Frontlines: Leechers and Feeders

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I've never played SGE in FL, but based on those numbers, it looks like the biggest skill is positioning.

---

Positioning is the key skill, yes.

If you position badly, you simply die and do no damage, or worse, you do nothing. It is not an easy skill, but it is a skill you do have to learn one way or another. Unfortunately, there really is no way to teach that unless you want to learn it yourself, which filters out basically everyone who hasn't played PvP games a decent amount, MMO or otherwise. It is very easy to tunnel vision then you suddenly have 24 people deciding you're alone while your team has gone off somewhere else.

There is cheeky stuff people can do even if you do manage to position well, or see a good engage, like Warriors deciding to 'help' you by dragging you even further into their team than what you would want for instance.

Oh yeah, you can do well on almost any job by knowing proper positioning.

Well actually, I'd argue that's only a third of the equation necessary to do well. The other two are job knowledge and target priority.

Job knowledge is everything from you knowing what your own buttons do to knowing what everything else is capable of. This one is slightly more crucial than the other two, because it dictates you knowing what your bursts are and when and how to do them and what behaviors and tricks to expect enemies to try when engaging them. Even if you're savvy on what your own job does, if you don't know what SAM's Chiten buff looks like, know what DRK and PLD's "unkillable" icon is on their status bar, or that you shouldn't allow yourself sit at under 50% HP because NINs exist, you're- well, to borrow someone else's terminology from around here, a "net negative."

Time and time again I have seen people still compelled hit lone, suicidal SAMs who popped their Chiten buff, when by now that should be identified as obvious LB bait. I have seen MCHs let off raw LBs on full-HP targets or worse, PLDs and DRKs in the middle of their LB or people floating in their bubble. Every day I see people attempt to simply run back out of a DRK draw-in instead of utilizing their Guard 1st. Just learning what these jobs do and what their buffs mean would help, but I guess it's easier to just jump on the Official Forums and complain about how broken SAM and NIN's LBs are instead of learning the criteria they have to meet.

Target priority is pretty self explanatory, but separates the 0/5/xs from the 5/0/xxs. Melee jobs (even tanks, especially tanks) have a defense bonus modifier. Technically everything does, but most ranged DPS and healers are the baseline, so everything else has "more." You should be looking for exposed and out-of-position ranged DPS and healers to attack, not slamming your face into a RPR or DRG that will take more GCDs and thus time and effort to kill because you're too lazy to switch targets. Whatever it takes you to kill a tank or melee DPS, a ranged DPS would have been dead long before. Unless your entire alliance is dogpiling a melee enemy, chances are it will survive upwards of half-a-dozen people hitting it (especially if Battle High isn't a factor) and use their movement skills to lose you and heal-up. Meanwhile, their own ranged DPS have free reign to whittle you down without repercussions.

Which is why effort expended on PLDs and DRKs sitting with their fingers over their LBs will always be wasted. Unless they are one of the last retreating targets, they will be fulfilling their job as a tanky distraction while easier-to-kill enemies will converge on you and your own teammates. Frontlines is a numbers game. The team that culls the others' numbers faster will almost always come out on top. Take out the targets that die faster.

And then there's Positioning. Most jobs within a role have an effective range, with a few deviations for things like DNC or NIN. Obviously ranged DPS want to be at a range, while melee DPS usually need to (and can easily) get up-close. With the last tidbit about target priority in mind, naturally an out-of-position ranged or healer is an easy and enticing target. Those SMNs, SGEs and WHMs mindlessly using their jump-ins? Easier kill than the DRK, WARs and RPRs you're playing footsies with. If your jobs has a jump-in or skill that requires you to be exposed, you better make sure you use it with the intention of ending your target or have an escape plan.

If you're playing a ranged job, obviously you want to surround yourself with as many other teammates as possible to A) prevent yourself from being easily targeted, and B) so you have the support of numbers to dissuade people from rushing in to get to you. If you are playing things like MCH and BRD, you shouldn't be at the front of your group in an engagement unless you're confident enough about your ability to disengage and survive a sudden focus on you. This is why teams that are overpopulated with healers and ranged DPS and only a handful of melee jobs tend to get stomped: you have no frontline to stand behind. One or two tanks and melee DPS jumping-in and leading a charge against you, and your team is instantly on the backfoot trying to create space (ie: retreating).

All 3 are important. If you neglect job knowledge, then target priority and positioning won't help you actually function decently in a fight, not when you're slapping DRKs and PLDs with their invincible LB up and getting floored by a low-skilled SAM. If you neglect target priority, then enjoy not killing anything until you're eventually outnumbered & overrun. If you neglect positioning, then good job knowledge and target priority might help you secure kills, until you are dogpiled on for the 5th time and you never stay above maybe Battle High 1.

Wow, okay, that turned into a impromptu guide. Only because I was bored and waiting for maintenance to finish. But knowing those 3 things usually is enough to at least not be dead weight in any FL match.

Target prio very importante indeed. Ranged typically have lower defense lower hp and less defensives easy targets. for me at least I know the game does not give you this info unless you play more then 1 job(which more ppl should in pvp everyone should practice multiple jobs) to get better. one of my more notable moves is dive with w/e group is in the mix and If i see a brd or a stray healer try to get close instantly hop on them put that pressure on it tends to work out more then not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enjuden

I played Sage maybe once when EW came out in PVP. I didn't use my LB very much in this match but didn't really know where to place it, so I left it alone outside of one use. This match is easily as bad as Frontline used to be when it was full premade or lose. The idea is to hit toxikon on your main target, then once that is down, hit as much of the group as you can. Sage is admittedly pretty hard to do without a second person, but it can be done so long as you don't recklessly use Icarus. What I mean by reckless uses is to always have two charges when you go in, so you can leave immediately after baiting damage onto you with guard. Still, even with the worst case scenario, you can still get over 500k if you play well.

Any other jobs? I do not play Sage at all in PvP, but it was pretty fun to figure it out during this match, and likely can be a bit more optimal with damage. Even in the worst case scenario, you still can contribute with the metric I had so long as you play smart.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...358c1d72f080d&

---

My numbers came out to:

SGE: 1-7-7 264k
BLM: 7-1-14 381k
PLD: 0-2-15 256k
WAR: 1-2-23 221k

My biggest surprise was that on BLM I got more kills, less deaths, and a few less assists, yet only did a quarter of the damage you put out.
I noticed you were in Onsal while I did my numbers in Shatter. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Your numbers are impressive. I'd love to see you write some sort of guide. That's what us newbies need, more guidance on solo strategies that don't involve "join a premade."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaiinahat

My numbers came out to:

SGE: 1-7-7 264k
BLM: 7-1-14 381k
PLD: 0-2-15 256k
WAR: 1-2-23 221k

My biggest surprise was that on BLM I got more kills, less deaths, and a few less assists, yet only did a quarter of the damage you put out.
I noticed you were in Onsal while I did my numbers in Shatter. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Your numbers are impressive. I'd love to see you write some sort of guide. That's what us newbies need, more guidance on solo strategies that don't involve "join a premade."

---

I can try to, though I'm definitely not the best when it comes to these things. If you want me to take a guess as to why the numbers are like that on Black Mage, you are likely focusing too much on Ice spells rather than Fire. I focus on Damage over Time with Fire, as Ice stun/root is too predictable and generally not worth it. I will see if someone else wrote a guide first before doing so, as Frontline is rather old, and I'm sure someone had already.

For Shatter, I think the damage numbers can be lessened to a degree because you're mostly doing pve content anyway in that mode, and you're really only doing damage to other players accidentally for the most part. It is very rare for people to focus on PvP in that mode unless you're trying to deny small ice points, or simply have nothing better to do and your team just wants to go after a particular team on big for whatever reason.

https://i.imgur.com/8cXtKdM.png

This is one of my Black mage runs

I don't have any currently saved of warrior but I'll throw a match up when I have time to do one.

Black mage is all about smashing people with fire and putting dots on them. The electrical burst doesn't hurt and it puts a shield on you but I wouldn't be breaking formation to do it cause BLM is a massive prio target.
The BLM Ice I use on enemies that are running away, or in a choke point. If we're outnumbered, setting an AoE Bind/Stun on a lot of people will force their natural reaction to back up or disengage. BLM does best when the melee and Tanks are playing aggressive and not cowering behind the ranged.

There is really no point in doing guides since all the jobs are going to change in 7.1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archeron

https://i.imgur.com/8cXtKdM.png

This is one of my Black mage runs

I don't have any currently saved of warrior but I'll throw a match up when I have time to do one.

Black mage is all about smashing people with fire and putting dots on them. The electrical burst doesn't hurt and it puts a shield on you but I wouldn't be breaking formation to do it cause BLM is a massive prio target.
The BLM Ice I use on enemies that are running away, or in a choke point. If we're outnumbered, setting an AoE Bind/Stun on a lot of people will force their natural reaction to back up or disengage. BLM does best when the melee and Tanks are playing aggressive and not cowering behind the ranged.

There is really no point in doing guides since all the jobs are going to change in 7.1

---

Let's hope. Plus Icy Veins gives a pretty good baseline.

this part of the game has always been a dumpster fire and will always be that way i stay away from this mess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archeron

There is really no point in doing guides since all the jobs are going to change in 7.1

---

Are we certain that everything's changing? I'd assume that it's a safe bet that PCT and VPR will completely change since they only have a placeholder kit right now with some glaring flaws, but there's no guarantee that they won't just slap the new buttons onto the current kit of the other jobs and do nothing much else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aravell

Are we certain that everything's changing? I'd assume that it's a safe bet that PCT and VPR will completely change since they only have a placeholder kit right now with some glaring flaws, but there's no guarantee that they won't just slap the new buttons onto the current kit of the other jobs and do nothing much else.

---

If that happens I may be done with PvP.

I have the worst luck with frontlines. Usually in the worst group and it's so lopsided. Group just feeds the lead group constantly and we lose more points than we gain. Also have had tons of premades lately. I'm so sick of FL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aravell

Are we certain that everything's changing? I'd assume that it's a safe bet that PCT and VPR will completely change since they only have a placeholder kit right now with some glaring flaws, but there's no guarantee that they won't just slap the new buttons onto the current kit of the other jobs and do nothing much else.

---

Based on the promise they made during a live letter of "Adding new actions" and "Adjusting currently existing actions" It's impossible to know what will come of that, whether its just adding a new action to an existing job or a total rework of the job and how it functions. They're plenty known for making uneccesary/unwanted changes to certain jobs (Bard anyone?) I expect the same to occur. All we have so far are vague promises from Live letters and interviews. I wouldn't make a guide on anything until it becomes clear what exactly they are bringing us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterNublet

You really came back for seconds after your last asinine post?

I can give you ample time to delete this post if you like because it's just as dumb as when you were comparing gear to player participation in a duty.

I'll even do ya a favor and delete this post too once yours is gone.

---

I am getting a feel that person is actually a leech king and is trying to gaslight people who try to raise awareness regarding the issue

Playing PLD, see a teammate who's less than half HP and dropping. Okay, I'll save them with Cover. Cover + Guard successfully keeps them alive... and they keep blindly mashing buttons at the enemy team. Still at less than 50% HP; No attempts at healing. After the entire duration of Cover wears off, they die. Not once did they try to run away. Same thing happens 2 minutes later with ANOTHER person in my party. Why? Are you just turning off your brain for the daily EXP bonus? To level up alt jobs you will never play? I don't get it. Why ruin the game for everyone else for a pointless reward?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Router

Playing PLD, see a teammate who's less than half HP and dropping. Okay, I'll save them with Cover. Cover + Guard successfully keeps them alive... and they keep blindly mashing buttons at the enemy team. Still at less than 50% HP; No attempts at healing. After the entire duration of Cover wears off, they die. Not once did they try to run away. Same thing happens 2 minutes later with ANOTHER person in my party. Why? Are you just turning off your brain for the daily EXP bonus? To level up alt jobs you will never play? I don't get it. Why ruin the game for everyone else for a pointless reward?

---

They clearly believe half a level of XP is well worth 12 minutes of mashing buttons. And the argument given here for why such players must be tolerated is that, without them, there would be no FL.

Being rewarded for participation alone has forever been the bane of PvP. Unfortunately the incentive to learn PvP has remained zero since the dinosaurs.

My dying wish since Heavensward was to only award the winning team anything but thats a dream that more than likely will never come to reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rinku421

Being rewarded for participation alone has forever been the bane of PvP. Unfortunately the incentive to learn PvP has remained zero since the dinosaurs.
My dying wish since Heavensward was to only award the winning team anything but thats a dream that more than likely will never come to reality.

---

I think it is GC restriction prevents leechers and feeders
It is still a closed circle even players can move between GCs
Everyone will knows their GC members better than this current random crap
The people pulled this stunt usually get purged by votekick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

I think it is GC restriction prevents leechers and feeders
It is still a closed circle even players can move between GCs
Everyone will knows their GC members better than this current random crap
The people pulled this stunt usually get purged by votekick

---

I remember when Onsal first released all the veterans/premades stacked on adders and absolutely steam rolled lool. Then GC restrictions were implemented along with allowing only light party premades.

It’s crazy to me people complained about “losing” back then but now people are apathetic about winning at all cause “just here for daily lawl”. This community sometimes is honestly why we cant have nice things.

What if 1st place got a full level, 2nd place a third of a level and 3rd place half a level?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annihilism

What if 1st place got a full level, 2nd place a third of a level and 3rd place half a level?

---

Rewards for 2nd and 3rd place should be the same. No one wants to see 2nd place teams attacking 3rd place to "secure" their higher reward.

Well, at least SE clearly will action on reports against the leechers:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...stomer-support

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I mean, I'm struggling here to think of any game with PVP that punishes players for losing, because that's exactly what people here are advocating for, giving anyone who came in 2nd and 3rd place a 12+ minute lashing for the crime of not being 1st. With that degree of hostility, and the very real waste of time it objectively creates for 48 people, yeah... Frontline queues would likely slow down pretty hard as the lowest rung stops bothering to show up because there's literally no incentive to do so, and where a lot of people in the highest rung, ironically, would also stop queuing because they can't do their own brand of blood-sucking anymore.

...Or maybe the premades *do* stay, but then that raises a very concerning question; Who are they staying to feed on now? Oh but I'm sure the ones wanting zero rewards being implemented have a peerless 90%+ winrate and that's why they're confident that they'll rarely, if ever, be subjected to any sort of loser penalty and absolutely would not be the new littlest fish in the pond. Nah, we got complete badasses over here.

Sarcasm aside, shaking up the current Frontline "eco-system" in this particular way *will* have consequences, and not necessarily positive ones for those who stuck around as a new pecking order gets quickly established, but now the ones at the bottom don't even get the courtesy of a consolation prize while they get bodied for hours on end.

There should be more incentive to make people stay and do better, not leave and never come back, but even dynamic rewards based on performance has issues, especially when we have premades forcing matches to end early before most people have a chance to contribute in any meaningful way.

Ugh, I hate not having a solution to poormade and premade antics, as it seems like you can't fix either without causing new problems.

---

I haven't really played any PvP that hasn't "punished' people for losing, generally winners got "more"- it could have been rank, it could have been items - such as chests to open, it could have been points that allowed the winners to get items. Key difference there, the first being the most important- (1) people wanted to PvP (2) there were typically a variety of types of matches.

I don't advocate for giving whomever places 2nd or 3rd nothing, however I don't see why just showing up means that someone should get rewards. This isn't an exact equivalent, but I've been in a games where it was possible for people to get no rewards an hour in a PvP siege (large scale battle) - basically due to the large number of people participating, the max number of rewards, and their kills and/or damage. Well, after that happens once or twice, motivated people learn quickly so that it doesn't happen again.

All of this to say, I would expect performance could be used here. You're also referring to " they get bodied for hours on end" - I wouldn't know. I don't queue for hours on end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

That sort of system wouldn't motivate the losers to keep trying, it'd encourage them to stop queuing because they literally wasted 15+ of their time that could have been spent doing anything else

---

I'm failing to see how that's a bad thing. SE would see that there's barely any motivation to play Frontlines, they'd add back 8v8v8, and there's considerably more incentive to co-ordinate with your team when there's only 7 other party members, there's only 16 enemies, your PS4 isn't lagging from trying to load in over 40 "graphically updated" players at once, and you don't get any tomestones when you lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

we likely don't have the numbers to sustain variant modes of Frontlines

---

If Daily Challenge: Frontline was kept as 72man and hard queuing into Frontline gave you 24man, there would be over 3 times the number of 24man runs going on than 72man ones. The only people who actually prefer 72man to 24man are leechers and the premades that eat them up.

Unpopular opinion: Bring back GC teams (please don't take me serious on this one. I already know why it needed to go xD).

Between then and now I don't think much has changed. Back then people did play for the win. However, when it came to those that only care about the reward they more than likely took the easy route and joined the most dominating team for 'easy' wins. Just a thought.

If I end up in a match that feels horribly skewed (it happens quickly, when it is), I just blame my bad luck and hope in a better match tomorrow. :)

It seems to me that the simple answer is just to remove normal XP from PvP and completely separate the game modes, you can't really complain about people joining PvP and half-assing it when the developers have enticed people in with a conflicting interest.

By tying such a huge chunk of our daily bonus XP to a PvP roulette activity, they aren't enticing PvP players in, they're enticing levelling players in, their goal was never to play PvP rank up and earn PvP rewards in the first place, it was always to level their characters.

The developers do it to pad the queue because realistically they know the game mode sucks and would have horrendous queue times otherwise.

Sure, they could offer XP rewards based on how well players did, but you aren't just penalizing lazy players with that move, you're also disincentivizing new players who need time to actually learn, and christ do they need time given how awful the new player pvp experience is.

Changing rewards based on winning is all well and good if PVP in this game actually had balance amd skill instead of DRK/DRG gang bang. CC is decent but frontlines is a mess and always will be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grumblecakes

Changing rewards based on winning is all well and good if PVP in this game actually had balance amd skill instead of DRK/DRG gang bang. CC is decent but frontlines is a mess and always will be.

---

That may be true in practice, but I'd suggest that would reflect lack of effort on the part of the devs rather than something intrinsic to the concept.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

Unpopular opinion: Bring back GC teams (please don't take me serious on this one. I already know why it needed to go xD).

---

Not unpopular. Bring it back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramiren

The developers do it to pad the queue because realistically they know the game mode sucks and would have horrendous queue times otherwise.

---

I know it won't solve the issue but I wonder if reducing the three factions to 8v8v8 versus 24v24v24 could help to make the whole scope of the mode more realistic so that it doesn't need (as much) padding.
I understand the appeal of the mode's "big battle" feeling but at the same time sometimes (esp. if there is no good lead) it feels really chaotic and random. It's basically just "focus the nearest player down" without much thinking/tactical calculating and coordination going on, when big clouds of players smash into each other. 8v8v8 does not have the same level of epicness but in addition to shorter/easier queues it might allow for coordination and team work to more strategic.

Either way, I just really miss some more content for smaller teams. "Push the crystal" is a nice game mode but you could do so much more. I'd love to play "seize the flag"/"win the check point" or even "protect the payload" with smaller groups and perhaps more than two factions.

An obvious problem with forcing it to go back to 8v8v8 is that individual skill level is multiplied exponentially in importance.

Let's say that you have 3 people in your team in current FL who don't understand how to survive a dive/burst, that would mean 3/24 die and you still have 21/24 people to launch a counterattack. Now imagine you get those same 3 people in 8v8v8, that's the equivalent of 9 people dying, so now those 3 players are having a far larger negative impact on the team by simply being of lower skill/experience.

This could end up discouraging players that are new to the mode even more, because they cover a larger part of the team and so they contribute more (negatively or positively).

I forgot to add I'd also remove an 8v8v8 fight from the exp roulette to make sure only those who are actively interested in PvP seek it out.

I'm not sure I really agree with your point re: inexperienced players though. In my experience this is a problem in all kinds of games with competitive play. In a 5v5 having 2-3 inexperienced players can easily cost you a game.
I don't think getting stomped in CC is less frustrating than potentially getting stomped in an 8v8v8. And yet I wouldn't say having this mode is futile, even though you could argue such a game mode might turn off newer players more because their responsibility for a team loss is even greater. In the end everybody has to start somewhere and as soon as you mix inexperienced players with experienced players there will always be "unfair" games where one team has particularly good or bad players.


That doesn't prevent people from coming back and learning though if the mode is fun enough.
When I started out CC some years ago I was so overwhelmed I was a walking instant target because I had never PvPed before but the game mode was still fun enough for me to keep trying.
(Though I have to add, CC not having a chat function did help a lot to remove a lot of that nervousness as a PvP sprout.)

I think if an 8v8v8 game mode is designed properly and has some good initiations for newer players it could work.

One thing that overwatch is doing quite well for example is having training matches against AI teams with varying diffulty.
You could in theory also have such a "training" mode in the duty finder where 8 players can play practice matches against AI parties.

I know this is the most unrealistic part because the devs would never I guess.
But in principle I think this could be a workable solution.

As someone who really enjoys frontlines and sinks a majority of my playtime into it, 72 players is just way too much going on. Obvious imbalances aside... The servers are not designed to constantly receive that much info that quickly and it definitely shows. Let's be honest... Frontlines is just a clusterfuck of bullshit all the time. Because that's what happens when you let 72 players have access to individual limit breaks and crowd control with a single button to respond to said crowd control lol. You don't have to be good at math to realize that's a recipe for disaster.

I'd much rather see the total player number toned down. I think new smaller modes with groups of 5 would be tons of fun (5 different jobs per team like CC). 5v5v5 or even adding a 4th team for 20 players so it's much more reliant on what YOU are doing, than what a team of 24 ISN'T doing. It also keeps the balance of Crystalline Conflict somewhat in tact. Some style of capture the flag would be incredibly fun. Teams fighting over a singular objective that needs to be brought back to their base to score points. Rework seize to be a king of the hill mode where you have to stay and defend a ring to increase your points. The other teams actively try to push you out and fight to stay in the ring as well (The current Onsal Hakair middle objective basically lol). I'd also remove EXP being utilized in these modes in exchange for a new exp item that could be bought with wolfmarks. That fixes exp for both Crystalline Conflict and the new modes that you can't change jobs inside of so you could still get the exp on whatever you are trying to level, while playing a job you are familiar with for the actual PvP. Win/win.

Now that the Moogle Tomestone event is back, almost every match has more than half a dozen "players" with less than 50k damage and 0-1 assist. "Just here for the tomes/exp lol"

So damn tiring having to fill out multiple reports after every match because of these leeches because I play multiple matches a day across multiple characters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Now that the Moogle Tomestone event is back, almost every match has more than half a dozen "players" with less than 50k damage and 0-1 assist. "Just here for the tomes/exp lol"

So damn tiring having to fill out multiple reports after every match because of these leeches because I play multiple matches a day across multiple characters.

---

It'd be nice if this leads to FL not being featured in future mogtome events. Lethargic play really has gotten completely out of hand.

How improve FFXIV PvP (FL) with 4 simple steps:

- Remove BH (battle high) from FL
- Only have 2 teams! ( get rid of the 3rd)
- Remove ALL CC
- Rework some of weaker jobs,
some jobs in PvP is straight up so **** bad
that they're basically griefing your party just by existing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeastria

How improve FFXIV PvP (FL) with 4 simple steps:

- Remove BH (battle high) from FL
- Only have 2 teams! ( get rid of the 3rd)
- Remove ALL CC
- Rework some of weaker jobs,
some jobs in PvP is straight up so **** bad
that they're basically griefing your party just by existing.

---

GO play Rivalwing, it has all of that.
The fact it is not popular, whether there roulette bonus or not.
It is on life support by Discord event and Moogle Charm

Remove third team is dumbest idea ever.
The losing will never be able to counter the winning team.

There aren't actually any jobs in PvP that are so bad that playing it is griefing your team, it's mostly just people playing them badly.

That said, VPR is a job that negatively affects your party indirectly if you do play it, because a very good VPR player can contribute way more by playing basically any other melee.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

GO play Rivalwing, it has all of that.
The fact it is not popular, whether there roulette bonus or not.
It is on life support by Discord event and Moogle Charm

Remove third team is dumbest idea ever.
The losing will never be able to counter the winning team.

---

Man CC must really be the worst mode ever introduced to the game by that logic, as well as like 90% of PvP games being absolute trash. If only they knew they needed a third team to magically make the game vastly more playable and enjoyable. /s

If you play it as a distraction tank, leading enemies away from larger pulls, it's actually sick.

But that's just me enjoying zoner tech more than playing the game. Maybe it'll get some new tools in 7.1.