Yoshi P - Your next live letter, DT msq and the damage to the brand

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

DT being "The start of a new story arc" doesn't justify badly written characters and badly written stories.

The entire first half of the expansion, the entire rite of succession thing should be entirely rewritten and replaced as there is no reason for the WoL to take part in it, and they're barely even in the story to begin with.

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People keep saying Dawntrail is the start of the new arc... except Yoshida has never once said they were writing an arc. In fact, he openly speculated the possibility they won't do another arc but didn't rule it off the table either. Basically, it's the same non-response he's infamous for. Which isn't a criticism, just to be clear. I don't necessarily think they need to do another massive saga.

And that begs another question. What did Dawntrail even set up? Every major villain is either dead or reformed, and the remaining new additions all had their stories concluded. The only hint at anything beyond is Erenville's vague musings about going on another adventure. However, that isn't really a tie in to Dawntrail nor would said expansion be necessary. Contrast this to ARR which left several plot threads unresolved and ended with Nanamo seemingly poisoned, Y'shtola trapped in the life stream and the Scions in complete disarray. It feels far more likely 7.1 will be another Zero styled mini series because there's nothing to go off from Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And that begs another question. What did Dawntrail even set up?

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The dumb Azem hourglass thing.

I betting the original plan from here was to just go on shard adventures for a while. Still might.

The argument that it's a new story arc is so ridiculous to me lol believe it or not, you can have a well written fleshed out interesting story at the start. In fact, an opening should grab your attention, leave you on the edge of your seat, leave you wanting more. I don't think you should aim to bore your audience to death with horrendous pacing, amateur writing, and unlikeable characters, then hope that word of mouth will bring people back in when the story "gets good" again.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

The dumb Azem hourglass thing.

I betting the original plan from here was to just go on shard adventures for a while. Still might.

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Still waiting for them to figure out the whole 'Shard Travel Network' so our buddies from Norvrandt can visit us.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I feel you could describe Endwalker just the same way with the exception of the stakes. Lack of common sense and communication, we get the final boss to give up on her mission by hugging her, we stand there while we watch someone die without doing anything... the story isn't without it's flaws but it wasn't anything too grating to do "Damage to the brand" lmao.

To me that's all a matter of opinoin, I found the storylines compelling. but if I have a real critcisims is that there are so many action scenes turned into cutscenes. You barely control your character but to drag other NPCs around, so it's a cutscene at your own pace. I have all these cool abilities and I use them on maybe 15 encounters. I find the MSQ flawed, but not because of it's characters, it's the narrative that bothers me, with such an up of quality from EW in terms of content it's kind of sad we spend so much time reading a book.

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You could say that from literally ANY expansion, even Shadowbringers. People praise the stories of other expansions as if they are the newest best narrative ever made, and they forget the same criticism they apply on Dawntrail also existed in the previous expansions. The way the MSQ tried to force down my throat, in Shadowbringers, that I should care and feel bad about Emet-Selch and the Ascians is something that will always bother me in this narrative. They forced the general views on many people to the point I felt such lack of immersion that ever since .1 of Shadowbringers, I hardly could relate with my WoL at all UNTIL Dawntrail as you reach Heritage Found and start to genuinely be bothered by all that's happening.

I guarantee Yoshi-P isn't thinking this at all.

I'm sure he's thinking this is the most pre-ordered expansion ever and is excited at the new stuff his team is working on.

Anyone saying the english dub is bad now should go back and play with Japanese VAs since ARR. English was never good, it just got worse.

The voice acting is fine.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I guarantee Yoshi-P isn't thinking this at all.

I'm sure he's thinking this is the most pre-ordered expansion ever and is excited at the new stuff his team is working on.

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If he did that he would be bad at his job and he is anything but that.

Looking at feedback and reception of the story, correcting or strengthening curse, looking what worked and what not is hi entire job.

If he ignored all feedback and just looked at initial players and subscribers we wouldn‘t have the good dungeons now.
Mind you, I don’t expect nor want I an apology.

Sure they sometimes force stuff they think is right like blm job changes but they also said that 8.0 will be a change with that.

The feedback this time is big, it is loud and it is international with even positive cc‘s like Preach being ambivalent and even Mr. Happy just being ok. The former is known to be chill and interested in the lore and the later almost never says anything even remotely negative.
And no matter what others want to believe, those are people he watches and pays attention to.

There is no way he hasn‘t heard the feedback and no way he will at least look into some of it. Probably the biggest criticism like one character having too much spotlight, the player character missing too much agency or the missing gameplay in the story.

They reacted for far less negative feedback.
PR is important. Reacting to this stuff would be such an easy way for them to look good and play the whole „devs listening to their players“ card they would be stupid not to.

Now will they do it fast? Probably not because the first patches are already written.
Will they do everything I and others want? No because not everything would be the right curse like for example benching Wuk Lamat completely.

But some things will be addressed and I am tired of being insulted and accused because I want my character to actually have a point in the story.
I still hold the devs in high regard and wait for something.
IF they continue this path with the MSQ despite all this vocal stop signing then I will drop this game because they make it clear it’s no longer for me.

While immediate changes would be most welcome and would restore my interest and emotional bond for the Story, I doubt they will go to action immediately. I fear we have to live with this mess until the next expansion. We can just hope that enough players quit their sub to make their voices heard because SADLY nothing else works in todays industry.

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Originally Posted by Elaithe

This is such an absurd post it's hard to even like fully comprehend that a serious person is actually saying this stuff.

They put out 10 years of bangers, start a new story from scratch, and y'all can't even let them get past the opener before calling it a failure.

I think you all live in a little bubble where you actually believe everyone around you hated it or something. Grow up.

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Dude I'm with you on this one. It's insane to be so entitled that people think the developers have to do this. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Not everything is going to be amazing all the time and you don't deserve compensation for not getting a 10/10 story/game. Yoshi-P has literally stated that the goal behind 7.0 is to set up FFXIV for the next decade of the games lifespan (assuming it continues to be popular for that long).

I think they've done an amazing job overall. People are acting like this was WoW shadowlands level of bad or something. Please, give it, and give yourselves some rest.

My only problem with the “it’s setting up a new saga” is really the only plot point you can reasonably take forward from dawntrail is the key. Everything else is basically closed or resolved. Tural is safe and stable. Alexandria still has some lingering points but not really ones you can take forward for years to come as they require being in Alexandria and they have already finished with the leaders of Alexandria; unlike say the WOD

The key definitely feels like it could be used as another azem’s crystal (basically doing whatever the story needs at the time because we are Azem) but that doesn’t feel like a meaningful point to base the entirety of the progression of DT on. Like we got azem’s crystal in amurot but it’s not like the entirety of the plot threads introduced in ShB focused on the crystal. But in DT what else do they have to pull forward

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Originally Posted by Pantheouns

Dude I'm with you on this one. It's insane to be so entitled that people think the developers have to do this. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Not everything is going to be amazing all the time and you don't deserve compensation for not getting a 10/10 story/game. Yoshi-P has literally stated that the goal behind 7.0 is to set up FFXIV for the next decade of the games lifespan (assuming it continues to be popular for that long).

I think they've done an amazing job overall. People are acting like this was WoW shadowlands level of bad or something. Please, give it, and give yourselves some rest.

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Are you able to provide your thoughts on what they did amazing overall? Because if you like it because you like it, doesn't really make for a good argument and it just makes it become an argument with an idiot and it becomes a waste of time like how that one saying about never argue with a stupid person because xyz. The healers have already given their argument, the people also gave an argument about the voices, terrible MSQ experience in DT, and so on. So please, I think it would be beneficial to give detailed reasons to why DT was good. This is a paid product, and people who have paid are able to be angry about the quality given to them... especially considering the false advertisement of Krile, Erenville, and a vacation to worshipping Wuk Lamat instead.

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Originally Posted by cutestfox

FFXIV has always been the story MMO. And you don't get why people are upset?
You've been here for a long time, so you know this already. Maybe you're being dishonest?

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story is still the least part, that this game needs to offer. Its an mmorpg, not an offline title, that only has story to bind people
This game has 1000 other things to keep people play. It doesnt matter if the story is bad or not, if all the actual content makes people login

the raids and upcoming content look very promising so far tho. I couldnt care less if wuk lmao was annoying or not :shrug:

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

I very much doubt he will address it directly, Yoshi-P is like a PR master

He'll probably just say something along the lines of, 'We've heard some player feedback and are working on improving in the future. Moving on...'

Basically normal corpo-speak

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I doubt even that unless the chat is spamming stuff, he probably won't speak about the blunders till DT is closing off and someone gets a 1 on 1 with him and "the future of FFXIV" or something

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

story is still the least part, that this game needs to offer. Its an mmorpg, not an offline title, that only has story to bind people
This game has 1000 other things to keep people play. It doesnt matter if the story is bad or not, if all the actual content makes people login

the raids and upcoming content look very promising so far tho. I couldnt care less if wuk lmao was annoying or not :shrug:

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You are delusionnal if you think there isn't a significant part of the playerbase that is here only for the MSQ. That's basically why nearly 95% of the game can be done solo, without having to interract with anyone.

Raid are being done during the next month of the MSQ release patch by those kind of players (and mostly only for the story in it).
But farming, crafting, housing, pvp, events or RP alltogether aren't much compared to the MSQ in how it attract players.

It doesn't matter if there is "1000 other things" to do if factually most doesn't care of it. It's enough for the game to continue working between patches, but the MSQ is the only reason why FFXIV is still a thing (by a thing I mean a successful game, it could still exist but with far less content or just being like FFXI).

ARR is one of the biggest problem to attract new players, with it's reputation to be "mediocre" at best, before Heavensward or Shadowbringers being the best of what the game have to offer.
If Dawntrail end up with the same reputation (and it seems to be the case to be honest, maybe even worse), it's a disaster for Square Enix. An MMORPG can just be successful with it's current playerbase, there are always people stopping for many reasons, there is a need for new players.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

story is still the least part, that this game needs to offer. Its an mmorpg, not an offline title, that only has story to bind people
This game has 1000 other things to keep people play. It doesnt matter if the story is bad or not, if all the actual content makes people login

the raids and upcoming content look very promising so far tho. I couldnt care less if wuk lmao was annoying or not :shrug:

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This. I couldn't care less about the story if they focus on the content instead this expansion and deliver on that, the MSQ is probably not even 5% of my time spent in the game.

Just look at Stormblood, mediocre MSQ but it delivered on both content and gameplay which makes people remember it as one of the best expansions.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Simple question, what actions will the team announce at the next live letter to try and repair the DT story writing?

Replacing one person as the msq writer isn't the complete answer by any means. The whole team must have reviewed, discussed and finally approved this msq over a lengthy period as a good enough product for the playerbase.

So, what next Yoshi P? Carry on as we are or announce revisions?

The next live letter will be very interesting.

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There's nothing to "try and repair" except your poor reading comprehension, and by now that's a task far outside the qualifications and ability of YoshiP.

At least you'll still play the game either way.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

That's not damage, that's just divisive opinions, and the MSQ isn't the only measure of an expansion. Endwalker had a good story, and it was to me the worst expansion contentwise. I almost didn't get Dawntrail because I thought we would have more of the same. Did people look back at Stormblood and Lyse and say "will Yoshi-P please address the irreparable damage this expansion has given the FF brand?"

Like I'm having a blast playing through Dawntrail, especially looking forward the raid scene next month.

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It's damage because it's a bad MSQ in a game in which the MSQ is mandatory which means it's a colossal barrier to entry. Although you're liking it, you're in the vast minority. Even people who have gave positive reviews have mainly stated the MSQ is terrible but the rest of the game is good. Overall it's been pretty well accepted that this MSQ was not good.

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Originally Posted by Zuccubus

"Damage to the brand" is such an overblown exaggeration lol. It wasn\\'t great, but it was better than both arr and stormblood. They also had an insanely tough act to follow after shb and ew, especially since they need to restart more or less. Also it\\'s looking like we may get the best savage raid series in the game, along with the other massively improved content.

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We aren't talking about ff14 in a bubble, we are talking about square in general and final fantasy being what ppl think when they head square. And so far they haven't been doing well, ff7rebirth hasn't done well, ff16 didn't do well enough, other projects have bombed hard at square and now a lot of negative reception for their cash cow. It's not a good trend and squares financial situation is reflecting that

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

This. I couldn't care less about the story if they focus on the content instead this expansion and deliver on that, the MSQ is probably not even 5% of my time spent in the game.

Just look at Stormblood, mediocre MSQ but it delivered on both content and gameplay which makes people remember it as one of the best expansions.

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Stormblood is nealry each time, in any ranking fan or any website, either last or just above ARR. That's what I'm saying, this kind of thinking is delusional.

It's like in WoW, when sometimes hardcore raiders are threatening Blizzard with strike or things like that. Blizzard don't care of a few thousands or ten of thousands of players, when millions of casual players are paying their sub doing casual content.
The casual content of FFXIV is the MSQ.

Edit : And most of the good about Stormblood is from the patches, where, in fact, the MSQ is far better than the main expansion.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

It's damage because it's a bad MSQ in a game in which the MSQ is mandatory which means it's a colossal barrier to entry. Although you're liking it, you're in the vast minority. Even people who have gave positive reviews have mainly stated the MSQ is terrible but the rest of the game is good. Overall it's been pretty well accepted that this MSQ was not good.

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Uh.... isn't this kind of confirmation bias? LIke where is this consensus coming from, these forums? Reddit? Some people here are comparing it to the damage 1.0 did because they want to push the narrative that Dawntrail was a terrible failure for some reason.

I don't know if you remember, but even during Endwalker there was a 1000 page post on how very very bad the story was. And it didn't "damage" the FF brand at all.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Uh.... isn't this kind of confirmation bias? LIke where is this consensus coming from, these forums? Reddit? Some people here are comparing it to the damage 1.0 did because they want to push the narrative that Dawntrail was a terrible failure for some reason.

I don't know if you remember, but even during Endwalker there was a 1000 page post on how very very bad the story was. And it didn't "damage" the FF brand at all.

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The reviews from "professional" website and the content creators. Endwalker was universally praised by both of them, the complains were mainly contained in this forum.

No expansion had so much divisive review (and I'm not talking about user's one with review bombing on both side becoming a well known thing) than Dawntrail nor had the content creator giving this "meh" feeling about it.
And that's two of the best entry point for new player that an MMORPG need to stay alive. I mean, even in some of the good reviews, they say that the MSQ is mid at best, praising only the rest.

You may find it stupid or unfair but no expansion, even Stormblood, have ever been as divisive as Dawntrail and it's a problem for Square Enix.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

The reviews from "professional" website and the content creators. Endwalker was universally praised by both of them, the complains were mainly contained in this forum.

No expansion had so much divisive review (and I'm not talking about user's one with review bombing on both side becoming a well known thing) than Dawntrail nor had the content creator giving this "meh" feeling about it.
And that's two of the best entry point for new player that an MMORPG need to stay alive. I mean, even in some of the good reviews, they say that the MSQ is mid at best, praising only the rest.

You may find it stupid or unfair but no expansion, even Stormblood, have ever been as divisive as Dawntrail and it's a problem for Square Enix.

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Stormblood was ABSOLUTELY more divisive and your insistence that it wasn't just shows you weren't around for it, or are just being dishonest.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

The reviews from "professional" website and the content creators. Endwalker was universally praised by both of them, the complains were mainly contained in this forum.

No expansion had so much divisive review (and I'm not talking about user's one with review bombing on both side becoming a well known thing) than Dawntrail nor had the content creator giving this "meh" feeling about it.
And that's two of the best entry point for new player that an MMORPG need to stay alive. I mean, even in some of the good reviews, they say that the MSQ is mid at best, praising only the rest.

You may find it stupid or unfair but no expansion, even Stormblood, have ever been as divisive as Dawntrail and it's a problem for Square Enix.

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Says who that it's a problem for Square Enix? Did people mass unsub or something?

Like scores from "Professional websites" don't matter. IGN and Gamespot gave it an 8 which is "great" by their measurement but I don't trust a review score anymore to measure the success of a game. Especially a live-game.
As for content creators I don't know what to say, like really, I've seen a FLOOD of FF Content on youtube and social media like I hadn't seen in any other expansion.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Uh.... isn't this kind of confirmation bias? LIke where is this consensus coming from, these forums? Reddit? Some people here are comparing it to the damage 1.0 did because they want to push the narrative that Dawntrail was a terrible failure for some reason.

I don't know if you remember, but even during Endwalker there was a 1000 page post on how very very bad the story was. And it didn't "damage" the FF brand at all.

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Take a look at the user reviews not just the, it's shit or it's great all the reviews where people left genuine feedback, all of them ever the positive reviews mention how poor the story is. when the people who are pro you also agree story bad, when the content creators that usually go to bat for the game are also responding negatively, yes it's not good. From a purely creative writing stand point it's poorly written. You can like something that's poorly written but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

At very very best it's ARR level, at best. We know that's a big barrier to entry, so imagine trying to on board a new customer that knows the ARR is not very good, so i go through that, then have another ARR level slog to get through. That's a problem, that's why people are talking about brand damage

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

Stormblood was ABSOLUTELY more divisive and your insistence that it wasn't just shows you weren't around for it, or are just being dishonest.

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Inside the active community. The one that is already paying or has already paid.
Not outside.

That's my point. Square Enix need FFXIV because it's basically how they gain money with all the successive failure they experienced. They need on constant flux of new player to compensate all those who stop.
We are a minority, those who go on reddit or that don't care about scores.

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Says who that it's a problem for Square Enix? Did people mass unsub or something?

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We will see. But you realize it hasn't been even one month since it's official release ?

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Take a look at the user reviews not just the, it's shit or it's great all the reviews where people left genuine feedback, all of them ever the positive reviews mention how poor the story is. when the people who are pro you also agree story bad, when the content creators that usually go to bat for the game are also responding negatively, yes it's not good. From a purely creative writing stand point it's poorly written. You can like something that's poorly written but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

At very very best it's ARR level, at best. We know that's a big barrier to entry, so imagine trying to on board a new customer that knows the ARR is not very good, so i go through that, then have another ARR level slog to get through. That's a problem, that's why people are talking about brand damage

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I've read the reviews on Steam which is mostly just dogpiling and complaining about Wuk Lamat, but really, meh. It's been a few weeks since the game officially launched, and i keep seeing more and more players logging in and crafting and doing endgame content.

Dawntrail's story and charaters are vastly superior to ARR, you got Erenville, Sphene, Caciwa and all the thirsts for Bakool Ja Ja, you got the upcoming raids with more characters too. Please, spare me this comparison. You are allowed to dislike and not care about the story, I did it in post-HW, SB and post-Endwalker but to jump into brand damage as if FF is ruined is beyond me.

You want to see a TRUE brand damage, look at Overwatch.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

So, what next Yoshi P? Carry on as we are or announce revisions?

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If he's smart (which he is), he will say nothing while letting him team fixing the mess. And I'm saying this as one who very vocal about my disappointment of the MSQ, but I neither need nor care about the instant gratification or validation.

The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what Yoshi says or admit right now, it won't fix or change anything short term. It will just 99% make the problem worse because the internet (which I'm a part of) is not kind, all it would do is giving most haters (like myself) the validation to double and putting even more pressure on his team.

It can't be just words, the situation is so bad that the next time he addresses the issue, he needs to carry some physical bargaining chips to back up his words.

I dearly hope behind the scene they're doing a hard review and re-pivoting the story ASAP, and I want to see it happens in patches ASAP. But the earliest time Yoshi gonna talk about it probably near the end of the expansion.

This way he can manages future expectation. Even if changes gonna happen soon, there is no guarantee it will be good or well received.

If the change is good, he can point at it (after the fact) and claim they listen and make thing better, building more hype to future expansion.

If the change is bad, he can pretend DT's msq as a whole is a fail project and promise to be better in the future.

Because he openly admit mistake and promise change now and it turns out bad, things gonna be worse, MUCH worse.


I hate DT's MSQ with a passion, I had make my opinion loud and clear. I hope they took note and working on a change. But like I said I don't care about having my ego soothed by a validation from Yoshi or his team in the short term, I'm more interested in actual action.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I've read the reviews on Steam which is mostly just dogpiling and complaining about Wuk Lamat, but really, meh. It's been a few weeks since the game officially launched, and i keep seeing more and more players logging in and crafting and doing endgame content.

Dawntrail's story and charaters are vastly superior to ARR, you got Erenville, Sphene, Caciwa and all the thirsts for Bakool Ja Ja, you got the upcoming raids with more characters too. Please, spare me this comparison. You are allowed to dislike and not care about the story, I did it in post-HW, SB and post-Endwalker but to jump into brand damage as if FF is ruined is beyond me.

You want to see a TRUE brand damage, look at Overwatch.

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Well, to be honest, when I'm talking about brand damage, I don't talk of something of Overwatch scale.
Overwatch case wasn't brand damage.
It was Blizzard sacrificing Overwatch on an altar for whatever stupid reason.

Dawntrail won't kill FFXIV, and if they realized their mistake, like they did with Stormblood with the patches than came after, it will be more than ok and I am hopefull of that.

But it's also a fact that Stormblood damaged FFXIV reputation even until now. It's just that Shadowbringers was so awesome, loved and successful that it repaired it or at least gave a reason to say "if you survive Stormblood you will have the most awesome MMORPG expansion to experienced".
Since 6.x, the MSQ reputation is on the downstill, and Dawntrail didn't repaired it, we are in the longest period I have ever seen where the MSQ has been so criticized. In a MMO where the story is so important, it's a problem. Not a life threatening one - yet -, but still a problem.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I've read the reviews on Steam which is mostly just dogpiling and complaining about Wuk Lamat, but really, meh. It's been a few weeks since the game officially launched, and i keep seeing more and more players logging in and crafting and doing endgame content.

Dawntrail's story and charaters are vastly superior to ARR, you got Erenville, Sphene, Caciwa and all the thirsts for Bakool Ja Ja, you got the upcoming raids with more characters too. Please, spare me this comparison. You are allowed to dislike and not care about the story, I did it in post-HW, SB and post-Endwalker but to jump into brand damage as if FF is ruined is beyond me.

You want to see a TRUE brand damage, look at Overwatch.

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Damage is damage, you can argue the degree all you want. What I mean by that is. If I say, it's not good I smashed my car into a bollard and smashed the bumper lights and bonnet. Then someone says, that's nothing see this complete wreck. It's irrelevant to my situation that other cars have been damaged worse, the same as it's irrelevant to SE that Blizz dropped the ball with OW2.

You're also wrong, the characters are all terribly written and from a writing standpoint this is the worst expac they have released. Now many will still enjoy the dungeon and raids, and some may enjoy the story, but it's a none starter arguing the story isn't an example of terrible writing.

Look, I'm not a fan of the story myself but anyone who says they need to fix it has not let that stew in their noggin long enough before writing that.

There's no rewriting msq. It is done. Furthermore, msq at its actual worst is ambivalent in reception. It'd be one thing if it was universally disliked but it isn't. It's been a mixed reception everywhere you see the reviews and that's where it's most likely to stay.

To add to that, the massive saving grace that is virtually everything else the expansion has to offer so far is not gonna make devs even acknowledge the story has a problem publicly. Internally? Yeah for sure. But at the end of the day, if there's going to be a fix, it's only going to happen years from now and they'll only touch how you progress like ARR.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Look, I'm not a fan of the story myself but anyone who says they need to fix it has not let that stew in their noggin long enough before writing that.

There's no rewriting msq. It is done. Furthermore, msq at its actual worst is ambivalent in reception. It'd be one thing if it was universally disliked but it isn't. It's been a mixed reception everywhere you see the reviews and that's where it's most likely to stay.

To add to that, the massive saving grace that is virtually everything else the expansion has to offer so far is not gonna make devs even acknowledge the story has a problem publicly. Internally? Yeah for sure. But at the end of the day, if there's going to be a fix, it's only going to happen years from now and they'll only touch how you progress like ARR.

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People talk like Stormblood was universally hated, yet it scores much much higher than Dawntrail, even as far as story goes. Let that sink it for how much people dislike the Dawntrail story. They started fixing the issues in the post patch story. It didn't take years for the fixing to start to happen.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Look, I'm not a fan of the story myself but anyone who says they need to fix it has not let that stew in their noggin long enough before writing that.

There's no rewriting msq. It is done. Furthermore, msq at its actual worst is ambivalent in reception. It'd be one thing if it was universally disliked but it isn't. It's been a mixed reception everywhere you see the reviews and that's where it's most likely to stay.

To add to that, the massive saving grace that is virtually everything else the expansion has to offer so far is not gonna make devs even acknowledge the story has a problem publicly. Internally? Yeah for sure. But at the end of the day, if there's going to be a fix, it's only going to happen years from now and they'll only touch how you progress like ARR.

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I agree I don't think they will re write, the level of cost currently is not worth it to them, especially when there's a much a much cheaper option. If subs and interest is severely hit by this expac, when the next expac releases, they will give all new players a free story skip. It removes the barrier to entry DT has created entirely and functionally costs the business nothing. They can even PR spin it to say it's to allow new people to catch up, and not even reference DT's performance.

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

A successful product in a sector where reputation is everything, is not defined by "Some people liked it", it is defined by "Everybody liked it".

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So by this definition FF14 is a complete failure from start to finish because I have seen some people say the entire story is bad and that makes the game bad. So because EVERYONE doesn't like it, that means it failed.

Hell of a "Failure" since it saved Square Enix.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

So by this definition FF14 is a complete failure from start to finish because I have seen some people say the entire story is bad and that makes the game bad. So because EVERYONE doesn't like it, that means it failed.

Hell of a "Failure" since it saved Square Enix.

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It's amazing how WoW that has the reputation that the quality of the story has dropped since WotLK and with Shadowlands that's been dubbed the worst expansion ever for WoW (if I'm not mistaken) is still online and subscription based.
Oh, and not to mention the reputation of its playerbase being completely toxic.
Reputation is everything. WoW should be long dead by now.
/s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

It's amazing how WoW that has the reputation that the quality of the story has dropped since WotLK and with Shadowlands that's been dubbed the worst expansion ever for WoW (if I'm not mistaken) is still online and subscription based.
Oh, and not to mention the reputation of its playerbase being completely toxic.
Reputation is everything. WoW should be long dead by now.
/s

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WoW was so big that it's fall is taking longer than most, but if you look at the sub data they released recently and then adjust it to remove the WoW classic/HC subs, it's current sub count is as low as the worst part of WoD, it's getting lower and lower year on.
That being said all us gamers have the memory of goldfish so you're only really 1 great expac from completely revitalising your game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

It's amazing how WoW that has the reputation that the quality of the story has dropped since WotLK and with Shadowlands that's been dubbed the worst expansion ever for WoW (if I'm not mistaken) is still online and subscription based.
Oh, and not to mention the reputation of its playerbase being completely toxic.
Reputation is everything. WoW should be long dead by now.
/s

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WoW was never a story heavy game. It was an MMO where you play no one in a world with a marvelous lore, but there was close to no story about it, the "story" element where first introduce in Wotlk (and not even remotly closed to what FFXIV is doing) and they tried, expansion after expansion to make the "Adventurer" a true character like the WoL and include storyline, because that's what work now for MMORPG.

WoW reputation was mainly about always having something to do, PVP and endgame PVE. I will even say the toxicity of the playerbase was a plus at the beginning, simply because it was a faction based MMO (which became a problem when the "faction war" became stupid lore-wise). And while there was some better times than other, endgame PVE and PVP always worked quite well with WoW. Lore was the only part that was butchered.
WoW was so much high above the cloud, far above what FFXIV can't even dream off, that even by losing a significant amount of player, they are still number one. WoW Is in another planet with Fortnite, LoL or Roblox.

FFXIV reputation in mainly about the community and it's story. A community highly divided with the toxic positivity / negativity all around and a story that also is divisive.

Edit : some grammatical corrections + WoW can't be compared to FFXIV simply because not only WoW is far bigger than FFXIV, but Activision Blizzard was far bigger than Square Enix, they can assume losing millions of subs and compensate it, Square Enix can't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

FFXIV reputation in mainly about the community and it's story. A community highly divided with the toxic positivity / negativity all around and a story that also is divisive.

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Yeah, if there is one area you don't want to see the players fractured or divisive in FF14, it's the story. Samething with WoW's end game, its lowest point wasn't when the story suck, but when it tried the most asine end game loop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

WoW was never not a story heavy game. It was an MMO where you play no one in a world with a marvelous lore, but there was close to no story about it, the "story" element where first introduce in Wotlk (and not even remotly closed to what FFXIV is doing) and they tried, expansion after expansion to make the "Adventurer" a true character like the WoL and include storyline, because that's what work now for MMORPG.

WoW reputation was mainly about always having something to do, PVP and endgame PVE. I will even say the toxicity of the playerbase was a plus at the beginning, simply because it was a faction based MMO (which became a problem when the "faction war" became stupid lore-wise). And while there was some better times than other, endgame PVE and PVP always worked quite well with WoW. Lore was the only part that was butchered.
WoW was so much high above the cloud, far above what FFXIV can't even dream off, that even by losing a significant amount of player, they are still number one. WoW Is in another planet with Fortnite, LoL or Roblox.

FFXIV reputation in mainly about the community and it's story. A community highly divided with the toxic positivity / negativity all around and a story that also is divisive.

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WoW has always had a story. And long story going way back to the RTS games, the Warcraft series.
So it's not like the story never had a big part only because the player character wasn't the "chosen one".
But that's the thing, like you mentioned, even if WoW's story has been lackluster the gameplay is what has been the main attraction that's kept it floating.
So even if Dawntrails story is lackluster compared to the previous one, as long as the upcoming Dawntrail content is good people will enjoy it.
Or are people subconsciously admiting that FFXIV is a boring/bad game unless the story is good?
Is the story the only redeeming point FFXIV has?

Also, fun sidenote on WoW's toxic community.
Recently I saw a youtube video of someone who was going to test it out by acting like a complete noob.
5 runs as DPS - low dps and taking unnecessary damage, etc
5 runs as healer - spam 1 heal, etc
5 runs as tank - fail to keep aggro, etc
The result, no one yelled at him or was toxic. In fact many were very helpful and gave hints and tips.