Should the devs appologise to the community

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Originally Posted by Snorky

Changing the goal posts again stormy and please point to where I said that anyone said the game is dying ? The doom posting is ridiculous on this forum

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Its stormy....their alts are more reasonable but yeah....don't expect a proper engagement without some good old fashioned goal post shifting and narrative twists :P

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Yoshida should personally come to my house and apologise for adding the loporrits to the game.

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1161/image.png

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1161/image.png

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I love Lopporits lol.

When I knew them they looked like this tho...

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.1299f72b...pid=ImgRaw&r=0

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I love Lopporits lol.

When I knew them they looked like this tho...

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.1299f72b...pid=ImgRaw&r=0

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Me too, to be honest - although still found that meme, as well as the one you posted, funny! :)

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Me too, to be honest - although still found that meme, as well as the one you posted, funny! :)

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It's pretty hilarious - though for me I'd be like "What the hell is this!? ... And why do I want more of them!?"

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Originally Posted by kaynide

No;

The only REAL way to create change in a game is for enough people to become unsatisfied enough that it hurts a company financially. As in unsub and move on.

Sure, the game devs want you to enjoy their game, but they really only have whatever statistics they have to steer in the direction that results in the most players doing "a thing". Flawed or not, if a player keeps paying their sub, the devs don't really have any reason to course correct THAT much.

Listening and doing what people say to do on a place like this, full of us armchair game makers, is folly. For every person that wants X, someone else wants not X.

If you want to stay onboard and STILL hope to make change this late in the game's life, you know how they work: If you don't like a particular kind of content, just don't do it. If enough people don't do the thing, they'll stop making "the thing". And if enough keep doing/do more of "that other thing", SE will make more of "the other thing".

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Very true. Look no further than what YoshiP said about relic engagement. More people did it after it was dumbed down so it's a success. More players play SMN now as well as far as I've heard. It's a bad metric I think but hey, if SE listens to that then who am I to argue. /shrug

I don't need an apology. Aside from a relic grind, we got everything they said they'd deliver. Raids, trials, dungeons, quests, crafting content, the island, Ishgard housing, a deep dungeon, criterion and a pvp update that got me to pvp regularly for the first time in 8 years. Now it's too late for them to provide a relic quest, but I guess they'll make a different one next time. I didn't like Eureka or Bozja relics either so this is not something that ruins the game for me.

I've had different focuses over the years, from mentoring, deep dungeon soloing, savage raiding and housing into hunting. Still got plenty to do and try. I think a lot of players who experience a lack of content have never really delved into any aspect of the game very deeply.

Oh please, they already apologize all the time. Yoshi P even cries on stream.

Crocodile tears, I'd rather have them show their true colors than offer fake apologies.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Please try to leave constructive replies instead of just saying anything to be heard
I've been toying with this question in my mind basically since around 6.2 when it became obvious this game was'nt going to deliver any real of meaningful change.. seeing the clear nature of the cash shop and the exploitation in the games current content output vs what we pay our sub for, anbd ofcourse that 7.0 will be a min of 6months between patches of basically... nothing...

should the developers appologise for the state of the game?

and if not... what level of accountability SHOULD we hold them to? if any..

(ofcourse this is just a question i am not demanding this or that people do this so please read it properly before you start attacking me)

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I mean Yoshi will give the same apology he gave on the second anniversary about being sorry for not listening to the fans and so on.

I mean this in an honest manner and not an attack, what do you feel they need to apologize for? What statement or promise did they make that they didn't follow through on and didn't explain why?

If it's just a situation where you didn't like what was presented and you felt they should make certain changes that they never said would be made, then that's not anything they would need to apologize for.

If they didn't follow through on something they said, then we can review that and decide if there's something to apologize for there.

They don't need to apologize. Actually, no. There is one thing they could apologize for. The state of Materia DC and the lack of any acknowledgement, concern or attention in addressing us being left to the void.

Should the community apologize to the developers?

Discuss.

Anything they say will be taken as PR talk anyway. Pretty sure some people will even get very upset with their apologies.

So, I think they don't need to apologize.

They can, however, admit their mistakes and start making changes.

I'd say yes if they failed to give us what was promised. This was not the case. They gave us exactly that. If you liked it r not is on you. Nothing they've put out has been unfun opinion. It's the reward structure that seems to be the main issue. What folks do need to realize is that XIV isn't a hard ore MMO. The game isn't trying to monopolize your time and as such long grinds aren't the focus.

They don't have to apologize but I'll also say, you don't have to give them money every month if you're not happy either.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The problem is further escalated with the deliberate decision to deny players an equivalent to Ishgard Reconstruction and Eureka/Bozja which both proved successful at keeping many veteran players engaged with something to do beyond running roulettes for tomestones.

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Not including content that they never said was coming is not deliberately denying anything. In Stormblood, I could have said that they deliberately denied me a relic by tying it to exploratory content because I prefer the ARR and HW style. But they never promised me that style of relic quest so my claiming that they denied me anything is wrong. They simply went another way with that content in the next expansion. And I gave them my feedback by not participating in it.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Please try to leave constructive replies instead of just saying anything to be heard
I've been toying with this question in my mind basically since around 6.2 when it became obvious this game was'nt going to deliver any real of meaningful change.. seeing the clear nature of the cash shop and the exploitation in the games current content output vs what we pay our sub for, anbd ofcourse that 7.0 will be a min of 6months between patches of basically... nothing...

should the developers appologise for the state of the game?

and if not... what level of accountability SHOULD we hold them to? if any..

(ofcourse this is just a question i am not demanding this or that people do this so please read it properly before you start attacking me)

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There's nothing to apologize for. We're in the content lull before a new expansion drops. People were whining about this between ShB and EW and that had a much longer delay due to the coof.

When the devs start doing some of the slimy things that Blizzard or EA do, that's when I call them out.

Not attacking you, just offering a counterpoint.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Not including content that they never said was coming is not deliberately denying anything. In Stormblood, I could have said that they deliberately denied me a relic by tying it to exploratory content because I prefer the ARR and HW style. But they never promised me that style of relic quest so my claiming that they denied me anything is wrong. They simply went another way with that content in the next expansion. And I gave them my feedback by not participating in it.

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Clear example of player entitlement that you just pointed out. I can understand hoping a piece of content you liked returned but claiming they "deliberately denied" it is beyond off.
Yoshi P many times told folks to temper their expectations quite a few times with EW (for better or worse) but he's been pretty honest and consistent from word of mouth to game output.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Not including content that they never said was coming is not deliberately denying anything. In Stormblood, I could have said that they deliberately denied me a relic by tying it to exploratory content because I prefer the ARR and HW style. But they never promised me that style of relic quest so my claiming that they denied me anything is wrong. They simply went another way with that content in the next expansion. And I gave them my feedback by not participating in it.

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Why you are quoting part of a post of mine and responding to it as if I was saying what you're implying as opposed to my post being made to counter the false narrative that players asking for more content are just going through it 'too quickly' when there's barely anything with longevity when it comes to Endwalker's content offerings?

This was the post and premise I was responding to:

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It's not SE's fault players are incapable of pacing themselves and each try to consume content faster than a child's birthday party at an all-you-can-eat-resturant. Stop and smell the rolanberries once in a while and maybe players won't run out of things to do in the game...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why you are quoting part of a post of mine and responding to it as if I was saying what you're implying as opposed to my post being made to counter the false narrative that players asking for more content are just going through it 'too quickly' when there's barely anything with longevity when it comes to Endwalker's content offerings?

This was the post and premise I was responding to:

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Apparently if they make content with longevity "young" players will get bored. Meanwhile me playing FFXI levelling multiple jobs to 99 and pursuing relic equipment there, sinking 100s of hours into multiple playthroughs of games that are actually fun...it's crazy how far away this game has gone from being the MMORPG it used to be.

If anything it's players who have admitted to being significantly older than I am who have come to the game recently that keep trying to tell me everything is ok and that I should take a break. When the game's biggest long term fans like myself and people like Zepla both take breaks no matter how long they are and still can't find anything worthwhile to do, there is a problem.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Apparently if they make content with longevity "young" players will get bored. Meanwhile me playing FFXI levelling multiple jobs to 99 and pursuing relic equipment there, sinking 100s of hours into multiple playthroughs of games that are actually fun...it's crazy how far away this game has gone from being the MMORPG it used to be.

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I can't help but feel you've said this 100s of times at this point...yet still pay for this game. At that point the question arises, is SE just wrong for the direction of the game or is it also partially the players fault for continuing to fund what they don't like telling SE what to push forward on? Often players dissolve themselves of any responsibility for the direction a game takes and its an important thing to realize.
XIV is changing with the times. Just how it is. The hardcore MMO isn't really desirable in today age

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Why you are quoting part of a post of mine and responding to it as if I was saying what you're implying as opposed to my post being made to counter the false narrative that players asking for more content are just going through it 'too quickly' when there's barely anything with longevity when it comes to Endwalker's content offerings?

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You aren't just asking for more content. You're claiming the developers took something away they had said was coming. It's fine to be disappointed with the amount of content. But it's dishonest to say players were deliberately denied something just because it was included in a previous expansion.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I can't help but feel you've said this 100s of times at this point...yet still pay for this game. At that point the question arises, is SE just wrong for the direction of the game or is it also partially the players fault for continuing to fund what they don't like telling SE what to push forward on? Often players dissolve themselves of any responsibility for the direction a game takes and its an important thing to realize.
XIV is changing with the times. Just how it is. The hardcore MMO isn't really desirable in today age

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I'm only choosing to respond to this post because I can't readily find Theodric's post where he talks about funding/paying vs not paying for the game but I quite literally already spend a significant amount of money monthly on Crysta most of which funds my activities in FFXI. SE already got my money via that. Diverting some of it into FFXIV to fund occasional subscriptions feels like it's inconsequential because I already gave SE money anyway.

And no, I don't have any responsibility for FFXIV being in this state when I've spent the past 2 years trying to give feedback to steer things away from what Endwalker eventually became. I spoke out at each wrong turn and all I got in return was content creators mocking my threads only for them to finally now realize how bad the situation is now. I'm guiltless.

Would only need to apologize if they put out a roadmap and never delivered on it.

Don’t see that at all so, no.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I'm only choosing to respond to this post because I can't readily find Theodric's post where he talks about funding/paying vs not paying for the game but I quite literally already spend a significant amount of money monthly on Crysta most of which funds my activities in FFXI. SE already got my money via that. Diverting some of it into FFXIV to fund occasional subscriptions feels like it's inconsequential because I already gave SE money anyway.

And no, I don't have any responsibility for FFXIV being in this state when I've spent the past 2 years trying to give feedback to steer things away from what Endwalker eventually became. I spoke out at each wrong turn and all I got in return was content creators mocking my threads only for them to finally now realize how bad the situation is now. I'm guiltless.

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Deny responsibility all you want. A company has little reason to change what they do when customers keep paying. You'd think you'd know this considering what killed 1.0...you know...a lack of paying players ALONGSIDE those folks giving feedback. Every single one of us is responsible if we are paying every month, feedback or not.

Also side note let's not pretend every thread of yours held merit. That is far from the truth. And just saying, going "I was right all along, I'm guiltless" while still also paying for the game to this day doesn't make you look wise...

Real question, did something happen over the last couple days that I missed? Or are people still just (rightfully) upset about this expansion being lackluster?

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Real question, did something happen over the last couple days that I missed? Or are people still just (rightfully) upset about this expansion being lackluster?

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Neither, it’s just trolls flooding to forums to make the issue seem worse than it actually is. Not that there’s no discussion to be had around the issue of lacklustre expansion, future content design etc, but a lot of these ‘doom and gloom’ threads are just created to be incendiary and not to actually discuss something

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You aren't just asking for more content. You're claiming the developers took something away they had said was coming. It's fine to be disappointed with the amount of content. But it's dishonest to say players were deliberately denied something just because it was included in a previous expansion.

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I think you are moving the goalposts and taking my post out of context. Once again, I was responding to this comment:

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It's not SE's fault players are incapable of pacing themselves and each try to consume content faster than a child's birthday party at an all-you-can-eat-resturant. Stop and smell the rolanberries once in a while and maybe players won't run out of things to do in the game...

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My post was highlighting that the concerns are being raised precisely because of the lack of content with staying power. The development team deliberately chose to cut out content with staying power and provided no equivalent to make up for that, so to try and present concerns about there being very little to do in the game as a player caught up on the latest batch of MSQ's strikes me as rather disingenuous.

Nowhere did I claim that they promised an equivalent of Bozja, Eureka or Ishgard Reconstruction (though there's interview comments where Yoshi-P dangles the potential of Garlemald reconstruction which ended up going nowhere...but I digress).

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think you are moving the goalposts and taking my post out of context. Once again, I was responding to this comment:



My post was highlighting that the concerns are being raised precisely because of the lack of content with staying power. The development team deliberately chose to cut out content with staying power and provided no equivalent to make up for that, so to try and present concerns about there being very little to do in the game as a player caught up on the latest batch of MSQ's strikes me as rather disingenuous.

Nowhere did I claim that they promised an equivalent of Bozja, Eureka or Ishgard Reconstruction (though there's interview comments where Yoshi-P dangles the potential of Garlemald reconstruction which ended up going nowhere...but I digress).

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Who needs a reconstruction collaborative effort with other players when we can have even more "slow living" content?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Who needs a reconstruction collaborative effort with other players when we can have even more "slow living" content?

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Thing is if you didn't like DoH/,DoL or like Eureka style content both SB and ShB were very boring expansions post content wise no different than folks claim EW is now. If you don't care for Variant/EO/Island Sanctuary you're in the same boat. This isn't an EW centric issue like many claim it is

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Real question, did something happen over the last couple days that I missed? Or are people still just (rightfully) upset about this expansion being lackluster?

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It's just the same people coming here whining every day about the same issues.

Forum sliding and sock puppets baybee!!!

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Real question, did something happen over the last couple days that I missed? Or are people still just (rightfully) upset about this expansion being lackluster?

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I think it's because of Zepla's (and other content creators) video and all the commotion around it. Or maybe both reasons.

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Originally Posted by MuraBoy

I think it's because of Zepla's (and other content creators) video and all the commotion around it. Or maybe both reasons.

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Same as usual then. For the record, I agree with Zepla and similar, expansion sucks.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Real question, did something happen over the last couple days that I missed? Or are people still just (rightfully) upset about this expansion being lackluster?

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It's due to Yoshi-P's recent interviews, which can be found here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amer-Interview

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rviews-pre-6.5

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's due to Yoshi-P's recent interviews, which can be found here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amer-Interview

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rviews-pre-6.5

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Yeah that’s the thing, a lot of us were hoping there would be some sign of changes in Dawntrail and these recent interviews have totally destroyed any semblance of hope we’ve been holding onto. I think I’m still really trying to process how out of touch this is all becoming, it’s eerily similar to what happened in FFXI during Abyssea/SoA with completely making relics irrelevant with the delve drops being equal to or in most cases better.

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Originally Posted by Blossoming

Yeah that’s the thing, a lot of us were hoping there would be some sign of changes in Dawntrail and these recent interviews have totally destroyed any semblance of hope we’ve been holding onto. I think I’m still really trying to process how out of touch this is all becoming, it’s eerily similar to what happened in FFXI during Abyssea/SoA with completely making relics irrelevant with the delve drops being equal to or in most cases better.

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At this point, the only real "hope" is the next two fanfests actually offering some degree of substance. I'm curious if Exploratory content will actually be confirmed because if it's still "we're looking into it." Well, we can probably rule that out to 8.0.

Otherwise, yeah. None of these interviewers were exactly inspiring any confidence in the direction XIV is going.

Idk from reading it all there's some interesting choices going forward. I can't call it all 100% good but it des make it clear they have in fact heard feedback (contrary to what some here will claim) and that's being taken into consideration such as alliance rewards for time for example. I'm not seeing all the doom and gloom from anything that's been said. I do think the dude is trying his best to valance the game and keep everyone happy for the most part. He's succeeded in some ways and failed in others. If anything it's nice to see the reasoning for the direction. DT will be interesting to see with what they've learned so far

Should the forums appologise to the devs

Please try to leave constructive replies instead of just saying anything to be heard
I've been toying with this question in my mind basically since around 6.0 when it became obvious this forum was'nt going to deliver any real of meaningful feedback.. seeing the clear nature of the doomposts and the exploitation in the forum's current doompost output vs what they develop for, anbd ofcourse that 7.0 will be a min of 6posts between minutes of basically... nothing...

should the comunity appologise for the state of the forums?

and if not... what level of accountability SHOULD they hold us to? if any..

(ofcourse this is just a question i am not demanding this or that people do this so please read it properly before you start attacking me)

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Should the forums appologise to the devs

Please try to leave constructive replies instead of just saying anything to be heard
I've been toying with this question in my mind basically since around 6.0 when it became obvious this forum was'nt going to deliver any real of meaningful feedback.. seeing the clear nature of the doomposts and the exploitation in the forum's current doompost output vs what they develop for, anbd ofcourse that 7.0 will be a min of 6posts between minutes of basically... nothing...

should the comunity appologise for the state of the forums?

and if not... what level of accountability SHOULD they hold us to? if any..

(ofcourse this is just a question i am not demanding this or that people do this so please read it properly before you start attacking me)

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No, I don't believe so because:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's the official site so it's entirely under their control so I think any problems are at least in part due to their own making. To say nothing of the fact that many of us have frequently requested community representatives to come here to help engage with the community and clean things up somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

My post was highlighting that the concerns are being raised precisely because of the lack of content with staying power. The development team deliberately chose to cut out content with staying power and provided no equivalent to make up for that, so to try and present concerns about there being very little to do in the game as a player caught up on the latest batch of MSQ's strikes me as rather disingenuous.

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How do you know they didn't expect that Variant/Criterion and Deep Dungeon and Island Sanctuary would provide that staying power? That's my problem with the way you're putting this. You're putting intent on the developers when you have no proof of what their intent or thinking was. The choice they made was not having an exploratory zone. That doesn't immediately mean they weren't trying to give players something that would last.