Garuda's Difficulty

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Only problem I seem to have with Garuda is the WHM always dying to AB, so the rest of us get no cures after it in phase 2, meaning we're all dead. BRDs forget to raise or they're flat out dead too.

It's almost as if when Phase 2 happens, everyone immediately drops what they're doing, throw their hands up and start running around, flailing and screaming.

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Plus people still refuse to buy the obligatory Phoenix Down wannabe for just that occasion.

I'm going to say it like this... you all whined about the bosses are too easy now the team gave you what you wanted... if you go in and get slapped around... the game is not going to end... that simply means quit crying and making excuses, dust yourself off and keep trying. only YOU can win this fight. If you say you're "the best" at your job then prove it beat Garuda. Until then shut up because you got beat by a girl.....

This is how bad player think :

Not my problem, this time whm sux
Not my problem, this time brd sux
Not my problem, this time xyz sux
I can tank (but asking how to hold hate) or
Don't tell me what to do coz i know my job 'very well'
Oh Lag, Lag make me cant do this but keep doing it (wth u thinking u doing something cant be done coz too lag?)
Oh my gear sux (If you cant spend sometimes(gil/seal farming) to pimp your job a little, i can see how 'skilled' you are. )

Here is strat

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Lodestone-Blog

Exactly no matter how good your gear is when it all comes down to knowing the precision of your job its either you got it or you don't. Gear is not going to give you the ability to make you play better thats all based on you and if you were Power Leveled then you might as well not go and hang it up. cause you know a thing about that job.

Yes people can still kill it, no you don't need the best gear possible, yes it is based on skill, no you don't need to manaburn it.

How to kill Garuda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuaC3K8YpVA&

Also slightly amusing to see a thread asking if it's possible to kill Garuda after fix when the first kill was a non-manaburn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_hIFlwnyA

I personally found this video more accurate.

Doing Garuda with Japanese latency is a huge advantage, as is Ifrit Extreme. A one second delay is a pretty big deal in technical fights.

Yet first kill went to NA, its amazing people bring up latency in garuda fight, shows how clueless you are about the fight.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yet first kill went to NA, its amazing people bring up latency in garuda fight, shows how clueless you are about the fight.

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Oh? And yet you seem to agree that in the Ifrit Extreme fight it makes a difference, judging by the fact that you ignored that.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Very well, our biggest problem are the plumes, we have the DDs on plume duty, same as anyone else, and we do very well at getting them down quick. However, people get hit by AoEs even when they are clearly behind the pillars, We also are getting overwhelmed by the final plume barrage at 50%. We're lucky if anyone other than the tank survives AB.

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How long does it take for you to get from the claim to AB? How many teleport moves does she do before AB? If you're getting more than 2 teleports and taking more than 3,5 minutes your problem might be your DPS on Garuda (too slow). If you only get 2 teleports and get to AB within 3,5 minutes from the claim, the problem is not killing the plumes fast enough.

As for getting hit by her moves even though you are behind pillars, I've never ever seen that happen. No one should get hit by her moves in phase 1 (well our tank sometimes does and that's not a problem). Can you post a video of this happening? I'm just curious to see it as I never have.

The last set of plumes is usually 2 or 3 normal sets in a row. We rarely if ever kill them all but if you've done well until that point, it's not a problem. As a BRD, I usually skip shooting the plumes at certain point and instead focus on preparing for AB (Sacred Prism + Stoneskin, BV song, cures if someone isn't full HP).

What kind of setup are you using? Do you have 2 or 3 people on plume duty (and on which jobs) and the others DPSing Garuda full time? Do your plume people also do dmg on Garuda? How's your accuracy, do people keep missing their weaponskills and getting resists on their spells?

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Originally Posted by Grimwald

Doing Garuda with Japanese latency is a huge advantage, as is Ifrit Extreme. A one second delay is a pretty big deal in technical fights.

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You cant do that somebody can do with same latency, so mean you are good(skilled????) player? Is your little bro behind the controller?

P.S. nobody said the latency make no different, but that's not main factor.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yet first kill went to NA, its amazing people bring up latency in garuda fight, shows how clueless you are about the fight.

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How is latency not an issue during that fight?
I've only tried Garuda a couple of times, but our main problem was always avoiding her attacks during phase 2. Even when we were standing in the middle of the area and moved to the opposite side or behind her almost right the moment she reappeared, it still wasn't always enough.

I'm sure it can be done somehow - I'm certainly not arguing with that. But having less latency and thus more time to get out of the way should make it a good deal easier.

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Originally Posted by Taika

As for getting hit by her moves even though you are behind pillars, I've never ever seen that happen.

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That constantly happened to me at first too, but only when I was too slow to get behind the pillar. It's pretty much the same as with Ifrit really: You can get hit by eruptions or plumes even if you're already 10 yalms away, but it shouldn't happen if you move out of the way fast enough.

(edit: Oh, didn't even notice it's you! /wave Evy :D )

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Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

You cant do that somebody can do with same latency, so mean you are good(skilled????) player? Is your little bro behind the controller?

P.S. nobody said the latency make no different, but that's not main factor.

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LATENCY IS. THE. MAIN. FACTOR. FOR CHRIST SAKE

How do you think i'm able to NOT GETTING HIT BY ANYTHING BECAUSE I'M ACTUALLY ABLE TO DODGE THE FIRE IN World of Warcraft?

THIS is NOT possible in FFXIV.

God damnit Square is this your first MMO you made?

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Originally Posted by Grimwald

Oh? And yet you seem to agree that in the Ifrit Extreme fight it makes a difference, judging by the fact that you ignored that.

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I didnt comment on ifrit extreme bc i didnt experience it yet and act like i know it all, neither did i say there is no latency issue in garuda fight, just merely saying latency has not much impact in that fight die to how it works.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

I'm wondering if anyone has beaten Garuda since they fixed the manaburn exploit, because it seems like she is unbeatable now. If someone has done so, would they be kind enough to explain how they did it? If not, are there any plans on the devs part for additional adjustments?

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Yes people have beaten Garuda since they fixed the exploit.
You simply learn the fight until you have it down and win; most likely with the help of a good linkshell.

I don't know how this thread is still moving.

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Originally Posted by Risae

LATENCY IS. THE. MAIN. FACTOR. FOR CHRIST SAKE

How do you think i'm able to NOT GETTING HIT BY ANYTHING BECAUSE I'M ACTUALLY ABLE TO DODGE THE FIRE IN World of Warcraft?

THIS is NOT possible in FFXIV.

God damnit Square is this your first MMO you made?

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You see it? my small factor became you MAIN FACTOR. Please dun compare ffxiv to hellokittyonline, i felt insulted.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

Yes people have beaten Garuda since they fixed the exploit.
You simply learn the fight until you have it down and win; most likely with the help of a good linkshell.

I don't know how this thread is still moving.

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This thread still going coz some Good Player said bad latency make the fight impossible. But they are GOOD PLAYER.

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Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

You see it? my small factor became you MAIN FACTOR. Please dun compare ffxiv to hellokittyonline, i felt insulted.

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Do you even know what the hell you're playing?

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Originally Posted by Risae

Do you even know what the hell you're playing?

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I know but do you?

If you can't adjust to latency (which is a real problem recognized by SE long ago and probably the main reason why 2.0 was developed) to beat Garuda, I think you're overestimating your skills ...

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Originally Posted by Risae

LATENCY IS. THE. MAIN. FACTOR. FOR CHRIST SAKE

How do you think i'm able to NOT GETTING HIT BY ANYTHING BECAUSE I'M ACTUALLY ABLE TO DODGE THE FIRE IN World of Warcraft?

THIS is NOT possible in FFXIV.

God damnit Square is this your first MMO you made?

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Nah FFXI is terrible too, but it benefited the JP playerbase a ton so there really wasn't a reason to change it.

recently it almost seems "latency" is used to cover up how much someone sucks >.> If it were true then the majority of nonJP residents would be having a hard time, which is not actually the case at all.

i think its just a bit of practice and knowing when to time and forsee things. Like someone said, its not hello kitty online so in harder instances obviously its gonna be too late if your relying solely on sight. Its a combo of main window, mob log, mini map, skill combo, camera, and forseeing when the next movement is. There is a crap load of garuda videos out there take from diff. classes. Use those to see what order of skills they use which could help you.

Our LS does it at a very decent rate. Not all of us have uber gear. The pt isnt a static since we rotate pple in most of the time. We have pple that live on the east and west coast.

Its not that garuda is too hard. Its more the instances before that was too easy. Too easy that pple think they can go ahead to the new contents without evolving themselves.

I found this video pretty good if people are struggling with positioning. Doesn't show the fight itself but it's well explained:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=_6jQwGgy_Ek

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Originally Posted by Efrye

How is latency not an issue during that fight?
I've only tried Garuda a couple of times, but our main problem was always avoiding her attacks during phase 2. Even when we were standing in the middle of the area and moved to the opposite side or behind her almost right the moment she reappeared, it still wasn't always enough.

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Latency certainly is an issue, but it's not that big of a handycap usually.

The actually graphical display of mob models is lagging behind heavily, so the only option is to look at the minimap for her position. It's the same as looking at chat for Ifrit readying eruption.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Very well, our biggest problem are the plumes, we have the DDs on plume duty, same as anyone else, and we do very well at getting them down quick. However, people get hit by AoEs even when they are clearly behind the pillars, We also are getting overwhelmed by the final plume barrage at 50%. We're lucky if anyone other than the tank survives AB.

As I said before, our gear is reasonaly fine for the fight, and eveyone knows what they are supposed to do. So what pray tell is the fatal flaw?

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Uni the issue is we are not putting together win groups we are just throwing together whomever signs up and not worrying about classes, gear, or skill we are doing it for fun, if we just wanted to win then we would stack a group of our best players and do it, that's not what we have been going for we have been going for team building experience for future 24 man content.

PS: not sure if you are talking about Seraphim groups or not but just in case you are the above is the reason

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

The actually graphical display of mob models is lagging behind heavily, so the only option is to look at the minimap for her position. It's the same as looking at chat for Ifrit readying eruption.

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Yeah, the mini map definitely deserves a lot of attention during that fight. I oftentimes pull it right beneath my character so I can keep track of her position at all times. I never noticed a big difference between times her mesh shows up and her mini map dot shows up, however I can only look in one direction after all. If she spawns behind me, the mini map is the only way to know.

Well, the only way apart from finding myself dead on the floor. That's usually a good indicator that she was behind me after all.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Only problem I seem to have with Garuda is the WHM always dying to AB, so the rest of us get no cures after it in phase 2, meaning we're all dead. BRDs forget to raise or they're flat out dead too.

It's almost as if when Phase 2 happens, everyone immediately drops what they're doing, throw their hands up and start running around, flailing and screaming.

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You should know when AB is coming so the WHM should be getting everyone topped off have your BRD stoneskin everyone and make sure your WHM is using sentinel. Another thing you can try is having 2 WHM it makes it a bit easier post AB. In phase one though before AB have the second whm using stone/stonera on Garuda, its extra damage + adds a debuff that help BLM do more damage. Something very Important, after AB everyone gathers in the middle behind garuda its much easier to get behind garuda if she teleports if you are in the middle. If she teleports far away don't try to get behind her, run away from her after her attack get back in the middle.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yet first kill went to NA, its amazing people bring up latency in garuda fight, shows how clueless you are about the fight.

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Remember: NA/EU players can't kill Ifrit or Garuda due to latency or Lag. Anyone you know who killed it that isn't Japanese simply just happens to live in Japan....yeah.

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Originally Posted by Risae

LATENCY IS. THE. MAIN. FACTOR. FOR CHRIST SAKE

How do you think i'm able to NOT GETTING HIT BY ANYTHING BECAUSE I'M ACTUALLY ABLE TO DODGE THE FIRE IN World of Warcraft?

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Simply get better? I'm sorry but we're done with blaming latency on not being able to kill a primal since early 2011 when people realized "maybe I just need to get better."

Latency problems exist, as does Animation lag, but guess what? People use it as an excuse when they fail at their part of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Risae

Do you even know what the hell you're playing?

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I'll be honest, only people who suck at dodging continue to blame latency. Do you blame latency when you can't dodge a Dodo burping or farting on you?

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Uni the issue is we are not putting together win groups we are just throwing together whomever signs up and not worrying about classes, gear, or skill we are doing it for fun, if we just wanted to win then we would stack a group of our best players and do it, that's not what we have been going for we have been going for team building experience for future 24 man content.

PS: not sure if you are talking about Seraphim groups or not but just in case you are the above is the reason

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^ This person knows how an MMO is. You can win even with going in for fun, however blaming latency is so late 2010 early 2011..it's time to admit when one is just simply not good at dodging.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

I never noticed a big difference between times her mesh shows up and her mini map dot shows up, however I can only look in one direction after all. If she spawns behind me, the mini map is the only way to know.

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Then maybe your latency is better than mine. For me there is a second to two delay between them appearing on minimap and them appearing on my screen.

Moogle is the best example for that actually. I start running to the spot the moogle is on the minimap and arrive there before the moogle actually appears on my screen, usually. With Garuda it's somehow less, but that second still saves you most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Then maybe your latency is better than mine. For me there is a second to two delay between them appearing on minimap and them appearing on my screen.

Moogle is the best example for that actually. I start running to the spot the moogle is on the minimap and arrive there before the moogle actually appears on my screen, usually. With Garuda it's somehow less, but that second still saves you most of the time.

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Then you are having latency+slow computer load. And therein lies the trick. A lot of the 'latency whiners' actually have machines that struggle to load...at least at times. Especially in highly poplulated zones and Primal fights (where there is a lot going on as well). You could be sitting in SE's office with the servers in the room next door and still have this problem. Try turning down settings on your computer, or rely solely on chat logs+map...or consider saving for a better rig. But the honest truth is this, some people, even highly skilled players, can't win these battles atm simply due to their computers ability to handle and process the game quickly. This isn't a latency problem...at least not 100% latency

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Then you are having latency+slow computer load. And therein lies the trick. A lot of the 'latency whiners' actually have machines that struggle to load...at least at times.

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Latency, yes. Loading times, no. I have a (good) SSD, so file loading times are not an issue. My GPU is powerful enough to not deep under 30fps most of the time, and at the moment this is happening in moogle, it runs at ~50ish. Moogle is the only fight where I'm having more than a second delay on models displaying.

The rest is communication between my client and the server -> latency. Also remember, SE said that slow NPC load is due to server architecture, not PC power. That was back at 1.02 or something.

I'm not blaming latency on me failing simply because I don't. I can't find a group to even consider doing Garuda, so all I did so far is killing the mini one.

The skill vs gear debate with Garuda is a good example.

You need to think of a graph to compare the two. With Garuda DPS as the main variable.
(Because the quicker she dies, the less hassle it is to win)

If you have high skill but crappy gear, as long as the two graph lines intersect over the required DPS for Garuda
then you are skilled enough.

If you aren't quite skilled enough, you can get better gear to bring the gear line up until you are within the DPS for Garuda.

(There are videos of LS's using Reindeer Suits/Naked beating Ifrit, yet people in full Gear still die, this would be the two extremes

So for a lot of people that skill alone will never be enough to win Garuda.
Good gear is needed for this fight.

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Originally Posted by Curcio

The majority of the community hasn't even had a chance to touch Garuda. The majority of the population isn't doing Garuda because the majority of the population CAN'T do Garuda. They don't have melds, they don't have Darklight, and they don't have the weapons.

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You have just crushed all my hopes and dreams ;----;

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Remember: NA/EU players can't kill Ifrit or Garuda due to latency or Lag. Anyone you know who killed it that isn't Japanese simply just happens to live in Japan....yeah.



Simply get better? I'm sorry but we're done with blaming latency on not being able to kill a primal since early 2011 when people realized "maybe I just need to get better."

Latency problems exist, as does Animation lag, but guess what? People use it as an excuse when they fail at their part of the fight.



I'll be honest, only people who suck at dodging continue to blame latency. Do you blame latency when you can't dodge a Dodo burping or farting on you?



^ This person knows how an MMO is. You can win even with going in for fun, however blaming latency is so late 2010 early 2011..it's time to admit when one is just simply not good at dodging.

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Maybe i just need to get better? What? How the hell am i supposed to fight the boss AND latency?
Jesus.

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Originally Posted by Risae

Maybe i just need to get better? What? How the hell am i supposed to fight the boss AND latency?
Jesus.

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Obviously YOU cant.

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Originally Posted by Risae

Maybe i just need to get better? What? How the hell am i supposed to fight the boss AND latency?
Jesus.

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I suppose everyone who clears Garuda these days all live in Japan, huh?

I'm glad they made Garuda challenging...but it ticks me off that when I ask my ls to do her, most of them dont even want to try because we dont have "amazing gear"

I want to just try her! I even suggested going in just to see if we could learn a strat. And one ls member was like, "It's not just about the strat...if you dont have good enough gear, you'll fail." I wanna call bs on his statement. I just need enough willing people to help me fight her.

I like a good challenge. I feel like I never get angry over anything, and when my parties die in game, I simply laugh while everyone else rages. It's just patience. Trust me, I would be THRILLED to join a Garuda party over and over and over.

One more thing:

The one time people die, people start getting testy with each other. It's about keeping cool, having fun, and great teamwork and skill, as mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Curcio

The majority of the community hasn't even had a chance to touch Garuda. The majority of the population isn't doing Garuda because the majority of the population CAN'T do Garuda. They don't have melds, they don't have Darklight, and they don't have the weapons.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

You have just crushed all my hopes and dreams ;----;

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you dont NEED darklight gear... we do fine without it. Its just keeping enough acc and dmg, whether its by food or materia or a combo of AF.

Only thing is, you DO need to practice alot. Pple can tell you how to do it, but until you see and feel the timings for yourself, it will feel like its impossible.

Maybe for those who want to try garuda more, try posting on the forums or something to see if pple are willing to do some statics?

People are really complaining about latency issues on Garuda? lol? Just freaking pay attention to your game and watch when she tele's. It really isn't that hard.