Just stop playing healer

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

One can be committed to boycotting carrying heavy boxes for strangers.

(By analogy, Duty Finder and Party Finder.)

Like, seriously. This is a game, not a life and death struggle for a basic human right. There just might be reasonable room to let each individual decide how far (or not) they're willing to go, and to accept their choice in the matter.

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Yes, it's a game. So why are people striking in the first place? This isn't some unthetical employer affecting employee livelihoods.

If the participants want to call it a strike, then they should be willing to take actions that are actually going to get SE's attention. Not milquetoast declarations that they're leaving the healer role because they're so upset with it but having a million exceptions that make the action entirely pointless.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Exactly. If we have a big shortage of healers, the game will be partially unfunctional in duties. The voices will be louder, and changes will be more immediate.

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Except that with trust, the "protest" it's essentially mute.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

If the participants want to call it a strike, then they should be willing to take actions that are actually going to get SE's attention. Not milquetoast declarations that they're leaving the healer role because they're so upset with it but having a million exceptions that make the action entirely pointless.

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I agree.

And that's why I will not join the strike, even when I think that healers are in need of some attention and that a strike is the right way to go after years of ignored feedback.

This strike will go nowhere.

We should be respecting and supporting players who are acting out of genuine concern for a combat role they are passionate about in the game we all love. Every disgruntled healer that is participating in the strike is doing the right thing. The dev team will, without a doubt, get the picture real quick when the effects of the strike start showing in their player metrics

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yes, it's a game. So why are people striking in the first place? This isn't some unthetical employer affecting employee livelihoods.

If the participants want to call it a strike, then they should be willing to take actions that are actually going to get SE's attention. Not milquetoast declarations that they're leaving the healer role because they're so upset with it but having a million exceptions that make the action entirely pointless.

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Yeah. I agree with SOME of their concerns (like healer damage being overly simplified, I disagree with calls to remove healing utility from other jobs etc) and I'm sympathetic to that. But the actual act of the 'strike' feels a bit silly and I'm skeptical it will have any noticeable impact. Let alone a consistent, long term impact across multiple data centers which is what they need for it to really work as a 'strike.' It doesn't help either that the strike is starting at the same time two new DPS jobs are going to be hitting the game. This will have a temporary effect on role distribution in party finder as it always does, and further obscure any actual impact the strike might have otherwise had over the first couple weeks of the expansion. So it will lead to muddied waters where one one hand people will say the strike is ineffective because this is just normal for expansion launch, and on the other hand some may say 'look the strike is working' without any way to actually know how much is due to viper/picto and how much is due to the strike.

I sympathize with the healing design issues and support people who are fed up with it either leaving the game or just leaving the healing role behind. But I really don't expect this to have an actual impact.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

I'm convinced the only people who enjoy healers as they are, are people who like to win with the minimal effort

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Try roulettes with random, typical players. I almost exclusively do group content that way, and I often find I need to actual be a healer in order for the group to thrive most of the time. Comments like the one I'm quoting are telling, however, in showing how people isolate themselves in their own echo chambers and then end up completely surprised by reality.

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Originally Posted by Midare

Except that with trust, the "protest" it's essentially mute.

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Can't use trusts in roulettes, alliance raids, normal raids, and savage/ultimate.

You should know this if you play the game beyond msq.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yes, it's a game. So why are people striking in the first place? This isn't some unthetical employer affecting employee livelihoods.

If the participants want to call it a strike, then they should be willing to take actions that are actually going to get SE's attention. Not milquetoast declarations that they're leaving the healer role because they're so upset with it but having a million exceptions that make the action entirely pointless.

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Its not a strike its a tantrum.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Can't use trusts in roulettes, alliance raids, normal raids, and savage/ultimate.

You should know this if you play the game beyond msq.

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Isn't this whole drama brought about because Warriors exist in Roulettes?

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Originally Posted by Tint

I agree.

And that's why I will not join the strike, even when I think that healers are in need of some attention and that a strike is the right way to go after years of ignored feedback.

This strike will go nowhere.

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Meh it's at the very at least made some people aware how toxic the community really is.
A group of people have their gripes with the game and communicate it on the forums and suddenly the faux nice and caring community disappears and the person who posted the thread gets their FFLogs brought up and made fun of just because they don't like the direction of their former favourite role. People go into the thread to mock and belittle people for their opinions.

Yeah I'm glad this happened if it doesn't effect the game, showing the true colours of the fake nice people behind this game always makes me happy. I laugh when people act like this game is less toxic then WoW, it isn't the WoW players are just more honest.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Isn't this whole drama brought about because Warriors exist in Roulettes?

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Sorry to burst you bubble, but no.

To read why Healerstrike is a thing I suggest you read: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...IVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Isn't this whole drama brought about because Warriors exist in Roulettes?

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They saw a premade unrestricted party without healer clear the very first Dungeon of DT.
One of them was Xeno, and he was.... a Warrior-Main, to put it mildly.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

They saw a premade unrestricted party without healer clear tkhe very first Dungeon of DT.
One of them was Xeno, and he was.... a Warrior-Main, to put it mildly.

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No that wasnt what caused the strike it was the final straw of multiple things.
Gemina brought up the idea prior in the healer forums while the media tour was ongoing. When the info came out they were more annoyed over healer issues not being addressed in the new job actions, Seraphism being an eyesore and against scholars identity and the DPS gaining aoe heals. Xeno's video and the lack of nerfs to Warrior's self sustain was the final push for them to make the thread.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

The Healer strike thread was made after the post complaining about people clearing the first dungeon in the first expansion with a unrestricted party.
Without context it's... petty, at best.

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Petty that a role is removed from content? Seems more like a problem to me. Looks like non healer heals are a bit overtuned.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

What is it always with you being so acusatory? Even if I try to make a genuine effort, all I get is accusations.

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You deduce a problem with the strike and mention it or you are dismissive towards a point someone breaks up and never give your opinion. If you want people to be less acusatory of you explain why somethings a problem and how you would fix it instead of just bringing up an issue you have without any opinion attached. Because at that point it look like you are being dismissive.
The people in the strike are agitated because everyone is mocking them and belittling them for a problem they have if you want to have a genuine conversation about it then actually discuss what your point is.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

No that wasnt what caused the strike it was the final straw of multiple things.
Gemina brought up the idea prior in the healer forums while the media tour was ongoing. When the info came out they were more annoyed over healer issues not being addressed in the new job actions, Seraphism being an eyesore and against scholars identity and the DPS gaining aoe heals. Xeno's video and the lack of nerfs to Warrior's self sustain was the final push for them to make the thread.

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The Healer strike thread was made after the post complaining about people clearing the first dungeon in the first expansion with a unrestricted party.
Without context it's... petty, at best.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Just stop playing healer and go play picto developers will see graphs then they will act upon it

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You people need to chill
normal gameplay still needs healers, normal players still need healers

Not all players are equal, not all of them can preform like top raid players

Healers are still needed, you are not some victim.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Without context it's... petty, at best.

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Then don't say it without context. If you spend any tiny amount of good faith effort on it, you could have known the healerstrike isn't based one 1 video. I am sure most of the healers supporting the strike would have been happy to tell you if you had asked.

I'll take the insta healer and tank queues while you guys continue to seethe.

The forums acting like what they post here matters, what a joke.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Then don't say it without context. If you spend any tiny amount of good faith effort on it, you could have known the healerstrike isn't based one 1 video. I am sure most of the healers supporting the strike would have been happy to tell you if you had asked.

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there have been active forum threads complaining about healing for ages now. I feel like every time I've scrolled through ffxiv general, I see at least one in the first page every time. the healer strike isn't because people are mad about warrior (outside of a few individuals), it's because people have been complaining for ages (on the forums, which is where square tells us to give feedback) and have had zero changes or feedback outside of "go play ultimate if you don't like it".

(you also still spam dosis/glare/broil in savage and ultimate btw, healer dps rotation is mind-numbingly boring no matter where you go)

edit: and beyond forum threads/reddit posts, most of the people I know who used to main healer have either stopped playing the game entirely due to state of healers rn, or switched to maining dps/tanks. This includes both casual players and raiders, for anyone who wants to say "that's because they suck at the game and therefore don't have valid opinions" or "raiders are a small percentage of the playerbase and therefore don't have valid opinions." and you won't hear from all of the people who quit this game over their issues with healing, because they already gave up on ever getting changes and don't talk about the game at all.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

While that would be a option, to few will follow up on that. We must not forget that only a small portion of the Players actually Reads the Forums.

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You mean like this "healer strike"?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

The Healer strike thread was made after the post complaining about people clearing the first dungeon in the first expansion with a unrestricted party.
Without context it's... petty, at best.

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You posted several replies in #HealerStrike thread. Surely you would know the context, but then you said this

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Originally Posted by TBerry

They saw a premade unrestricted party without healer clear the very first Dungeon of DT.
One of them was Xeno, and he was.... a Warrior-Main, to put it mildly.

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It's hard not to question your intention when you described the issue in a very disingenuous way. In addition, you defended the guy, who made #DPSstrike thread, with your dismissive post when he got called out with the evidence of his vitrolic replies.
I, too, don't think your intention is pure

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

You people need to chill
normal gameplay still needs healers, normal players still need healers

Not all players are equal, not all of them can preform like top raid players

Healers are still needed, you are not some victim.

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In which case, you can choose to be the healer.

I'm in the middle. I understand and agree with some of the points being made about the state of healing.

I agree that they're under no more obligation to play healer than any other player. If they don't enjoy healing anymore, then they should stop playing healer. Completely, not just piece meal. Playing healer in any content at all would become a +1 to healer in SE's count.

I don't agree that this strike will accomplish what they want.

I will still be healing as I usually do because I enjoy healing and most of those I play with wouldn't be able to complete content with a healer. I know the Xeno's of the game aren't representative of the majority of the player base let alone all of it. Even the controversial dungeon run was a mess - imagine how much smoother it would have gone if they had included in a healer in the party.

But please don't go down the path of current healers owe it to the player base to keep healing so everyone else can have fun. Just no. If some don't want to heal anymore, they shouldn't. If other players find a lack of healers inconvenient, then they should step up for a change and do the healing. If you say "but I don't enjoy healing" then you should understand why they don't want to heal anymore. They've stopped enjoying it and have decided to play other jobs for a change.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

You posted several replies in #HealerStrike thread. Surely you would know the context, but then you said this



It's hard not to question your intention when you described the issue in a very disingenuous way. In addition, you defended the guy, who made #DPSstrike thread, with your dismissive post when he got called out with the evidence of his vitrolic replies.
I, too, don't think your intention is pure

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What reason would I have? What would I gain from that?

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

You posted several replies in #HealerStrike thread. Surely you would know the context, but then you said this



It's hard not to question your intention when you described the issue in a very disingenuous way. In addition, you defended the guy, who made #DPSstrike thread, with your dismissive post when he got called out with the evidence of his vitrolic replies.
I, too, don't think your intention is pure

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Thanks to the magic of finding still cached versions, I was able to read the thread again.
I didn't mean any vitriol by that.

I'm not your enemy.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

The Healer strike thread was made after the post complaining about people clearing the first dungeon in the first expansion with a unrestricted party.
Without context it's... petty, at best.

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And the context is that these issues have plagued the game for the past 2 expansions, and now we're faced with a third of the same and just don't have the desire to eat the same, bland meal with a smile again.

You know the strike is having some effect- at least in terms of exposure- when so many people are getting their underwear in a twist.
Making a thread basically telling healers to not play healer as a response to... a thread about healers banding together to not play healer is something.
I shouldn't post something this useless, but I just cannot comprehend what's going on in the heads of some people.
Here's to 500 pages on the strike page soon. Keep voicing your until CBU3 notices how rubbish healer gameplay and encounter design is.

The thing that gets me is generally at a glance healers have a low skill ceiling (thats not meant to say healers are all bad players) I know many who have trouble with rotations and tank-ciety that feel ok running healer in content; sure they often under perform damage wise; but usually their clutch healing and rescues means DPS can easily pick up the slack. As such I worry that what people are pushing for is to make healers as stressful as a DPS feels to do a proper rotation and I am not sure if thats a good thing.

I worry because if you increase the skill ceiling of everything then this will happen. The skilled players will get bored because they are rolling the content (much of which is already pretty easy with a bit of practice) and so they will demand harder and harder encounters; or the encounters will all be designed with optimal play in mind and essentially block out sup-optimal players resulting in mid-range players bowing out entirely. I am curious what the statistics on players clearing the savage tier is for example by role @ level 90.

I don't have a great answer but the challenge is it needs to be balanced but also economical as SE likely does not want to make a lot of content to cater to the hardcore encounter crowd - thus why Ultimates are so sparse and often lack any actual story relevance.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

THE FACT ITS POSSIBLE TO DO A ULTIMATE RAID THE SAME PATCH IT CAME OUT WITHOUT HEALERS IS A FUNDEMENTAL PROBLEM WITH THE TRINTY BALANCE.

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seethe harder

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I worry because if you increase the skill ceiling of everything then this will happen. The skilled players will get bored because they are rolling the content (much of which is already pretty easy with a bit of practice) and so they will demand harder and harder encounters

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It's important there's enough room to optimize that you can engage with your kit and the mechanics to clear faster or there's nowhere to go after you clear, it becomes dull almost immediately because you're doing the same thing but again.

Healers make this extra bad because the optimized point is 90% literally one spell, there's no mental difficulty nor physical execution difficulty beyond resolving mechs.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Its not a strike its a tantrum.

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I don't consider it a tantrum or looking for attention. There are valid concerns. I get bored sometimes myself. I'm just disappointed to see the lack of commitment. I've healed for 10 years now and I'm still enjoying the role. I've had to adjust to a lot over the years but I'm still satisified by the experience. So I'll be playing healer, not to spite anyone, but because it's still fun for me.

However, if I were as unhappy as many are, I wouldn't touch the role. I wouldn't level it. I wouldn't heal for friends. I would politely explain to them that the role no longer was something I was interested in and I would hope they would respect my wishes. If my goal is to not contribute to SE's numbers for healers, I would do everything possible to not do that. I'd have to sacrifice some things. If there's a neat reward for all 100s, then I would miss out on that. I wouldn't get all the relics like I usually do. I wouldn't have a class to use certain gear on. If my friends only had room for a healer role, I may not get to join them. That would all suck but if I'm that unhappy, then I would commit. So many are saying they will only avoid DF and even in this thread you can see people planning to level their healers in alternative ways. Those things completely undermine any sort of movement that's trying to spread.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yes, it's a game. So why are people striking in the first place? This isn't some unthetical employer affecting employee livelihoods.

If the participants want to call it a strike, then they should be willing to take actions that are actually going to get SE's attention. Not milquetoast declarations that they're leaving the healer role because they're so upset with it but having a million exceptions that make the action entirely pointless.

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Lmao you guys are actually hilarious. Do us a favor and put your whining in the actual thread. Leaving the healer role IS a way of getting attention. Streamers talking about it is attention. Getting 400 likes and 500 pages is attention. Your post right here is attention. But keep talking to yourself about how a strike is simultaneously outrageous and yet not enough.

Were you in the benchmark threads telling them they're not doing enough? If I am not mistaken that movement came from forums. Was it a tantrum? Perhaps. It still got results. So permit me to find feedback going on ITT to be totally irrelevant. Well, not totally because after all it is clearly self soothing.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I don't consider it a tantrum or looking for attention. There are valid concerns. I get bored sometimes myself. I'm just disappointed to see the lack of commitment. I've healed for 10 years now and I'm still enjoying the role. I've had to adjust to a lot over the years but I'm still satisified by the experience. So I'll be playing healer, not to spite anyone, but because it's still fun for me.

However, if I were as unhappy as many are, I wouldn't touch the role. I wouldn't level it. I wouldn't heal for friends. I would politely explain to them that the role no longer was something I was interested in and I would hope they would respect my wishes. If my goal is to not contribute to SE's numbers for healers, I would do everything possible to not do that. I'd have to sacrifice some things. If there's a neat reward for all 100s, then I would miss out on that. I wouldn't get all the relics like I usually do. I wouldn't have a class to use certain gear on. If my friends only had room for a healer role, I may not get to join them. That would all suck but if I'm that unhappy, then I would commit. So many are saying they will only avoid DF and even in this thread you can see people planning to level their healers in alternative ways. Those things completely undermine any sort of movement that's trying to spread.

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No one would have to miss out on the rewards for all 100s. They would just want to wait until later in Dawntrail to get it because the strike is unlikely to last indefinitely. Either SE responds within a couple of months or they don't.

Otherwise, I mostly agree with you. I still have fun healing so I'll continue to do. Those who don't should stop healing altogether instead of making exceptions. By making exceptions, they're effectively affirming what YoshiP said about playing healer in more difficult content would more satisfying to them and so they're okay with things.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No one would have to miss out on the rewards for all 100s. They would just want to wait until later in Dawntrail to get it because the strike is unlikely to last indefinitely. Either SE responds within a couple of months or they don't.

Otherwise, I mostly agree with you. I still have fun healing so I'll continue to do. Those who don't should stop healing altogether instead of making exceptions. By making exceptions, they're effectively affirming what YoshiP said about playing healer in more difficult content would more satisfying to them and so they're okay with things.

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They're not asking for anyone to miss out on all 100s rewards
'Leveling a job' =/= 'Playing a job'; there are a multitude of ways to level jobs "passively" without using them in any multiplayer activities at all...
and even opening up the scope to FATEs and PvP I personally wouldn't consider 'playing the jobs' since the skill ceiling is so low in the former it's on the floor and the latter uses a unique kit not involved with PvE at all

and the issue with the 'go play ultimates' for "more engaging" content is graphically illustrated here
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...IVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Lmao you guys are actually hilarious. Do us a favor and put your whining in the actual thread. Leaving the healer role IS a way of getting attention. Streamers talking about it is attention. Getting 400 likes and 500 pages is attention. Your post right here is attention. But keep talking to yourself about how a strike is simultaneously outrageous and yet not enough.

Were you in the benchmark threads telling them they're not doing enough? If I am not mistaken that movement came from forums. Was it a tantrum? Perhaps. It still got results. So permit me to find feedback going on ITT to be totally irrelevant. Well, not totally because after all it is clearly self soothing.

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If you level the role, use it in DF with friends and with statics, you aren't leaving the role. That is still going to contribute to SE's numbers on who is utilizing the role.

Put yourself in SE's shoes for a minute. They hear about all of this. But they look at their metrics and the data doesn't match up. How seriously are they going to take things if their data of role usage contradicts it? Most classes that got a revamp are those that people weren't playing at all or even leveling. Those are solid metrics that would speak to them about player unhappiness.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No one would have to miss out on the rewards for all 100s. They would just want to wait until later in Dawntrail to get it because the strike is unlikely to last indefinitely. Either SE responds within a couple of months or they don't.

Otherwise, I mostly agree with you. I still have fun healing so I'll continue to do. Those who don't should stop healing altogether instead of making exceptions. By making exceptions, they're effectively affirming what YoshiP said about playing healer in more difficult content would more satisfying to them and so they're okay with things.

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A good and valid point. They won't have to wait forever. Some really do seem to be planning business as usual and not waiting for SE's response. I noped out of Eureka when it was current at Pagos and avoided it until later so I didn't contribute to their engagement numbers. Same with Bozja. I'll do the same with the Bermuda Triangle if it's just more fate farming. SE pays a lot of attention to engagement and participation numbers. One only has to look at their comments about how there were a lot more people who did the Manderville relics this time.

Also, you can't remotely say that you're still going to heal because you don't have the same viewpoint even if you have things you'd like to change about the current role to a lot of people participating in this because they will go off the deep end at you. But that tends to happen a lot when someone is unhappy and others simply say they feel differently.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Can't use trusts in roulettes, alliance raids, normal raids, and savage/ultimate.

You should know this if you play the game beyond msq.

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And if you take into account the many who don't know about this stunt, and those who know but won't follow it, and those that are in either camp and willing to start giving healing a try, that still renders it mute.

I second main healers myself, I'll be healing normally.

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Originally Posted by Midare

And if you take into account the many who don't know about this stunt, and those who know but won't follow it, and those that are in either camp and willing to start giving healing a try, that still renders it mute.

I second main healers myself, I'll be healing normally.

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Please literally go right ahead that’s one of the core tenants of this

We have already got as many people talking as we can, there is little else we can do, so we are going to enjoy the fun roles and play the good classes (I’ll be on PCT) come DT because we don’t want to heal anymore

If we are infinitesimally small then we are happy in the knowledge we tired something that got people talking and we get to play classes we find fun, if we are bigger than people expect it may disrupt the queues, it people fill those spaces we leave behind they either be up liking healers which benefits our queues as new DPS or they realise we have a point that healers are garbage

That’s the point, we are already done, you filling our spots literally only benefits us

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

seethe harder

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This is real funny coming from a raging transphobe who keeps crying about PC players being able to use plugins, lol.

they really need to stop necrobumping these dead topics.

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Originally Posted by george357

they really need to stop necrobumping these dead topics.

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Isn't that what you just did?

I will play what I want to play tyvm ydpms♥