YoshiP “Torn" Over What to do with the Scions (Interview)

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Idk im cool with them putting scions on back burner. Let the twins help garlemald, urianger thancred yoshstola can chill in sharlya as well as krille and let tataru continue her buisness. I would say of this let gra ha come with us. Not as Sharlyian, nor scion, and as an archon but as a simple sellsword like us. Let him come with us on adventuer. We made a promise back on first let us honor that.

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We've already taken him on multiple adventures. We even took him to the end of the universe! How many more do we have to do before one finally counts?

I do like the Scions, all of them really.
But i do agree that some should retire and we need some new Characters instead. :)

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Originally Posted by Fiel_Tana

We've already taken him on multiple adventures. We even took him to the end of the universe! How many more do we have to do before one finally counts?

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idk, he is the only scions that I feel would lightly stroke your back and you are trying to relax by the fire at night. I don't think I would want the one scion I would cover my drink when he walks into the room to be our only companion. He's a bit too creepy in his obsession with us.

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

It's utterly bizarre to me why he says the team is "torn over what to do with the Scions." The answer is right in the game. Just look at how they were handled in the previous expansions?

ARR: Meeting and establishing the Scions, who they are and what they do.

HW: Scions scattered, forced to flee to a new city with only Alphinaud and Tataru with us giving those two time for development....

SB: Shift focus on formerly Yda now Lyse and Alisaie as two Scions we still don't know much about to journey with.........

ShB: We reunite with our lost companions one by one, giving them each a chance to shine and find out what their time on the First has been like.

EW: (should have been two expansions) Started to drop the ball a little here, but we still had some good stuff. First two zones, the Scions split up....

DT: "what do we do with the Scions??" answer: cardboard cutouts with no personalities that barely interact with the new cast. Huh???

What do you mean "what to do with the Scions"?? Do anything but the last one! Cycle them in and out of the spotlight! Have them living their own lives and doing their own thing when not in the party! This isn't difficult!

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As you point out we already have a model for cycling the Scions in and out as needed. We've also been slowly introducing new cast memebers like Estinien Graha and Krile. The story FF14 has greatly benefitted from having an ensemble cast giving the WoL some talented people to interact with as allies. What happens when the WoL doesn't meet people like the Scions? Ardbert is what happens. As annoying and flawed as pre-reformed ARR Alphinaud was, his heart was in the right place and he wasn't secretly working with the Ascians. As for the conundrum of what more they can say about them - this problem still remains even with a new cast. What will they say about them either? Adventurous dedicated people don't normally die at 16 years of age, or stop having adventures even at 35. All they need is a plot to be involved in and some good writing. We just introduced 3 new people (and maybe Erenville as well) - is this really all they have to say about them? Seeing how people reacted to a completely new character like Wuk being center stage at the expense of everyone else I'd think they'd try to make more of what they already have. Personally I like the Scions, especially the older cast members - Yshtola, Urianger, Thancred. I'd miss them in the story.

It would do everyone and I do mean everyone. The devs, the audience the world in universe and the characters that reside within if most of the scions did their own thing for a while. I just don't really *need* anything from most of the narrative. Outside of y'shtola and the twins everyone has completed an arc and should be going on their own adventures. And even then those 3 can have some of that arc off screen. I was excited to see krile get some expansion in this expansion for her to get very little and the scions just standing about.

Allowing us to move on and forge new friendships or giving more depth to previous ones I think would do everyone a lot of good. I personally starting to feel the loss of job stories and all the color and context they added to the world. I dunno. If someone on the dev team still really wants them around, why not pull the trigger on that npc romance thing. It doesn't have to be romance, but i dunno if you really want to update us with what y'shtola and thancred are doing. Having us hang out with them and build rapport would be a good way to do it?

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Originally Posted by Fiel_Tana

We've already taken him on multiple adventures. We even took him to the end of the universe! How many more do we have to do before one finally counts?

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The man literally spent 100 years defending the first. You gonna say a few days worth is good enough. How about many more. I want the man to see sights he couldn't see since he spent 100 years in that dying world. You clearly skipped the msq if you dont remember that much

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Originally Posted by Len_

Did you really never question why Estinien jumped on the bandwagon at the literal last possible second?

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Hey I just want to vent a little bit about this because I'm currently subbed and able to post on the forums so why not? But I just want to express how disgusted I was by Estinien's inclusion into "the Scions." He will never be a "Scion" to me. As a character, he is what he is. I personally never liked him. And it's not because of him, it's really because of how the other characters reacted to him. "Oh my god Estinien doesn't wanna join our group and he just wants to live his life doing whatever he chooses like a normal person....oh my god that's so mysterious and cool it's so based. Did I mention how cool Estinien is? He's not hanging around with us that means he's SO COOL because he just lives his life doing whatever he wants not at our beck and call like a normal freaking person. Omg kyaaaaaa sugoi he's so coooooool."

Maybe simpletons would buy this. It just made me hate Estinien through no fault of his own. Characters telling me how interesting he is instead of being actually interesting. Screw you.

So then in the very last moment possible he decides to actually join up to the cause. Oh wow. I wonder what possiblly brought this on after however long of not giving a flying frick and doing your own thing all thi stime. And it's basically like
>I realized being a cynical sardonic stick in the mud wasn't really doing anything for me. I admire you and Alphinaud. I'll try it you guys' way.

Ok fine, whatever. I buy it for now.

But then you get into EW and what does he do? Stand around brooding on the far end of the room leaning across the wall with his arms crossed while everyone else is huddled around a table trying to figure out how to solve the problem. All he does is act how you would expect a hired mercenary who is there to fill the 8th slot as a melee NPC would act. Because that's literally all he is. He doesn't follow up on his stated motivations for wanting to join the Scions and care about making a difference He stands around seeming bored acting like someone forced him to be there asking "Emet-Selch who?" if he even deigns to take interest at all. The literal only thing he ever contributed to any situation is "Oh are you guys talking about dragons?" I have previoulsy had association with dragons. The end."

I hate Estinien so much.

I want all scions front and center. I love each and every one of them. Thye are established character but that doesnt mean we cant tell great stories with them. The moment Estinien joined the roster made me scream like a little girl. I Really wished Zero could join because she had so much potential to grow and we kinda need melee DPS.
The ones we got in DT is a spit in the soul. No TRUST interaction, no character development / use of already existing ones. They appear in a dT trailer to hype me for a cool adventure only to scramble it all up in the credits scene with vomit infusing song.
DT story 3/10

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

Opposites attract....
All jokes aside, it's been pretty well established since Shadowbringers that the two of them had been around each other the most compared to other Scions... from their time raising Ryne together in Il Mheg to the Eden raids and beyond. I actually think they pair rather well, as they're both more settled down now in their older age and are complements for one another. It's pretty natural for people to get along and not be exactly like their friend/partner. I'm certainly not like my husband, lol.
Estinien has quite the history of working alone unless it's the WoL in an unusual circumstance or when he has a more personal investment (like Vrtra), so if anything him and Thancred pairing up would be the odd thing to see.

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I don't see thancred and urianger going on an adventure as bodyguards, thancred maybe but urianger doesn't suit that at all. If they went together for a different reason such as researching for Sharlyans then yeah I could see it. Enstinen I could see taking up a bodyguard position to get a lay of the land and thancred would probably turn up coincidentally and become the other bodyguard. Wasn't suggesting thancred would seek him out if anything but I really don't see urianger doing this bodyguard stuff as in character, like I could see thancred and yshtola doing that together way more than urianger doing that.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

idk, he is the only scions that I feel would lightly stroke your back and you are trying to relax by the fire at night. I don't think I would want the one scion I would cover my drink when he walks into the room to be our only companion. He's a bit too creepy in his obsession with us.

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You could have a scene where wake up in your inn room and see him rushing out your window with your underwear, some of your hair and your drool, and people would say it's romantic because he's a handsome cat boy.
We lost Papalymo and Yda for this.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

You could have a scene where wake up in your inn room and see him rushing out your window with your underwear, some of your hair and your drool, and people would say it's romantic because he's a handsome cat boy.
We lost Papalymo and Yda for this.

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Maybe it’s just because DT didn’t give enough time to anyone besides wuk Lamat but one thing I do think DT did well is pull back on the “annoying fanboy” aspect of graha and bring back the “wise exarch” persona that was almost entirely missing in 5.4-5.55 and EW except that one scene in raz at Han. Sure you can interpret the gondola scene as a “date” but it has some well written and poignant dialogue and links back to the equally poignant dialogue he gave us in 6.55

Maybe I’m just intentionally shutting out the “UWU romantic catboi” elements because in my headcanon my WOL is married to deryk instead but I feel DT did his character a lot better than EW

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Maybe it’s just because DT didn’t give enough time to anyone besides wuk Lamat but one thing I do think DT did well is pull back on the “annoying fanboy” aspect of graha and bring back the “wise exarch” persona that was almost entirely missing in 5.4-5.55 and EW except that one scene in raz at Han. Sure you can interpret the gondola scene as a “date” but it has some well written and poignant dialogue and links back to the equally poignant dialogue he gave us in 6.55

Maybe I’m just intentionally shutting out the “UWU romantic catboi” elements because in my headcanon my WOL is married to deryk instead but I feel DT did his character a lot better than EW

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Scions miht as well not be present in DT.
As someone said the Twins could be replaced by some random NPC. Urianger might as well stay home. Estinien just doing Estinien things and we can delete that and rubber bullets with not much loss. Shtola appears because....? Raha here to.... eat tacos? or be the only scion (sorry Krile) to go through the gate so Poochie wont be the olny one? Only Thancred did Thancred things by following the kidnappers (we will leave this soty behind lol). And all of them re-united in credit scene with AWFULL song to do *gasp* TRAILER MOMENT!!!!!
And everytime Poochie is not in the scene everyone should ask: "Where is Poochie?"

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

That's one element of DT that amused me: Estinien's presence. Him being in Tural actually felt more natural than the other Scions. Not sure if this was because he didn't have an agenda and just headed that way because (basically) 'why not' but, for me, it worked.
And I almost feel that they should've taken that approach with the Warrior of Light.

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On one hand, I always want more Estinien. On the other hand, Estinien the Spear Cryptid, jumping in to growl a line and then Elusive Jumping away was hilarious and perfect.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

If he really wants to try a story without them, them stop bringing them along like tokens that stand around and do nothing. And don't get me wrong: I love the twins, but I have no idea why they came to Tural.

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The twins should have taken the expansion off to deal with their growth spurts. Let them grow up!

I only want one thing for Duty Support, man.

https://i.imgur.com/ec1oUpT.gif

We only complain that "so and so disappeared" if we don't know where they actually WENT. Y'shtola point blank says, "I am going back to Sharlayan to do research" at many points in the story. Cool! We know where we she is. Thancred says, "I'm going out on a reconnaissance mission." Cool! We know he's out doing neato spy shit.

Even better if they are briefly interactable in the place where they say they are for that point in the story or patch, until they need to be reactivated or rotated back in again.

Yugiri is a great example of introducing a character, giving her a bit of an arc and some development.... and then not having HER be in Mor Dhona during Heavensward except in cutscene form. I woulda liked to let her know I was okay. :(

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

The man literally spent 100 years defending the first. You gonna say a few days worth is good enough. How about many more. I want the man to see sights he couldn't see since he spent 100 years in that dying world. You clearly skipped the msq if you dont remember that much

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It’s an opinion that doesn‘t need such an insult. No skipping needed.

I also agree with them. Where is the line drawn?
His hardcore fans make it pretty clear that they want to date this guy but there are also those of us who just „like“ him and nothing more.

G‘Raha got the afterpatches of Shb, the EW expansion, the beginning of the EW patch series, Myths of the realm and now was the one scion that traveled with us in the second half of DT.

I think he got his adventures.
Graha is a scion that got more adventures than Urianger for example and is close to Thancred.
What more do you want?

Start killing them off.

Is that going to upset people? Absolutely. Good. Make us feel something.

Killing any of them will need competent writing. I dont want to leave any possible big thing or moment like a Scion perishing in the hands of these junior writers.

Other than that. I put Alphinaud in the front to die. I think that will give Alisaie a chance to grow and we can get a bad guy to hate and explore the theme of revenge being toxic etc etc. But to handle it in a nuanced respectful way? We need better writers

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

It’s an opinion that doesn‘t need such an insult. No skipping needed.

I also agree with them. Where is the line drawn?
His hardcore fans make it pretty clear that they want to date this guy but there are also those of us who just „like“ him and nothing more.

G‘Raha got the afterpatches of Shb, the EW expansion, the beginning of the EW patch series, Myths of the realm and now was the one scion that traveled with us in the second half of DT.

I think he got his adventures.
Graha is a scion that got more adventures than Urianger for example and is close to Thancred.
What more do you want?

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It really does seem you are skipping cutscenes, because the promises of adventure we are refering to were done in ULTIMA THULE. We promised him 3 things, in a very emotionally heavy cutscene before his own sacrifice: to go with him to Ishgard, to bring him to the places we lived our adventures, and to go on a new, bigger adventure. None of those were fulfilled - no, Myths of the Realm doesn't count, he was already a cardboard cutout by then AND they never mentioned the promises - it's important that they're mentioned.
Because of how they were included in the game, and how important of a scene it was for him, yes, I do expect the characters to remember and fulfill them, and it IS a problem that they're not being aknowledged in game anymore, not even a "I still remember them!".

THEY WERE, however, mentioned in a planetarium collaboration event in Japan, narrated by him. So that means Ishikawa still remembers them (she was the one that wrote the event), but the new writers didn't play Endwalker, apparently.

Also, I'm very concerned about the amount of people calling him a creepy fanboy. I think you all have been reading too much G'raha fanfic, or it's been a while since you last watched any cutscene with him before Dawntrail. Just try to no confuse headcanon-G'raha to canon-G'raha before criticitzing the character.

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

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You can keep your insult to yourself.
I never skipped a single cutscene in this damn game. It’s just my opinion.

It doesn‘t matter when we promised him. Endwalker WAS an adventure with him.
We also didn‘t promise him those specific things ourselves. That was his own monologue on what HE would love to do. We just nodded and fistbumbed on the topic of „yeah let’s have more adventures together“.

We went to Ishgard with him as short as that was.
What do you want? Taking him to every single place we were before? That would take time of the story and would be incredibly unfair to all the fans of the other scions. It would be favourism towards G‘Raha Tia.
At maximum it could be a sidequest and even then you would need some for the others as well.

Of course Myth of the Realm counts. He was part of that adventure and an adventure it was.
He was in it and played an active role.
We don‘t need a bucket list of „places G‘Raha Tia wants to go.

Again, there are quite a number of people who are not completely into him.
What about them?
What about for example me who would like an adventure with Thancred?
He was a creepy fanboy in some peoples eyes after Shb. That’s just an opinion and has nothing to do with fanfictions.
I think there is a reason why he was toned down with time to what he is now.
A level headed young man that enjoys his time with us. THATS the G‘Raha Tia I like and enjoy. A true companion.

G‘Raha Tia is not the only scion and he ALREADY is coming with us on adventures.
I don‘t want the writers to bend backwards just to give him even more screentime and focus.
He has enough already and doesn‘t need to overshadow the other scions.
I don‘t need another Wuk Lamat.

I want the scions to be sidelined. The writing for them in DT made them feel like brand new characters. I'd honestly rather see them go off and have a happy ending than turn into characters I don't recognise.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

You can keep your insult to yourself.
I never skipped a single cutscene in this damn game. It’s just my opinion.

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Where did I ever insult you? Saying it seems like you skipped cutscenes is not an insult, it's the impression that you are giving me. No need to get defensive. And I'd appreciate if you explained where your opinions came from, else I can just assume.

If the promises aren't mentioned, then we don't get the closure to accept they were fulfilled, so they are still in the open.
And no, I'm not asking for a complete world tour with G'raha in the MSQ for them to be valid - it would be wonderful to have a sidequest with some of them - but I'm saying it's something important that's there in the open, and at least part of it should be aknowledge in respect for that scene and the character.

And that isn't just valid for him, but for every Scion. If they tell me Y'shtola's main goal now is to be able to travel back to the First, I will expect to see it happen in the future, or at least see her efforts to get there along the way.

If they tell me Alisaie and Alphinaud are working hard to restore Garlemald, then I will expect to see some result of their work and how they're doing it, even if not directly all the time, but mentions of it - and more than Dawntrail provided, which was "yeah we're here because Garlemald" and then nothing.

If they tell me Krile is rebuilding the Students of Baldesion with G'raha, I expected to see what that entails, what they're working on. Instead, we just get them organizing a table and not going places because of stuff.

If they're going to write important, meaningful character goals and wishes during very memorable cutscenes, yes, I expect that to be relevant to the characters.

If you can't mention moments he was a "creepy fanboy", then I still can't really consider your opinion, because I can't think of a single moment when that was the case. I'd say his admiration for us is pretty much the same from when he was the Exarch, actually. You should replay Shadowbringers.

I don't think that's the reason he was "toned down", I think it really is just incompetent writing that butchered every Scion. Last time I saw G'raha written correctly was in 6.3 during the Eureka Orthos quest - because it is Ishikawa's writing.
If she didn't "tone him down" during the patches because of people complaining of things that are not there, then no, I don't think they would do it for that reason elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

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Implying I skipped cutscenes because my viewpoint doesn‘t align with yours is so often used as a way to belittle the other opinion. Of course I get defensive.
My opinions are my opinions. I got them from interpreting the story and how I respond to them.
I try my best to explain why I think like that. You decide in the end if that is enough to accept my point of view or not.
I am not trying to change your mind but express my opinion why I think G‘Raha doesn‘t need special treatment.

No we don‘t need him saying „thanks, I can cross this of my list“.
An adventure is an adventure. It doesn‘t have to be the specific ones he wants personally.
Alphinaud and the others also went to adventures with us without confirming it every time.
I talk about the adventure topic and not about Y‘stholas goal with the first and even if than no, some things don‘t need closure on my opinion.
I can believe what Krile does without seeing the result with the students.
If the writers wrote about every single achievement of the scions then we wouldn‘t have much of new stories to tell.
We don‘t need to know everything. For that stuff there exist the short stories they used to post of it is important enough.

Listen, I don‘t say G‘Raha shouldn‘t come with us. What I am saying is that this should be accepted as what it is, an adventure like the stuff before.

Again you imply I didn‘t pay attention to the story in Shb, please stop that.
I found his behavior in Azys La unnerving, how he waited for us while gathering to talk to us in private.
I found his fumbling unnerving when Y‘sthola gave her shiptease but I also find Alisaie creepy in those scenes. (Just two examples)

Granted he mellowed down and I grew fond of him as he is since 6.55.
How is he written wrong now?
He is a guy with deep thoughts because of his experience and not a new adventurer that looks in awe at the WoL.
He still has fun with his new life but he grew up to become the seasoned and wise man he actually is.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

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How is showing admiration towards someone creepy? The game doesn't force your character to reciprocate, the character does their thing and it's up to you how you react, specially in every situation that you mentioned there.
Y'shtola teases G'raha in 5.4 about wanting to go with us, and your character just stands there, and you can interpret that as you wish. He wants to talk to you in private to thank you, and you can actually pick an option that scolds him for doing so. Yes, he admires you and cares about you as a friend, just like Alisaie and all of the Scions, but each has a different way to demonstrate it.

I'd be more disappointed if they did it because of haters. It would be very unconsiderate towards fans of a character to change how they behave, specially because it's not the majority that thinks so. Imagine if a loud minority decided they hate Erenville because he's introverted, and then next patch he is very talkative without any development to ease him there? They could very well decide they wanted him that direction, but that had to be a gradual development, and not just ignore who he was before.

No character will ever be beloved by everyone, but every character should stay consistent. And consistent writing is something that is greatly missing from this game right now.

And, again, if the story is going to present me some very meaningful thing about a character, ANY CHARACTER in a very important scene, then yes, that should be addressed if the character is to keep appearing. G'raha's biggest wish is to go on adventures with us - one specifically even mentioned Ishgard. When I see him immediately turning down adventure, not caring about being in one and not even mentioning saying such things, it's bad writing, it's out of character - it's not toning down. And also, you seem to be reducing your memory of actually-well-written G'raha to the 2 or 3 moments you can think of when he is a little more enthusiastic about us, but please don't forget him during the entirety of Endwalker as well. It was a very nice balance between his younger self, happy to be in an adventure, while being wise and acting accordingly to the situation.

When he offered to stay behind in 6.55, knowing how the game told me leaving on one would be MEANINGFUL to him, I imagined he would have a really good reason not to go. It's not about giving him any kind of special treatment or more screentime, it's just respecting his motivations and wishes as a character, and making it consistent. Instead, it was just a very weak excuse to not have him there in the first part, and treat his arrival as cheap fanservice later.

If by your logic they don't have to aknowledge the things the characters want to do and their motivations, they why mention any at all? Just keep writing them like they did in DT - yes men NPC to the current main character. That's what they are now, and I can't imagine you're happy with it either.

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

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You answered yourself. I choose how to react to it and for me I am unnerved by that because I generally don‘t like it if people are too personal too fast or stare at me in awe especially if they have proven to be just as good like me.

I gave you examples of what I found unnerving. You can choose to see that different and like it if G‘Raha gushes over your character but I don‘t.
Alisaie and G‘Raha sometimes come over as more than just written as friends and more as trying to force a love interest onto my character and handwaving it as „you can interpret it as whatever you want“.
My character is her own person and important to me. That’s why I like if they give me dialogue choices from time to time.

Of course they shouldn’t change characters because of haters but they have to consider feedback.
G‘Raha was mellowed down a bit and as a result grew on me.
I haven’t read many complaints about how he is now. So I think he is in a good balanced spot right now. Close but not overbearing.
Did they do it because of feedback or because that’s what they always envisioned? I don‘t know and tbh I don‘t really care.
But for me it is a natural growth in personality for him.

You move the goalpost. I only mentioned two examples because you wanted examples.
I won‘t give more. That would be unneeded because we have completely different viewpoints than of that character.

Him staying behind in 6.55 was actually very in character in my opinion.
Krile wanted to learn about her past but didn‘t want to leave the students behind so G‘Raha took care of it.
Putting others well-being over his own is consistent with his character. He was sad about it but did it nonetheless.
That was the scene were he got my respect.
In the end she went with us anyway so I don‘t see the problem. He was a central part of the second half of the DT story.

Your last point is spinning my viewpoint.
No I don‘t want the DT characterization. That’s a hyperbole.
I am saying not every little thing needs to be addressed in the MSQ. I even gave sidequests and sidestories as a solution.
I want new stories and not seeing Krile rebuild the students or seeing Thancred gathering information in a marketplace.
It’s fine if they do it outside of our view and we see the results or maybe a echo flashback.
I don‘t even have a problem with spending time with them here and there but I don‘t want a bucket list with their names on it we have to go through.
What’s after we did the things with him you listed? Do we bench him him then or get a new list? Where is the finish line?
Do we spend eternity with G‘Raha as our new travel companion next to our Chocobo?

All I am saying is that those things should be natural.
The scions can have their own adventures and that road can and should cross with ours here and there.
But I don‘t want any of them in my face 24/7.
That’s what Wuk Lamat did and even my favorite characters would become annoying.

Honestly, I think they should retire them.

The perfect opportunity would have been at the end of 5.3, after they returned to the Source.

They didn’t do that.

The next opportunity was at the end of EW with the 6.x patches giving them a final hurrah.

They didn’t do that either.

Now we’re stuck with a cardboard cutout of them. Where do they go from here? Will they all be some “chosen” ones that have a super secret and ambiguous past?
Do we drag them along for the same character beats?
Will they just be present just like in DT from here on out?

What are we going to do with them? Most of them have gone through their arc.
Keeping them around for much longer will detract from new characters. They will face no real challenges because we have the dream team of experts who can solve everything.

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

THEY WERE, however, mentioned in a planetarium collaboration event in Japan, narrated by him. So that means Ishikawa still remembers them (she was the one that wrote the event), but the new writers didn't play Endwalker, apparently.

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Really? I mean I guess I don’t expect all the writers to actually play the game. But you’d think it would be important for them to at least read the MSQ scripts or watch the cutscenes from the prior expansions if they’re going to be carrying such a long running story forward! Especially ShB & EW… just because it’s the start of a new story doesn’t mean they don’t need to know all that stuff! lol

Replying to the original OP - It would be cool if the WoL found themselves somewhere cut off from their support system entirely. This means the Scions and any other allies.

It is true the WoL is a beast among beasts but it is also true we rely heavily upon our allies. Seeing the WoL start from scratch again and creating a new support team to deal with issues you can't just punch in the face, that would be a lot of fun. It let's the WoL retain their strength (we aren't doing that old trope of we lose all our power) but because we can't just power through everything it helps remind the WoL how much they truly depend on the supports.

Could end that xpac's MSQ by having the WoL "lose". Perhaps the thing we're trying to defend is a city that falls because the new supports we got weren't strong enough to defend themselves while we were out dealing with the big bad who was actually just a distraction to get us away from the city.

Post-MSQ could be one of the surviving supports helping us get back into contact with the Scions(or if it is the 13th we could ally with old foes who we opt to unseal like Barbara) so we can work together to take down the true big bad and get revenge for our new (dead) friends.

Clearly they found the answer. What to do with the scions? give them better eyelashes .

How are the scions supposed to be in the background when Alisae Alphinaud and Krile are stuck to our hips every waking moment.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

How are the scions supposed to be in the background when Alisae Alphinaud and Krile are stuck to our hips every waking moment.

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The twins I get, but Krile? The one who's been shoved off into side stories or put on a bus in every expansion until Dawntrail, and then didn't really do much there anyway?

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

How are the scions supposed to be in the background when Alisae Alphinaud and Krile are stuck to our hips every waking moment.

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The same way they "disbanded" at the end of EW.

Fix Thancreds face & revert it back to his original face.
And let me romance him- there, fixed

Just hire better writers, then it wouldn't matter what you decide to do with them.

Common Yoshi, it's not that hard. Pay for quality and you'll get quality, as simple as that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't shtola supposed to be dying cuz she went into midstream or am I misremembering?

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

Fix Thancreds face & revert it back to his original face.
And let me romance him- there, fixed

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Make Thancred hot again! lol

Here's my concern with them removing the scions - we get a team of absolute lame losers to replace them; example - Guild Wars 2.

I don't think there's any issue with keeping the scions as our team. I agree that they should be used to their strengths and not just thrown in for memorable faces. I also think adding team members was a great idea, because it was incredibly successful in the past; Yugiri, Gosetsu, Hien, Hauchefant, Crystal Exarch, Lyna, and the list goes on. So far, the only addition that has made me terrified of them trying to add new team members has been Wuk Lamat. Love her or hate her, her character has been impossible to disassociate with controversy in Dawntrail.

What to do with scions? Depends on who's going to write their replacements; competent writers that want to build an exciting story that supports our WoL, grows with failures and successes and has a few fun quips in between; sure let the old team retire and some newbies show us what they got. The writing team that is responsible for Dawntrail? Please no... they didn't know how to handle the scions or a new addition so I've no idea.

Personally I feel the Scions should become class ambassadors. The reality is they DO have fandoms and people like them but generally not ALL of them. So I would...you know bring back ACTUAL class quests that would involve developing those Scions alongside the WoL. Then you can begin to bring in new characters into the MSQ without having beloved characters standing around like card-board cut outs in m1s.

Kill Thancred. I'm not kidding. Not only is he boring as sh!t, he was obviously supposed to die in Shadowbringers with the whole Ryne thing. After getting his ass beat and he's laying on the ground he literally says "sayonara"--you don't say that unless you're not going to see someone for a long, long time. He was clearly going to die! He just doesn't really contribute much to the plot anymore much like Yshtola. Yshtola is still a cardboard cutout. She has no motivation for being in the Scions, we still don't know why she's faking her age, what her real relationship to Matoya is, what her sister is doing, and it's all because the writers fake-kill her every expansion. I seriously don't get why she's the poster girl for this game when she has nothing going for her.

I get the perspective that whoever we replace the Scions with might be total losers. But let's be honest, the Scions have had no reason to be around for about 2-3 expansions now. All of their arcs are resolved (or didn't even have one--looking at you, Yshtola) and now all they do is just repeat current objective like parrots. It would be nice to see Alisaie and Alphinaud actually grow up which would open up new opportunities for development.