2hr Abilites (Yes Please!)? or (No Thanks!)?

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Your post are useless and you're still here.

Anyway. Thank goodness for this bit of news. Anything to add even the smallest element of strategy in this game would be more than welcome.

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I wasn't done but thanks for being a smart "ace" :)
Sorry but i hated those in ffxi for reason of not getting what I wanted done because i didn't like to play the jobs that ppl "required" to do stuff. That what will happen when jobs are defined and 2hr added.

When we see news about something that returns from FF11, it'is not necessary like it'll be the SAME. :) If the basic idea is good, it needs only to be elaborate and executed in the right manner (also very different from 11). And we are here to suggest the way.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I wasn't done but thanks for being a smart "ace" :)

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Most welcome :)

I suppose the abilities will be on their own internal cooldown, separate from the class change and skill equip cooldowns?

There was nothing like having to wait 10 minutes to use my MP restoration move prior to the update which added passive mp restoration but never getting a chance to use it since I kept changing to botanist or miner to gather materials. Running out of MP on a levequest back then was wonderful.

Now MP isn't so important anymore; but we still have to wait for skills to cooldown when we equip them instead of them having all their own internal cooldown counters.

Still, I suppose this will never change unless they make it so you can't change your skills if you're engaged in combat, instead of just by being in active mode.

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Originally Posted by Munba

When we see news about something that returns from FF11, it'is not necessary like it'll be the SAME. :) If the basic idea is good, it needs only to be elaborate and executed in the right manner (also very different from 11). And we are here to suggest the way.

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every mmo with definded classes is like that. Even WoW I had a few cases of "not having the right race/class/tree" combo and had to completely remake a character just to do that 1 event. : /
Aion same thing. Only job I could play well solo was claric.... by player deffinition was useless in anything pvp so no one when I played invited clarics. Guess how peeved I was : /

elitist really want ffxiv to be ffxi. No one can really enjoy a game run by elitists unless you conform. I tried playing how I got told and wasn't good at it because I wasn't having fun. I really don;t want this mmo suffer the same fate as every other mmo. I wanna play and enjoy it. Not be miserable.

"I like 2 Hour Abilities in FFXI because they helped you get out of a tough situation."

"But I don't want an automatic win button every 2 hours."

"2 hour abilities have never been an automatic win button, um HELLO!"

"But you just said... Look, if an ability allows you to win a fight you should otherwise lose, then that ability is a win button, no?"

"It depends on how SE implements it. The stronger the abilitiy, the longer the cooldown needs to be in order to balance it."

"But no fight in FFXIV takes longer than 15 minutes... so any cooldown beyond 15 minutes is unnecessary and redundant, wouldn't you agree?"

"But you don't want players using strong abilities every 15 minutes like super heroes LOL."

"Hmm... but if you are only using an ability once in every blue moon, then what is the point of even having it in the game?"

"The stronger the ability, the more class definition."

"But didnt you say earlier that strong abilities were undesirable because they made players into superheroes?"

"Not if they're only making players into superheroes once every two hours."

"Isn't that an unnecessary and contrived inconvenience?"

"Well it's even more inconvenient to have no 2-hour ability at all, amirite?"

"But if the cooldown is 2 hours or longer, people will be loath to use their 2 hour abilities for fear of needing it later, won't they?"

"Well you can't have infinite amounts of get-out-of-jail-free cards."

"Why not?"

"Imbalance issues."

"Speaking of imbalance, don't you think 2 Hour abilities will give players an unfair advantage in NM fights?"

"No, it is not an unfair advantage. It is a tactical advantage. Notice the difference."

"But won't 2 Hour abilities actually serve to reduce tactics by making players rely on their 2 Hour abilities for any NMs or bosses?"

"No because it gives players a tactical role to fulfill in those battles."

"In any case, if players are expected to have 2 Hours at the ready for such battles, then they will not use them to get out of tough spots when soloing. They will need to save their 2 Hours for later."

"Well it doesn't have to be a 2 hour cooldown. It can be shorter than that."

"That's what I was saying earlier. I think it should be shorter."

"But if the cooldown is shorter, then the ability has to be weaker."

"WTF."

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the possibility on 2 hour ability straight from the development team! Without further ado here's is what Akihiko Matsui, the FINAL FANTASY XIV Battle lead, had to say!

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Awesome! I loved the possibility of those 2hours implemented. As many people said, it's an ace in the sleeve. Having been a RDM in XI, I could use Chainspell in many different ways (spam stun, spam heals to save the party, spam magic attack, spam sleep etc...) and the fact that MP was needed made an extra care about MP management 'in case of'. And as said, a 2hour timer is mostly for emergency purpose or just because you could use it before logging.
The only drawbackI could think of is for fights that NEEDED the use of the 2hours as if wiped, you either had to wait 2hours (not cool) to try again or have a COR reset it when this job was released. Now, maybe that a NPC could just replenish it for a certain amount of gils for those who think that 2hr is too long (need more money sink anyways).
Ultima as a 2hour would be awesome :)

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

Awesome! I loved the possibility of those 2hours implemented. As many people said, it's an ace in the sleeve. Having been a RDM in XI, I could use Chainspell in many different ways (spam stun, spam heals to save the party, spam magic attack, spam sleep etc...) and the fact that MP was needed made an extra care about MP management 'in case of'. And as said, a 2hour timer is mostly for emergency purpose or just because you could use it before logging.
The only drawbackI could think of is for fights that NEEDED the use of the 2hours as if wiped, you either had to wait 2hours (not cool) to try again or have a COR reset it when this job was released. Now, maybe that a NPC could just replenish it for a certain amount of gils for those who think that 2hr is too long (need more money sink anyways).
Ultima as a 2hour would be awesome :)

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and that is why i know hate rdm....

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

and that is why i know hate rdm....

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Because they were awesome and very diversified? :D

honestly I'm kinda getting annoyed at elitist getting their way. It is too much to ask that i get to play my character that i made the way I want to, no matter if it a party or end game as long as I am helpful in taking the enemies down?
That should be a no it should be too much to ask for. That is my biggest pet peeve with mmo. People tell other how to play, and if said players don;t do what thet are told they get kicked, mocked and shouted about for being a bad player. @ hrs aided in that with ffxi. And defined classes for every mmo. What was worst was being forced to lvl drk even though no one invited them after a while (for stuning rdm) or ninja even when I was not a good tank (and they are only invited as tanks.).

Sorry but I don;t wanna be left out of activities because of how I choose to play, or what I use to play as. All 2hr and defined classes do is make it easier for that to happen. Tatics isn't about having x abilities or defined classes. Its about using what you DO HAVE in a plan.

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

Because they were awesome and very diversified? :D

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cuz no one played them correctly in a full rdm sence. AkA making them backline mages when infact a rdm was not a backline class. They wore meduim armor and used swords. Healing skill was one of their weaker skills. And ppl got made when I refused to backline because I stunk at it due to boredum.

More skills don't = more tactics. tactics Like I said are using what you do have. @ hrs were not tactical. More or less an I win button as gift said. And this caused alot of jobs to get benched because of "tactics" to defeating bosses for missions nms endgame. Just me on this they are not that good if it will cause ppl to be like that again. I don;t wanna have to worry about leveling jobs i'm not good at their role or don;t like because an even "requires" them. Nir do I want to be forced to craft only because of not enjoying that.

I can't believe half of you guys saying it should not be added -.-. Get out of here if you don't like it 2hour was one of the best stuff in the game. DRK sure you miss that because 75% of players where dumb and could not even level up DRK right. Hello don't you remember when DRK was never welcome to party because it was play by noob who though it was a cool class? I meet a lot of good DRK who never miss with DRK 2hours so i'm sorry every two hour in the game was useful for something.

I welcome 1 or 2 hour for sure :) 30min is too short for this type of action.

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It is too much to ask that i get to play my character that i made the way I want to, no matter if it a party or end game

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When you play with other people, you are expected to put in basic effort and not act like an idiot. It's not your 12,95, it's our 64,75.

If you do not accept the terms of the group, you do not deserve to participate.

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Originally Posted by Maat

2hr abilities in XI were basically a special move that your job was given from the beginning. The benefits from the ability were so great that it took 2 hours before you could use it again. I am personally for a 2hr it wil help distinguish classes better. But I wanna know what every one thinks about it. So YES if you agree, and if NO explain why?

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No thanks, every skill over 5 minutes does not worth to be implemented. I wanna use skills, not "hey, maybe it's time, maybe not..."

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

cuz no one played them correctly in a full rdm sence. AkA making them backline mages when infact a rdm was not a backline class. They wore meduim armor and used swords. Healing skill was one of their weaker skills. And ppl got made when I refused to backline because I stunk at it due to boredum.

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You were doing it all wrong then. My RDM was my main and it was very well geared and merited. I would keep the entire party fully healed, refreshed, hasted, buffed with prot and shell. I would also manage my MP perfectly for debuffs such as my slows, paralyzes, sleeps for adds all perfectly timed to when my 10 min ocnvert would be up I would be full MP again. Me keeping the party at full and healing massive spike damage the second the player took a hit iwth my 70% fast cast made me tank half the time. I would keep stoneskin and phalanx up full time and when I did pull hate I would immediately recast stone skin, once it broke it was right back up. I was a god. I had the pefect gear sets for different magic swaps. It was extremely fun. 2 hours made me a beast and I would try to use them every 2 hours without any fear but obviously plan ahead if I have a future raid later.

It felt good and people enjoyed my skittles, they always came back to taste my rainbow~

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

No thanks, every skill over 5 minutes does not worth to be implemented. I wanna use skills, not "hey, maybe it's time, maybe not..."

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"Having to strategize gives me a headache."

You guys realy need to think of the cons before asking for stuff like that. And limiting the classes in what they can do or partake in will be a step back in the game.

If i as a 75/dnc monk in cheap basically useless gear with an elvaan whitemage in roughly 4 hours duo all 6 prime avatar w/o use of 2hr. I don't think we need to have petty limitations on stuff.
I just want to play the game and have fun, not be limited in what I can do. I missed out alot of ffxi and had stuff benched because of the limitations.
I have been on divine might for 4 years with the ark item all because i don't have a job 75+ ppl want. And it was a job or jobs i didn't like playing :/

sorry spuff by you telling me i did it wrong is exactly what i mean.
You don't know who I played rdm. Nor why i have a strong stance that I do.
I got told off for just meleeing. I did everything i needed of me while meleeing. But just because I meleed i was told i played wrong. There is no suck thing as playing wrong. Unless your a whm who refuses to heal... thats a different story. If i'm doing what the party needs from me based on what my job is, It shouldn't matter if I melee or not. I only got rdm to 70. After all the crap I had to put up with I "raged quit" it. I was upfront with people and nice about it. I told them how I played rdm and no one liked it, made nasty shouts about me. All because I refused to main heal as a rdm and was the only rdm around. I play a game to have fun. rdm is wasn't just a healer infact by skill levels it was one of the worst. Their main focus was enchancing and debuffing while meleeing a mob with sword enchancement. I played rdm very well didn't miss a step with refresh

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

soory spuff by you telling me i did it wrong is exactly what i mean.

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It all depends on the player. And I can tell that you weren't trying hard let alone even cared to achieve what allowed all jobs to unlock their true full potential.

I wouldn't mind having 2hours again. I would take anything that would make the classes more unique.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

cuz no one played them correctly in a full rdm sence. AkA making them backline mages when infact a rdm was not a backline class. They wore meduim armor and used swords. Healing skill was one of their weaker skills. And ppl got made when I refused to backline because I stunk at it due to boredum.

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hey there, guess what RDM's sword skill was only B or C (before 75 cap raise).
they had enfeebling as the strongest skill and that makes them backline class and you are mad because others are mad you wanted to play as melee RDM? *loses out few brain cells*

MMO isnt about yourself, you can melee with fork for all i care in your own free time, but when you are in party, you have to learn how to not waste anyone's time, you have to know how to maximize/optimize your performance for everyone's sake, when you are in EXP party, everyone wants the best EXP/HOUR.. how does a RDM helps out in maximizing EXP/HOUR? definitely not by melee-ing.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

When you play with other people, you are expected to put in basic effort and not act like an idiot. It's not your 12,95, it's our 64,75.

If you do not accept the terms of the group, you do not deserve to participate.

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i never acted like an idiot. not once in an mmo. I might have been silly. But i always did was was needed from me based on the job I was.

Not my fault you take a game to seriously like every other elitist.
iv'e done stuff out of the norm and still succeded.

I feel like you haven't even played 14, Kilta.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Not my fault you take a game to seriously like every other elitist.

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And it's not my fault with an attitude like that you are treated like trash. If you are not willing to bend to the norms of the community, why should you be able to participate in their activities? Find other "unique snowflakes" to play with and ridicule "the elitests dat ruin dis gaem" if you're not willing to obey the rules of the in-game society.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

hey there, guess what RDM's sword skill was only B or C (before 75 cap raise).
they had enfeebling as the strongest skill and that makes them backline class and you are mad because others are mad you wanted to play as melee RDM? *loses out few brain cells*

MMO isnt about yourself, you can melee with fork for all i care in your own free time, but when you are in party, you have to learn how to not waste anyone's time, you have to know how to maximize/optimize your performance for everyone's sake, when you are in EXP party, everyone wants the best EXP/HOUR.. how does a RDM helps out in maximizing EXP/HOUR? definitely not by melee-ing.

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you do know you can enfeeble and melee at the same time right....
i can and have while melee
sub cured
enfeebled
refreshed and kept up refresh on 3-4 magic users (w/o being told)
and kept up my own enchanments. w.o needing much rest. And did side nuking never got hate from it. And just about all my skills stayed capped till lvl60. :)

nice trashy attitude guys... you guys are so stuck in your eitism. You don;t truely know how well I played mmos. or my job/classes. no one has the right to order others around under the same ruling of "mmo are not about you." i never had an mp issue while meleeing as a rdm in parties. And the "norm" was ppl so set in 1 way they never really tried others. Or relayed to heavily on 1 plan. I did stuff that wasn't "the norm" and still succeded in what i did. Why should I be forced to play "your way" in a game if I don;t find it fun? or am crappy @. I woulda lvled up ninja if I wasn't forced to tank.

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Why should I be forced to play "your way" in a game if I don;t find it fun?

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You are free to play alone, then. This is not an offline game, you are playing with other people, and if you act like you own this game by doing whatever you want these other people are going to not let you participate. This is pretty damn simple. You don't respect them, they don't respect you.

Games are meant to be enjoyed not work. MMo are games not work.
If anyone wants to tell me how to play they better pay for my account. No wonder why ppl find ffxiv crappy.... it discourages elitism. Now because the elitist are also cry babies about the stupidest of things, the game is getting changed to promote it. thank guys.. really thanks very much there go another game lost to "work"

"I can't do anything I want in a game with other people and they don't exist just to please me. Sniff sniff"

You have my sympathies, you really do.

(lol)

This might be a good time to point out that a single person's experiences as a melee Redmage has absolutely no bearing on the situation, just as the rest of you commoners with your petty arguments have no bearing on the discussion either, they being so weak and poorly thought out. Only a commoner of such low intelligence as yourselves would not be able to see the wood for the trees, as it were. Oh, but I've gotten ahead of myself. As I was previously explaining, in such layman's terms so that you might understand, Two Hour abilities are most assuredly not the way to go. It is Twenty Two Hour abilities that we need to be endorsing. Two Hours is nothing compared to Twenty Two Hours. That much is obvious. I leave the rest to you.

Yours Sincerely,

Sir. "Amazing" Gifthorse.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You are free to play alone, then. This is not an offline game, you are playing with other people, and if you act like you own this game by doing whatever you want these other people are going to not let you participate. This is pretty damn simple. You don't respect them, they don't respect you.

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i'm not an idiot...... I've played mmo since ps2 release of ffxi, i played over 30 mmo mix of pay and free to play. I basicaly know every archtype.
I never acted like a moron when playing and I always did what I could to contribute to the party. My melee rdm also was faster then some backline whms since i melee. I was closer to the party and had quicker targeting. I also payed attention to hp/mp and the chat log when enf wore. I also could see when to dispel faster. Rdm imo are better if they melee. Not backline. Also fyi..... ff the first 1 had a rdm... it wasn't back line i looked it up. Like I said just about all my magic skills + sword were capped till level 60.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You are free to play alone, then. This is not an offline game, you are playing with other people, and if you act like you own this game by doing whatever you want these other people are going to not let you participate. This is pretty damn simple. You don't respect them, they don't respect you.

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this really, when you decide to melee as RDM, there are 1 happy guy which is you and 5 angry guys.. all you need to do is to learn to compromise, it is really not a hard concept.

also, i do not know how you can melee and enfeeble at the same time because you changed staff for every single enfeeble and cures? lol

and why are you comparing offline games and online games? every single debuffer on every single MMO is a BACKLINE job..


and my attempt to stay on topic, i am not sure what i feel about 2hour.. its definitely not what i am lookin for when i am playing right now.

Oh please, you are arguing over semantics. The sooner you realise the proof is in the pudding, the sooner you will realise that your salvation lies in the order of magnitute of Twenty Two and not Two at all.

Silly geese.

Yours Sincerely,

Sir. "Amazing" Gifthorse.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

"I can't do anything I want in a game with other people and they don't exist just to please me. Sniff sniff"

You have my sympathies, you really do.

(lol)

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i'm not acting like that actuallky you are... your not even truely reading what I said. And yes this is ontopic as the crap I had is a epic con of 2hr and defined classes and so are the replies i'm getting for sorry excuses of mmo players.

sorry there is more then 1 way to play each class/job in mmo. And that is based on players skills. I was a skilled at rdm for how I played stop acting like ALL i did was melee which wasn't the case. I did everything but backline main healed. heck even before the updates to dancer as /war i out lastred a pld @ level 30 on a full hp dhamal after the pld died and ut selfcured to full. I was in crap gear with 1 dagger. I just did what I could to survive and no one 2hr but me. tword the end. I tanked that sucker good as dnc lol.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

this really, when you decide to melee as RDM, there are 1 happy guy which is you and 5 angry guys.. all you need to do is to learn to compromise, it is really not a hard concept.

also, i do not know how you can melee and enfeeble at the same time because you changed staff for every single enfeeble and cures? lol

and why are you comparing offline games and online games? every single debuffer on every single MMO is a BACKLINE job..


and my attempt to stay on topic, i am not sure what i feel about 2hour.. its definitely not what i am lookin for when i am playing right now.

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umm this was pre 75 dude..... and tbh I tried those staves out myself and really saw no difference in my casting. Only 1 i kept was dark staff for mp.
I rarely missed my enf and if I did I made sure no one was introuble or in need of refresh to cast again. I also made sure to keep up my refresh to make sure I didn't run outa mp. those staves were a luxery not a "must have".

dance is a debuffer also.. as is blu... >.> last i check they wre frontline. as was rdm sword is proof. so was ninja also.
anfd i am on topic actually. This is my argumeant against 2hr and defined classes. cuz elitsts can cut it when ppl play to have fun :) and fear a hybrid class. Like i said repeated i done stuff in mmo that was the norm and I was good at it. its not how you play, its how WELL you play with how you play. If i am a good rdm w/o conforming to "the elitist ways" that all should matter. I said i keot everything up refresh debuffs part and self enchancements w/o consuming too much mp as well as side healing. I was quick and paid attention. Most importent I had fun. Which is what games are about. If i don't have fun, what is the point? and why should "your fun" out rank mine? If i'm doing what my class is suppose to do. who carwes how I play as long as I do the basic of my class why should melee be an issue?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

umm this was pre 75 dude..... and tbh I tried those staves out myself and really saw no difference in my casting. Only 1 i kept was dark staff for mp.
I rarely missed my enf and if I did I made sure no one was introuble or in need of refresh to cast again. I also made sure to keep up my refresh to make sure I didn't run outa mp. those staves were a luxery not a "must have".

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

dance is a debuffer also.. as is blu... >.> last i check they wre frontline. as was rdm sword is proof. so was ninja also.

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i rest my case, i had fun reading your posts.
i am an idiot for even trying to talk with you.. i sincerely apologize lol.

so many simply false statements in this post i dont even know where to begin...
well here we go

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

would be useless addition imo and Ak said nothing correctly or forgot major cons of 1/2 of what they said.

rdm 2hr is only good if you have mana. well its a mage doh
blu 2hr is only good with certain spell set ups. of course its more efficient when you set up your spells right
ninja 2hr was useless (as death in a fight was pointless) the damage was bad but it allowed you to escape bad situations and get up again not weakened
dnc was useless unless you were healing. it was for survivabillity, and every good dancer should throw out a waltz for the party here and there to ease the whms job
blm was useless as casting was slow and even if you spammed you still would gey aggro (dead blm is a useless blm) manafont made your spells free and uninterruptable thats far away from useless even if its just for the saving self warp
pld is useless if you don;t have hate or near dead to begin with. Invincible also draws the enemy to you so you automatically have hate when you use it in most cases
whm got aggro no matter what they got hate but they heal the entire party full, if its a close fight whm falls others kill it and whm has reraise on anyway
sam got aggro no matter what and why did he get aggro? because you could inflict badass damage with a self light skillchain that takes a large chunk off the mobs hp, and with seigan and nin sub you can survive it until the tank has it back
cor is to random well cor has the chance to set all other party members 2hr timer to 0 so it should be random or it would be broken
brd was pointless lol just lol i dont even have to say why thats BS
smn was too over powered and was a complete lie based on description. its only strong in the beginning but has a big aoe what is undesireable in XI, outside of the smnburns it was only useful for getting rid of the perpetuation cost for its duration
war was useless as unless you had epic acc you miss every swing just about. a good war should have decent acc
mnk same thing w/o acc you miss alot same as above, are you really saying "its only good if it hits the enemy?" cause that goes for every attack, period
thf rarely get aggro in a fight and even still theuir 2hr barely last long enough to survive anything it was long enough for the thf to juggle some hate or the tank to claim it back most of the time
puppetmaster was pointless unless your puppet was out with decent attachments not an argument, "it isnt good when i dont give a damn about the equipment" is not a reason why it would "suck"
drg was pointless if no dragon was out. a dragoon without the wyvern is screwed to begin with
sch was useless all it did was what the strag did again releasing the limiter on your abillities is not what i would call useless, if you ran out of stratagem charges it could be a livesaver for you and your party

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as for the "2hr is a win button" no, its a powerful tool but by far not that powerful and 2 hours is a long time so you will see it only once per event for the shorter ones.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You are free to play alone, then. This is not an offline game, you are playing with other people, and if you act like you own this game by doing whatever you want these other people are going to not let you participate. This is pretty damn simple. You don't respect them, they don't respect you.

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Granted we all play as part of a community, so there needs to be some compromises, but this whole "you must conform or GTFO" attitude is, in my opinion, not a healthy or constructive one and certainly not one which speaks to me of respect which, after all, is a two-way street: give a little, get a little. I also find it a little bit worrisome because one of the things I really like about FFXIV is the flexibility in equipping abilities and I would hate to see that flexibility get lost.


Speaking to the main topic of this thread... I think that I would rather not see 2-hours added to FFXIV. They worked well enough in FFXI, I suppose (though some were less useful than others), but I think that they were one of the things that made FFXI's system unique and would rather see FFXIV find its own voice, as it were. I also don't thing that 2-hours were really all that strategic, other than making a fight a little easier once every two hours.