
I always took pride on how fast i could make parties in ffxi , in here this function just compromise you to trust other people to join you.

Im fine with whoever whants to use it , but i need more control when making parties .When and how i want them.Giving to much into the "luck" factor that your party might work out okay is something im not a fan off.

yes i am an over control freak."

But yea instead lets call everyone who dont agree with you idiots(not you) and say the problem is me for playing as elitists (you).
Or perhaps is just a personal grudge because i eat kittens for breakfeasts, will never know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

yea if you were not so dead set to talk back to me maybe you would noticed i said this.

"No UI is gonna replace a good conversation with someone to know if he is what your looking for.What if the person that joins is not what im looking for ?Okay you like to get random people to join your party , but what about those who dont want this ?should we suck it .Im gonna say the same i said for the agro indicator .Options and customization is how it should be .If you whant to make parties this way , be my guest. I rather sea and ask in 5 min and decide if its the time or not, then go on with my life and try later instead of wasting my time and those who do join if theres is no garantee we will have a full party."

"Im not saying we should get rid of this system . Im saying we need a flag system or similar .The current system does not give you a lot of freedom while making parties , you dont see what is available .All you can do is wait and hope for the best.
I always took pride on how fast i could make parties in ffxi , in here this function just compromise you to trust other people to join you.

Im fine with whoever whants to use it , but i need more control when making parties .When and how i want them.Giving to much into the "luck" factor that your party might work out okay is something im not a fan off.

yes i am an over control freak."

But yea instead lets call everyone who dont agree with you idiots(not you) and say the problem is me for playing as elitists (you)

---

Even though you pointed it out that I was not the one that called you an idiot you are still using my posts like I was referring to you as such. I did call you elitist because you are. You are treating XIV like it is XI where a majority of the groups in that game were ran be elitist leaders. I'm saying XIV is designed where that attitude is not needed so there is no reason for you to have to worry so much about it. In which you replied by calling me a retard, nice.

Not to mention my above post that I directed you to not only allows you to still be elitist but it also allows for the current system to remain and adds in an auto join system for those that are not so elitist.

Enough he said she said. Take it to a PM because none of us give a hoot. The party system must go! (or be altered..)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

Even though you pointed it out that I was not the one that called you an idiot you are still using my posts like I was referring to you as such. I did call you elitist because you are. You are treating XIV like it is XI where a majority of the groups in that game were ran be elitist leaders. I'm saying XIV is designed where that attitude is not needed so there is no reason for you to have to worry so much about it. In which you replied by calling me a retard, nice.

Not to mention my above post that I directed you to not only allows you to still be elitist but it also allows for the current system to remain and adds in an auto join system for those that are not so elitist.

---

So in the end we agree but we have to call each other idiots for sake of a good discussion? .Is the same thin i was saying before (i admit it) got carried away for the people who keep saying the system fails for lack of information .
perhaps we should drop it, the current system is not great , is incomplete.Is functional , but is far from what it should be .
edit ; Sorry Alexxia (OP) but The current find/setup party system is NOT great

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

So in the end we agree but we have to call each other idiots for sake of a good discussion? .Is the same thin i was saying before (i admit it) got carried away for the people who keep saying the system fails for lack of information .
perhaps we should drop it, the current system is not great , is incomplete.Is functional , but is far from what it should be .
edit ; Sorry Alexxia (OP) but The current find/setup party system is NOT great

---

We agree the system is not perfect and that it needs tweaking, what we dont agree on is that the current system is useless. And I never called you an idiot or referred to you as such.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

We agree the system is not perfect and that it needs tweaking, what we dont agree on is that the current system is useless. And I never called you an idiot or referred to you as such.

---

oh please tell me you start a post " the issue is not the system is you.."and i should not get offended.Do i need to quote you again?You dont need to include the word idiot to show you are treating me as one,even I with my broken english know this.
Anyways im not going to high jack the thread anymore. but one last thin.
In game i dont play as an elitist at all.So please stop categorizing me as one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

oh please tell me you start a post " the issue is not the system is you.."and i should not get offended.Do i need to quote you again?You dont need to include the word idiot to show you are treating me as one,even I with my broken english know this.

---

When I refer to you I refer as in you don't use the system and your posts leave not only me but many to believe you don't know how the system works. There for the issue would be you not the system, people have tried to help you with this and post links to tutorials. Someone else called you an idiot, I had nothing to do with that.

PS: we are not derailing anything this is on topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mega

Enough he said she said. Take it to a PM because none of us give a hoot. The party system must go! (or be altered..)

---

Because you say so?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

Because you say so?

---

Don't be threatened Abagail.

Just because it is too hard to comprehend for you doesnt mean it must go. The current system is wonderful.
It just shifted from "Person trying to from a party has to send a tell to each person he finds LFG and ask them if they want to join" to "Person A opens a Recruitment, Person B finds it using party search and automatically joins with no fuss"

Where is the problem here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mega

Don't be threatened Abagail.

---

I'm actually quite amused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

Just because it is too hard to comprehend for you doesnt mean it must go. The current system is wonderful.
It just shifted from "Person trying to from a party has to send a tell to each person he finds LFG and ask them if they want to join" to "Person A opens a Recruitment, Person B finds it using party search and automatically joins with no fuss"

Where is the problem here?

---

problem is with a party flag+/sea i can know in 1min if there is a chance to make a party or not.
with the current system i can not.
I hope this time i explained myself good enough .

And I have made full parties in less than 3 minutes with the current system. Dunno what server you play on, but you all need to come together and explain the current system to each other, not call for its destruction.

Open Recruitment, make 1 shout saying there is a recruitment (Optional to speed it up), party formed.

No issues on my end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

Just because it is too hard to comprehend for you doesnt mean it must go. The current system is wonderful.
It just shifted from "Person trying to from a party has to send a tell to each person he finds LFG and ask them if they want to join" to "Person A opens a Recruitment, Person B finds it using party search and automatically joins with no fuss"

Where is the problem here?

---

The problem is as follows:

Person A opens recruitment to the party, Person B does NOT find his/her party because Person B doesn't understand the system.

This ends the scenario because Person A cannot communicate in any way with Person B due to there being no system in which Person A actually sees Person B or even knows if they exist.

This of course can be solved by enhancements to the current system.

There is inherently a flaw in the system we have now and this scenario I presented highlights it.

As I said before, if I'm seriously ready to make a party I should be given the tools to make the party myself and not hope against hope that people know how to use the system we have.

I don't doubt your 3 minute party-making abilities however, I honestly believe that your experience is the exception and not the rule.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

And I have made full parties in less than 3 minutes with the current system. Dunno what server you play on, but you all need to come together and explain the current system to each other, not call for its destruction.

Open Recruitment, make 1 shout saying there is a recruitment (Optional to speed it up), party formed.

No issues on my end.

---

is not what ever you did or not.
The problem is you dont know if you are gonna wait 5min or 2h with the current system.
While if you 7sea and see nothing , you know there is or there is not a way to make a party.
Please (not refering to you in particular) people stop being so close minded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaene

The problem is as follows:

Person A opens recuitment to the party, Person B does NOT find his/her party because Person B doesn't understand the system.

This ends the scenario because Person A cannot communicate in any way with Person B due to there being no system in which Person A actually sees Person B or even knows if they exist.

This of course can be solved by enhancements to the current system.

There is inherently a flaw in the system we have now and this scenario I presented highlights it.

As I said before, if I'm seriously ready to make a party I should be given the tools to make the party myself and not hope against hope that people know how to use the system we have.

I don't doubt your 3 minute party-making abilities however, I honestly believe that your experience is the exception and not the rule.

---

Then explain it. Don't wait for SE to do it, they have enough to do as it is.

Person B can see person A, Person A does not need to see or send a tell to Person B.

It isn't flawed, It just isnt like FFXI or WoW or whatnot. Adapt and overcome.

Ah now I am closed minded for being able to comprehend the system in place and quickly form parties with it.

Well have fun complaining.

Allow me to use an analogy to explain to you what you just said to me:

I've been drinking coffee using a mug made by Company X. Now Company X having made mugs before, makes a new mug, out of molten lava (stay with me here) and expects me, the consumer not knowing that this is what the company is now making mugs out of, to use said mug with the same comfort that I have experienced using mugs made by them in the past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

Ah now I am closed minded for being able to comprehend the system in place and quickly form parties with it.

Well have fun complaining.

---

Can you explain to me why is flag and /sea system bad together with this?.
If you like to shout and explain the system to people (assuming they do not know , i know is not the case).
Why should i have to go into those methods in order to make a party , without at least knowing there are in fact people who meets what i need in regards of ,

level,class,skills, Access.Party focus.

You can say you make party in 5 min all you want , but when there are requirements for some aspects of the game, this feature will fall short.You will expend hours looking for people, because you didnt know what the possibilities of making a party was when you started . While with a LFG and /sea you would and then , based on that , take the decision if you "can" make a party or not.

Saying you "always" find people who meets the requirement for your party is completely untrue.
For that time when you cant find people would you rather do a /sea and see the possibilities for a party for your objectives are null or close to 0 and try a different time , or would you rather wait for the "luck" factor someone might see the shouts in the area the shouts reach or see the party search ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

why would you invite dds before you find the most rare classes first ? i think you need to learn how to make parties effectively bro . lol.If you dont see healer or tank available dont bother then and go do somethin else.This isnt any diferent from the current system.At least with flag you KNOW there is nothin avaliable , while with the current system you have NO IDEA WHAT IS..

---

Chill out man, it was just a joke. That's typically what happens with people trying to make a party. Usually pre-50, anyway. If you've honestly never seen that happen in at least Kazham your server must have been pretty nice to level on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zkieve

Anyways , at least there you have control of whats happening . Unlike with the current system you do nothing . You just stand there and hope you get the members.

You keep missing the point of the comparison between the two system for some reason

---

I actually already agreed that we need a new system, so I'm not sure what that's supposed to be referring to.

I didn't figure out how to use the party search feature until January. I know that's sad on behalf of my intelligence, but I also think it is, in part, SE's fault.

It's not exactly the most user-friendly search function.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just be able to search all parties which are forming, and then filter by criteria? Instead of choosing a criteria first and then searching?

I'm on Gysahl and every time I search for a party there's at least half a dozen groups but all Japanese with "LS" appearing somewhere within their text, or just all Japanese text. I've joined one of these parties before that had the right rank level written in numeric characters, but have not been received well as it again was a private party/LS.

Add the ability to use Auto-Translate function within the party details field so that we can overcome language barriers again. In XI I mostly PT'd with Japanese folk cause I'm in Australia and they're 1hr behind me. The language barrier was never really a problem. XIV's addition of enemy and party signs makes it even easier to convey simple battle messages to those of differing language.

There needs to be some kind of party feature within the LS interface, or a way to flag the LS so that only LS members can see the party when searching and non-LS members don't. The party feature should really be exclusively for people that want to party with others. LS's just use it so they don't have to invite everyone manually.

I miss the /sea function. Even when people weren't displaying a party flag in FFXI, you could still look for certain parameters and most of the time, people were willing to join with you when you contacted them or you could make contact with people of certain criteria to seek advice on jobs etc.

The new party function is a good foundation that can be improved and highly useful with some minor changes.